WHAT SHOULD I DO!

Reply to WHAT SHOULD I DO! on Sun, 22 May 2011 20:52:33 GMT

bigmomma123 — Sun, 22 May 2011 20:52:33 GMT

Reply to WHAT SHOULD I DO! on Sun, 15 May 2011 06:19:21 GMT

candy02sweet — Sun, 15 May 2011 06:19:21 GMT

Hi to all parents,

i see alot of discussion going on and i have read thru with great interest too.
I guess at the end of the day, all of us wants the best for our child.
and my feel is that all kids and different, there is no ONE RIGHT ANSWER, or THE BEST CENTRE, or THE BEST WAY to educate them. we have to analyse our childrens’ ability, confidence, strength, weakness, personality, etc etc, and see which centre can provide them with the best learning environment.

As many of you agree, interest should be the key factor, not exam results.
this goes the same for any other subject/sports.
For example, anyone can get their Grade 8 in piano, but it doens’t mean all of them become world-class musicians. these are the people who have the great interest, build on the knowledge and develop their own method/style of playing music.

Maths should be the same too, school teaches them one way of solving a question. if they can absorb them, then thats good, if not, then our job as parents is to find how best to help them. do u wanna kill the interest for the sake of that grade? i wouldnt…

talking about problem sums, i think everyone’s point is valid, it could be down to English comprehen… or logical reasoning, or whatever it may be, and so depending on why exactly this student is having problem with word problems, the approach should differ accordingly.

This is just my neutral point of view, not taking sides with any method of education, but just cos i feel that everyone here has a valid view, concerns and this is a sharing place

personally, i don’t quite like the MOE way of doing maths, i’d love our children to learn thru activities, play, real life experience, cos word problem is supposed to be like real life problems! if they can relate these problems to themselves, perhaps they could think of the solution better?

Cheers to all loving parents!

Reply to WHAT SHOULD I DO! on Sun, 24 Apr 2011 15:27:22 GMT

cimman — Sun, 24 Apr 2011 15:27:22 GMT

Rabbit02:

Lastly, reading a book is different from experiencing. Most children are not so patient to sit down to read a factual book. They may be able to read fictions but factual? kind of difficult.....

that is true. When I mentioned self taught, I was referring to the parent reading the book and teaching it to the child. The parent should find it easy to understand the book.
As for the concepts of Vedic Maths, I'm sure the speed calculations are based on deeper concepts, but they are not discussed in the book explicitly. I guess one can infer the underlying principles from the methods introduced, but that takes too much brain work.

So the students or parent would not know the fundamental concepts that Vedic Maths is based on. I doubt that Maths Monkey would go through the fundamental concepts as well. Thankfully though, one doesn't need to know the underlying concepts to get the benefits of Vedic Maths.

Reply to WHAT SHOULD I DO! on Tue, 19 Apr 2011 03:06:07 GMT

Rabbit02 — Tue, 19 Apr 2011 03:06:07 GMT

[quote="cimman"I had a look at Vedic Maths. While in theory, it does provide a fast calculation method, it does so only for a set of numbers that meets a specific criteria, ie. numbers close to a certain base, ie. 19 and 21, base 20. In practice, these rarely happens in problems. So the student has to go back to the old way of calculation. Not very useful for division, probably better for multiplication, which they have a method for widely differing numbers.[/quote]

I read up on vedic math too and I think you missed the fundamental point about Vedic Math. On first glance, it seemed to be pure speed calculations, but on deeper reading, there is a logic and pattern in the calculations which will lead one to understand math concepts, patterns and relationship. I am not an expert here, but I think there is more to Vedic Math than just speed calculations.

Also, problem solving is not all about analysis. A child will not be able to come out with the addition/multiplication/fraction sentence if the foundation is weak. Therefore, building foundation is still critical.

Having said that, I suppose each centre including Math Monkey will be their own strengths depending on the child’s learning issue.

Lastly, reading a book is different from experiencing. Most children are not so patient to sit down to read a factual book. They may be able to read fictions but factual? kind of difficult…

Reply to WHAT SHOULD I DO! on Mon, 18 Apr 2011 16:10:20 GMT

cimman — Mon, 18 Apr 2011 16:10:20 GMT

Pen88n:
Rabbit02,

Please do not be mistaken. I've never at any point in time suggested drilling a kid with worksheet for problem solving. What I have suggested is to move the kid away from a centre that deals only with foundation maths (computing +-x/), to somewhere (be it a centre / individual tutor) that can equip the kid with problem solving skills.

I know Maths Monkey teaches Vedic Maths and their strength is in faster computation based on some properties of numbers. Whether it moves on to teach kids analystical skills for problem solving I'm not sure. In fact, drilling in Maths is never the way to go as it kills interest. It is only thru' understanding, analysing and tryingb out new ways that the kid will develop the love for doing Maths problems and achieve the satisfaction of being able to ultimately solve it.

yep, problem solving skills is not about drilling but on how to recognize the particular problem type and using the appropriate method for that category of problem. Within each problem category, there are several permutations that needs to be understood as well.

I had a look at Vedic Maths. While in theory, it does provide a fast calculation method, it does so only for a set of numbers that meets a specific criteria, ie. numbers close to a certain base, ie. 19 and 21, base 20. In practice, these rarely happens in problems. So the student has to go back to the old way of calculation. Not very useful for division, probably better for multiplication, which they have a method for widely differing numbers.

If your child is self motivated, you don't really need Maths Monkey, just get a book on Vedic maths and it is self explanatory. The SpeedMaths series by FanLing is very similar to Vedic Maths concepts.

I'll rather spend the money on a center that teaches heruistics. Problem solving skills are more complex and requires a teacher to impart the analysis skills. Calculations skills are more straight forward and can be self taught.

Reply to WHAT SHOULD I DO! on Mon, 18 Apr 2011 15:55:12 GMT

cimman — Mon, 18 Apr 2011 15:55:12 GMT

greenbean2011:
after listening to comments here, scared ... so how to teach Maths fun or creative instead of drilling type, when young ?

I think both have their places. Drilling type questions are good for laying a good foundation for calculations. Once you move on to problem sums, then analysis takes over. The strong foundation in calculations that was done earlier will help the child avoid careless mistakes in calculations.

Reply to WHAT SHOULD I DO! on Mon, 18 Apr 2011 15:51:41 GMT

cimman — Mon, 18 Apr 2011 15:51:41 GMT

if problem sum is the weak point, then you’ll have to check if Maths Monkey teaches analysis. There are different hueristics involved and student should be taught each of these methods and when to apply them. Maybe you can supplement Maths Monkey with another enrichment center, one that teaches hueristics. That way, you can have your cake and eat it. Only down side is that you’ll have twice a week session on maths and logistics issues. Travelling to and from tuition centers are so time consuming.

Reply to WHAT SHOULD I DO! on Tue, 12 Apr 2011 15:16:49 GMT

greenbean2011 — Tue, 12 Apr 2011 15:16:49 GMT

after listening to comments here, scared … so how to teach Maths fun or creative instead of drilling type, when young ?

Reply to WHAT SHOULD I DO! on Tue, 05 Apr 2011 12:36:22 GMT

bigmomma123 — Tue, 05 Apr 2011 12:36:22 GMT

:celebrate: :celebrate: :celebrate:

Reply to WHAT SHOULD I DO! on Mon, 28 Mar 2011 10:09:39 GMT

Pen88n — Mon, 28 Mar 2011 10:09:39 GMT

Rabbit02:

I disagree. Sometimes, problem solving is not about worksheet drilling offered by some tuition centres. It is about analytical ability and I think it can be developed without having to drill a child in this. It should not be looked upon separately.

Rabbit02,

Please do not be mistaken. I've never at any point in time suggested drilling a kid with worksheet for problem solving. What I have suggested is to move the kid away from a centre that deals only with foundation maths (computing +-x/), to somewhere (be it a centre / individual tutor) that can equip the kid with problem solving skills.

I know Maths Monkey teaches Vedic Maths and their strength is in faster computation based on some properties of numbers. Whether it moves on to teach kids analystical skills for problem solving I'm not sure. In fact, drilling in Maths is never the way to go as it kills interest. It is only thru' understanding, analysing and tryingb out new ways that the kid will develop the love for doing Maths problems and achieve the satisfaction of being able to ultimately solve it.

Reply to WHAT SHOULD I DO! on Mon, 28 Mar 2011 09:54:41 GMT

Rabbit02 — Mon, 28 Mar 2011 09:54:41 GMT

Pen88n:
I can understand your dilemma. However, if you really sit down and analyse your gal's issue, it is actually very simple. She is doing foundation maths (to build the strong foundation of computation +-X/) at the Maths Monkey Centre you mentioned. However, at P4 now, she need to progress beyond foundation maths to problem solving. The centre is not equipping her with that skill.

The question you need to ask yourself is \"Is your girl's foundation in computing (calculating) good enough?\" so that you can stop the foundation building and move on to equip her with problem solving skills? Personally, I think this problem solving skill needs to start else you might face more issue in P5.

Hope this helps and good luck!

I disagree. Sometimes, problem solving is not about worksheet drilling offered by some tuition centres. It is about analytical ability and I think it can be developed without having to drill a child in this. It should not be looked upon separately.

Reply to WHAT SHOULD I DO! on Sun, 27 Mar 2011 12:03:49 GMT

Pen88n — Sun, 27 Mar 2011 12:03:49 GMT

bigmomma123:
my girl is practising papers, learning short cuts but not conventional problem sums.. thats why while she counts faster, and does mental math much better, she still doesn't do well at problem sums.

in a conventional tuition center, she will be forced to practice problem sums, hence improve. this is a math enrichment center which aims to teach other things.. that's why.

Bigmomma123,

I can understand your dilemma. However, if you really sit down and analyse your gal's issue, it is actually very simple. She is doing foundation maths (to build the strong foundation of computation +-X/) at the Maths Monkey Centre you mentioned. However, at P4 now, she need to progress beyond foundation maths to problem solving. The centre is not equipping her with that skill.

The question you need to ask yourself is \"Is your girl's foundation in computing (calculating) good enough?\" so that you can stop the foundation building and move on to equip her with problem solving skills? Personally, I think this problem solving skill needs to start else you might face more issue in P5.

Hope this helps and good luck!

Reply to WHAT SHOULD I DO! on Sun, 27 Mar 2011 11:41:28 GMT

Shoe — Sun, 27 Mar 2011 11:41:28 GMT

I think attitude change is priceless. I believe academic improvement will follow. My dd didn’t do that brilliantly in Term 1 when she was in P1 but because she was generally interested in learning, she picked up pace later on.

Reply to WHAT SHOULD I DO! on Fri, 18 Mar 2011 01:54:23 GMT

bigmomma123 — Fri, 18 Mar 2011 01:54:23 GMT

Rabbit02:
I understand your dilemna but if I am you i will put my child's interest before academic results because results cannot happen without interest.

yah i understd im sacrificing long term interest for short term gain - she's p4 now and i wanna make sure she can do well in psle..

Rabbit02:
If problem sums is the issue, then talk to the centre to see if they can offer any help.

good idea - i will speak to them.. my daughter's weakness is in prob sums.. she's improved alot in mcqs and short ans from math monkey's training.. just that prob sums really are heavy weightage.

im just curious - am i the only one to expect results improvement from enrichment centers? or should i be looking at other things e.g. attitude change instead?

Reply to WHAT SHOULD I DO! on Thu, 17 Mar 2011 08:37:34 GMT

sleepy — Thu, 17 Mar 2011 08:37:34 GMT

Rabbit02:
My fren's son was in Kumon and now he hated Kumon and Math. My fren is having a hard time getting her son to do Math. I dare not put my girl in Kumon after that....

Oh, that's bad !

I find Kumon very taxing for both parents & child. But it does give child a good foundation in Maths. Parents must know when to 'terminate' the programme. Too brief, no impact. Too long, wither interest.

I withdrawn mine in K2. She reached fraction level then. I asked her to take a break from doing worksheets. Spend that amount of time reading storybooks instead, more fruitful in my opinion

Reply to WHAT SHOULD I DO! on Wed, 16 Mar 2011 05:28:55 GMT

Rabbit02 — Wed, 16 Mar 2011 05:28:55 GMT

I understand your dilemna but if I am you i will put my child’s interest before academic results because results cannot happen without interest. If problem sums is the issue, then talk to the centre to see if they can offer any help. Putting her in Kumon or other drilling centres could be disastrous. You may or may not get the result you want, but it will surely lead her to hate Math again!

My fren’s son was in Kumon and now he hated Kumon and Math. My fren is having a hard time getting her son to do Math. I dare not put my girl in Kumon after that…

Do not sacrifice long term benefits for short term results (if any)…

Reply to WHAT SHOULD I DO! on Wed, 16 Mar 2011 03:33:57 GMT

corneyAmber — Wed, 16 Mar 2011 03:33:57 GMT

Bigmomma, you have to see if this increased in interest can be translated into self-learning. If it can, MOE-aligned training is no longer required.

Reply to WHAT SHOULD I DO! on Wed, 16 Mar 2011 01:12:27 GMT

Jennifer — Wed, 16 Mar 2011 01:12:27 GMT

bigmomma123:
my girl is practising papers, learning short cuts but not conventional problem sums.. thats why while she counts faster, and does mental math much better, she still doesn't do well at problem sums.

in a conventional tuition center, she will be forced to practice problem sums, hence improve. this is a math enrichment center which aims to teach other things.. that's why.

Prob sums need EL compreh skills. Try this at home: Get your dd to read aloud a prob sum qn to you. Does she speed read? Does she understand how to interpret the figures given in the qn?

I sent my P4 boy to a popular MA centre at the beginning of the year. The class size is 12 children to a tutor. I hv stopped the lessons as my boy came back still not knowing how to solve all prob sums in the worksheet. I find individual adult supervision is necessary for him, at least I can force him to read the qn slower and explain to me how to use those figures in the qn.

P4 prob sums are getting more \"wordy\". An impatient child might find it harder to understand the prob. Hence the need to cultivate the habit of reading the qn at a slower rate and understanding each sentence well before reading the next sentence.

So far, this method works for my impulsive boy.

Reply to WHAT SHOULD I DO! on Tue, 15 Mar 2011 14:17:58 GMT

FrekiWang — Tue, 15 Mar 2011 14:17:58 GMT

Based on my experience 20 years ago, interest plays a more important role in Maths studies, especially after your kid reaches secondary/jc level, those without interest will struggle to catch up even they may score very well in PSLE Maths…

Of course, you need to make sure she can survive in her PSLE first, but if there is only a 5 marks difference, I suggest you don’t destroy your girl’s interest or she will suffer in future.

Reply to WHAT SHOULD I DO! on Tue, 15 Mar 2011 11:44:50 GMT

sydney — Tue, 15 Mar 2011 11:44:50 GMT

Almost 10/10 primary school students with challenges in Math is because of problem sums. The problem sums complexity get exponentially more and more difficult from P3 onwards. I used to be able to help him at P3, but when it comes to P4, I am struggling even to understand what the question is trying to ask. When he was in P5, I finally outsourced. There are centres that specialises in problem sums that can help you. Talk to them and choose one that meet your needs.

Reply to WHAT SHOULD I DO! on Tue, 15 Mar 2011 07:14:35 GMT

bigmomma123 — Tue, 15 Mar 2011 07:14:35 GMT

my girl is practising papers, learning short cuts but not conventional problem sums… thats why while she counts faster, and does mental math much better, she still doesn’t do well at problem sums.

in a conventional tuition center, she will be forced to practice problem sums, hence improve. this is a math enrichment center which aims to teach other things… that’s why.

Reply to WHAT SHOULD I DO! on Tue, 15 Mar 2011 06:34:59 GMT

ANobleNerd — Tue, 15 Mar 2011 06:34:59 GMT

Interest in a subject would often translate into better grades in the long run.

However, in our \"instant result\"-orientated society, we prefer to see good grades now, whether the child grows an interest in the subject or not.

I think it'll be good to speak to your daughter, her school teacher, and the enrichment centre.

To your daughter, ask why her interest is not translating into better grades. Is it because she still don't understand the concepts taught in her school? Is it because of how the questions are asked? Find out what's creating the learning issue/poor grade instead of just thinking it's about interest.

To your daughter's school teacher, find out what he/she thinks is the issue with your daughter's grades. The teacher is usually able to pinpoint the issue to a certain degree; is it because of her daily work? Her focus in class? Is she usually distracted when being taught?

To the enrichment centre, perhaps you could bring your concern that her interest in Math isn't being translated into better grades. Perhaps her interest in Math is raised by a teacher in the school, and if that teacher speaks to her about her schoolwork, you daughter might be more motivated to do better in her schoolwork? Perhaps the centre might be able to help her see the linkages between her learning at the centre and the curriculum in school?

Reply to WHAT SHOULD I DO! on Mon, 14 Mar 2011 15:54:50 GMT

vlim — Mon, 14 Mar 2011 15:54:50 GMT

If I were u, I think I will do the following

A) if she wants to remain in the existing enrichment center, u have to monitor her daily school work and let her do assessment at home especially on those topics she is weak at

Or

B) if u have no time to coach her at all and her school result us below satisfactory, then u got to seriously consider changing her to another tuition center tt can help her to improve her maths…

Reply to WHAT SHOULD I DO! on Mon, 14 Mar 2011 15:41:54 GMT

saralim — Mon, 14 Mar 2011 15:41:54 GMT

Personally, when it comes to academic, I would put results above interest. Music and art is about interest. Academic subjects is all about results at the end. What primarily drives some kids to push themselves to be successful is a need and motivation to do well. Passion or interest may play a part but it is unlikely the primary reason for academic success.

You also have to analyse if your child likes Math Monkey or likes Math. I have a niece who likes solving math puzzles like soduko etc but dislike doing school math. Her school math results is nothing to shout about.