is it possible to make it without tuition

Reply to is it possible to make it without tuition on Fri, 29 Oct 2010 06:10:40 GMT

Jennifer — Fri, 29 Oct 2010 06:10:40 GMT

Lock:
Tuition provides learning of content but does little on teaching kids how to learn

Some good tutors can teach how to learn, some cannot. Just like sch teachers.

Lock:
an end which is towards learning how to learn and being internally motivated to do well. With that then we can be assured of an independent and self motivated kid.

Agreed. Bear in mind every child is different, some mature earlier, some later. Like my two boys. I dun know if my P3 boy can be let go next year I might hv to be prepared he will get a nastier fall than my elder boy.

Reply to is it possible to make it without tuition on Fri, 29 Oct 2010 05:07:43 GMT

Lock — Fri, 29 Oct 2010 05:07:43 GMT

I really enjoyed reading all the posts here. Allow me to gather my thoughts here and do a conclusion. Feel free to feedback and comment and learn together.

Here it goes:
Learning has 2 aspects: learning the content and learning how to learn. The ideal is the latter. Motivation has 2 kinds; external and internal. Again, the ideal is the latter.

Tuition provides learning of content but does little on teaching kids how to learn and it may be the external motivation for kids. It does little on internal motivation.

CONCLUSION: if the kid is weak in foundation and needs to learn content knowledge at an accelerated speed, then tuition is necessary. BUT it must not be the end. There's still a gap in between. We should see tuition as a means to an end which is towards learning how to learn and being internally motivated to do well. With that then we can be assured of an independent and self motivated kid. Hence, our job as parents is to fill the gap, right?

Reply to is it possible to make it without tuition on Fri, 29 Oct 2010 04:28:30 GMT

sleepy — Fri, 29 Oct 2010 04:28:30 GMT

prancingpony:
Jennifer:

I think parents must learn to let go.

I always tell my hubby we must let the child fails at some pt in time so that he learns to pick himself up. IMO the earlier we let go, the better since the stakes are not so high yet.

I agree absolutely! I didn't let go earlier and went into a frenzy when psle approached for fear he would be 'lost'. I leave him on his own more in sec 1 now partly because I can't help much :lol: and it's different than in primary school. So now my p2 dd will have to learn to cope!

I let my P2 decides what to revise for exam. How much 'extra' she's willing to put in. Not by choice though, because she anti-extra work so I've to let go, can't be breathing down her neck & I don't want to spoil our relationships.

Hence, this entire year, she didn't do a single set of top school exam papers. She identifed her own weaker areas and practiced a few comprehension in addition to revising her school worksheets. After that, she has to accept her results based on her assessment :lol:

I agreed the stakes are not that high yet. As long as she maintains her high band 1, I will let her have her autonomy. If grades start to slip, of course I will step in. I'm afterall a kiasu mama

Reply to is it possible to make it without tuition on Fri, 29 Oct 2010 04:09:23 GMT

prancingpony — Fri, 29 Oct 2010 04:09:23 GMT

Jennifer:

I think parents must learn to let go.

I always tell my hubby we must let the child fails at some pt in time so that he learns to pick himself up. IMO the earlier we let go, the better since the stakes are not so high yet.

I agree absolutely! I didn't let go earlier and went into a frenzy when psle approached for fear he would be 'lost'. I leave him on his own more in sec 1 now partly because I can't help much :lol: and it's different than in primary school. So now my p2 dd will have to learn to cope!

Reply to is it possible to make it without tuition on Fri, 29 Oct 2010 03:03:40 GMT

Trapwithin — Fri, 29 Oct 2010 03:03:40 GMT

jedamum:
Jennifer:

I think parents must learn to let go.

I always tell my hubby we must let the child fails at some pt in time so that he learns to pick himself up. IMO the earlier we let go, the better since the stakes are not so high yet.
:goodpost:

Well Said! and may I add .. Learn to Catch them when they Fall too.
No one will go through through life without failure or disappointment. The important thing is to pick themselves up and continue to move forward.
That's one main principle I wanted most to inculcate into my child's life.

Reply to is it possible to make it without tuition on Fri, 29 Oct 2010 02:27:29 GMT

csc — Fri, 29 Oct 2010 02:27:29 GMT

jedamum:
Jennifer:

I think parents must learn to let go.

I always tell my hubby we must let the child fails at some pt in time so that he learns to pick himself up. IMO the earlier we let go, the better since the stakes are not so high yet.
:goodpost:

agree totally. And thanks for the reminder, Jennifer.

Reply to is it possible to make it without tuition on Fri, 29 Oct 2010 02:20:45 GMT

24hr-mum — Fri, 29 Oct 2010 02:20:45 GMT

4A* means how many marks？ 25x?

re the math question, i hv explained using the assumptn mthd, and guess n check as well. but she has prob understanding assumptn, and problem listing out the table for guess n chk. i may hv to use the pictorial mthd ie draw circles to rep the animals but eventually assumptn mthd is better if the numbers are big

Reply to is it possible to make it without tuition on Fri, 29 Oct 2010 01:40:57 GMT

Lock — Fri, 29 Oct 2010 01:40:57 GMT

Quintessential Mum:
Lock:
Or can the parents who had gone thru the no tuition path share the PSLE score of their kids? That may just encourage parents who intend to coach their kids themselves and save on tuition fees and time.

Sure, no tuition except for Ch, PSLE - 4A*

Just curious, is this the same kid in CHIJ(TPY) now (gather from other forum)? 4A* can go to any top girls' sch in Singapore right?

Reply to is it possible to make it without tuition on Fri, 29 Oct 2010 01:06:57 GMT

atutor2001 — Fri, 29 Oct 2010 01:06:57 GMT

NickleBee Tutors:
.....

However it is a misconception that dentistry, medicine and law only accept straight As students. There were people with 3Bs and 1A or even straight Bs who managed to get into dentistry and medicine.

.....The profs who conduct the interview are looking more for the X-factor that makes you stand out. ......

They very lucky because the year was 2003. Today, candidate with 3B and 1A won't even be shortlisted for interview, unless very very exceptional case - represent country in sports.... Some with 4A and 1B were also not shortlisted. A few with 4A and 1C got shortlisted but haven't heard of any getting the course except after appeal - reasons unknown - only 1 case to my knowledge.

So for those who managed to get an interview, the success depends on his/her confidence, maturity, mannerism - what we call x-factor, which many kids do not have. Unknown to you, your early exposure to the \"business world\" must have helped you tremendously in the way you have presented your case.

Can these so-called x-factor be taught? Yes, to a certain limit. However limited the help may be, with coaching is definitely better than going there - blur like sotong, giving all kind of silly politically correct and general paper type of answers.

Incidentally, community service hours on your own is much preferred to ordinary school CCA. It shows commitment, initiative and self-motivation. Many silly kids spend money go overseas do 100s of service hours. If I am in the panel, I will write-off such candidates the moment such records are reflected in their CCA. It is a clear cut case of doing for point sake.

Reply to is it possible to make it without tuition on Fri, 29 Oct 2010 00:39:30 GMT

NickleBee Tutors — Fri, 29 Oct 2010 00:39:30 GMT

atutor2001:
ksi:

Hmm...current day kids have it easy for parents to coach. During our time, we find out everything and coach ourselves to gain admission. By uni, I hope I can let go and let her fend for herself. If not, if she does not work in a good company, she may think I do not coach her for the interview. Just my 2 cents on when I will let go....
I had the same thought when my eldest kid finished JC. However, only got to realise how competitive it is nowadays. There are easily over 600 pupils with perfect scores at A level. Countless with 4As 1B. For local favourites such as med faculty or law, they are taking only 260 and 200 per intake. How to squeeze in is a real art. Those kids with coaching definitely have an advantage. Kids, left on their own, must be really mature to make it on their own. Unfortunately, mind was not that mature in thoughts - only can study

For good overseas uni, it is even worse - good write-up and interview play a critical part in getting in (not results)

I went through the selection process for dentistry and was accepted into dentistry but that was way back in 2003. I had to serve NS first so i joined in 2005.

It was one of the most rigorous interview and selection process i had ever seen. They choose 30 plus people (during my time) out of 2000 over applicants.

And we had to go for 2 interviews, and 1 manual dexterity test. I think the medical side had an essay writing component too.

However it is a misconception that dentistry, medicine and law only accept straight As students. There were people with 3Bs and 1A or even straight Bs who managed to get into dentistry and medicine. The profs who conduct the interview are looking more for the X-factor that makes you stand out. And they do know that quite a lot of the applicants have undergone coaching so they get pretty \"sian\" when they keep hearing the same old answers to their questions like \"why did you choose dentistry?\" etc etc. I would advice to just be yourself and give honest and straightforward answers to their questions.

Anyway i went in Polo-T and jeans (i came straight from my army camp) for my interview and felt really out of place amongst all the suits and ties. I remember seeing one of the students sitting beside me mugging from a photostatted book of potential interview questions and answers.

When i went for the interview, i ended up arguing with one of the profs on why my CCA scores does not co-relate with how good a dentist i could be (i got a D7 for my 'A' level CCA score, but had over 300 hours of community service which i did on my own because i refused to join a club or sports. i was just so tired from my 4 years of NPCC in sec school for which i got an 'A2' for my 'O' level CCA score).

I also had the cheek to ask the profs \"what can dentistry do for me if i should enter, and why i should choose dentistry over other courses.\" and i remember being dissatisfied with their answer. After the interview i thought they would not accept me to join dentistry and i was so surprised when i received a letter of acceptance. And my mom merrily forced me to sign the letter of acceptance though i never wanted to be a dentist in the first place.

So i guess if it really boils down to what makes you stand out in the profs' eyes and academic results are important but secondary. And i would hate to admit it but i think coaching helps too but please avoid using those trite and standard answers, the profs and drs in the interview panels have heard it all over the years.

I hope this has been useful

Zhou Shicai
Nicklebee Tutors

Reply to is it possible to make it without tuition on Thu, 28 Oct 2010 23:30:48 GMT

Jennifer — Thu, 28 Oct 2010 23:30:48 GMT

lauren:
efficient way. even for basic heuristic questions such as 6 ducks n rabbits with a total of 66 legs kind of questn she still cant reallly get it：（

at this point can i ask for feedback, how to prepare for p3 science?

The MA qn you quoted has a fixed method of solving.

Eg1. 4 bicylces and tricycles have 10 wheels.
A bicycle has 2 wheels, a tricycle has 3 wheels.
Assume all 4 are bicycles, that will b a total of 8 wheels.
The qn says a total of 10 wheels, meaning we are short of 2 wheels.
Since a tricycle has 1 more wheel than a bicycle, by taking away 2 bicycles and replacing our assumption with 2 tricycles, we will get 10 wheels now. So there are 2 bicycles (4 wheels) and 2 tricycles (6 wheels).

Do you use this method to explain to your child?

The topics covered in P3 Sci is quite basic. Bring the child to gardens (talk abt plants: shapes of the leaves, trees vs shrubs, parts of plant & its function), to the zoo (different kinds of animals: mammals, birds, etc), why are some animals considered mammals, birds, etc, daily objects used in our lives: the material they are made of, why made of a particular material, how to grow green beans, what makes it grow, etc. Again, make concepts applied to daily lives.

Reply to is it possible to make it without tuition on Thu, 28 Oct 2010 23:13:50 GMT

Jennifer — Thu, 28 Oct 2010 23:13:50 GMT

Lock:
Jennifer:
[quote=\"Lock\"]I can teach but probably can't be as good as those with years of experience behind them and tons of tried and tested materials.

I think a distinction must be made between teaching our children how to learn and teaching whatever we know (aka spoon feeding).

Once our children know how to learn, they can become independent. Else, there will be no end to tuition, esp when they go to sec, JC, uni levels and more afraid not to hv tuition as the stakes are too high by then.

Correct me if I am wrong. So, it will be to send for tuition to learn subject matter and teach them how to learn at home? I can't rely on sch trs to pass on content knowledge to the kids cos it has been proven time and time again (for all subjects) that sch trs do not teach the kids enough for them to sit for the exam. :stupid:[/quote]I remember telling my elder boy in P1 that to pls pay attention in class, I am not a trained teacher, there are stuff I did not learn during my time as a pupil such as phonics, HYPY and model drawings. He is to learn from the sch teacher and come home to teach me so that we can work together in some ways. He is very lucky to hv good teachers most of the time.

I hv issues with teachers that do not explain the why, but simply give the answers, esp in EL grammar. So I take over, spend at least an hour each day to go through the EL rules using a guide book. In doing so, I also highlight other possible usage, hoping these sink into my P3 boy and he remembers them well. I also let my children read story books since no point just going through rules, they must see it in action, reinforcing what we covered, making a long lasting impression.

I see a danger in assuming that tuition will solve all problems. We can teach all concepts/rules, etc. But it is more impt for the child to assimiliate these into daily applications. Sorry if I go off topic.

Reply to is it possible to make it without tuition on Thu, 28 Oct 2010 21:08:22 GMT

Quintessential Mum — Thu, 28 Oct 2010 21:08:22 GMT

Jennifer:
jedamum:
[quote=\"mrswongtuition\"]
Honestly, after teaching so many kids for years, those who are NOT independent learners are mostly those whose mums are SAHMs who sit with them to do their work.
chicken and egg issues.
are they NOT independent learners cos their SAHMs sit with them?
or their SAHMs sit with them cos they are NOT independent learners?

I think parents must learn to let go. It's a matter of when to let go. I coached my elder boy since P1, sent him to EL creative writing courses since I cant teach this subject, and outsourced CL when we ended up shouting at each other most of the times. I chose to let go when he was in mid P4. Sure enough there was a slip in results, but it served as a wake-up call to him. His unexpected results in P5 CA1 further jolted him to pay more attention to how he managed on his own. I always tell my hubby we must let the child fails at some pt in time so that he learns to pick himself up. IMO the earlier we let go, the better since the stakes are not so high yet. Now he is an independent learner, except when it comes to MT :oops:[/quote]Agree. The kids have to learn from their mistakes and the earlier the better. They should know that it is alright to make mistakes as long as you learn from them. After all, life is a learning journey. It is best when they are internally motivated to study/learn and when they at that stage, they truly enjoy the learning process and the sweet fruits of success and also learn to appreciate the bitter disappointments that come along too. When that happens, they have truly arrived into their own!

Reply to is it possible to make it without tuition on Thu, 28 Oct 2010 20:59:11 GMT

Quintessential Mum — Thu, 28 Oct 2010 20:59:11 GMT

Lock:
Or can the parents who had gone thru the no tuition path share the PSLE score of their kids? That may just encourage parents who intend to coach their kids themselves and save on tuition fees and time.

Sure, no tuition except for Ch, PSLE - 4A*

Reply to is it possible to make it without tuition on Thu, 28 Oct 2010 20:54:46 GMT

Quintessential Mum — Thu, 28 Oct 2010 20:54:46 GMT

snowman.697:
Quintessential Mum:
[quote=\"lauren\"]wow. so gd. i realised even in the same sch, it depends on which teacher ur child get. some teachers are lousy even if in a top sch

i thot just get them read the straits times or new paper can already
Try to exclude the newpaper - the news reports are not very appropriate for kids.

How can news reports be \"not very appropriate for kids\"?[/quote]I meant The New Paper news reports that usually reports about scandals/affairs etc. The content is not suitable for primary school kids as they are after all very impressionable.

Reply to is it possible to make it without tuition on Thu, 28 Oct 2010 16:37:29 GMT

24hr-mum — Thu, 28 Oct 2010 16:37:29 GMT

wow, didnt expect my post to generate much discussion - and very fruitful opinions.

currently i send my p2 girl to both eng and ch compo cos i believe i cant teach compo, time consuming to source creative phrases, not sure how to grade the compo, and wld be diff to make the child finish compo at home. plus i just want her to practise compo weekly so writg wont come as something strange in exams.

and also sent her to enopi math towards only in sep becos i realised she still err in simple addition n subtraction. this may be short term cos enopi wont be enuf to tackle problem sums, so i m still planning to add in math tuition nx year. cos the way i teach is sometimes not the most efficient way. even for basic heuristic questions such as 6 ducks n rabbits with a total of 66 legs kind of questn she still cant reallly get it：（

she did go for minimal tuition in eng compo, a term of ch compo. and 1 mth of math compo. the one i really wanted was just eng compo. but she went for ch / math is becos i just want to shop for the best centre before the time she really needs help.

personally i believe when the child is still young, ie kindy to primary (or at least lower pri), the child certainly needs tuition or guidance of watever sort, be it teachers or parents, doesnt matter, depends on who does a beter job. when the child is more mature, then can drop tuition for subjects that he or she can already handle. eg i hope can drop the compo tuitions when my girl is p4 (hoping she can write well alrdy) and just hv math/sci tuitn cos these two really tough n not my cup of tea.

i do agree that my kids eg are reliant on me being a sahm to study wif them. but then they are still young. there will b a time when i let go, simply bcos i hv 3 kids to coach in turn and when no. 1 goes sec 1, shd let go by then. jus tuition the one and only one or two killer subjects. prob sci and math for my case.

at this point can i ask for feedback, how to prepare for p3 science?

Reply to is it possible to make it without tuition on Thu, 28 Oct 2010 15:35:08 GMT

iFruit — Thu, 28 Oct 2010 15:35:08 GMT

atutor2001:

The truth that we are hiding from is : \"we do not accept the fact that we are unable to motivate and move our kids i.e. we have lost control to a certain extent\" - I am included because it is DH who is doing all that. Hiding from this reality, we send our kids to tutors, and justify our actions with reasons such as - syllabus too tough, I don't know how to teach, my kid is slower and more playful.....

Very well put...

We all agree that the tution can't go on forever...At some point of life the child needs to get motivated and start to self-learn.

So as a parent it should be our responsibility to ensure the child gets motivated ( get him interested in the subject, make him set goals for the future, make him see the importance of good marks however unimportant they are in the wider scheme of life..).

Once the kid gets motivated I believe he himself will ask us if he thinks he needs tution.

Motivation is the key here. But if it needs a tutor to generate that spark, so be it ( but I doubt so, in most cases a parent is better situated to do that)

Reply to is it possible to make it without tuition on Thu, 28 Oct 2010 15:12:46 GMT

Lock — Thu, 28 Oct 2010 15:12:46 GMT

Jennifer:
Lock:
I can teach but probably can't be as good as those with years of experience behind them and tons of tried and tested materials.

I think a distinction must be made between teaching our children how to learn and teaching whatever we know (aka spoon feeding).

Once our children know how to learn, they can become independent. Else, there will be no end to tuition, esp when they go to sec, JC, uni levels and more afraid not to hv tuition as the stakes are too high by then.

Reply to is it possible to make it without tuition on Thu, 28 Oct 2010 15:09:08 GMT

jedamum — Thu, 28 Oct 2010 15:09:08 GMT

Jennifer:
Lock:
I can teach but probably can't be as good as those with years of experience behind them and tons of tried and tested materials.

I think a distinction must be made between teaching our children how to learn and teaching whatever we know (aka spoon feeding).

interesting.
i personally find your brief write up on science keywords techniques and reference books very informative.

Reply to is it possible to make it without tuition on Thu, 28 Oct 2010 14:56:38 GMT

Jennifer — Thu, 28 Oct 2010 14:56:38 GMT

Lock:
I can teach but probably can't be as good as those with years of experience behind them and tons of tried and tested materials.

I think a distinction must be made between teaching our children how to learn and teaching whatever we know (aka spoon feeding).

Once our children know how to learn, they can become independent. Else, there will be no end to tuition, esp when they go to sec, JC, uni levels and more afraid not to hv tuition as the stakes are too high by then.

Reply to is it possible to make it without tuition on Thu, 28 Oct 2010 14:46:41 GMT

Lock — Thu, 28 Oct 2010 14:46:41 GMT

atutor2001:

The truth that we are hiding from is : \"we do not accept the fact that we are unable to motivate and move our kids i.e. we have lost control to a certain extent\" - I am included because it is DH who is doing all that. Hiding from this reality, we send our kids to tutors, and justify our actions with reasons such as - syllabus too tough, I don't know how to teach, my kid is slower and more playful.....

Hmm...interesting point.

Reply to is it possible to make it without tuition on Thu, 28 Oct 2010 14:41:04 GMT

atutor2001 — Thu, 28 Oct 2010 14:41:04 GMT

Lock:
atutor2001:
Tuition or no tuition, I feel that we are hiding from the truth.
Sorry, a bit slow here. What truth are we hiding from :?

What about subject proficiency? My fear is that I may not be proficient enough in the various subjects to impart knowledge to my kids (u know how maths n science is like nowadays), then am I depriving the kids of learning from a professional?

Lack of subject proficiency is the most common reasons parents feel as to why we can't teach our kids. However, I have a relative with not even primary education, too poor to pay for tuition, got her sons to HC (though they qualified for RI). Many will think that she is lucky to have kids that are self-disciplined. However, I witnessed how she taught and disciplined them since young. She made them help in cleaning toilets, make bed... at very young age (pre-primary). I believe many mummies would cry foul. They were explained of the reality that they cannot match others in wealth and need to strive on their own.

The truth that we are hiding from is : \"we do not accept the fact that we are unable to motivate and move our kids i.e. we have lost control to a certain extent\" - I am included because it is DH who is doing all that. Hiding from this reality, we send our kids to tutors, and justify our actions with reasons such as - syllabus too tough, I don't know how to teach, my kid is slower and more playful.....

Reply to is it possible to make it without tuition on Thu, 28 Oct 2010 14:37:19 GMT

jedamum — Thu, 28 Oct 2010 14:37:19 GMT

Jennifer:

I think parents must learn to let go.

I always tell my hubby we must let the child fails at some pt in time so that he learns to pick himself up. IMO the earlier we let go, the better since the stakes are not so high yet.

:goodpost:

Reply to is it possible to make it without tuition on Thu, 28 Oct 2010 14:35:07 GMT

Lock — Thu, 28 Oct 2010 14:35:07 GMT

jedamum:
Lock:

What about subject proficiency? My fear is that I may not be proficient enough in the various subjects to impart knowledge to my kids (u know how maths n science is like nowadays), then am I depriving the kids of learning from a professional?
Lock,
i am at this same crossroad as you. :stupid: :stupid:

Ya. Very frustrating. Cos now is the period where most centres are doing recruitment for 2011 classes and I got to decide quick, otherwise no more vacancy (esp for very popular and good centres).

My dd is the very obedient, disciplined and diligent type. Very attentive also, so I don't have problem to teach her myself and I homeschooled my children when they were in pre-pri. Its just that now my kiasu instinct is bugging me, making me think that letting her continue with her tuition will enable her to be at her optimal performance since she is learning from the professionals. I can teach but probably can't be as good as those with years of experience behind them and tons of tried and tested materials.

But I have other concerns as mentioned in my earlier post.
Hence :stupid: :stupid: :stupid: