Help with model maths for P4 child

Reply to Help with model maths for P4 child on Thu, 24 Mar 2016 05:51:25 GMT

greentara — Thu, 24 Mar 2016 05:51:25 GMT

pirate:
In the end:

Yellow: UUU
Green : U

At the beginning:
Yellow: UUU+16
Green: U+16

Since there were twice as many yellow chairs as green chairs at the beginning:

UUU+16 = U+16 + U+16
UU = U+16
U = 16

Number of chairs in the end = 4U = 64 chairs

Thank-you for your solution... you have inspired me to come up with something similar.

In the End:
Green : C
Yellow: 3C

At the Beginning:
Green: C+16
Yellow: 3C+16

Since there were twice as many yellow chairs as green chairs at the Beginning:
3C+16 = (C+16) + (C+16)
3C+16 = 2C+32
3C-2C = 32-16
C = 16

Back to the End where:
Yellow: 3C
Green: C

Total no. of chairs at the End is therefore 3C+C = 3*16 + 16 = 64

Reply to Help with model maths for P4 child on Wed, 23 Mar 2016 02:51:47 GMT

pirate — Wed, 23 Mar 2016 02:51:47 GMT

Kiwi Aussie:
I have question like this:

There were twice as many yellow chairs as green chairs
In the hall. After 16 yellow chairs and 16 green chairs removed ,
There were thrice as many yellow chairs as green chairs.
How many chairs were there in the hall in the end?

I learnt to have the answer but just don't understand
But still blur how ppl get the answer. All kind soul please
Enlighten me

In the end:
Yellow: UUU
Green : U

At the beginning:
Yellow: UUU+16
Green: U+16

Since there were twice as many yellow chairs as green chairs at the beginning:

UUU+16 = U+16 + U+16
UU = U+16
U = 16

Number of chairs in the end = 4U = 64 chairs

Reply to Help with model maths for P4 child on Tue, 22 Mar 2016 05:19:32 GMT

Kiwi Aussie — Tue, 22 Mar 2016 05:19:32 GMT

I have question like this:

There were twice as many yellow chairs as green chairs
In the hall. After 16 yellow chairs and 16 green chairs removed ,
There were thrice as many yellow chairs as green chairs.
How many chairs were there in the hall in the end?

I learnt to have the answer but just don't understand
But still blur how ppl get the answer. All kind soul please
Enlighten me

Reply to Help with model maths for P4 child on Tue, 22 Mar 2016 05:13:21 GMT

Kiwi Aussie — Tue, 22 Mar 2016 05:13:21 GMT

I am Super weak in Maths since young. I am now very depressed over my p4 Son 's Maths.

Anybody here can give me any advice where can I start learning Maths especially
Model drawing. :frustrated:

Reply to Help with model maths for P4 child on Mon, 24 Jun 2013 23:07:10 GMT

Dr.039879Ta — Mon, 24 Jun 2013 23:07:10 GMT

cimman:
Niedino:

1. How is his comprehension skills? If he is facing difficulty in his reading comprehension, it might be that he is not understanding what the question requires him to do.

Niedino
yes, I too wondered about comprehension skills. How did he do for his English paper in Comprehension OE ?

if his English comprehension is alright, the next step would be to translate english to mathematical symbols. This is a skill that needs to be taught. For example, Tom was given $5 on top of his pocket money of $2. -> $2 + $5
It might seem very simple for us, but for someone not used to translating words to mathematical symbols, it is very confusing.

maths qn are direct opposite of English qn. there is nothing flowery abt the structure. every sentence gives info.

e,g

A and B has 120 eggs. After A gave B 10eggs, B has 3 times as much as A. How many eggs has A at the beginning?

Sentence 1: A and B has 120 eggs.
Data is given. total =120.

Sentence 2: After A gave B 10eggs, B has 3 times as much as A.
there was a transfer by A, and B will change too as B receives. The after relationship is B->3 units and A>1units.

B |-----|-----|-----|
A |-----|

since total unchanged, 1u = 120 /4 =30.
since A gave 10, then A will get back his 10 to return to 'before' state,
thus
A=30+10.

any qn that exhibits a relationship, a model can be drawn, that is the starting pt to solve the problem. Thus it is important that your child can recognise a relationship (trust me, most kids don't....and a lot of teachers don't too!)

Reply to Help with model maths for P4 child on Mon, 24 Jun 2013 22:56:48 GMT

Dr.039879Ta — Mon, 24 Jun 2013 22:56:48 GMT

a lot of p4 pupils draw model because they are expected to in schools. But MOST students DO NOT look at what they have drawn to solve the qn!

you need to ensure that ur child is looking at the model and knows how to use it as a representation to the problem.

All questions that can be solved with model can be solved using algebra… because both algebra n model are used to solve problems that exhibit relationship. algebra is abstract but models is visual.

you need to ensure that your child can see the relationship before they draw the model, otherwise the model will be a guesswork(or ur child may be able to draw it but cant understand it)

Reply to Help with model maths for P4 child on Mon, 16 Apr 2012 12:32:46 GMT

Michell0328 — Mon, 16 Apr 2012 12:32:46 GMT

no Q for me? ask me now!

Reply to Help with model maths for P4 child on Mon, 16 Apr 2012 12:30:30 GMT

Michaelia0816 — Mon, 16 Apr 2012 12:30:30 GMT

but P4 does not learn algebra only P6!

Reply to Help with model maths for P4 child on Mon, 16 Apr 2012 12:23:40 GMT

Michell0328 — Mon, 16 Apr 2012 12:23:40 GMT

are u pri ____?

if you are lower than pri 5,u should not learn algebra ok!:)

Reply to Help with model maths for P4 child on Fri, 05 Aug 2011 16:57:55 GMT

sunnydays — Fri, 05 Aug 2011 16:57:55 GMT

Maybe you can try to give your child simpler problem sums questions first then slowly give him those harder ones. Also, it would be good that you get a good Math tutor to focus on his section C with him.

Reply to Help with model maths for P4 child on Mon, 04 Jul 2011 02:46:43 GMT

nkthen — Mon, 04 Jul 2011 02:46:43 GMT

Thanks for all the feedback. Let me try and see what I can do… If you have a blog that teaches model, give me the site!

Reply to Help with model maths for P4 child on Tue, 28 Jun 2011 03:00:26 GMT

cimman — Tue, 28 Jun 2011 03:00:26 GMT

Niedino:

1. How is his comprehension skills? If he is facing difficulty in his reading comprehension, it might be that he is not understanding what the question requires him to do.

Niedino

yes, I too wondered about comprehension skills. How did he do for his English paper in Comprehension OE ?

if his English comprehension is alright, the next step would be to translate english to mathematical symbols. This is a skill that needs to be taught. For example, Tom was given $5 on top of his pocket money of $2. -> $2 + $5
It might seem very simple for us, but for someone not used to translating words to mathematical symbols, it is very confusing.

Reply to Help with model maths for P4 child on Tue, 28 Jun 2011 02:54:00 GMT

cimman — Tue, 28 Jun 2011 02:54:00 GMT

PiggyLalala:
ksi:
The other thing is model diagram is only a means, not the end. So while finding out his issue with problem sums, put model diagram aside. Once you know the root, model is used to assist explanation. If model is put as the main goal, and if he has a fear for models, it becomes a mental block.

If he understands algebra better, why not try that as well? There are many roads leading to Rome.
Yup, most of the questions on ratios and percentages can be solved easily by simple algebraic equations. If a child has great difficulties in models, then the 'algrebra approach' may be a good alternative.

while a number of modelling problems can be solved using algebra, there are quite a number where modelling is much easier and faster to solve, and some, only modelling works. There is no getting away from models. Maybe can try the Unit Transfer Method, where there is no drawing.

Reply to Help with model maths for P4 child on Mon, 27 Jun 2011 14:51:45 GMT

Niedino — Mon, 27 Jun 2011 14:51:45 GMT

nkthen:
My son is an average student in his studies and I'm fine with that. I want him to enjoy his childhood and not bury himself in studies.

As such, I want to pinpoint the weak areas of his work. So far I manage to get right in his English and Chinese.

For his maths, I have pinpointed that his weak area is in word problems, ie. Section C.

You see, he can consistently score 70%+ in Section A, consistently score 60%+ in Section B, but score as low as ZERO for Section C!!!!

I have narrowed down the problem itself and it is aligned with what the teachers has told me: My son is weak in model diagram.

For some reasons, he cannot visualize the word problems into diagrams. And, his logical deduction of problems in math is very weak too.

All I need to do to enable him to visualize the problems, do you have any recommendations?

Hi Nkthen,

I have been toying around with the idea of blogging about the model method. I can see that your child is strong in the computational (four operations, conversion etc ...) but weak in the application (word problems) part of Math. Just a few things you might want to take note of.

1. How is his comprehension skills? If he is facing difficulty in his reading comprehension, it might be that he is not understanding what the question requires him to do.

2. If he is doing fine in his comprehension skills, then perhaps he does not understand how to solve word problems. There are many ways to solve Math problems, such as making a list, drawing a table, drawing a diagram. I suggest teaching your child to identify which method suits which type of question.

3. Lastly, after learning to identify the method, it is also good to break it down into steps for him. Most word problems consist of method marks and answer marks, so it would be good if he can score the method marks for his working, if he cannot get the correct answer as of yet. With more practice and confidence, he will eventually get it right.

Hope it helps

Niedino

Reply to Help with model maths for P4 child on Fri, 24 Jun 2011 12:23:05 GMT

fastcar — Fri, 24 Jun 2011 12:23:05 GMT

I brought Bar Modelling, its really helped me understand a lot in using model concept to teach my child.

Reply to Help with model maths for P4 child on Thu, 09 Jun 2011 06:02:19 GMT

PiggyLalala — Thu, 09 Jun 2011 06:02:19 GMT

ksi:
The other thing is model diagram is only a means, not the end. So while finding out his issue with problem sums, put model diagram aside. Once you know the root, model is used to assist explanation. If model is put as the main goal, and if he has a fear for models, it becomes a mental block.

If he understands algebra better, why not try that as well? There are many roads leading to Rome.

Yup, most of the questions on ratios and percentages can be solved easily by simple algebraic equations. If a child has great difficulties in models, then the 'algrebra approach' may be a good alternative.

Reply to Help with model maths for P4 child on Thu, 09 Jun 2011 01:49:26 GMT

CoffeeCat — Thu, 09 Jun 2011 01:49:26 GMT

Hmm, what’s his background with modelling? When was he taught modelling? Did he draw model before p4?

I won’t be surprised if he happen to be a beginner. When I was first taught modelling in p4 I didn’t grasp it immediately too. Maybe
his modelling foundation is just weak.

Reply to Help with model maths for P4 child on Thu, 09 Jun 2011 01:27:15 GMT

corneyAmber — Thu, 09 Jun 2011 01:27:15 GMT

The other thing is model diagram is only a means, not the end. So while finding out his issue with problem sums, put model diagram aside. Once you know the root, model is used to assist explanation. If model is put as the main goal, and if he has a fear for models, it becomes a mental block.

If he understands algebra better, why not try that as well? There are many roads leading to Rome.

Reply to Help with model maths for P4 child on Thu, 09 Jun 2011 01:11:54 GMT

PiggyLalala — Thu, 09 Jun 2011 01:11:54 GMT

In such cases, I would think that the child cannot understand the teacher's teaching. It could be the teacher is too fast in her teaching or her teaching method does not suit the child. Maybe getting a good tutor and have a one to one tuition with the child will help the child to understand the concepts better. But where to find good tutor?

Reply to Help with model maths for P4 child on Wed, 08 Jun 2011 17:21:48 GMT

Pen88n — Wed, 08 Jun 2011 17:21:48 GMT

I would deduce from your post that your son actually simply do not understand the problem sum question and is unable to extract the required information to even take the 1st step to draw the model.

Instead of continuing to coach him on the P4 problem sums that require more complex model drawing, what you can do is to start from square 1 for model drawing and add on from there:
1. Pull out the simple problem sums and make him do the model drawing from there. These can be just using simple ±x/ computation only.
2. If he is able to do so, start putting in additional info (more numbers) into the simple problem sums slowly. He will have to change / redraw his model to reflect this new info.
3. Move on to teach him additional modelling skills, such as "equalise" the parts, etc.

You can move thru’ step 1 and 2 very quickly if you find his foundation ok. From step 3 onwards, it will require you to learn and understand the concepts before you can find the best way to put thru’ to him.

Hope this helps.

Reply to Help with model maths for P4 child on Wed, 08 Jun 2011 16:39:14 GMT

nkthen — Wed, 08 Jun 2011 16:39:14 GMT

CoffeeCat:
nkthen:

You see, he can consistently score 70%+ in Section A, consistently score 60%+ in Section B, but score as low as ZERO for Section C!!!!
consistently scored 70+ and 60+? are the marks loss due to carelessness or simply lack of practise?
Without any clearer information, this gives the impression that he might be weak in maths.

nkthen:
For some reasons, he cannot visualize the word problems into diagrams. And, his logical deduction of problems in math is very weak too.
Once again without any further information, I m inclined to think that his inability to visualize the word problems into diagrams has something to do with his weak deduction skills.
When u mention visualizing, you are looking at the process of translating the information given in a question to a model diagram. This may requires some logical deduction.

OK, to clarify, when it comes to simple, direct maths questions, he can answer most of them. They are mostly found in Section A and B. Section C is the one that he finds it hard to do. We have practiced many times but he still have problems doing the very first step, which is to draw the model.

Reply to Help with model maths for P4 child on Wed, 08 Jun 2011 16:24:13 GMT

CoffeeCat — Wed, 08 Jun 2011 16:24:13 GMT

nkthen:

You see, he can consistently score 70%+ in Section A, consistently score 60%+ in Section B, but score as low as ZERO for Section C!!!!

consistently scored 70+ and 60+? are the marks loss due to carelessness or simply lack of practise?
Without any clearer information, this gives the impression that he might be weak in maths.

nkthen:
For some reasons, he cannot visualize the word problems into diagrams. And, his logical deduction of problems in math is very weak too.

Once again without any further information, I m inclined to think that his inability to visualize the word problems into diagrams has something to do with his weak deduction skills.
When u mention visualizing, you are looking at the process of translating the information given in a question to a model diagram. This may requires some logical deduction.

Reply to Help with model maths for P4 child on Wed, 08 Jun 2011 14:37:42 GMT

corneyAmber — Wed, 08 Jun 2011 14:37:42 GMT

Actually it starts by understanding the question. If the question cannot be understood, it would be hard to interpret it into a diagram.

Reply to Help with model maths for P4 child on Wed, 08 Jun 2011 14:34:49 GMT

acforfamily — Wed, 08 Jun 2011 14:34:49 GMT

Have you tried asking him to break up the questions into parts first? He could be stumped by the mass of words and does not know where to start.