manorway\" post_id=\"2125942\" time=\"1703900364\" user_id=\"9303:

Even with Stellar, students still need to learn grammar rules if they want to excel in EL.

manorway\" post_id=\"2125942\" time=\"1703900364\" user_id=\"9303:

In my previous posts, I mentioned there are 3 parts to work on for compre. You need to figure out which part(s) is your boy struggling with. Strategies to tackle each part are different.

Even with Stellar, students still need to learn grammar rules if they want to excel in EL.

Visual text compre is not same as reading passage. Once you are familiar with visual text compre, it is easy to score.

00skyblue00\" post_id=\"2125917\" time=\"1703891199\" user_id=\"143605:

Yes, just hoping to up their skills and if sufficiently can up one grade.
In lower pri, this gap was not visible yet. They read but not avid readers like my girl and selective w the topics. They do audio books quite a bit.
For the boy in sec, he did ok (A) in humanities, Geo, Hist. But not in sec Eng compre. Scored better in E lit than Eng overall. Pulled down by compre. Managed to improve visual text compre, with my girl's weekly help. Same thing in upp pri, had low marks in Eng compre. Hence it is a mystery for us, Eng compre. Know another boy, my boy's senior also faced difficulties in Eng compre specifically.

I always thought compre is easier than compo... Apparently not so for some people.

Eng was auto for my girl learning, so never had to be involved. Hence seeking advice here on plausible methods and trying to understand why so. The second part is for my own interest.

zac's mum\" post_id=\"2125835\" time=\"1703820990\" user_id=\"53606:[quote=\"zac's mum\" post_id=2125835 time=1703820990 user_id=53606]
My DS this type of profile got AL2 for PSLE English.

Compre inferential qns I tried to drill him in the 3-step answer which is similar to science OEQ format. He hated it and refused to follow.

Now in Sec 1 he is happily using the same format to answer humanities qns, simply because there is more than 1 acceptable answer. Sometimes the kid is just stubborn not stupid :pokeeye:[/quote]

ChiefKiasu\" post_id=\"2125872\" time=\"1703831144\" user_id=\"3:

Oh, did I? Well, I wrote it in its infancy, when only some schools were in the program, but didn't really follow up. It's been 10(?) years. And STELLAR has been fully implemented by now. I'm just curious about how most parents would think about the program.

manorway\" post_id=\"2125883\" time=\"1703835762\" user_id=\"9303:

I don't think the percentage will always correspond because LC, oral, compre and compo all test different skills. Your kids must have stronger oral and LC skills than reading comprehension skill. I am guessing they are not avid readers or if they do like to read, they read to understand the GIST of the plot but may not fully grasp the details.

It depends what you mean by not aiming very high. AL3 and AL4? If so, your P6 kid can afford to lose 40 marks out of 200... then you know compre is not that important anymore.. can spend time elsewhere IF you just want to focus on result. But IMHO, compre skill is still important to learn now so Sec sch learning is not painful.

If you want AL1 and AL2, then need to do more especially for P5 and P6. I rarely did any work with my kids on English in upper Pri and they all scored AL1 or the A* at PSLE because they had very strong foundation in earlier years. It really saved us a lot of $, pain and time, so if yours are still young, my advice is really boost the EL early. It is not too late if your kids are P5 and P6. You just need to know where to spend your effort on.

00skyblue00\" post_id=\"2125833\" time=\"1703819910\" user_id=\"143605:

Spot on the blue parts. Ard 28/40 which is acceptable to us. But as you can see compre marks do not match compo. In percentage. We are realistic so not aiming very high. It seems like they can understand but answer not to the point. Yes, definitely they are not careful and not sensitive to text.

They do well in listening and oral btw. Can articulate very well. The type can make psle or sch exam examiner laughed out loud.

00skyblue00\" post_id=\"2125831\" time=\"1703819235\" user_id=\"143605:

Yes. This type of kids cannot adjust to rules well. They operate by familiarity in their daily encounter.
So I guess for compre, have to practise more and to go through line by line?
Ps: they can't memorise well too. So really need to explain and explain. But hor, the same mistakes may still repeat and repeat.

Garfield2882\" post_id=\"2125750\" time=\"1703749170\" user_id=\"188233:

Chief, I thought you are supporter. You wrote a long article on STELLAR years back. I read your post to understand STELLAR.

00skyblue00\" post_id=\"2125833\" time=\"1703819910\" user_id=\"143605:

Spot on the blue parts. Ard 28/40 which is acceptable to us. But as you can see compre marks do not match compo. In percentage. We are realistic so not aiming very high. It seems like they can understand but answer not to the point. Yes, definitely they are not careful and not sensitive to text.

They do well in listening and oral btw. Can articulate very well. The type can make psle or sch exam examiner laughed out loud.

manorway\" post_id=\"2125778\" time=\"1703771063\" user_id=\"9303:

It depends what you meant by reasonably alright in compo. 15/20 for P3 and P4 and 30/40 for P5 and P6?
Some kids can do well in Grammar MCQ in paper 2 but make tons of grammatical errors in compo writing. If MCQ are well-set and there are lots of questions to test many grammar rules, then you know the kids have a good grasp of grammar. They made mistakes in compo because they were too preoccupied with telling the story and didn't have time to check. This is easy to correct.

In SG at least, many kids can score about 15/20 in compo because they have learnt to memorise to a certain extent, not because their EL standards are high because if one's EL is good, compre should be easier than writing. SG kids often memorise the opening and conclusion, write the different parts of story in a specific way, so everyone's story is more or less the same. Nothing exciting, as the goal is to keep it SAFE. However, they will only score an average score too. Hard to exceed the 15/20 or 32/40 range.

Upper Pri comprehension tests (1) students' ability to read and understand the deeper meanings of the passage. They need to INFER. After kid understands the passage, he must also (2) understand WHAT the questions ask and
be able to (3) express his understanding in a way that the teacher can understand. Need to paraphrase and this is where some will go wrong too.

Reading between the lines does NOT necessarily improve with age but it gets better with practices, good feedback and reflection of OWN mistakes. My kids could score 19/20 or full marks for Upper Pri Compre unless they were careless. On hindsight, it was because their tutor laid a solid foundation for the 3 steps mentioned above and gave excellent feedback to explain and taught them to reflect, so my kids could continue to apply even after they were on their own.

BTW, marks are NOT deducted for grammatical mistakes in comprehension answers.

slmkhoo\" post_id=\"2125768\" time=\"1703759222\" user_id=\"28674:

Each type of exercise tests different skills.
Composition writing asks for creativity, while comprehension tests, well comprehension! Some kids don't/can't read carefully, and may not be able to make sense of the passage. And they may not answer to the point. Composition gives a bit more freedom.

zac's mum\" post_id=\"2125737\" time=\"1703738840\" user_id=\"53606:[quote=\"zac's mum\" post_id=2125737 time=1703738840 user_id=53606]
Excited for you, @sky minecrafter!

Will pm u a useful link for G3 materials.[/quote]

00skyblue00\" post_id=\"2125751\" time=\"1703750277\" user_id=\"143605:

Thanks for sharing. Will slowly digest and see how to convert into actions.

For kids (pri and sec) who can do reasonably alright in composition writing (some may still have plenty of grammar mistakes) but do terribly in comprehension, any views why? Referring to same type of kids as described in earlier post. Predominantly they are typical boys, can max out points deducted for grammar or spelling mistakes but can write stories and narrative essays to get reasonable marks. But cannot do comprehension, mostly just passed or failed.

zac's mum\" post_id=\"2125737\" time=\"1703738840\" user_id=\"53606:[quote=\"zac's mum\" post_id=2125737 time=1703738840 user_id=53606]
Excited for you, @sky minecrafter!

Will pm u a useful link for G3 materials.[/quote]

00skyblue00\" post_id=\"2125751\" time=\"1703750277\" user_id=\"143605:

Thanks for sharing. Will slowly digest and see how to convert into actions.

For kids (pri and sec) who can do reasonably alright in composition writing (some may still have plenty of grammar mistakes) but do terribly in comprehension, any views why? Referring to same type of kids as described in earlier post. Predominantly they are typical boys, can max out points deducted for grammar or spelling mistakes but can write stories and narrative essays to get reasonable marks. But cannot do comprehension, mostly just passed or failed.

manorway\" post_id=\"2125742\" time=\"1703745762\" user_id=\"9303:

I love the Stellar approach vs using textbooks. Vocab is harder to learn than grammar. Grammar are just fixed rules that we can learn/drilled with a grammar book from Popular. The reason kids who speak well are terrible with grammar is simply because the learning is not mindful.

A lot of school worksheets and assessment book pages are poorly designed - they make it possible for kids to MINDLESSLY filling in answers. Eg. A question with (is/are) to circle. Many kids guess the answers without understanding subject-verb agreement. If answer is wrong, the other one is correct. Corrections may be done but it DOES NOT mean they understand the rule.

If parents are willing to revise with kids, START with school English worksheets for grammar. Go through your child's mistakes. Even if kids get them right, randomly select a few questions and get kids to explain WHY he chose that answer. Listening to the kids' explanation and you will know IF kids understand the grammar rule or not.

That said, NOT all parents know the grammar rules well to begin with. If parents don't know, how to teach them?
But we should be able to read a Grammar guidebook and learn the rules.

I think it is hard to set amount of time needed. For my own kids, I did not drill them on grammar rules at all.
But I made it a point to ALWAYS speak well, using grammatically correct sentences and wide range of vocab, so all my kids could speak really well since young.

They learnt the grammar rules in Pri school but I realised in lower Primary that my fluent speaking kids were guessing the answers to some grammar questions CORRECTLY based on what sounded right to them. Not because they understood the rules.

After I made them explain their reasons for choosing each answer, I realised their grasp of grammar rules were not strong enough. So I explained to them to close the gaps. I probably did that more during exam revision. Just once and they all could remember after that because they speak well to begin with.

Vocab may be introduced in school worksheets but it is not enough to depend on them and spelling lists to learn vocab. Non-readers will find it harder to acquire vast vocab unless they get to listen to/watch programmes that introduce good vocab.

ChiefKiasu\" post_id=\"2125724\" time=\"1703725133\" user_id=\"3:

:yikes: My goodness. No textbooks for English? I still remember using these \"My Pals...\" books for my kids in Primary school. Guess they have changed greatly after Stellar was fully implemented in schools. I wonder how effective it is.

00skyblue00\" post_id=\"2125731\" time=\"1703731304\" user_id=\"143605:

To counter the gaps, how much time do you suggest to spend on English per week beside sch assigned homework?

I came across kids who are terrible with learning grammar but very vocal, strong in spoken Eng with impressive vocabs and fluency and creative in use of language. They may not be able to assimilate rules and structures very well, hence cannot remember even after many repetitions. The benefit of stella is that it is application based. So learning Lang is embedded in its use of stories and interests.
Correct me if I am wrong as I only glanced through some sheets in the past.

zac's mum\" post_id=\"2125725\" time=\"1703725685\" user_id=\"53606:[quote=\"zac's mum\" post_id=2125725 time=1703725685 user_id=53606]
It is effective if the child picks up languages by absorption, reads voraciously and the family speaks the language fluently at home. School lessons will be fun because no drilling involved...[/quote]

manorway\" post_id=\"2125716\" time=\"1703705136\" user_id=\"9303:

There are no textbooks for English.

In every Stellar unit, there are pages on Vocabulary introducing new words and phrases and pages introducing Grammar step by step. The basics are taught in a structured manner, however the worksheets are not standardised across all schools. Many schools will also supplement with their own materials. Spelling lists are also not standardised.

If we leave learning/teaching entirely to school teachers and expect children to just learn what is taught in school, an attentive child who does his school work and homework will pass school exam easily and learn the basics required of the language. If the child is inquisitive, will seek clarifications when he does not understand, revises after school and reflect on his learning, he will do better. Better still, if he also likes to read and write after school time, he will do even better.

In reality, most kids are not like this (as described above), especially in lower Primary. Most do not remember everything they were taught and will not revise unless they have adults' nudging and supervision at first.

Grammar and Vocab may be taught but in a class of 30, not everyone will learn them as effectively. Most kids need revision to a certain extent to reinforce learning.