twilight:

slmkhoo:

If the child is mature and really knows what she wants to do, I can see the argument for letting her do it sooner. But I think it's a rare child who knows that at 17yo. And especially for humanities/social sciences/law subjects, maturity does count for a lot. Younger students usually don't do as well as older ones, and mature students usually do well as they can draw on experience of life as well. I think students who excel at pure sciences and maths are probably better candidates for going to unversity early.

meinteel:

USgrad:

[quote=\"meinteel\"]
Singaporeans who have achieved a merit (pass grade) in Singapore-Cambridge GCE O levels or above would not be required to take TOEFL. This arrangement is so far, exclusively for Singaporeans only.

Is there such an arrangment? I know of universities that require TOEFL even for transfer cases ie those who have achieved an A or B in another accredited US college for the English subjects, on top of a distinction in O level English. 1 of such university is University of Washington.

slmkhoo:

USgrad:

[quote=\"meinteel\"]
Singaporeans who have achieved a merit (pass grade) in Singapore-Cambridge GCE O levels or above would not be required to take TOEFL. This arrangement is so far, exclusively for Singaporeans only.

Is there such an arrangment? I know of universities that require TOEFL even for transfer cases ie those who have achieved an A or B in another accredited US college for the English subjects, on top of a distinction in O level English. 1 of such university is University of Washington.

USgrad:

meinteel:

Singaporeans who have achieved a merit (pass grade) in Singapore-Cambridge GCE O levels or above would not be required to take TOEFL. This arrangement is so far, exclusively for Singaporeans only.

Is there such an arrangment? I know of universities that require TOEFL even for transfer cases ie those who have achieved an A or B in another accredited US college for the English subjects, on top of a distinction in O level English. 1 of such university is University of Washington.

meinteel:

Singaporeans who have achieved a merit (pass grade) in Singapore-Cambridge GCE O levels or above would not be required to take TOEFL. This arrangement is so far, exclusively for Singaporeans only.

Lynn2010:

Thanks everyone.


A few more questions:

1. How do we know which SAT subject to take for which US uni? Will they specify?

2. If one is offered a place in a uni, the student can defer for a year or two?

Thanks!!

Lynn2010:

Thanks for reconfirming this. I know of someone who got about half a year worth of exemptions. I suppose one spends 2 yrs to do their A level not because one wants the exemption.

In short, if anyone (in theory) sits for SAT and gain a good enough marks, can use it to apply to US uni?? Is TOEFL required by Singapore children who already say have a distinction in Eng/GP for O/A level?

Lynn2010:

USgrad:

I reckon that you won't get anything more than the equivalent of a year, no matter where you go. And that's the most optimistic. Most don't get anywhere near that. So you'll save less than 1 semester by spending 2 years doing your A levels.

Thanks for reconfirming this. I know of someone who got about half a year worth of exemptions. I suppose one spends 2 yrs to do their A level not because one wants the exemption.

In short, if anyone (in theory) sits for SAT and gain a good enough marks, can use it to apply to US uni?? Is TOEFL required by Singapore children who already say have a distinction in Eng/GP for O/A level?

USgrad:

I reckon that you won't get anything more than the equivalent of a year, no matter where you go. And that's the most optimistic. Most don't get anywhere near that. So you'll save less than 1 semester by spending 2 years doing your A levels.

Lynn2010:

USgrad:

If the child is weak in Maths and Science, please do not think that you can avoid that by enrolling in college. Most, if not all, degree courses in the US has a substantial general education component. You need to do Math, lab science, humanities, fine arts, communication and critical thinking courses to satisfy the general education requirement in order to graduate.


The Math is at college level, and is more challenging than A level Math. Depending on your course of study, you need to be doing Algebra, Statistics and Calculus. For those doing business and social sciences, you'll likely be doing Calculus for Business and Social Sciences instead of pure Calculus. Statistics has a substantial lab component and you are expected to be able to work on models. The US courses tend to focus more on application and critical thinking.

Hi USgrad,

Does a student gain any credit/exemptions if he/she has an A level pass/distinction in the particular subject?

meinteel:

Unless the overseas university is in the top 200 list, I see no point in spending tons of $$$ going overseas. It would have been otherwise better spent in the stock market (for dividends & capital gains) or some property for rental income.

USgrad:

If the child is weak in Maths and Science, please do not think that you can avoid that by enrolling in college. Most, if not all, degree courses in the US has a substantial general education component. You need to do Math, lab science, humanities, fine arts, communication and critical thinking courses to satisfy the general education requirement in order to graduate.


The Math is at college level, and is more challenging than A level Math. Depending on your course of study, you need to be doing Algebra, Statistics and Calculus. For those doing business and social sciences, you'll likely be doing Calculus for Business and Social Sciences instead of pure Calculus. Statistics has a substantial lab component and you are expected to be able to work on models. The US courses tend to focus more on application and critical thinking.

twilight:

USgrad:

A student with good O level results, SAT score and good record of leadership and co-curricular activities has as good a chance of getting into a very good college as someone with good A level results. Very few (if there's any) colleges require A levels, not even Harvard. As a matter of fact, there was a Singaporean boy who started at Harvard at the age of 16, after his O levels. That was in the 1990s when you can defer your NS to go overseas after your O levels. I do not know how he did for his O levels. What I do know is that he was not amongst the top students academically for his O level cohort. But he was an Olympian at the age of 16. I've no idea how well he did at Harvard, but I believe he did well enough, if not better, compared to other Singaporeans who went after their A levels. He went on to win both the Rhodes Scholarship and the Commonwealth Scholarship.

I believe that is less true these days, when competition is so much stiffer in the 1st tier universities. Even though AP, IB, A levels are not mandatory, admission officers may still take into account all these. Many admission officers say they look for students who have taken the most challenging course load, so this indirectly implies that AP, IB, A levels etc are all considered.

I have several friends who have gone to university way earlier than peers. One is very gifted in physics and had applied to MIT at the age of 14, after completing the equivalent of grade 12, but was rejected. I believe MIT has had their share of child prodigies, so they shouldn't have rejected him based on his age. He did tell me the reason, but I don't feel inclined to share it here. Still, he managed to get into university at 15. Another friend went to university after O levels as well, as did her sister. She's currently in some university in Canada, studying nutrition. Not a top university, but she said that's not her priority, getting into a good university for post graduate is what's important. Another friend entered university at the age of 15 and is studying some engineering. The thing is, 2 of them are really gifted, and their IQ has been tested to be really high. The other friend, I think she is gifted as well, just probably not to the extent of prodigy, and all of them are studying something related to science, and I've not really heard of any friends gaining acceptance into US universities after O levels. I don't know where they applied to though. They could very well have only applied to the highly selective ones, of which even A level students would have small chance of getting in. I only know of one friend who studied philosophy in a US university after O levels. I think this could be because abilities in science can be more easily quantified. I'm not sure though, as I'm personally not very interested in humanities.

That said, there's really no harm trying to apply to universities. The thing is just that it's more likely that the universities will choose you, rather than you being able to choose the universities you want. Since JC starts in end January and US university offers only come in around March, unless you apply for ED, maybe she can attend JC first. If somehow she doesn't resent it, then maybe she can defer her place, or just forfeit it, if she doesn't mind applying all over again the next time. It's really a hassle to apply to US universities.

USgrad:

A student with good O level results, SAT score and good record of leadership and co-curricular activities has as good a chance of getting into a very good college as someone with good A level results. Very few (if there's any) colleges require A levels, not even Harvard. As a matter of fact, there was a Singaporean boy who started at Harvard at the age of 16, after his O levels. That was in the 1990s when you can defer your NS to go overseas after your O levels. I do not know how he did for his O levels. What I do know is that he was not amongst the top students academically for his O level cohort. But he was an Olympian at the age of 16. I've no idea how well he did at Harvard, but I believe he did well enough, if not better, compared to other Singaporeans who went after their A levels. He went on to win both the Rhodes Scholarship and the Commonwealth Scholarship.

koguma:

DadOfGirl:

[quote=\"koguma]

Ex-colleague's daughter is currently studying a full time degree programme in SIM and she is admitted using her \"O\" level results. The degree programme is awarded by University at Buffalo, The State University of New York.

You can check this link for more info on the programmes offered, or you can call SIM direct.

http://www.simge.edu.sg/gePortalWeb/appmanager/web/default?_nfpb=true&_st=&_pageLabel=pgViewAllProgrammes&fid=ViewAllProgrammes

The kid does not have problem with the pace of the programme so far, but her only \"complain\" is she is one of the youngest in the class. However, she is mature in her thinking, hence she has no problem communicating with her classmates who are mostly older than her.

Thank you for info.It is good to know there are options coming thro' if you don't want to go thro' rigors of A-level. This will be a good option,but i guess it would be more general Business adminsitration degree/Accountacy Degree. Will find out. Thank you again.

DadOfGirl:

On the contarary ,i find humanities students form active bond /build community /share knowledge.They develope trait to help & actively receive help( including from Maths & Science scholar)
Students who do well at 'Maths' & Science are very 'Competitive'. For them, 'It's like survival of fittest'. Given these , i guess 'Un-Maths' student coming out of O-level will be more mature than 'Maths/Science' peer.

realitysg:

Why the hurry? Is the world going to end soon? And don't you think that by going through A levels or at least even IB, will help your daughter write academic grade essays, especially if she's going to do a subject like psychology.


The 2 extra years also means that the student will be more matured by the time she gets to 1st year uni- 18-19 years vs going there at 16-17. Don't you think all these years make a difference? Unless the uni is some degree mill, that is...

tuition_czar:

If you can skip the As and head off straight to university or college, chances are the offering institution is a mediocre one. That said, it is very likely some form of bridging course will be needed.

It might be more helpful if you can share with the rest which university you are actually looking at. Or provide a reference to the thread you read.

I don't understand why you want to save the 2 years-what is the rush seriously?

slmkhoo:

DadOfGirl:

It is not about Advantage over peers. If you have found what would love to do 'lifelong'(Career), there is no need to 'Keep looking'. JC seems to be extra 2 years to find your calling.


I also feel that 'Humanity' students( Based on subject selection at the end of Sec 2) should take direct route(Read as Avoid A-levels)..after validating with their result in O-level. If you have double humanities subject with staller result in both subject.. you can try Law or Social science degree overseas.

It is in same way as 'SOTA' is gromming pure Arts students( Visual Arts, dramatics/theater, Music , Dance) from Sec1.

If the child is mature and really knows what she wants to do, I can see the argument for letting her do it sooner. But I think it's a rare child who knows that at 17yo. And especially for humanities/social sciences/law subjects, maturity does count for a lot. Younger students usually don't do as well as older ones, and mature students usually do well as they can draw on experience of life as well. I think students who excel at pure sciences and maths are probably better candidates for going to unversity early.