<![CDATA[Who opened the floodgates to immigrants?]]>hi, if need, pls merge this with \"5.18 M population\" thread.


..Who opened the floodgates to immigrants?

By Seah Chiang Nee
.PostsWebsite .By Seah Chiang Nee | SingaporeScene – 10 hours ago..


Who opened the floodgates in Singapore that let in three new waves of immigrants during the past 24 years?

Most Singaporeans probably feel they know the answer but at least one serious analyst has pointed the finger, not at their influential ex-Minister Mentor, but at Emeritus Senior Minister Goh Chok Tong.

Although a few people had privately talked about it, this was the first time it was articulated publicly that the mild-mannered Goh's role was more than a passive one.

A regular contributor on the republic's history and current affairs, Chua Suntong wrote in The Online Citizen that Goh was the starting force behind the influx of foreign PRs.

The ill-prepared policy, one of modern Singapore's most important, has been the cause of a number of problems for locals, ranging from jobs and public transport to housing and education.

It also led to one of the worst election declines for the ruling party.

In his article, Chua said that as Singapore's fertility rate fell to 1.4 in 1987, Goh — who was then Deputy Prime Minister and due to succeed Lee Kuan Yew — started a pro-immigration policy.

Chua, who describes himself as a home-grown Singaporean, is a regular commentator on finance, history, languages and logistics.

Pointing the finger

He alleged it was Goh who had openly promoted mass immigration in 1987 when he was DPM. There has been no official confirmation from the two retired leaders.

During the past 20 years (1991-2010) some 726,768 PR permits were issued — mostly to foreign professionals, managers, executives and technicians (PMETs), who were directly competing with middle-class Singaporeans.

\"Goh regularly used the term 'foreign talents' (FTs) to describe foreign PMETs and foreign-born students in local higher-level academic institutions,\" the columnist said.

At one time, he also strongly nudged as many PRs as possible to take up Singapore citizenship.

Chua's article was an analysis of the \"Sept 2011 Population Report in the Larger Context\" issued by the Institute of Policy Studies (IPS), a think tank.

\"After promoting foreign immigration without really defining its meaning from 1987 to 2011, the ESM relinquished his Cabinet position,\" Chua wrote.

\"He expressed hopes that a younger Cabinet would be able to carry Singapore forward in a more difficult and complex situation. His policies probably caused this situation.\"

The IPS report attributed no names of leaders responsible, but the writer indicated several times that Goh had been pushing it for a long period.

Several waves

It opened the door for 20,000-plus new PRs a year from 1987 to 1997 (up from 8,000 average). The figures rose steadily in two more waves until 2005-2010 when between 50,000 and 80,000 arrived every year.

\"The ESM remained in the Cabinet after stepping down from the prime ministership in 2004,\" Chua added. The tempo of PR arrivals increased.

What he said of the role of the former well-liked Prime Minister has come as a surprise to Singaporeans, who had all along believed the immigration policy was solely Lee's idea.

Chua said that even after he handed over leadership to PM Lee Hsien Loong, he had continued to work on the programme as Senior Minister, and PRs kept coming in.

In another comment, social activist Ravi Philemon also said that it was the government under Goh which relaxed the stricter yester-years immigration policy of Singapore.

In fact, the excessive arrivals resulted in Lee Kuan Yew warning him that 60,000 new residents a year was \"politically indigestible\" and that 30,000 was more realistic.

Singaporeans generally read with some disbelief that Lee had allowed such an important decision as mass immigration to be decided by Goh.

The majority of informed Singaporeans still feel the original initiative had come from the founding leader himself — and that Goh was only a very convinced implementer.

A minority opinion, however, was that Goh and, subsequently, Prime Minister Lee Hsien Loong were just carrying out Lee's ambition to have a six million to seven million population by 2030.

Setting the record straight

At that time, Lee had frequently been telling people that his successors were calling the shots and running Singapore and that he was merely — as Minister Mentor — giving advice on the side. It wasn't always taken seriously.

\"The truth will emerge one day as to who really made the call to let in so many foreign settlers without adequate preparation,\" said a retired businessman and strong admirer of Lee.

\"In the event that Lee was only minimally responsible for the excess, then it is good that someone puts it on record before he passes on. Otherwise, it will not be fair to him.\"

That was a period when most People's Action Party (PAP) leaders were pro-immigration, including both the two Lees. It is only now that the numbers are being cut back.

Lee Senior had said it allowed Singapore \"to punch above its weight\". The difference was, of course, how big a figure.

Three years ago, Lee signalled a redirection, saying he now preferred an optimum population of 5.5 million — instead of 6.5 million.

Others like former PAP MP Dr Tan Hui Heng had even called for a \"big bang\" approach in doubling manpower.

Tan, in fact, suggested admitting not only the highly talented, but also those with lower and intermediate skills, arguing that a big bang approach would prevent erosion of asset values.

The new young arrivals, Goh had hoped, would make up for Singapore's baby shortfall.

The story has not ended. More foreign PRs will likely arrive in this migrant society — but staggered over a longer period.

A former Reuters correspondent and newspaper editor, the writer is now a freelance columnist writing on general trends in Singapore. This post first appeared on his blog http://www.littlespeck.com on 12 November 2011...

]]>https://forum.kiasuparents.com/topic/28158/who-opened-the-floodgates-to-immigrantsRSS for NodeTue, 21 Apr 2026 16:34:20 GMTWed, 16 Nov 2011 14:53:50 GMT60<![CDATA[Reply to Who opened the floodgates to immigrants? on Thu, 22 Dec 2011 10:47:11 GMT]]>edited…

]]>https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/670208https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/670208Thu, 22 Dec 2011 10:47:11 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Who opened the floodgates to immigrants? on Thu, 22 Dec 2011 05:30:13 GMT]]>

3Boys:
Oppsgal:

[quote=\"daddy2007\"]Hard to blame the transport companies for hiring foreigners. How many Singaporeans are willing to work as bus captain?


You mean Singaporeans these days will NOT do a job if its low pay and has long hours? If so, we truly deserve to get our behinds kicked.

[/quote]hi boss'

wow. working 16 hours a day for months and years?

what kind of job is this....

maybe you can PM me.

I am from the last year of Generation X, born in 1979.... so we are a bit more soft.

]]>https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/669790https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/669790Thu, 22 Dec 2011 05:30:13 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Who opened the floodgates to immigrants? on Tue, 20 Dec 2011 01:07:41 GMT]]>

peapot:
I m just wondering, if Singaporeans cherry pick their jobs then how do most of them afford the daily expenses, the car and house. Are there so many jobs that pay well to go around? Is it because our economy is stable which allows us to choose only what we want?

the next time someone come to fix / service your airconds, talk to the workers and find out more

you can confirm it yourself

]]>https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/666879https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/666879Tue, 20 Dec 2011 01:07:41 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Who opened the floodgates to immigrants? on Tue, 20 Dec 2011 01:03:37 GMT]]>I m just wondering, if Singaporeans cherry pick their jobs then how do most of them afford the daily expenses, the car and house. Are there so many jobs that pay well to go around? Is it because our economy is stable which allows us to choose only what we want?

]]>https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/666872https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/666872Tue, 20 Dec 2011 01:03:37 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Who opened the floodgates to immigrants? on Mon, 19 Dec 2011 14:37:36 GMT]]>

Oppsgal:
daddy2007:

Hard to blame the transport companies for hiring foreigners. How many Singaporeans are willing to work as bus captain?


Depends how they ATTRACT Singaporeans to join bus captain. If pay not that much and have to work long hours, then how to attract them to join?

Actually when I read this again, I am just completely appalled.

I started work 18 years ago with a professional qualification. Back then we were so lowly paid, less than what a bus captain earns these days, and I worked 16 hour days with one weekend off a month. This went on for years. I was in a professional job, but could not buy a car until I had worked for 6 years and pooled resources with my then fiancee (now DW).

You mean Singaporeans these days will NOT do a job if its low pay and has long hours? If so, we truly deserve to get our behinds kicked.

]]>https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/666685https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/666685Mon, 19 Dec 2011 14:37:36 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Who opened the floodgates to immigrants? on Mon, 19 Dec 2011 13:35:49 GMT]]>

3Boys:
Chenonceau:



The CEO's pay can be a little less? 😄

Won't go far enough. Take the CEO's pay down by $500,000 per annum, for instance, divide that by say 500 bus captains. That's $1000 per annum increase, or about $80 per month.

Any Singaporean takers for $80 increment?

Invariably in the flatter societies (like Finland), its partly due to the higher earners being moderated, but also largely due to blue collar jobs being relatively high wage. That translates into high overall costs for businesses and consumers. The one week I spent in Sweden and Denmark were real eye openers on how eye-wateringly expensive everyday mundane things could be in those societies. If you think a cab ride in Singapore is expensive, try Stockholm....

or try Geneva

]]>https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/666639https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/666639Mon, 19 Dec 2011 13:35:49 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Who opened the floodgates to immigrants? on Mon, 19 Dec 2011 09:10:48 GMT]]>I don’t propose that Singapore be like Sweden. First of all, I am not blonde with blue eyes. Next, we don’t have Norway and Finland as neighbours. Third, we don’t have lots of lakes and woods to retreat to in times of adversity. In any case, who thinks the Swedish model is all that its talked up to be? Saab has gone broke, and Volvo is now owned by…Geely, our friendly automaker from 中国。You couldn’t make cars in Sweden easily, not for that price of labour.

]]>https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/666448https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/666448Mon, 19 Dec 2011 09:10:48 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Who opened the floodgates to immigrants? on Mon, 19 Dec 2011 09:02:22 GMT]]>

Chenonceau:


The CEO's pay can be a little less? 😄
Won't go far enough. Take the CEO's pay down by $500,000 per annum, for instance, divide that by say 500 bus captains. That's $1000 per annum increase, or about $80 per month.

Any Singaporean takers for $80 increment?

Invariably in the flatter societies (like Finland), its partly due to the higher earners being moderated, but also largely due to blue collar jobs being relatively high wage. That translates into high overall costs for businesses and consumers. The one week I spent in Sweden and Denmark were real eye openers on how eye-wateringly expensive everyday mundane things could be in those societies. If you think a cab ride in Singapore is expensive, try Stockholm....

]]>https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/666437https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/666437Mon, 19 Dec 2011 09:02:22 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Who opened the floodgates to immigrants? on Mon, 19 Dec 2011 08:47:21 GMT]]>

3Boys:
Oppsgal:

[quote=\"daddy2007\"]Hard to blame the transport companies for hiring foreigners. How many Singaporeans are willing to work as bus captain?


Depends how they ATTRACT Singaporeans to join bus captain. If pay not that much and have to work long hours, then how to attract them to join?

So are you willing to pay higher bus fares so that we can pay higher and attract local drivers? If not, who should pay for it then?[/quote]The CEO's pay can be a little less? 😄

]]>https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/666422https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/666422Mon, 19 Dec 2011 08:47:21 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Who opened the floodgates to immigrants? on Mon, 19 Dec 2011 08:15:48 GMT]]>

pepper spice:

Yes, in the past, just hop on bus and tell driver, \"Uncle I want to go Funan, tell me when I reach, can? Thank you.\"
Yes yes those were the days. We will try to sit near him so that he can alert us. Sometimes if where we are going is not on the bus uncle's route, he will even direct us to which correct bus to take. Nostalgia. So now is it very few of these uncles and mostly PRC men who will get lost and need to be directed by passengers or simply can't give advice for his own bus route? Where's the basic training? Our time's Singaporean bus drivers must be old uncles now and retiring in peace. Maybe they can be hired at minimal fee to be bus consultants onboard .... Haha jkjk.

]]>https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/666393https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/666393Mon, 19 Dec 2011 08:15:48 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Who opened the floodgates to immigrants? on Mon, 19 Dec 2011 08:01:50 GMT]]>

Oppsgal:
daddy2007:

Hard to blame the transport companies for hiring foreigners. How many Singaporeans are willing to work as bus captain?


Depends how they ATTRACT Singaporeans to join bus captain. If pay not that much and have to work long hours, then how to attract them to join?

So are you willing to pay higher bus fares so that we can pay higher and attract local drivers? If not, who should pay for it then?

]]>https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/666380https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/666380Mon, 19 Dec 2011 08:01:50 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Who opened the floodgates to immigrants? on Mon, 19 Dec 2011 07:51:07 GMT]]>

daddy2007:
Hard to blame the transport companies for hiring foreigners. How many Singaporeans are willing to work as bus captain?

Depends how they ATTRACT Singaporeans to join bus captain. If pay not that much and have to work long hours, then how to attract them to join?

]]>https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/666357https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/666357Mon, 19 Dec 2011 07:51:07 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Who opened the floodgates to immigrants? on Mon, 19 Dec 2011 06:28:49 GMT]]>Hard to blame the transport companies for hiring foreigners. How many Singaporeans are willing to work as bus captain?

]]>https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/666280https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/666280Mon, 19 Dec 2011 06:28:49 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Who opened the floodgates to immigrants? on Sun, 18 Dec 2011 04:54:28 GMT]]>Same thing here. I took bus from Bukit Merah, wanting to go to Funan IT Mall. To be double sure, I confirm with PRC driver, got go Funan hor? He blur. Got stop at Hill Street hor? The fire station there, urm, urm, 消防局? Also blur, he mumbled something in Mandarin. 你有经过克拉码头 (Clarke Quay) 对吗? By then, the bus already passed by Chinatown on way to Clarke Quay, no need to ask oredi.


Yes, in the past, just hop on bus and tell driver, "Uncle I want to go Funan, tell me when I reach, can? Thank you."

]]>https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/665473https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/665473Sun, 18 Dec 2011 04:54:28 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Who opened the floodgates to immigrants? on Mon, 12 Dec 2011 12:03:09 GMT]]>

tutormum:
Just want to :stompfeet: :mad: :rant:

Was in Chinatown and wanted to go to Bras Basah Complex. I asked the bus driver of No. 33 if the bus goes there as I thought it does but wanted to be 100% sure. He is definitely from China and noting that, I repeated my question in Chinese as I know the Chinese name for BBC. Instead, he kept saying that he's going straight. It seems that all he knew is the bus route :faint: If they can't speak English, the decent thing to do is teach them the Chinese names of landmarks and roads. If taxi drivers are tested on their knowledge on Singapore roads and landmarks, why bus drivers aren't? Gone are the days when we can just hop on the bus and say \"Uncle, I want to go to XXX\" and he would tell you when to alight. :nunchuk:

Haha! I have exactly the same kind of encounter as you before. Another time even funny, I asked him how much was the fare to the end of the terminal interchange in Mandarin, he answered ＂不是很贵啦＂and full stop!! :mad:

Didn't the bus company give them basic training??

]]>https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/660797https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/660797Mon, 12 Dec 2011 12:03:09 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Who opened the floodgates to immigrants? on Mon, 12 Dec 2011 11:57:49 GMT]]>

pepper spice:
I was at a bank. The customer in the next counter is a PRC youth (22 years old). He wanted to apply for some debit card, I think, but could not understand a word of English. Naturally, he could not fill in the application form. The teller kindly helped him to fill in his particulars of name, birth date etc, using his passport. But when the teller reached the part on “highest educational level”, she did not know how to translate that into Chinese and so asked PRC youth in English “你的highest educational level是什么？The PRC youth shook his head. The teller look left, look right for help, so I ventured to help translate into “最高学历“。 The PRC man replied “大专”. Later I heard the teller asking the PRC youth very softly, 为什么你读到大专却不会英语，那你怎么在这里工作?

On another occasion, on a bus, a PRC woman asked another passenger (a local) where to alight to get to the community hospital in Toa Payoh. The passenger was not sure, so she suggested that the PRC woman ask the bus driver, but the PRC woman said she couldn’t speak English and the bus driver is a Malay.
Yesterday, I had my lunch at a small eatery in Chinatown. The next table was a big group of PRC uncles, talking loudly in their Beijing accent. The stallholder who made my bowl of laksa is also a PRC. Next to the eatery were 2 other stalls selling 麻辣面， 刀削面。
I believe I am not alone in this feeling, that I am a foreigner in this country that I had fondly called home in the past. It is now quite an alien home, no wonder, many of my friends are making plans to retire overseas.
You are never alone to feel that way 😄
I remember i went to watch NDP parade nearby and surrounding me were majority from China and India. What hurted me very badly was during the saying of pledge? I was proud to recite the pledge but just have the kind of mix feeling, is this still my home?

Anyway, after that incident, I prefer to stay home and watch.

I enjoyed the election rallies a lot because at least most of the crowds there are true Singaporean that give you the home feeling.

]]>https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/660792https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/660792Mon, 12 Dec 2011 11:57:49 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Who opened the floodgates to immigrants? on Mon, 12 Dec 2011 07:55:11 GMT]]>

dovetail:
You are right Joule, I shouldn't complain. I have a choice. These days, there's not much value for money from the cooked food outside. Must try to cook at home more often.

You always got a choice, besides, don't blame these immigrants, they are here to escape their own country....if you want to blame, blame the people that allowed them to be brought in....in 2016 you have another choice, make it a good one... 😃

]]>https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/660559https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/660559Mon, 12 Dec 2011 07:55:11 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Who opened the floodgates to immigrants? on Mon, 12 Dec 2011 02:22:55 GMT]]>

Oppsgal:
Anyone seen the news on the bus driver go on a trip of 2 hours with the passengers guiding the way back to the right route?


😂 So how they are charged? Hope not charge as per distance.
the passengers should be compensated for the 2 hours loss because what if they were on the way to work/school/important appointments??

]]>https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/660315https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/660315Mon, 12 Dec 2011 02:22:55 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Who opened the floodgates to immigrants? on Mon, 12 Dec 2011 01:28:34 GMT]]>Anyone seen the news on the bus driver go on a trip of 2 hours with the passengers guiding the way back to the right route?


😂 So how they are charged? Hope not charge as per distance.

]]>https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/660260https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/660260Mon, 12 Dec 2011 01:28:34 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Who opened the floodgates to immigrants? on Sat, 10 Dec 2011 07:52:18 GMT]]>Pangyx,


Your long post was very interesting.

The rentals in Singapore are so high, it's no wonder the stuff from the retail store are so expensive.

Singaporeans really pay thru' their nose for stuff. My hubby got me a CBTL coffee maker for Xmas. It was on discount, even then it's like $100 more expensive than if you buy in US plus shipping. You buy here only for the warranty, I guess. The owner of CBTL are Singapore people some more, so bad :razz:

Nowadays, I buy more things online. My Nordic fish oil cost HALF the price I get from retail store here. I get many dollars of discount from buying books online too.

]]>https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/659486https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/659486Sat, 10 Dec 2011 07:52:18 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Who opened the floodgates to immigrants? on Sat, 10 Dec 2011 07:48:38 GMT]]>You are right Joule, I shouldn’t complain. I have a choice. These days, there’s not much value for money from the cooked food outside. Must try to cook at home more often.

]]>https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/659484https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/659484Sat, 10 Dec 2011 07:48:38 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Who opened the floodgates to immigrants? on Sat, 10 Dec 2011 01:15:56 GMT]]>talking abt food courts…I think it is good Kopitiam tried to hire more Singaporeans instead of PRC.


The cleaners aunties at Kopitiam Compass Point are very hardworking and fast. Their culteries are well washed too.

]]>https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/659304https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/659304Sat, 10 Dec 2011 01:15:56 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Who opened the floodgates to immigrants? on Fri, 09 Dec 2011 09:42:39 GMT]]>I was at a bank. The customer in the next counter is a PRC youth (22 years old). He wanted to apply for some debit card, I think, but could not understand a word of English. Naturally, he could not fill in the application form. The teller kindly helped him to fill in his particulars of name, birth date etc, using his passport. But when the teller reached the part on “highest educational level”, she did not know how to translate that into Chinese and so asked PRC youth in English “你的highest educational level是什么？The PRC youth shook his head. The teller look left, look right for help, so I ventured to help translate into “最高学历“。 The PRC man replied “大专”. Later I heard the teller asking the PRC youth very softly, 为什么你读到大专却不会英语，那你怎么在这里工作?

On another occasion, on a bus, a PRC woman asked another passenger (a local) where to alight to get to the community hospital in Toa Payoh. The passenger was not sure, so she suggested that the PRC woman ask the bus driver, but the PRC woman said she couldn’t speak English and the bus driver is a Malay.
Yesterday, I had my lunch at a small eatery in Chinatown. The next table was a big group of PRC uncles, talking loudly in their Beijing accent. The stallholder who made my bowl of laksa is also a PRC. Next to the eatery were 2 other stalls selling 麻辣面， 刀削面。
I believe I am not alone in this feeling, that I am a foreigner in this country that I had fondly called home in the past. It is now quite an alien home, no wonder, many of my friends are making plans to retire overseas.

]]>https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/658961https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/658961Fri, 09 Dec 2011 09:42:39 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Who opened the floodgates to immigrants? on Fri, 09 Dec 2011 08:57:42 GMT]]>

dovetail:
These days, there are many prc's serving in food court stores. Once I ordered Chendol but that woman put so much ice until it was more like ice- kachang. :slapshead: Tasted lousy too. Another time, ordered Korean BBQ chicken set for my dd but it looked like it has chili. Told the woman perhaps she got it wrong, that I wanted BBQ version. She stared at me and asked me what is BBQ. :stupid:


Why do you think they don't quite like to integrate with the local Chinese? I often feel that they are quite aloof and tend to put on their guard when they talk to the locals. We are after all, the same race, right?
Hai yah. like that oso want to complain.

Lao Goh says that if there is no PRC serving at food court then food court prices go up because local don't want to do this job...

I don't want 2.50 ice kachang leh...

]]>https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/658914https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/658914Fri, 09 Dec 2011 08:57:42 GMT