新加坡人满口错误, 何时会改善？快了! 大家快加油, 面对挑战!

Reply to 新加坡人满口错误, 何时会改善？快了! 大家快加油, 面对挑战! on Sat, 06 May 2017 05:57:13 GMT

pinkamoon — Sat, 06 May 2017 05:57:13 GMT

The posts are so hilarious. I love reading them. Perhaps the 妈咪pronunciation is to differentiate the mamasan? I think Singaporeans can call mamasan with the correct pronunciation. :rotflmao:

Reply to 新加坡人满口错误, 何时会改善？快了! 大家快加油, 面对挑战! on Wed, 03 May 2017 02:56:55 GMT

lnjason888 — Wed, 03 May 2017 02:56:55 GMT

为何瞪眼

Reply to 新加坡人满口错误, 何时会改善？快了! 大家快加油, 面对挑战! on Wed, 26 Apr 2017 04:24:29 GMT

mylulaoshi — Wed, 26 Apr 2017 04:24:29 GMT

jetsetter:
Local djs don't pronounce the zh/ch/sh and ng sometimes. Every morning, I've bear with all the mispronunciations by 1 female dj on Capitol 95.8.

现在的人连讲话都难。能当DJ的，已经很好了。我在公共场所多教孩子两句，说话大声清楚一点，旁人就瞪眼了。

Reply to 新加坡人满口错误, 何时会改善？快了! 大家快加油, 面对挑战! on Fri, 31 Mar 2017 09:54:57 GMT

jetsetter — Fri, 31 Mar 2017 09:54:57 GMT

mylulaoshi:
General99all:
Thanks pal.

\"做工, 作业 and 作文. Ok. Got it.

Sometimes for hanyu pinying, I is hard to know when there is a \"h\" and \"g\".
like ci or chi, zi or zhi, hard to remembers which sets of words with the \"h\" and which do not.
Same like zhan or zhang..etc. how to remember both sets of words.
Any tips...
Ears have to be exposed to accurate pronunciation via radio, news, China TV. Our local standard Chinese is adapted from Beijing. Local TV hosts some from Malaysia, Taiwan their pronunciation may be compromised at times. No hard and fuss rule. I myself have to research for several years to collate 'Disturbing Pinyin' which is commonly mis-pronounced just to deliver to my students in 1hr. Mediacorp artistes welcome to attend Lu Laoshi lessons to brush up your TV pronunciation~！

Local djs don't pronounce the zh/ch/sh and ng sometimes. Every morning, I've bear with all the mispronunciations by 1 female dj on Capitol 95.8.

Reply to 新加坡人满口错误, 何时会改善？快了! 大家快加油, 面对挑战! on Fri, 31 Mar 2017 06:46:13 GMT

mylulaoshi — Fri, 31 Mar 2017 06:46:13 GMT

General99all:
Yes. \"抄送\"， hear many people talking to their china supplier \"请放我进去”or \"放我在里面”。 I think \"请在来往的邮件中，抄送给我。\" is also correct.

:rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao:

Reply to 新加坡人满口错误, 何时会改善？快了! 大家快加油, 面对挑战! on Fri, 31 Mar 2017 06:43:03 GMT

mylulaoshi — Fri, 31 Mar 2017 06:43:03 GMT

General99all:
Thanks pal.

\"做工, 作业 and 作文. Ok. Got it.

Sometimes for hanyu pinying, I is hard to know when there is a \"h\" and \"g\".
like ci or chi, zi or zhi, hard to remembers which sets of words with the \"h\" and which do not.
Same like zhan or zhang..etc. how to remember both sets of words.
Any tips...

Ears have to be exposed to accurate pronunciation via radio, news, China TV. Our local standard Chinese is adapted from Beijing. Local TV hosts some from Malaysia, Taiwan their pronunciation may be compromised at times. No hard and fuss rule. I myself have to research for several years to collate 'Disturbing Pinyin' which is commonly mis-pronounced just to deliver to my students in 1hr. Mediacorp artistes welcome to attend Lu Laoshi lessons to brush up your TV pronunciation~！

Reply to 新加坡人满口错误, 何时会改善？快了! 大家快加油, 面对挑战! on Tue, 16 Aug 2011 01:38:46 GMT

General99all — Tue, 16 Aug 2011 01:38:46 GMT

Thanks pal.

"做工, 作业 and 作文. Ok. Got it.

Sometimes for hanyu pinying, I is hard to know when there is a "h" and "g".
like ci or chi, zi or zhi, hard to remembers which sets of words with the "h" and which do not.
Same like zhan or zhang…etc. how to remember both sets of words.
Any tips…

Reply to 新加坡人满口错误, 何时会改善？快了! 大家快加油, 面对挑战! on Tue, 16 Aug 2011 01:34:36 GMT

General99all — Tue, 16 Aug 2011 01:34:36 GMT

Wu MaMa is my ex-neighbour. She visited me and log in with my laptop and forgot to log out. That’s made my later post showed under her name. She the only friend who back me up while my other friends don’t.

In fact I was inspired by her. That was many years back when I first heard her child calling “妈咪”, instantly I said “Very accurate and sound very nice”. That’s also make me want to set my child’s path for learning the correct things right from the beginning. If I didn’t accept her views years back. My child today will not be also calling me with the correct pronunciation. That is when I appreciate her value and become the next person pursuing correct pronunciation.
The problem her child is facing today is what mine going to suffer in few years time if there isn’t enough educated parent who supported going back to the original correct pronunciation.
It has been years and when my new born arrived, the situation didn’t improve… Now is my turn to feel the frustration myself and experience it… this turned me to started this topic.

Give your child(6 to 10years old) a simple hanyu pinying test and understand the score.
爸爸，妈妈，哥哥，姐姐，弟弟，妹妹。If the child scored 100%, does the child ever wonder why must they prounciating them differently in practice? If the child scored poorly and not convinced that all these years they pronounced them wrongly… That is why I didn’t want to lay this trap and looked stupid.
Can’t educate children this way and on the other hand promoting those mistakes.
A Chinese teacher(China National)in my child’s childcare shared with me that she found some Singaporean Chinese Teacher uncertain about their pronunciation and some textbook with such mistakes are not been pointed out. If she says this to a wrong person, the parent could fight back turned unhappy. I would sized the opportunity to learn more so that someday if there is a miss-marking, I could tell. I hope this is inspiring enough to motivate more people and perhaps it would be better in 2 years time.

Same goes to promoting English and demoting Singlish. Singlish has lots of short cut which make kids missed many polite words. “Eat Faster!”… instead of “Please hurry up” for many years, many kids felt uneasy when trying to be polite. They are not used to start with “Could you… Do you… Will you help…”. I felt that developing the child personality starts from young(at home). Although at higher academic level, they could score well, they are just natural having difficulties in saying things politely.

Reply to 新加坡人满口错误, 何时会改善？快了! 大家快加油, 面对挑战! on Wed, 03 Aug 2011 17:01:37 GMT

Mdm Koh — Wed, 03 Aug 2011 17:01:37 GMT

General99all:
Last Thur, 9.58fm 4.15pm talked about building confident in children and reduce \"错败感”。 I personally felt that if the child has been speaking using correct grammar and phrases from young, this has helped the child to be more confident than some who don't.

Have anyone ever wonder... Every morning i wake my child and say \"...快上学了\",\"爸妈也来不急上班了\"。But each time, we bump into neighbours(with their kids) in the lift or void deck, you won't hear people using the phrases I did. I was wondering, where does the \"读书\" come from? If it was from English, people here don't \"say go to study\", they say \"go to School\" but the mandarin part \"学校\"has not been widely used. But the \"做工\" and the English version of \"going off to work\" matches. Why?
Yah, i am also puzzle with \"做工＂and \"工作\", why the 2 ＂zuo\" is of different character.

I think 读书 comes from the dialects. Hokkien: tak chayk; Teochew: tak zi.

For more info on the different uses of 做 vs 作, you can look at the character definitions online.

http://xh.5156edu.com/html3/3120.html

http://xh.5156edu.com/html3/2859.html

Reply to 新加坡人满口错误, 何时会改善？快了! 大家快加油, 面对挑战! on Wed, 03 Aug 2011 16:24:15 GMT

corneyAmber — Wed, 03 Aug 2011 16:24:15 GMT

General99all:
Last Thur, 9.58fm 4.15pm talked about building confident in children and reduce \"错败感”。 I personally felt that if the child has been speaking using correct grammar and phrases from young, this has helped the child to be more confident than some who don't.

Have anyone ever wonder... Every morning i wake my child and say \"...快上学了\",\"爸妈也来不急上班了\"。But each time, we bump into neighbours(with their kids) in the lift or void deck, you won't hear people using the phrases I did. I was wondering, where does the \"读书\" come from? If it was from English, people here don't \"say go to study\", they say \"go to School\" but the mandarin part \"学校\"has not been widely used. But the \"做工\" and the English version of \"going off to work\" matches. Why?
Yah, i am also puzzle with \"做工＂and \"工作\", why the 2 ＂zuo\" is of different character.

\"做工＂ is for verb and \"工作\" is for noun...eg. 作业 not 做业, 作文 not 做文

Reply to 新加坡人满口错误, 何时会改善？快了! 大家快加油, 面对挑战! on Wed, 03 Aug 2011 10:00:18 GMT

empressplace — Wed, 03 Aug 2011 10:00:18 GMT

Wu MaMa:
Oh antebellum... I forgot to thank you for making those fair statement. There is high possibility to have lengthy criticize on me... could go really nasty and bad. I will not be angry, it is just a reflection of various type of mindset we have here to contribute to our society. .

The criticism was on General99all, not on Wu MaMa. So Wu MaMa= General99all?

Reply to 新加坡人满口错误, 何时会改善？快了! 大家快加油, 面对挑战! on Wed, 03 Aug 2011 09:58:39 GMT

empressplace — Wed, 03 Aug 2011 09:58:39 GMT

Wu MaMa:

Thanks Toddles and Wu MaMa,
\"因为希望能减少两个语言之间的混淆\" and \"我说有条件没环境不如说没条件\"。 You shared something helpful and true indeed. 好样的!

Wu MaMa - are you General99all? Why is Wu MaMa thanking Wu MaMa?!

Reply to 新加坡人满口错误, 何时会改善？快了! 大家快加油, 面对挑战! on Wed, 03 Aug 2011 07:57:23 GMT

Wu MaMa — Wed, 03 Aug 2011 07:57:23 GMT

Oh antebellum… I forgot to thank you for making those fair statement. There is high possibility to have lengthy criticize on me… could go really nasty and bad. I will not be angry, it is just a reflection of various type of mindset we have here to contribute to our society. Senses will only make senses to people with brains. Anyway the views published in the internet doesn’t represent majority group, we have no clue how much positive mindset via negative energy out there. We just have to know where and what we are in our environment, and relocate for better results.

一个人是否有智慧和内涵,从什么样的背景,教育程度是可以从他的谈吐看出来的。
Once again Thanks.

Reply to 新加坡人满口错误, 何时会改善？快了! 大家快加油, 面对挑战! on Wed, 03 Aug 2011 07:20:22 GMT

Wu MaMa — Wed, 03 Aug 2011 07:20:22 GMT

Thanks antebellum,

Yes. You made very good points. Why we could take a chance to salvage our Mandarin standard is because we are Chinese (if we are) and that’s should made us naturally acknowledge that Mandarin is our Mother tongue. In fact, it is an advantage for us to polish up because of what we are. It is even harder for other races to learn Mandarin… thousands of Chinese characters… so tricky to explain why write this character instead of that character (for the same terms). I shared some daily common Mandarin phrases (just a few) that is enough to cover us. There isn’t a lot to take care of for our daily regular used Mandarin phrases. Not rub into cheng yu, that is too tough.

Thanks Toddles and Wu MaMa,
"因为希望能减少两个语言之间的混淆" and "我说有条件没环境不如说没条件"。 You shared something helpful and true indeed. 好样的!
我们本来就应该尽把那些需要改善都做好来帮助和卫护我们的社会。之前我说有很多人(受过教育)还是喜欢"All kind of mix"…etc, 其实是在帮助他们找到借口,给他们台阶下。
我完全同意两位妈妈的信念”教育本要从家里开始，而越标准越好.” 谢谢您的分享。

我的信念是找出什么地方不足后，找原因，从家里开始改. 尽量建立基础。
这样当您的孩子已经听惯了也说惯了 ” 这个碗热粥很烫, 别被烫伤了”, (eg. Till 6 years old), 即使他上了学周围的朋友都说 "粥很烧”, 他也能保持自己的水准。
相信很多受过教育的父母说惯了说 "粥很烧”(over 40 years), 现在有很多宝宝也都在学 "烧” , 那么之后要改会变得更加辛苦。

Though most of us speaks English fairly well at work but many a times, we do made mistakes like saying “You want some coffee” … have been doing that without the “Do” for the past 30/40 years… “Do you like some coffee?”… so used to it that even when we speaks to Ah Mo, we speaks too fast and forgot to start with the “Do…”. We might sounds a little rude even we didn’t mean it. Same goes to “never” instead of “didn’t”. We are also lacking of patient and effort … to polish up our English.
Just sharing with you, Ban Singlish Movement… I took note of what are daily spoken broken English… there are over 150 sentences.

I know there is no perfection but I think educated parent could do something to save their innocent toddles from continuing this vicious cycle. Sad to say that If I didn’t want my child to pick up line like “You want to call what, you go and call… faster eat lah”… I have to reframe from taking my child out to the food court in the shopping mall. Children at the playground “See there, the cat is black color one”, instead of “Look there, that cat is black”. In the library, “this book is not I want one, I want one is the other one”… it is naturally to feel good in this kind of environment or many families have started to feel uncomfortable? These are places we go regularly and perhaps forever.

Perhaps by salvaging the TOP TEN Most common mistakes, that makes our languages sound much better. Just need more people to play active roles and sharing tips.

来! 来! 来! 来多一点建议正面的分享。
For better quality life!
国庆日快乐!

Reply to 新加坡人满口错误, 何时会改善？快了! 大家快加油, 面对挑战! on Wed, 03 Aug 2011 03:01:29 GMT

antebellum — Wed, 03 Aug 2011 03:01:29 GMT

General99all ,

The problem is that most parents and caregivers do not know what are the correct grammar and phrases. Although the bilingual policy has been around for so many years, how many adults do you know are very good at speaking mandarin ? The language used in our work place is predominantly English unless you are a Chinese teacher or if you work for the Chinese newspaper. Otherwise most adults do not have a chance to speak Mandarin. Most of my colleagues cannot hold a proper conversation in Mandarin, though all of them learned Chinese in school. I believe that most adults do not even read any Chinese novels or Chinese newspapers after they left school.

So it is not that parents do not want to speak to their kids using grammatically correct Mandarin, it is because they are not capable of doing so.

Instead of complaining about the mistakes, we should look into how to improve the standards of mandarin. We cannot depend on school teachers to teach because kids do not spend enough time with them. The best way to learn proper mandarin is to read Chinese books every day, and also to listen to perfect mandarin from good TV shows from China.

Wu MaMa:
教育本要从家里开始，而越标准越好。

I absolutely agree with this. However, please note that Singaporeans are not native speakers of Mandarin. Many Singaporeans are more comfortable with speaking dialect such as Cantonese, Hokkien, etc, and many grew up speaking English. Our bilingual policy has not been successful in producing adults who are capable of speaking mandarin fluently and correctly. The worst part is that many adults make mistakes when they speak Mandarin, and they don't even know that they are wrong.

Reply to 新加坡人满口错误, 何时会改善？快了! 大家快加油, 面对挑战! on Wed, 03 Aug 2011 02:44:50 GMT

antebellum — Wed, 03 Aug 2011 02:44:50 GMT

I just read the first few pages of this thread, and to those people who mocked at General99all’s mistakes, I hope that you can reflect on what you have done. Will you say the same thing if you were talking to General99all face to face ? The internet allows you to hide behind a nickname and say whatever you like without any concern about other people’s feelings, but that does not mean that it is right to do so.

Reply to 新加坡人满口错误, 何时会改善？快了! 大家快加油, 面对挑战! on Tue, 02 Aug 2011 03:35:25 GMT

Wu MaMa — Tue, 02 Aug 2011 03:35:25 GMT

我侥幸的看到你的文章，也对这事件有些看法。又喜又悲。喜是因为有人关心我们所面对的问题，悲是因为你的呼吁行动失败。只有少数人要用标准的发音和正确的词汇是不能够进步的。说实在的, 教育本要从家里开始，而越标准越好。我的孩子上了学后不敢在同学和老师面前叫我”妈咪”，改用ma3 mi4因为他怕人家会以为他是中国孩子也怕没有朋友。说话用的词也跟随他的环境的成度。有时候一急也会说错话 “我生气你”, (他的朋友常用的语法)。我们对他的栽培和要求也让他认为是过高的。

你问我们是否有条件? 我说有条件没环境不如说没条件。
听过“孟母三迁”吗？新加坡面积不大，那就是迁到海外了。

不过现在,在百货公司和学校都能碰到中国人。所以我们的环境还在改变。我同意” 孩子能在无形中轻松的掌握好双语”, 我们是大人… 不关是什么情况,我都不希望我的孩子是受害者。我希望其他家长们也能多注意,多灌输标准的语言。

Reply to 新加坡人满口错误, 何时会改善？快了! 大家快加油, 面对挑战! on Mon, 25 Jul 2011 03:05:03 GMT

General99all — Mon, 25 Jul 2011 03:05:03 GMT

Last Thur, 9.58fm 4.15pm talked about building confident in children and reduce "错败感”。 I personally felt that if the child has been speaking using correct grammar and phrases from young, this has helped the child to be more confident than some who don’t.

Have anyone ever wonder… Every morning i wake my child and say "…快上学了","爸妈也来不急上班了"。But each time, we bump into neighbours(with their kids) in the lift or void deck, you won’t hear people using the phrases I did. I was wondering, where does the "读书" come from? If it was from English, people here don’t "say go to study", they say "go to School" but the mandarin part "学校"has not been widely used. But the "做工" and the English version of "going off to work" matches. Why?
Yah, i am also puzzle with "做工＂and "工作", why the 2 ＂zuo" is of different character.

Reply to 新加坡人满口错误, 何时会改善？快了! 大家快加油, 面对挑战! on Mon, 25 Jul 2011 02:30:17 GMT

General99all — Mon, 25 Jul 2011 02:30:17 GMT

Yes. "抄送"， hear many people talking to their china supplier "请放我进去”or "放我在里面”。 I think "请在来往的邮件中，抄送给我。" is also correct.

Reply to 新加坡人满口错误, 何时会改善？快了! 大家快加油, 面对挑战! on Wed, 20 Jul 2011 18:37:53 GMT

verykiasu2010 — Wed, 20 Jul 2011 18:37:53 GMT

General99all:
Here is a tough one. How do we say \"Please Cc me in all future emails\" in proper Mandarin. Anyone knows?

以后的邮件请抄送一份给我.

Reply to 新加坡人满口错误, 何时会改善？快了! 大家快加油, 面对挑战! on Wed, 20 Jul 2011 16:13:26 GMT

lohz1969 — Wed, 20 Jul 2011 16:13:26 GMT

Good to have someone pointing out the facts though.

Ya… After recognizing that "读书" is not so correct, I think "上学" should be used more frequently. My other friends came back to Singapore for summer holiday and told me that their children pick up broken english so quickly. I was also surprised to find more foreigners than before. There were many Filipinos working in Coffee Bean these days and they speak good english. In the States, many Chinese can’t speak Mandarin but if you find someone who speaks Mandarin, you will be impressed… although they learn from their parents. Pardon me… looking at the current environment, it is a long way to go before you start hearing more local speaking with better languages standard. That is why many of my friends brought their children to the States for education. Singaporean definitely are capable of doing better… but Alas… too hard to beat it.

Reply to 新加坡人满口错误, 何时会改善？快了! 大家快加油, 面对挑战! on Tue, 19 Jul 2011 15:59:53 GMT

General99all — Tue, 19 Jul 2011 15:59:53 GMT

Here is a tough one. How do we say "Please Cc me in all future emails" in proper Mandarin. Anyone knows?

Reply to 新加坡人满口错误, 何时会改善？快了! 大家快加油, 面对挑战! on Tue, 12 Jul 2011 11:03:59 GMT

General99all — Tue, 12 Jul 2011 11:03:59 GMT

I’ve heard numerious complaints about our spoken Languages standard(parents of other nationality) and usually, I will pay more attention to those particular words or phrases. Some words are easy to be mis-used and get hooked, Eg. "got", "already","Never"… Etc. After replacing "Sure!" with "Can,can,can"(for instance) helps to make spoken English sounds much better. I realized that "Can" already comes from Hokkien "Egg Siagh" (didn’t know e correct spelling, just how it sounds) which many Hokkien used to end their conversation.

Like all campaigns, regardless it’s quit smoking/recycling/ban singish/speak proper mandarin/english campaigns… Need more people to participate inorder for it to work and improve the environment. Last week on 9.58 FM, they exchanged ideals about bringing up our standard… And this is very motivating.
Children picks up lines very quickly and if no body cares about speaking proper English/Mandarin, they will be badly affected… Since we have more educated parents(over e years) than before… It should helps. Let’s be inspired! 加油！

Reply to 新加坡人满口错误, 何时会改善？快了! 大家快加油, 面对挑战! on Wed, 06 Jul 2011 09:22:11 GMT

General99all — Wed, 06 Jul 2011 09:22:11 GMT

I am referring to improvement or progress within their means.

Environment is created by people. There are certain childcare centers with more china kids and more Australian for Australian School..etc, these are the environment where if you send your kids there… it is easier for them to speak certain language more fluently. For some reasons, I go for事在人为. Sometimes if one didn’t maintain certain skills, after a while or a long time… it will be lost. Eg. Some people learned Elementary Japanese and hadn’t the environment to speak Japanese.
I felt that we should progress and someday when we need to deal with huge foreign competition, we could take care of it easily.
Why am I addressing our problems on spoken languages… a very practical reason… no matter what we speak everyday… English as a First language and Mandarin as 2nd for mostly Chinese(because of that SG is very unique)… for at least 10 to 15 years(Schooling) and over 20... 30... 40 years of experience talking… It is very sad that some positions like customer service officers, credit cards/banks hotlines… our local is not speaking fluent enough to fill such position. Most Asian countries have their
own language and English as a foreign languages and they could speak very fluent English. They account for it better. Nowadays, filipinos filled professional position like nurses, bankers and senior officers. I also realized that hotlines for BOC, they hired many Chinese who speaks very good English.

Come on.. what’s else to share about our daily repeated mistakes… Let’s share and progress.

新加坡人满口错误, 何时会改善？ 快了! 大家快加油, 面对挑战!

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