• Flight tickets: arrival+return+home and back to spore at mid point of study. Total 4 flights. $500x4=$2000
• Lodging: $500 per month X 48 months (over 4 yrs study period)= $24000
• Allowance: $500 per month X 48 months (over 4 yrs study period)= $24000
• Schooling cost: 1 % of the cohort are scholars. Say secondary/JC average class size is 30. 1% of 30 students=0.3. On average there is 1 scholar in every 3 classes. MOE can use existing teaching infrastructure to house the scholars. No additional teaching spending needed on scholars. Schooling cost will be $0.
• Settle in allowance. Not sure what it entailed. Put it at $1000

Total cost to spore per pre tertiary scholar : $2000+ $24000+$24000+$1000=$51000, over 4 yrs.

These few days the buzz is on China new AI model Deepseek. It is said to be as good as US’ ChatGPT and cost $6 million to develop vs ChatGPT’s billion of dollar. And China pull it off under chip/technology sanctions. Many US tech companies’ share prices taken some beatings because of Deepseek.

During their 4 years studying in Singapore, friendships will be formed between our children and these PRC scholars. I don’t think our children have the opportunity to befriend the scholars’ parent. And PRC scholars are potential next generation leaders of companies. Even if these scholars do not work in Singapore after they graduated, our children ties with them across the world are valuable networks. Maybe their distributions around the world are better for Singapore as long as our networks with them are strong.

How many postings of using Spore only as a stepping board are there on XHS?

Anyway, SM1 scholarship replacement, the Business China’s Spore education scholarship, has a footnote on scholars shall attend Business China’s events. That could be a way of getting some commitments from the scholars

https://www.reddit.com/r/SGExams/s/T51JMxypgx

The lady being interviewed was an invited guest who can’t say much negative stuff otherwise.

The example I shared earlier was posted in June 2024 on XHS by a SM1 scholar.

One can’t compare the thinking of PRC scholars 20yrs ago vs those today…

Reason why I shared that 1 video, is to offer a positive view, to offset the negative social media example that you shared. So it’s may not be true it’s all bad. 2nd reason I shared that video is to show using Spore as stepping board to overseas universities may not mean we are at the losing end of the deal. Most of them still come back to settle in Spore. The video may not be conclusive. But it shows the possibilities, just like there will always be possibilities that scholars do not pay back to Spore. Now the question is which groups is prevalence? No official stats, else we will not be discussing it here. A few bad investments plus tens of good investments is still a success to us.

I presumed you are saying AEIS students are good enough to serve our purpose and we do not have to offer scholarships now.

Scholars are like out of few thousand applicants, pick the top student. AEIS is like out of few thousands applicants, pick 4 at random. The quality will be different. That is likely the reason why we are still keeping the scholarship option.

I think the lady in the video meant she was the 1st batch SM1 scholar for NUSH. Other schools’ SM1 scholars could be from earlier years.

If half of them chose to continue their studies in Singapore Unis and the other half who chose to go overseas uni, upon graduation, most of them still returned to Singapore while those who chose to go back China, joined companies with links to Singapore, that would sound like 99% of her batch still contributed back to SG?

Don’t think govt ever release statistics on how many PRCs non-bonded scholars who left SG for Ivy League, subsequently return to SG to serve Singapore. Most people I asked around, think it’s impossible for the non-bonded PRCs to want to return to serve us. The best if govt is willing to show us the statistics from 20yrs and do not have this “carry-on” syndrome without a thorough review of the numbers.

If the event, if they chose not to come back, it’s their choice, since their scholarship is non bonded. But please behave decently, having benefited from our generosity, please stop making unnecessary social media posts to make us look like fools being taken advantage of.

SM1 scheme started in 1991 with 19 of them. AEIS enrolment from China then was probably very low as well. XHS did not exist then.

I think the assimilation, absorption, acculturation and integration prospects were far stronger then.

Fast forward, we are in 2025. AEIS has presumably increased. Chinese schools and universities have improved by leaps and bounds. China has recorded amazing growth in the past 35 years. We don’t have the exact numbers, but we do know that the SM1 stream probably recruits more than 300 kids a year at one stage (there is also an SM2 stream that was added).

It’s a question of whether the policy is still relevant and if so, whether it needs to be tweaked (whether in shape, form or numbers).

That said, one of kid’s school did not have SM1 scholars - only had ASEAN scholars, whereas another of my kid’s school had both ASEAN and SM1 scholars. There are AEIS kids in many schools now.

https://youtu.be/eSuNBsyfGog?si=rDHP3dOC57Gi96Y5

The elephant in the room was talk about: the question whether is it worth giving away scholarships to PRC students, knowing they may not stay on in Singapore to contribute. The lady replied, there were 19 scholars in her batch. After JC, half of them continue their university studies in Singapore. The other half studied in US, Europe and Canada . She chose to study in Switzerland. After they graduated, most of them came back to Singapore to work. She was one of them and she has her own family in Singapore now. Those that did not return to Singapore to work, went back to China but joined companies with links to Singapore. Towards the end of the interview, they praise the wisdom of Singapore in attracting talents by giving out these scholarships.

Apparently SM1 scholarship programme was halted during COVID-19. Now it has been reintroduced as Business China’s Spore Education Scholarship.

@lee_yl

Just thinking aloud - over the years the reputation of Singapore’s schools has grown. We already have a significant pool applying via the AEIS. Is there still a need to offer that many scholarships?

Honestly I don’t think there is as much issue with AEIS kids as they do pay fees at whatever rate set by MOE - and it gets pretty hefty at the JC stage.

You are right to say that since there is a significant pool applying under AEIS, then there is no real need to give out so many free scholarships. I can understand the need to continue to attract foreign students as we cannot cut ourselves totally off from them, so I am ok with the idea of offering scholarships to foreign students BUT we need to find out why some Singaporeans are unhappy and i think our govt is deaf to all the feedback.

Bond free is too generous. FOC air-tickets, accommodation, monthly allowance, paid school fees etc. Singapore citizens break bond, very likely need to pay back substantial liquidated damages if they were to enjoy a similar package using Ah gong’s money.

Bond free scholarships, if the PRCs are grateful to us and willing to serve Singapore for a few years after graduation, then I guess Singaporeans will still be fine with such an arrangement. THE WORST thing is after these PRCs enjoy all the benefits, they post on Rednote (XHS):

“申请牛剑的小伙伴都在把新加坡当跳板”

This above is an extract from Rednote(XHS) of a former SM1 scholar. You think how many millions of people have read that? You think Singaporeans like to feel like fools, pay for their studies, offer them a pathway to the best schools in the world and still get mocked for.

I recall some years back, a NTU PRC scholar posted some nasty comments about Singapore and Singaporeans. It caused an uproar. NTU expelled him after an investigation. This incident caused a lot Singaporeans to be unhappy.

1. those awarded scholarships (around 1%. See link A). From unofficial source/scholars’ sharing, they don’t get to choose the secondary school. And during JAE, they need to meet higher standard than Singaporean for JC enrolments. See links B. Just like our local universities setting the bar higher for international students.

2. those enrolled through AEIS (around 4%), they compete with Singaporean on equal ground, but they need to pay very much higher school fees.

Link A:
https://www.channelnewsasia.com/cna-insider/they-left-their-home-comforts-teens-study-singapore-scholarship-wasnt-only-reason-2142421

Links B
https://www.reddit.com/r/SGExams/comments/17z3w5v/do_asean_scholars_get_randomly_assigned_to_high/

http://aseanscholarstory.blogspot.com/p/schooling-in-singapore.html?m=1

No Singaporean students are ever displaced because of international students. Local universities set the entry standards. After all Singaporeans students who have meet the standard have been admitted, local universities will then raise the bar, to admit international students.

https://youtu.be/IKe5tqnUlio?si=TgplbFVipZNi5bNh

Just thinking aloud - over the years the reputation of Singapore’s schools has grown. We already have a significant pool applying via the AEIS. Is there still a need to offer that many scholarships?

Honestly I don’t think there is as much issue with AEIS kids as they do pay fees at whatever rate set by MOE - and it gets pretty hefty at the JC stage.

Financial bonds are not enforceable outside Singapore’s legal jurisdiction. Probably not possible to recover liquidated damages from foreigners….

@bbbay A good number of PSC scholars are already opting to study in local universities.

I think I am quite undecided on this issue. To stop this flow completely, I would sort of hesitate also, because I do believe all kids benefit from some diversity of backgrounds and experiences. Yet I also see how difficult it is for our local students to swallow, seeing foreign student classmates having school fees fully covered, plus a living allowance.

Not suggesting to stop foreign students from coming in on scholarship but think we should work out and secure some other forms of commitments from them as return for our investments on them.

At least 3yrs bond instead of bond free. The foreign students can still go ahead to Ivy Leagues schools and not return if they have a change of heart. Their PRC parents will have pay a penalty for their kids breaking the bond lor.

I know there were ASEAN scholars since 40 years ago, but how many were there? And what was their percentage as compared to the local student population? Versus how many ASEAN + PRC scholars are there today?? And what was their percentage as compared to the local student population?

One of the goal of Business China is to nurture Spore/China ready youth.

From their website Business China funding are from Corporate membership fees and public donations.

https://businesschina.org.sg/en-us/p/singaporeeducationscholarship

a footnote on the scholarship page states recipients need to attend events organised by Business China. Could be start of Spore’s ways of asking for commitments from these scholars.

@doodbug

Few years back in one of my child’s secondary school classmate was a Malaysia scholar. His academic results in the secondary school were consistently good, ahead of many local students and at least clinched top in Math. My child told me this scholar times were spent either in school and during weekend, studying in public library. He roomed with another scholar and was seldom home in his room - most of the time studying somewhere outside. The recently crowned Starsearch winners, she has been in Singapore alone since 13yo, to study, not as a scholar though. She talked about her life before, has been school to home to school.

I believe most of foreigners scholars are alone here and lead similar monotonous studying life. To deal with different cultures, social norm and language of teaching. I think it is quite like our children going to a foreign country studying university, except they are sent there as a much younger 15yo. I believe it is not easy for most of these foreigners students and their parents back home, away from each other and being in a foreign country for the first time at such young age. If I am to choose for my 15yo child, between being a singaporean student, paying a little school fees for world class education just around the corners, serve NS for boys, may lose out in school enrolment to foreigners sometimes, but we get to stay together. or, sending my child alone for free world class study (an example if conditions are swop) to 重庆 or KL at 15yo and not together for 2 years straight every time, I would prefer the formal. I think we should cut these foreigner scholars some slack and not think they are served all the good times studying in Singapore. They will have their own shares of anxieties too. Social media sometimes paint one sided picture.

Some foreigners commented Singapore immigration criteria is a 玄学. They are saying Singapore immigration criteria is hard to fathom. The authorities will not tell you exactly what are all the criteria to meet before granting PR or citizenship. I think it is a good measure. It is akin to saying: I will check on you, but I will not tell you what exactly I will check on and when I will check. If the authority takes their time, which they do, high probability only the naturally fits will be granted residential status. That should minimise negative influences on society.

Firstly, nobody denies the fact that the foreign students on scholarship here are hardworking. We are not doubting their abilities, we are talking about S’pore scholarship policies.

The issue at stake is whether our policies to lure these foreign students are overly generous. The scholarships offered are full of goodies, bond free but little or no obligation. Zeit already highlighted in her post how these PRCians ride on the good name of Singapore to springboard to Ivy League schools in America. Bond free also means most will not return upon graduation (from MIT or other Ivy League schools) because there’s no obligation to.

BTW, no S’porean parent will be interested to send their kids to 重庆 or KL schools lah. On the other hand, If our Ah Gong offers bond free scholarships to Eton or Harrow, I think parents here will consider seriously.

Few years back in one of my child’s secondary school classmate was a Malaysia scholar. His academic results in the secondary school were consistently good, ahead of many local students and at least clinched top in Math. My child told me this scholar times were spent either in school and during weekend, studying in public library. He roomed with another scholar and was seldom home in his room - most of the time studying somewhere outside. The recently crowned Starsearch winners, she has been in Singapore alone since 13yo, to study, not as a scholar though. She talked about her life before, has been school to home to school.

I believe most of foreigners scholars are alone here and lead similar monotonous studying life. To deal with different cultures, social norm and language of teaching. I think it is quite like our children going to a foreign country studying university, except they are sent there as a much younger 15yo. I believe it is not easy for most of these foreigners students and their parents back home, away from each other and being in a foreign country for the first time at such young age. If I am to choose for my 15yo child, between being a singaporean student, paying a little school fees for world class education just around the corners, serve NS for boys, may lose out in school enrolment to foreigners sometimes, but we get to stay together. or, sending my child alone for free world class study (an example if conditions are swop) to 重庆 or KL at 15yo and not together for 2 years straight every time, I would prefer the formal. I think we should cut these foreigner scholars some slack and not think they are served all the good times studying in Singapore. They will have their own shares of anxieties too. Social media sometimes paint one sided picture.

Some foreigners commented Singapore immigration criteria is a 玄学. They are saying Singapore immigration criteria is hard to fathom. The authorities will not tell you exactly what are all the criteria to meet before granting PR or citizenship. I think it is a good measure. It is akin to saying: I will check on you, but I will not tell you what exactly I will check on and when I will check. If the authority takes their time, which they do, high probability only the naturally fits will be granted residential status. That should minimise negative influences on society.

On these scholarships to foreigners to study in Sec Schools and JCs, it has occurred prevalently since our time though it was the ASEAN scholarships then. The ASEAN scholarships still exist today. Yes you will hear occasional complaints of comparisons especially from NS boys when they see their ASEAN scholar friends go off to university whereas they are stuck serving out NS. But the numbers were small, and the ASEAN scholars generally integrated quite well. A significant number ended up working in SG or marrying Singaporeans and then becoming SCs. My era did not have scholars from China, but there were HK scholars (pre 1997 era I guess and SG was trying to attract them?) There were also scholars from India though the numbers were small.

Fast forward to my kids’ generation, ASEAN scholarships still exist, and now there is a huge group of scholars from China.

I think I am quite undecided on this issue. To stop this flow completely, I would sort of hesitate also, because I do believe all kids benefit from some diversity of backgrounds and experiences. Yet I also see how difficult it is for our local students to swallow, seeing foreign student classmates having school fees fully covered, plus a living allowance.

@lee_yl said in PM Lawrence Wong's NDR - Education Portions:

@bbbay
We see a group of new migrants celebrating National Day on 1 Oct (and not 9 Aug), if you follow Rednote/XHS. We see another another group forming enclaves in the areas near Fort and Meyer Roads, keeping themselves aloof as many are from higher castes, and the examples go on and on.

If they are not citizen i wouldn’t be too worry. They have no influence over Spore policies. If they are citizens they are too small minority to influence policies. There are 20k+ new citizen yearly. around 60% are from Asean. 30% from rest of Asia. A few thousands new citizen from any countries are still too small a number to influence policies.

I beg to differ on this. Singapore policies are determined or influenced by a variety of factors, including the ballot box. Minorities are influential if (1) they are able to engage in collective action, i.e. they are well coordinated; and (2) if they are loud. Not all minority groups have an outsized influence, some do, some don’t.

On the potential influence of new citizens, they could have significant influence even though at first glance the numbers suggest otherwise. Even at the ballot box, it’s widely acknowledged that about one third of voters will vote for the incumbent, regardless, and likewise, about 20-30% will vote against the incumbent, regardless. The battleground at the ballot box is really for the hearts and minds of the about 30-40% of middle ground voters who could be swayed or persuaded either way. Every party is trying their best to increase the base of their ‘hardcore’ voters as they know that the middle ground voters - it could go either way.

Primary :
Sporean: free
PR: $305
Asean: $570
International: $985

Secondary
Sporean: $5
PR: $620
Asean: $1030
International: $2050

JC
Sporean: $6
PR: $700
Asean: $1230
International: $2400

These info can be found on MOE site

As for foreigners taking up places in our local universities and denying places of Singaporean. And some Singaporean miss the cut off point narrowly. We could stop foreigners from coming into our local universities. But we should also be prepared other countries doing the same, stopping us from going to their universities. All our president/PSC scholars will then be the ones joining competitions for places in local universities. some of our students will be losing out again. Foreigners awarded local universities scholarships have to work 3 years in return. The group that are awarded scholarships to study in secondary/JC are not bonded. They are too young for us to put to them any bonding decision at their age. I think we should work out and secure some other forms of commitments from them as return for our investments.

@bbbay
We see a group of new migrants celebrating National Day on 1 Oct (and not 9 Aug), if you follow Rednote/XHS. We see another another group forming enclaves in the areas near Fort and Meyer Roads, keeping themselves aloof as many are from higher castes, and the examples go on and on.

If they are not citizen i wouldn’t be too worry. They have no influence over Spore policies. If they are citizens they are too small minority to influence policies. There are 20k+ new citizen yearly. around 60% are from Asean. 30% from rest of Asia. A few thousands new citizen from any countries are still too small a number to influence policies.

I think even among us local born, we do have different lifestyles from each other. There are times we do our stuffs, celebrate our own festivals and times we interact with others in common spaces.

As of Dec 2023, there were at least 2.5 million foreigner-born S’poreans which is 43.1% of the resident population. I am afraid we may have already gone past the critical mass for assimilation to happen organically.

Could it be 43.1% foreign born population (instead of citizen) instead ? And they consist mainly non residential population (permit holders)? We do have around 1.7 million of them. And around half a million PR. Citizens around 3.5 million

I think the elephant in the room is PRs. Are PRs under any quota? I seem to think they enjoy the best of both worlds. Enjoy subsidised education here then can just go off to overseas education or enjoy university bond free scholarships locally. First gen PR doesn’t need to serve NS correct?

Not enough questioning by the opposition MPs why Singapore policies on foreign talents appeared to be so lopsided.

They get to enjoy the benefits of quality of education and medical care as quasi-Singaporeans yet they can just say goodbye when they have consumed all the benefits.

Besides education, housing is probably another issue that needs to be tighten for PRs.

As of Dec 2023, there were at least 2.5 million foreigner-born S’poreans which is 43.1% of the resident population. I am afraid we may have already gone past the critical mass for assimilation to happen organically.