How do teachers deal with visual spatial learners?

Reply to How do teachers deal with visual spatial learners? on Wed, 24 Nov 2010 01:03:10 GMT

buds — Wed, 24 Nov 2010 01:03:10 GMT

2ppaamm:
Wow, buds, your girls have very good teachers, I must say.

Yes, we're blessed to have found a good school for them to have a good
Primary foundation. It's like a neighbourhood school with banded teachers
and school quality at the same time being extremely rich in aesthetics.

We're still awaiting for replies from schools within the
vicinity where we stay now... the girls while excited abt being in a new plc
are also worried that the teachers won't be as nice or understanding.

2ppaamm:
They are no inferior to the elite schools.

:celebrate:

2ppaamm:
It is interesting that you get to ask those questions in PTM, because I never had to.

I suppose in my case, i wondered why they never called since she started
with them. :lol:

2ppaamm:
Walking around: He is disturbing the class, and if he walks, others also want to walk so how can we control the class? We cannot give him preferential treatment.

:roll:

2ppaamm:
Talking too much: But I don't even know what he is talking about. We don't understand him. (Actually he goes too deep into the topic for P4.) He is just babbling nonsense. (???)

Mebbe they only have sufficient knowledge up to the level they're teaching.. :laugh:

2ppaamm:
Helping his friend: I don't want him to leave his seat and disturb another child. His friend doesn't need his help.

:snuggles:

2ppaamm:
But those are the one or two that I met.

http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys.php

2ppaamm:
There's this one great teacher I met, though. She would make sure my son is ok, and goes to his rescue whenever he is in trouble. Because of all the traumas in school, my son is highly anxious and afraid of school. There was once he came home without his school bag as the teacher wanted him to do something or he cannot go home. He was so afraid he ran off without his bag.

After what she said, i might consider going home too.

2ppaamm:
There again, he would have missed out some fantastic friendships and that one or two great teachers. I guess there are two sides to every coin.

Win some, lose some?

Yes indeed...

There will always be 2 sides to every coin.

Reply to How do teachers deal with visual spatial learners? on Sat, 20 Nov 2010 10:44:04 GMT

2ppaamm — Sat, 20 Nov 2010 10:44:04 GMT

Wow, buds, your girls have very good teachers, I must say.

I have some experiences with the neighbourhood schools. My girls were there and DS1 was there till P4, too. They are no inferior to the elite schools.

It is interesting that you get to ask those questions in PTM, because I never had to. They'd call me up to complain before I could. In K1 or so, the teachers were ok with him walking around, finishing his work and help others. But in P2, the teacher was badly insulted. Teachers don't like to feel that their curriculum is pitching at the wrong level.

Walking around: He is disturbing the class, and if he walks, others also want to walk so how can we control the class? We cannot give him preferential treatment.

Talking too much: But I don't even know what he is talking about. We don't understand him. (Actually he goes too deep into the topic for P4.) He is just babbling nonsense. (???)

Helping his friend: I don't want him to leave his seat and disturb another child. His friend doesn't need his help.

But those are the one or two that I met.

There's this one great teacher I met, though. She would make sure my son is ok, and goes to his rescue whenever he is in trouble. Because of all the traumas in school, my son is highly anxious and afraid of school. There was once he came home without his school bag as the teacher wanted him to do something or he cannot go home. He was so afraid he ran off without his bag.

It is also found that there are far more boys with social problems than the girls. Girls tend to adept better (until the teenage rebellion sets in). I found my girls handling better in school as well. They are more articulate and can communicate their needs better.

In an elite school, there is another huge set of problematic parents, who are always on a lookout for their children. This is not bad, but my experience has been that, SOME parents, in the name of their children's welfare, will not hesitate to harm my child, simply because he is different. There's also the element of jealousy. If my child is weird, non-compliant and does badly in school, that'll be ok to many parents. Unfortunately, if he happens to do well academically, there will be a lot of people hoping to run him down. The teachers hence have a lot to handle, so sometimes I wonder if I should have not let him take the GEP screening, or let him stay in a neighbourhood school with his sisters.

There again, he would have missed out some fantastic friendships and that one or two great teachers. I guess there are two sides to every coin.

Reply to How do teachers deal with visual spatial learners? on Mon, 15 Nov 2010 07:07:25 GMT

buds — Mon, 15 Nov 2010 07:07:25 GMT

2ppaamm:
I often wonder whether the schools exist for the students or the teachers?

Uh 2ppaamm... they term it as compulsory education.

2ppaamm:
Shouldn't our schools cater for all types of learners? Isn't this what CE is about?

Mebbe not a case of schools but more so; teachers ya think?

My DD2 is one loud-motor-mouth-know-it-all too. :roll: Which
worries me most times & during PTC i always ask the teachers
who are teaching her with regards to that... i never expected to
hear their answers. :shock:

Knowing how we (well... our kiddies and us) will forever be under
the mercy of the system, i was :scared: that once she entered P1,
i'd be called in to see the sch teachers or principal ever so often
with complaints of her non-conformity. But little did i know, there
ARE kind and accomodating teachers around. By accommodating,
i don't mean acceeding to her whims & endless chatter or non-
conformity but rather they help her to tune to the system and
equip her with the know hows to score with her learning abilities.

I found out from one teacher that she did (indeed!) like to talk a
lot but they used the word .... uhmmm.... lemme see how they
termed it.... \"eloquent\"?? :!: I had to ask the teacher to repeat
the word again! :lol: I couldn't believe what i was hearing cause
i was dead ready to accept the worst that day. There was more..

Share with you a few, hokie? :lol:

Teacher #1

Me : I'm sure you already know what a chatterbox she is and i
honestly hope that she doesn't disrupt your class/teachings tt
much..\" :scared:

Teacher : \"Your daughter is a joy and a real pleasure to teach...
she is proficient in her languages and an extremely eloquent
speaker.

More students can sure benefit from when they hear her speak.
She makes conscientious effort to speak well and ensure others
do too.\"

Teacher : \"And just so you know, we allow all children to take turns
to speak and your daughter has learnt to compromise on this, it is
fine really... don't you worry unduly.\"

Teacher #2

Me :\"Does she walk around in class a lot? Cos we know her as a super
hyperactive child and fidgety... and we do hope you won't mind to
remind her of your class rules..\"

Teacher : \"Oh well, that is a small thing... ma'am. Since she finishes her
work fast and nicely done too... .... (did he just say nice? :faint:) we do
not mind the walks as she actually goes round helping her peers in
need..\"

Teacher #3

Me : \"She's quite the mischievous monkey at home, is she like that in class?\"

Teacher : \"We find it an endearing character of hers, fun to be around
with... be it for work or play... \"

2ppaamm:
I do believe I'm up to date with my taxes.

You crack me up lar, 2ppaamm. :laugh:

:rotflmao:

I believe though the system calls for order in most cases & in most times
there seems to be \"model\" answers required for the children to follow
where no one word or drawing outside that \"model\" answer will be
entertained, there are teachers who truly have the passion to teach &
go out of the way to ensure that all children can develop their potential
with the learning abilities/styles bestowed upon them; without having to
compromise on the sometimes-stifling-needs of the system, but instead
work positively towards it... albeit whether they are trained or untrained
before or after the 90s.

It boils down to not just how much one knows, but how much one believes...
That each and every child is born different with traits unique to their own and none
other.... that each and every child CAN do it in their own capacity... with some help
definitely... the guidance that \"they\" will try their darnest best to provide.

With this i note, that i am hell-:scared: to move my girls out of this fantastic
neighbourhood school and put them into a new school near where we now reside
to adapt... (since i cannot afford to send them to international school... :P)
but all i can do is pray that there will be teachers in their new school who
will be willing to work with parents like myself, as their partners in this learning journey....
who are super ONZ and pro-active on helping our children achieve the best of their
potentials... like the many exemplary teachers the girls have now in their current school.

I must say that though my girls are nowhere near gifted-ness of any kind :lol:...
they are defintely the happiest learners in this so-often termed stifling system
of local education.

Here's to extraordinary teachers! :celebrate:

Reply to How do teachers deal with visual spatial learners? on Mon, 15 Nov 2010 06:05:28 GMT

pingsped — Mon, 15 Nov 2010 06:05:28 GMT

Most teachers who got their teaching diplomas in 1990s or earlier, probably don't know much about types of learners. Those who have attended relevant courses, may have forgotten about them too cos they don't have time to think about it.

(Even psychologists and GEP teachers are like that. It also took me many years of reading, reflection & \"hypothesis-testing\" on my own.)

I see some of my teacher friends bring back loads of marking & CCAs also eat up spare time & energy.

The good teachers try to improvise on the spot to help the child. The terrible teachers make excuses and complain louder than parents (to cover up for themselves, IMO).

Some school counsellors are not of much help. They often give \"unworkable\" advice.

I usu try not to impose on teachers as much as possible. It will be helpful to manage expectations right from the start if you suspect your child may be disruptive. This is because it is very hard to change mindsets/prejudices. When there are small improvements, teachers generally become more receptive.

It is impossible for the child to generalise/apply whatever skills he has learnt in therapy if the teacher is hostile.

I always try to make sure my clients have adequate auditory skills & social skills to function in a classroom before they enter P1.

I think the onus is on parents to try to help their child compensate their weakness & work with the teachers in a cordial manner. Because they understand their child best & are in the best position to advocate for them.

2ppaamm, I'm sorry that your son is still having having the same problems. Perhaps you can try to enrol your child in private GEP classes to work on grp skills. As you are paying $$ directly, the teachers are likely to be more supportive.

Or you can gather your child's classmates & do at least 20 grp teaching sessions this holiday. If you can do it well, I think there will be less issues in class next year.
[/b]

Reply to How do teachers deal with visual spatial learners? on Mon, 15 Nov 2010 03:24:51 GMT

Andaiz — Mon, 15 Nov 2010 03:24:51 GMT

2ppaamm, I feel so much for you! I know that dd#2 would face some of these issues when she gets to P1 next year.

We have just come back from my PTC at kindergarten. My heart literally sank and I'm now motivated to help her in a different way!
They love her social, EQ aspect but do not see why she can take a long time in reading through questions and doing her daily work. She's very focused, not that she's day dreaming etc...but sometimes, the written word is very difficult for her. They quoted an instance where she took a long time working through a sum. However, when the teacher read this question to her, she could *snap finger* get to it quite matter of factly!

I'm not a trained psychologist but had majored in Psych way back when :roll: . I too noticed that she sings well and takes to mneumonics very much easily than dd#1; and understands concepts more easily (okay, so that's not quite sequential :!: ).

Pen-to-paper tests in exam environment is going to be very challenging indeed for her. But as the directresses put into perspective, she has a year to go before SA2. I'm -ing that her teachers don't penalize her and kill her joy of learning till then! :roll:

What's the experience of parents of such auditory children? Should I highlight this to the teacher from Day 1?

Reply to How do teachers deal with visual spatial learners? on Mon, 08 Nov 2010 07:35:01 GMT

Funz — Mon, 08 Nov 2010 07:35:01 GMT

This is interesting.

Though both my kids are not anywhere near gifted, I have always suspected they are leaning more towards visual spatial learners. They do exhibit some auditory learning characteristics as well. But from the explanation, they appear visual-spatial dorminant. And I am pretty surprised to see that I myself could also be a visual spatial learner but through our school system during my era, I am trained to be an auditory learner.

DD was completing 48 -60pc puzzles at 2yrs old. DS loves legos and will build pretty complex structures. My kids recognise whole words but are lousy at phonics, they struggle to spell verbally but will be able to spell pretty accurately in the written form.

DS is only 5 so still too early to say but when told to add verbally, out comes the fingers but when given a 3 level number bond pyramid game that DD brought back from school, DS was able to complete all 5 levels within 5 minutes without any help or explanation.

From what I can see from DD's math worksheet, she also appear to derive her answers intuitively and there goes the marks for method & workings. Had to drill her and remind her to write down all her workings. But in the process of writing down her workings, she makes mistakes instead and got the answer wrong. :stupid: DD is only in P1 now so I can still help her do what needs to be done to get the necessary marks. But when I am also the kind who can get the answers but cannot show or explain the method to which I derive the answer then how to teach her?

Reply to How do teachers deal with visual spatial learners? on Sun, 07 Nov 2010 16:27:49 GMT

teachingmum — Sun, 07 Nov 2010 16:27:49 GMT

Hi 2ppaamm

Can see your family is really hurt by the whole experience.

If I ever return to service, I will remember your words and experience. Will share with my friends who are in service too.

Reply to How do teachers deal with visual spatial learners? on Sun, 07 Nov 2010 16:12:52 GMT

2ppaamm — Sun, 07 Nov 2010 16:12:52 GMT

teachingmum:
Teachers are not trained psychologists. For special cases, we will consult the school counsellors. If your child's teachers do miss out something, kindly let them know or even enlighten them.

I recall my son's P2 teacher who called me up after my son spent one week in her class. Her first question was to ask me how my son was like. I tried to tell her. Before I could finish even my first sentence, she went on to tell me how many thousand problem my son has, and how she knew my son better than me, because she had taught for more than 30 years, and how I have not brought up my son very well.

When I asked for her to teach my son socially as he is not good at it, but he would function very well academically, she told me in my face my son was not gifted (I didn't say he was, I didn't know then). When MOE stepped in and asked her to give him accelerated work, both the school and the teacher turned a deaf ear.

My experience has been extraordinarily painful, and I sometimes wonder why I meet the black ones. Of course I have met the good ones as well. Though they do their duties well, it is the black or green ones who leave scars in our children's lives. We are dealing with lives here. We've seen how years and years of hard work can be wiped out overnight with one complain or two of principals and teachers. There should be no black sheep in education. Period.

I cannot accept teachers/principals complaining that their class sizes being too big, and therefore they cannot this cannot that. To me, these are all excuses. I impose the same standard on myself. The responsibility of an educator is great. We have to educate all, and be fair to all. There's no excuses to be made, class size, learning disabilities, rude students, lousy parents, bad attitudes etc. They are all to be given equal chance and accord same treatment. An education is their right. Period.

Easier said then done. Like Deminc said, education is an economic investment. The tertiary institutions are to generate graduates who can employable and add to the economy. E.g. with the IR, you will see many courses in the polys and universities started for this purpose. When the country has a direction on Digital media, new schools are set up, huge funds are set up to attract firms and VCs to come.

But, as parents, is this really what education is for our children? Hm... of course we want our children to be gainfully employed and contribute economically to the country. However, it is much more than that. We want our children to realize their potential, choose a career that becomes a calling, and find happiness in their career and not become a money making machine.

Reply to How do teachers deal with visual spatial learners? on Sun, 07 Nov 2010 15:01:25 GMT

teachingmum — Sun, 07 Nov 2010 15:01:25 GMT

Hi,

As an ex teacher, let me provide some insights…

1. Drawing models is not the only problem-solving skill taught in school.

2. A number of other methods such as looking for patterns, compare and contrast, listing and even simply by drawing out the problems are taught.

3. Pupils are taught various skills/ tools and they must know which skills/tools to use.

4. Usually, teachers accept more than one solution to a problem. When we discovered another method, we would inform the head and had it included in the marking key. Thus, sometimes, you will see yr child’s solution being remarked.

5. We do give full marks to acceptable ‘short’ solutions. However, if no working is shown and only answer is given, no mark or just answer mark will be awarded. This is to prevent cases of pupils with terrific eyesight from getting marks they don’t deserve. In addition, in the instructions, it is clearly stated that workings must be shown.

If no step is shown, we do look at the working column or markings on the diagrams to look for evidence that pupil knew how to solve the problem on his own. Think you won’t want a extremely lucky child to score very well for PSLE just because he/ she sat beside a very smart kid or simply Mother Luck was with the pupil that whatever one answer (without steps) written down is the right answer.

6. Lastly, I believe many teachers, including me, will accept ‘the sun hang low in the sky’. We may even encourage the kids to be creative and not to regurgitate from the well circulated ‘Good Phrases’ list.

There are some black sheep, ‘green’ sheep but also excellent sheep around. However, I still think the child’s best teachers are his/ her own parents. Parents, do work closely with the teachers. Teachers are not trained psychologists. For special cases, we will consult the school counsellors. If your child’s teachers do miss out something, kindly let them know or even enlighten them.

Reply to How do teachers deal with visual spatial learners? on Sun, 07 Nov 2010 10:24:57 GMT

2ppaamm — Sun, 07 Nov 2010 10:24:57 GMT

deminc:
I believe I spend much more time reading up on education issues and research than most teachers.

:rotflmao: How true! Reading your posts, I cannot agree more. I think you do know more than many teachers AND PRINCIPALS!!!!

I'm constantly amazed that I do know more than my children's teachers as well. They are dealing with a roomful of gifted students, yet they have not grasp many concepts. I've spent hours and hours researching, reading and finding out, and then to let them know. Of course, my revelation is NEVER accepted very well. I'm always the protective mother, and they have years and years of experience. (But not with my kid, right?) I was the first to suspect my son was AS (they insisted it was ADHD), I realized my oldest had executive function problems (they said he was naughty and rebelled while he actually couldn't cope with all the instructions crossing fires), I knew my son had auditory problems, while they argued that \"I saw him the other day in a roomful and he was ok, why isn't he ok today?\" Teachers should read up a bit more, since more and more children are diagnosed with learning disabilities every day.

Stop calling the children stupid, or judge them by their deficiencies, we need to love and help them. Look for the best in each child and nurture them accordingly. That's why we (I'm a teacher, too) choose to teach. Sadly, with all the KPIs in place, MANY (not all) teachers and principals are more worried about their promotions than the welfare of one or two kids. But in a resource poor country like Singapore, EVERY child is precious. Mine's special, maybe hard to teach, but he is also a precious child to Singapore, I hope.

Reply to How do teachers deal with visual spatial learners? on Sun, 07 Nov 2010 09:33:13 GMT

2ppaamm — Sun, 07 Nov 2010 09:33:13 GMT

I already knew my son has got auditory processing problems, so he misses out everything in class. He does not know that the teacher has given instructions, he does not know what he has to do, the deadlines etc etc. The teachers are not forgiving either, they cannot understand why a bright boy like him cannot understand instructions. He does not even know that the teachers have given back his papers and he doesn't know his marks.

I told the teachers he has auditory processing issues. DH knows that too. What surprises me is that DH told me the other day that the OT probably diagnosed him wrong. He observed that it was very noisy and he had no problem the other day. The same thing the teachers told me when I explained his auditory processing problems to them. They refused to believe me.

Strange thing is, he can tell you how many mosquitoes are flying around you as he can hear their wings perfectly. Don't gossip about him in the girls' room, you girls, because he can hear every word you say! So you can imagine how his attention has to be shared with the insects, the noise outside the classroom, the computers humming, the teachers talking the next door, the music next door, the children running on the corridors....

I chanced upon this article written by someone with auditory processing problems. It is hard to explain why and how, but that's how it is. Teachers cannot understand, sometimes, parents too. Hope it is useful to you to check either your kids or help some kids in your children's classes. Auditory processing does come with autism and other learning disabilities.

http://qw88nb88.wordpress.com/living-with-auditory-processing-disorder/

Reply to How do teachers deal with visual spatial learners? on Sun, 07 Nov 2010 09:25:34 GMT

pecalis — Sun, 07 Nov 2010 09:25:34 GMT

MoonFlower:
Hey moonflower, how do you tell if DS is an auditory person, because he sounds like a visual person to me... My oldest son, who is clearly spatial, definitely needs music on when he does his work.

I read about it from internet when my ds about 1, I tried the test he's more kinestastic learner. That time inside me, I told myself oppss..our education system may not be suitable for him. I found out his also auditory cos he can sang a few songs of Elvis when he was like 4, daddy's favourite Elvis's CD. Then everytimes when i scolded him i thought he was not listening but he was. As a toddlers, he will insisted to leave the tv on with his favourite shows while he was walking about doing his own playing. When we went movies, he will pick up the lines after watching, like Mr Bean's holidays he picked up spanish in the movie, for me i was like forgotten.
Last yr the school did the learning test for all p4 (*we paid for it)and he was under major auditory and kinestastic learning. The test i reminded did recommend like some soft music or so when doing his work. However, I still remind him he still need his eyes to see and learn. Since i know his learning style i try to make use of it to help him in his studies, his hearing is pretty sharp too.

I also had the same conclusion tt kinestatic learner will be most disadvantaged and often ended up in the NT stream in sec sch - not tt they are stupid, but the teaching style in sch does not cater to their learning style. The good thing is tt most of us have a mixture of learning styles and not just skewed towards only 1 style...

Reply to How do teachers deal with visual spatial learners? on Sun, 07 Nov 2010 09:17:12 GMT

cnimed — Sun, 07 Nov 2010 09:17:12 GMT

2ppaamm:
I often wonder whether the schools exist for the students or the teachers? Shouldn't our schools cater for all types of learners? Isn't this what CE is about? I do believe I'm up to date with my taxes.

My personal take:
Schools exist for the economy. The kinds of school, the syllabus, are planned according to the projected needs of the economy. The marking system is to increase efficiency, but sometimes efficiency means switching off personal judgements (referring to teachers who also see flaws in the marking system.) In addition, talented teachers are not often found in the lower levels of education. Kind flexible teachers may be afraid of the system. When we find a good teacher we are grateful and happy for our children.

CE should not be compulsory. It was only made compulsory less than 10 years ago as a political tool to promote national identity. That's fine, but if CE is compulsory, then the government has to take on the onus of catering for all children. They are increasing the number of \"alternative schools\" and special assistants, but bottomline, software, aka well-trained teachers, is still lacking. I believe I spend much more time reading up on education issues and research than most teachers.

jedamum,
I believe it's not the system catering to mainstream that is the problem. It's when the teachers sometimes knowingly or unknowingly do things damaging to our children that raise our hackles. Have you ever had your child coming home black-faced, then later in the day, throw a tantrum, hit his head, and say he is stupid and to throw him down the rubbish chute because he is useless? That teacher came highly recommended to me by a friend whose child had global development delay. She was good for my friend's child, but not mine.

Reply to How do teachers deal with visual spatial learners? on Sun, 07 Nov 2010 08:43:47 GMT

2ppaamm — Sun, 07 Nov 2010 08:43:47 GMT

MoonFlower:

I read about it from internet when my ds about 1, I tried the test he's more kinestastic learner. That time inside me, I told myself oppss..our education system may not be suitable for him. I found out his also auditory cos he can sang a few songs of Elvis when he was like 4, daddy's favourite Elvis's CD. Then everytimes when i scolded him i thought he was not listening but he was. As a toddlers, he will insisted to leave the tv on with his favourite shows while he was walking about doing his own playing. When we went movies, he will pick up the lines after watching, like Mr Bean's holidays he picked up spanish in the movie, for me i was like forgotten.
Last yr the school did the learning test for all p4 (*we paid for it)and he was under major auditory and kinestastic learning. The test i reminded did recommend like some soft music or so when doing his work. However, I still remind him he still need his eyes to see and learn. Since i know his learning style i try to make use of it to help him in his studies, his hearing is pretty sharp too.

I've got a lot to learn. I'm going to research a bit more about this auditory processing thing ...

Reply to How do teachers deal with visual spatial learners? on Sun, 07 Nov 2010 08:37:24 GMT

2ppaamm — Sun, 07 Nov 2010 08:37:24 GMT

pecalis:

Back to models, I was also fascinated by this mtd, and I also learnt all I could when dd was in P5 and P6. I'm so good with it now, tt I'm venturing into being a private tutor for pri sch math:) Honestly, this mtd does help majority of pupils to \"see\" or visualize. It's a lot of drilling though. I do get bored with this mtd after some time and will teach my \"brighter\" kids alternative mtds if they are capable of handling. I think this is a useful tools for pupils who are weaker, or can't visualise and for those who love the step by step solution.

JMHO

Great! I just had a conversation with a parent yesterday and was shocked by how much a tutor can earn. Wow! Go for it!

I guess modeling is preferred at lower primary. I don't like the modeling method after the kid goes to end of P5. It just doesn't not seem to work well, especially when there are 2 unknowns, introduced towards the end of P6. Sure you can still solve it in a convoluted way using models at that stage, but algebra becomes straight forward and easy to understand in those circumstances. Algebra is also a step-by-step method and will be taught sooner or later. My thinking is models work well for lower primary. After that, we have to get real and move on to algebra to equip the kid to solve many P6 questions. I prefer algebra because it can grow old with us. The visual method I see my boys use involves no algebra and no model. Just fingers counting at best and answers pop out.

But, to each his own. My point is really, the teachers should understand and accept. And no, my kids are not always being understood. And from my simple research (which may not be complete), visual spatial children have problem vocalizing their thoughts as they see things in pictures. They cannot explain, so that's why it is difficult to explain and sometimes, we have to step in. I have stopped stepping in to explain these days. If they are marked wrong, I just laugh, shake my head and move on. I cannot be bothered to get into a fight with my children asking them to show their workings, and I'm even more unwilling to be labeled the kiasu-mark-grabbing-mother again. Life is more than that few marks for me nowadays, there are too many fires to fight already.

Reply to How do teachers deal with visual spatial learners? on Sun, 07 Nov 2010 08:33:09 GMT

MoonFlower — Sun, 07 Nov 2010 08:33:09 GMT

Hey moonflower, how do you tell if DS is an auditory person, because he sounds like a visual person to me… My oldest son, who is clearly spatial, definitely needs music on when he does his work.[/quote]

I read about it from internet when my ds about 1, I tried the test he’s more kinestastic learner. That time inside me, I told myself oppss…our education system may not be suitable for him. I found out his also auditory cos he can sang a few songs of Elvis when he was like 4, daddy’s favourite Elvis’s CD. Then everytimes when i scolded him i thought he was not listening but he was. As a toddlers, he will insisted to leave the tv on with his favourite shows while he was walking about doing his own playing. When we went movies, he will pick up the lines after watching, like Mr Bean’s holidays he picked up spanish in the movie, for me i was like forgotten.
Last yr the school did the learning test for all p4 (*we paid for it)and he was under major auditory and kinestastic learning. The test i reminded did recommend like some soft music or so when doing his work. However, I still remind him he still need his eyes to see and learn. Since i know his learning style i try to make use of it to help him in his studies, his hearing is pretty sharp too.

Reply to How do teachers deal with visual spatial learners? on Sun, 07 Nov 2010 08:15:56 GMT

2ppaamm — Sun, 07 Nov 2010 08:15:56 GMT

jedamum:
2ppaamm

You shouldn't worry so much about the system. Cos it appears that it is the teachers that you have encountered that are not flexible in teaching and grading. However, i feel that the teacher did right to highlight the requirements of mainstream psle. We are then there to help our child understand that this grading system caters to the majority and is not a true gauge of their abilities and potential. I personally feel that if your son's gifted math abilities, you can try the dsa route so that he can pursue that interest in a less rigid sec sch system without being hindered by his psle performance.
All the best.

Jedamum, it is going to sound crazy... I'm struggling even to keep him in a mainstream school! Not that he is not able to cope, but that the school cannot cope with him. I often wonder whether the schools exist for the students or the teachers? Shouldn't our schools cater for all types of learners? Isn't this what CE is about? I do believe I'm up to date with my taxes.

Reply to How do teachers deal with visual spatial learners? on Sun, 07 Nov 2010 02:23:44 GMT

jedamum — Sun, 07 Nov 2010 02:23:44 GMT

2ppaamm

You shouldn’t worry so much about the system. Cos it appears that it is the teachers that you have encountered that are not flexible in teaching and grading. However, i feel that the teacher did right to highlight the requirements of mainstream psle. We are then there to help our child understand that this grading system caters to the majority and is not a true gauge of their abilities and potential. I personally feel that if your son’s gifted math abilities, you can try the dsa route so that he can pursue that interest in a less rigid sec sch system without being hindered by his psle performance.
All the best.

Reply to How do teachers deal with visual spatial learners? on Sun, 07 Nov 2010 01:11:55 GMT

pecalis — Sun, 07 Nov 2010 01:11:55 GMT

My dd has strange ways of solving math problems too - usually skipping many steps or getting answers in just 2-3 lines, but she'll write them down. She hardly use models as she already visualize the solutions in her mind. She also told me when she saw her friends solutions in models, she got all confused

Her tr and I will ask her to explain her solutions. Her experience has not been negative, tr usually give her the marks as tr could follow. (guess her mtd not as advance as 2ppaamm's kids :)) Just tt sometimes, I still don't understand her method and due to time constraint, we'll just move on. Don't see why I should \"waste\" her time to \"teach\" me when she already know how to solve those qns. Then she was preparing for psle.

Back to models, I was also fascinated by this mtd, and I also learnt all I could when dd was in P5 and P6. I'm so good with it now, tt I'm venturing into being a private tutor for pri sch math:) Honestly, this mtd does help majority of pupils to \"see\" or visualize. It's a lot of drilling though. I do get bored with this mtd after some time and will teach my \"brighter\" kids alternative mtds if they are capable of handling. I think this is a useful tools for pupils who are weaker, or can't visualise and for those who love the step by step solution.

JMHO

Reply to How do teachers deal with visual spatial learners? on Sun, 07 Nov 2010 00:47:27 GMT

2ppaamm — Sun, 07 Nov 2010 00:47:27 GMT

jedamum:
2ppaamm:

For example, those thingies they teach in primary school, models and stuff, all become useless in secondary school. Which sec school uses models? I wonder.... maybe someone who knows should enlighten me, because 3 of my kids have gone to sec school and none of them use it.
ah..2ppaamm....
my dh and i are sold on the usefulness of models. i read with interest in another thread about how models involves letting the younger students understands how the sums are worked out instead of algebra. i tend to agree that while algebra is used in sec sch onwards, using models now helps normal kids to visualise.
2ppaamm:
Then, in real life, who sits down and calculate and show workings? We calculate in our heads and if the answer is correct, who cares how you get there? At the tertiary level, all these calculations are irrelevant because they would be considered simple, so what's up with the step by step, we can skip 10 steps and the prof will still understand us.
in some real professions, calculations and workings are very important. just because we did not see them does not mean that they do not exist. when disputes happened, every step of every working is important so do not write such skills off as irrelevant. normal school cater for normal students which makes up bulk of the workforce. not every student goes on to the university to skip 10 steps and have their prof mark them correct. my P2 still have classmates who cannot cope with P2 math cos they cannot understand the concept and i feel that teaching workings is a proper way to let these children learn. your kid is no doubt gifted in his own way, but so are other normal kids special to their own parents. the education system cannot be change to fit just a minor few so we as parents have to adjust our own expectations of the system and not blame it for its normalcy. on the whole, the system is still very much better than the rest. are our kids' future dictated by how this system works? i don't think so; it really depends on us; the parents.
2 cents; no offense.

I must have used too strong words in my last post, let me elaborate what I mean. I used to think that those models were very useful. And, since we were not trained to use them, I diligently learnt them. Unfortunately, they cannot be used to solve complex questions that were posed in P5/P6. For the more complex questions, I had to use algebra to solve them, and then remap them into a model and teach my kids that. For sure, those that require simultaneous equations cannot be solved EFFICIENTLY with models. In the end, 2 of my children told me the P6 teachers desperately tried to teach simultaneous equations to their students, but none could grasp.

Then, there was one incident that changed my perception of models completely. My son had solved a question using a completely different method than everyone else. He had only 3 lines in his working, but his answer was correct. He was marked wrong, because the teacher did not understand it. When approached and my son explained to the teacher, he agreed my son was right, but they refused to give him a single mark (out of 5) explaining in PSLE, you are not allowed to explain. So I asked another parent to help me by giving me her son's answers. To my horror, that boy got his steps all jumbled up, but because he used model, the teacher gave him all the 5 marks. I pointed out to the principal (I shouldn't have) and the principal got very angry with me for pointing out his staff's incompetence in marking.

I then asked the Math HOD for the model answer. No doubt, boxes and models was used. BUT, it was clear that the steps were exactly algebra 'fit' into a model. That's when I spent 2 weeks teaching my son algebra and fended off all mistakes going forward. He went on and scored 99.5 for P6 prelims, and they rounded it off to 100. He was the only person who took the paper with a perfect score. When people asked me how to help their kids with Math, I said dump the model at P5. Those who believed me (about 5 parents) invariably scored A* for the Maths paper with little pain or tuition.

On the calculations and steps. I'm not saying that those calculations are useless, because I use them too. But at the primary school level, some kids can see through those steps and they are elementary at Primary school, then they shouldn't be marked wrong simply because they skip a few steps. Teachers should expect that some children do 'see' things differently. They should still be marked correct. In fact, this ability is what differentiates a Mathematically gifted and one has to be taught one step at a time. Like a child who used the steps, the child who could 'see' and put down an answer should be marked correct also. In Singapore, I fear, we are discouraging creativity by marking them down.

I have this simple hypothesis that we were all once geniuses and probably many children were born with this capability of solving the Maths questions quickly and comfortably. However, because they were afraid of not scoring that mark in the exams, they chose to forgo that gift and showed every step teachers ask, even if that was not how they derived the answer. I remember getting an answer to the question first, then think of how to present it to my teacher in a format she understood in a completely different way.

When I was still in Primary school, I remember we could get all the marks if we got our answers correct with or without working. If we could not do the question, we got no mark at all. Then, in about P5, my teacher told us that there was a change to help those who could not answer the questions completely. If we could show a few steps, we could still get a few marks here and there without knowing the final answers. The steps are supposed to help us gain marks even if we do not know ALL the steps. So, we were asked to show intermediary steps so that if we make small calculation errors, we could still get a few marks. It seems we have steered away from that, and forgot the main purpose of showing the workings.

I have many friends who have 'average' kids who could do that at ease in lower primary. The well-meaning mother would insist on seeing every single step. I do not interfere with my friends teaching their children (unless they ask for my opinion, which they never do because many of my friends are teachers), but if those were my kids, I'd give them something more challenging to do. It will come a time they cannot do everything with one sighting. That's when I'd teach them the steps. Until then, I'd let them skip the steps.

At tertiary level, we still need to show how we derive our answers, but we need not show step-by-step, as long as the sequence written down is logical and flowed. There is no hard and fast rule what must be written in what way. When I was doing Math in the uni, I remembered having the strangest steps because I didn't like to copy the prof's answers, and it would stump the profs for a while. Then they had a clearer look and found merit in what I was doing (I was not always right). I had the steps, but I combined a few ways of doing things, invented some new styles... I had a lot of fun even with Maths.

And, the international GMAT exams, the SAT exams all do not need workings. These are used for entrance into universities for post-grad and undergrad. In these exams, speed is of essence, and the quicker you solve them, the better. No one cares about steps, and I guess you can't be lucky all the time to get all the questions right if you don't know your stuff. Steps become irrelevant.

Conclusion? Workings are important and helpful, but they should not be everything. We should make some space for everyone's learning style. Just like the P2 child who should be accepted for not being able to do simple maths, a child should be accepted for being able to see the answer instantly. In our schools, we emphathize and help the weak, but the ones who function differently (and they could be have learning disabilities as well) should also be understood and accepted as well.

Reply to How do teachers deal with visual spatial learners? on Sun, 07 Nov 2010 00:47:05 GMT

2ppaamm — Sun, 07 Nov 2010 00:47:05 GMT

Duplicate. Sorry.

Reply to How do teachers deal with visual spatial learners? on Sat, 06 Nov 2010 23:16:00 GMT

cnimed — Sat, 06 Nov 2010 23:16:00 GMT

2ppaamm:
Who is teaching English in our schools, may I ask?

At the lower levels, definitely not English grads! It irks me to realise that the English teacher probably doesn't even read much.

Reply to How do teachers deal with visual spatial learners? on Sat, 06 Nov 2010 17:29:31 GMT

jedamum — Sat, 06 Nov 2010 17:29:31 GMT

2ppaamm:

For example, those thingies they teach in primary school, models and stuff, all become useless in secondary school. Which sec school uses models? I wonder.... maybe someone who knows should enlighten me, because 3 of my kids have gone to sec school and none of them use it.

ah..2ppaamm....
my dh and i are sold on the usefulness of models. i read with interest in another thread about how models involves letting the younger students understands how the sums are worked out instead of algebra. i tend to agree that while algebra is used in sec sch onwards, using models now helps normal kids to visualise.

2ppaamm:
Then, in real life, who sits down and calculate and show workings? We calculate in our heads and if the answer is correct, who cares how you get there? At the tertiary level, all these calculations are irrelevant because they would be considered simple, so what's up with the step by step, we can skip 10 steps and the prof will still understand us.

in some real professions, calculations and workings are very important. just because we did not see them does not mean that they do not exist. when disputes happened, every step of every working is important so do not write such skills off as irrelevant. normal school cater for normal students which makes up bulk of the workforce. not every student goes on to the university to skip 10 steps and have their prof mark them correct. my P2 still have classmates who cannot cope with P2 math cos they cannot understand the concept and i feel that teaching workings is a proper way to let these children learn. your kid is no doubt gifted in his own way, but so are other normal kids special to their own parents. the education system cannot be change to fit just a minor few so we as parents have to adjust our own expectations of the system and not blame it for its normalcy. on the whole, the system is still very much better than the rest. are our kids' future dictated by how this system works? i don't think so; it really depends on us; the parents.
2 cents; no offense.

Reply to How do teachers deal with visual spatial learners? on Sat, 06 Nov 2010 15:07:02 GMT

corneyAmber — Sat, 06 Nov 2010 15:07:02 GMT

pecalis:
2ppaamm:
Pecali and ksi, I guess you guys are really blessed. Whichever our child is, he has a special way of learning and that's his gifts. Being able to function both ways and not skewed to either does seem that they can adapt well.

Hehe.... probably going to see some minister material in your children... Er.. don't forget me when your children reach there.... buy me coffee hor. :celebrate:
No lah, don't have such expectations. If she could keep her room tidy and put things back after use or remember to do her hw and not last minute rushing thru after spending hrs reading books, I'll be very happy already:)

I agree with pecalis...if she can just do the regular things properly I am happy enough.