EC penthouse sold for record S$2.05m

Reply to EC penthouse sold for record S$2.05m on Tue, 15 Jan 2013 02:00:32 GMT

winchester — Tue, 15 Jan 2013 02:00:32 GMT

LindsayL:

This statement is true only when the whole global economy is bad and deterioted. But, I don't think we are at this state or heading to this state.

thought the global economy already in bad shape - kicking the can in the fiscal cliff in us and eurozone still shaky. our own economy walking on knife edge, gdp growth 1.8% in last quarter supported by construction more than anything else, and technical recession always looming.

so far still surviving, and optimism in property market, but dangerously and feebly so imho.

Reply to EC penthouse sold for record S$2.05m on Mon, 14 Jan 2013 23:20:10 GMT

LindsayL — Mon, 14 Jan 2013 23:20:10 GMT

Rational_Parent:
Emelyn:
[quote=\"Rational_Parent\"]PRs and people who have invested in second or more properties should be the worst hit this time around. Of course this in turn will also affect both upgraders and downgraders who have to offload their homes in order to do so because the buying side of the equation is affected.

Sorry for my ignorance. But why will the PRs and people who have invested in second or more properties be the worst hit ? Are you refering to them not being able to sell the unit ?

It’s better not to reiterate. Hope you’ll understand better after reading these:
http://www.todayonline.com/Singapore/EDC130111-0000131/Govt-announces-new-property-cooling-measures

http://www.sfgate.com/business/bloomberg/article/Singapore-Home-Prices-May-Post-First-Drop-in-5-4191104.php

And the effects have prompted this posting for a start:
http://www.kiasuparents.com/kiasu/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=36858&start=540

If property market dampens, those who bought more than one property for investment recently will have to decide what to - ride it out or sell; those who bought, say, two to three years back should still enjoy profits even if force to sell at 5-8% below current valuation. The measures do dampen the sale of property because the pool of PR/Foreigners buyers will likely shrink. Therefore, those investments not riding on rental yields to service loans will feel the impact of the cooling effect, unless of course they are tycoons or people with lots of cash to burn. Everyone in investment will feel the heat if the debt crisis in US which is around the corner is not handled well, particularly those investing in properties because they are not easy to liquidate.[/quote]This statement is true only when the whole global economy is bad and deterioted. But, I don't think we are at this state or heading to this state.

Reply to EC penthouse sold for record S$2.05m on Mon, 14 Jan 2013 08:41:03 GMT

MMM — Mon, 14 Jan 2013 08:41:03 GMT

dh have thoughts of selling of our property and use the proceed to either pay off the outstanding loans for other property or for future investment.

Told him to think twice now… If there is no concrete plans might as well continue to collect rental for the next 3 years + since we just renewed the tenancy for 4 years. Investing new property would mean hefty stamp duty. Not doing anything would mean our $ is idle in CPF. Also as the bank loan quantum drops with 2nd and other property, the cash outfront a new investment would be hefty too.

My cousin who has 4 properties was also having thoughts about additional investment due to the huge initial cash outlay as well as stamp duty. That is a deterent.

But we would prefer government to take such actions to cool then to have a property bubble. The bubble would be more painful for everyone.

Reply to EC penthouse sold for record S$2.05m on Mon, 14 Jan 2013 08:27:17 GMT

Rational_Parent — Mon, 14 Jan 2013 08:27:17 GMT

Emelyn:
Rational_Parent:
PRs and people who have invested in second or more properties should be the worst hit this time around. Of course this in turn will also affect both upgraders and downgraders who have to offload their homes in order to do so because the buying side of the equation is affected.

Sorry for my ignorance. But why will the PRs and people who have invested in second or more properties be the worst hit ? Are you refering to them not being able to sell the unit ?

Reply to EC penthouse sold for record S$2.05m on Mon, 14 Jan 2013 04:53:38 GMT

Emelyn — Mon, 14 Jan 2013 04:53:38 GMT

Rational_Parent:
PRs and people who have invested in second or more properties should be the worst hit this time around. Of course this in turn will also affect both upgraders and downgraders who have to offload their homes in order to do so because the buying side of the equation is affected.

Sorry for my ignorance. But why will the PRs and people who have invested in second or more properties be the worst hit ? Are you refering to them not being able to sell the unit ?

Reply to EC penthouse sold for record S$2.05m on Mon, 14 Jan 2013 04:30:15 GMT

limlim — Mon, 14 Jan 2013 04:30:15 GMT

3Boys:

Who contributes to the panic-buying of mass market condos hitting stratospheric price levels? Those who can barely afford, or the very well-off? And if they are knocked out of the market by the latest measures, why is it a bad thing?

Well, I feel its not a bad thing actually.. the govt is actually protecting those vulnerable..

I'm not sure where you get the impression that I'm criticizing the move (if any).. I'm just curious about the possible price movement.. so waiting for the experts including yourself to share their views/advise..

Questioning yes.. of coz.. criticizing, no, definitely.

I have very little awareness of how the property market works.

Reply to EC penthouse sold for record S$2.05m on Mon, 14 Jan 2013 01:36:43 GMT

3Boys — Mon, 14 Jan 2013 01:36:43 GMT

limlim:
3Boys:
[quote=\"limlim\"]

If the move is to raise the barrier for those who can barely afford..
Where on earth did you form this impression from?

Look at the policy announcement lah...

Impact on foreign buying, impact from 2nd property onwards...

To whom is this being targeted at? Obvious is it not?

It raises the bar right across the board. Or are you saying only the billionaires need to be targeted? Who are the people thronging the condo show rooms? Not the billionaires....

Property prices going up or down? Who knows? If someone has that crystal ball he don't need to go to work oredi.

But the policy measure is meant to put a damper on the market isn't it? Whether it just slows a rise in prices or causes a correction is anybody's guess.

I meant.. those who can barely afford to buy property for pure investment only.. Those who are very rich is barely affected.

I'm aware the policies doesn't affect SG 1st time buyers much..

I never say the policy is good or not good.[/quote]Who contributes to the panic-buying of mass market condos hitting stratospheric price levels? Those who can barely afford, or the very well-off? And if they are knocked out of the market by the latest measures, why is it a bad thing?

The government is saying, if you can barely afford to buy a property right now, with interest rates so low, then you pretty much better stay at the sidelines because at some point in time there will be rise in rates, a surge in supply, and a correction in prices, and you are going to be in a sea of pain. And they are putting all kinds of barriers in place to discourage these people from throwing themselves over the cliff like mindless lemmings.

It is completely untrue that the very rich will not be influenced. They got to be very rich because they have been very careful and clever with their money. They don't go round chasing over-valued properties they can barely afford, paying huge upfront buying and liquidation taxes now in force.

My bet is that some of the very rich are just sitting tight on their money, waiting for a correction, then picking up the pieces. I.e. profiting from those who could barely afford to hold, who are liquidating at a big loss, and therefore enriching themselves even further. Meanwhile, if they want a lifestyle of the rich and famous, all they need to do is rent a GCB from some poor Singaporean owner getting 3.5% gross yield (i.e. making no money from the rental).

And oh, actually you did call the policy into question.

http://www.economist.com/news/finance-and-economics/21569396-our-latest-round-up-shows-many-housing-markets-are-still-dumps-home

Reply to EC penthouse sold for record S$2.05m on Mon, 14 Jan 2013 01:26:09 GMT

3Boys — Mon, 14 Jan 2013 01:26:09 GMT

pirate:
3Boys:
To whom is this being targeted at? Obvious is it not?

It raises the bar right across the board.
It raises the bar right across the board, except for first-time homebuyers who are not thinking of overstretching themselves and potentially getting into trouble if interest rates should go up.

But if I were one of them, I would seriously reconsider whether it is absolutely necessary to buy NOW. The government has already told you there are 200,000 residential units in the pipeline. A 5% drop in price is... how many months/years of your salary? Don't say the MIW never warn you hor.

But S'poreans are unfortunately a desperate lot :siao: .

Those people lining up at the showroom before midnight to beat the policy implementation?

Sort of like queing to board a plane when you know there a good chance of a crash.

Reply to EC penthouse sold for record S$2.05m on Mon, 14 Jan 2013 00:56:12 GMT

limlim — Mon, 14 Jan 2013 00:56:12 GMT

3Boys:
limlim:
[quote=\"Rational_Parent\"]It's not call cooling measures for nothing. These measures are meant to cool down the property market, and this means bring down the price.

If the move is to raise the barrier for those who can barely afford..

Where on earth did you form this impression from?

Look at the policy announcement lah...

Impact on foreign buying, impact from 2nd property onwards...

To whom is this being targeted at? Obvious is it not?

It raises the bar right across the board. Or are you saying only the billionaires need to be targeted? Who are the people thronging the condo show rooms? Not the billionaires....

Property prices going up or down? Who knows? If someone has that crystal ball he don't need to go to work oredi.

But the policy measure is meant to put a damper on the market isn't it? Whether it just slows a rise in prices or causes a correction is anybody's guess.[/quote]I meant.. those who can barely afford to buy property for pure investment only.. Those who are very rich is barely affected.

I'm aware the policies doesn't affect SG 1st time buyers much..

I never say the policy is good or not good.

I'm just curious on possible consequences on property markets and maybe property counters. No comments, no judgements.

Reply to EC penthouse sold for record S$2.05m on Mon, 14 Jan 2013 00:53:43 GMT

pirate — Mon, 14 Jan 2013 00:53:43 GMT

3Boys:
To whom is this being targeted at? Obvious is it not?

It raises the bar right across the board.

It raises the bar right across the board, except for first-time homebuyers who are not thinking of overstretching themselves and potentially getting into trouble if interest rates should go up.

But if I were one of them, I would seriously reconsider whether it is absolutely necessary to buy NOW. The government has already told you there are 200,000 residential units in the pipeline. A 5% drop in price is... how many months/years of your salary? Don't say the MIW never warn you hor.

Reply to EC penthouse sold for record S$2.05m on Mon, 14 Jan 2013 00:27:00 GMT

3Boys — Mon, 14 Jan 2013 00:27:00 GMT

limlim:
Rational_Parent:
It's not call cooling measures for nothing. These measures are meant to cool down the property market, and this means bring down the price.

If the move is to raise the barrier for those who can barely afford..

Reply to EC penthouse sold for record S$2.05m on Sun, 13 Jan 2013 11:46:24 GMT

limlim — Sun, 13 Jan 2013 11:46:24 GMT

Rational_Parent:
It's not call cooling measures for nothing. These measures are meant to cool down the property market, and this means bring down the price.

Will prices drop or just remain stable or rise slowly..? That's my question..

If the move is to raise the barrier for those who can barely afford.. then it will have limited impact on the prices right..?

Reply to EC penthouse sold for record S$2.05m on Sun, 13 Jan 2013 01:57:31 GMT

arowana — Sun, 13 Jan 2013 01:57:31 GMT

Rational_Parent:
limlim:
What will be impact of the cooling measures?

Only economy crises on a global scale will cause prices to come crashing down, and that I think will happen between 2014 and 2015.

Agree with the above except the date! US has shown sign of recovery now and it may take a while to fully boom and then crash. Most likely later than that.

Reply to EC penthouse sold for record S$2.05m on Sun, 13 Jan 2013 00:44:04 GMT

raysusan — Sun, 13 Jan 2013 00:44:04 GMT

http://theonlinecitizen.com/2013/01/property-cooling-or-political-heating-measures/#.UPEsbcdxWpA.facebook

interesting read

Reply to EC penthouse sold for record S$2.05m on Sat, 12 Jan 2013 17:19:05 GMT

Rational_Parent — Sat, 12 Jan 2013 17:19:05 GMT

limlim:
What will be impact of the cooling measures?

Will property price drop bcoz of drop in demand? Or will property prices not affected even thou there are less buyers bcoz there'll still be a large number of pple who can well afford?

The property measures definitely affect those who can barely afford..

But these pple are unlikely the ones who will cost the price to go up right..? hence my question on removing these group of pple will have impact on the price or not..

It's not call cooling measures for nothing. These measures are meant to cool down the property market, and this means bring down the price.

This time around, all kinds of properties, be it commercial, private housing or public housing, are affected. That is why the Finance Minister was quick to come out to say that these measures were not meant to cause a property bust, and would act if it does. PRs and people who have invested in second or more properties should be the worst hit this time around. Of course this in turn will also affect both upgraders and downgraders who have to offload their homes in order to do so because the buying side of the equation is affected.

Property prices should hold at least because HDB is the main driver. So long as the current valuation of new HDB flat remains, the dip in prices in the near term of both private and public housing will not be too drastic imho. In the long term though, land scare Singapore properties should remain strong. Only economy crises on a global scale will cause prices to come crashing down, and that I think will happen between 2014 and 2015.

Reply to EC penthouse sold for record S$2.05m on Sat, 12 Jan 2013 09:43:49 GMT

limlim — Sat, 12 Jan 2013 09:43:49 GMT

I'm just try to learn something from KSP..

very limited in awareness on properties and policy impact. At this moment, I'm more interested to ask question.. not making judgements or comments.. :evil:

Reply to EC penthouse sold for record S$2.05m on Sat, 12 Jan 2013 09:33:23 GMT

3Boys — Sat, 12 Jan 2013 09:33:23 GMT

limlim:
What will be impact of the cooling measures?

Will property price drop bcoz of drop in demand? Or will property prices not affected even thou there are less buyers bcoz there'll still be a large number of pple who can well afford?

The property measures definitely affect those who can barely afford..

But these pple are unlikely the ones who will cost the price to go up right..? hence my question on removing these group of pple will have impact on the price or not..

If you a first time buyer, these measures do not hit you too hard. It hits those who are trying to procure additional properties for investments.

People 'think' they can afford because interest rate are low. It is exactly this sandwich class that need to be discouraged from overextending in property in the vain hope of a quick buck.

These measures will cool prices (or at least dampen intake increase ).

Looking for a cloud in a silver lining are you? I suppose in limlim's world every gment policy is meant to disadvantage the masses........

So in your view have they gone too far, or not done enough? What else you would do to make life even more difficult for the well heeled?

Reply to EC penthouse sold for record S$2.05m on Sat, 12 Jan 2013 09:23:22 GMT

3Boys — Sat, 12 Jan 2013 09:23:22 GMT

Rational_Parent:
3Boys:
[quote=\"Rational_Parent\"]
I wonder how those who bought properties for investment now feels. But that guy who bought the 2.05m EC unit can now smile forever and there's not a lot anyone can do about it. One lucky bloke.
Be assured, it is entirely possible to lose money on ECs.

Being one of a kind penthouse in an EC development at a cost of $470 per sq. ft, I would say highly unlikely. At current rate, 470 per sq. ft. plot cost is even lower than many HDB resale flats. But I were him, I'll not sell for there'll never be a better property deal for a penthouse at that size/cost.[/quote]Is this not with loads of open terrace and roof space, like what minister Khaw was referring to?

Reply to EC penthouse sold for record S$2.05m on Sat, 12 Jan 2013 08:33:35 GMT

limlim — Sat, 12 Jan 2013 08:33:35 GMT

What will be impact of the cooling measures?

Will property price drop bcoz of drop in demand? Or will property prices not affected even thou there are less buyers bcoz there’ll still be a large number of pple who can well afford?

The property measures definitely affect those who can barely afford…

But these pple are unlikely the ones who will cost the price to go up right…? hence my question on removing these group of pple will have impact on the price or not…

Reply to EC penthouse sold for record S$2.05m on Sat, 12 Jan 2013 02:11:39 GMT

Rational_Parent — Sat, 12 Jan 2013 02:11:39 GMT

3Boys:
Rational_Parent:

I wonder how those who bought properties for investment now feels. But that guy who bought the 2.05m EC unit can now smile forever and there's not a lot anyone can do about it. One lucky bloke.
Be assured, it is entirely possible to lose money on ECs.

Reply to EC penthouse sold for record S$2.05m on Sat, 12 Jan 2013 01:49:20 GMT

3Boys — Sat, 12 Jan 2013 01:49:20 GMT

Rational_Parent:

I wonder how those who bought properties for investment now feels. But that guy who bought the 2.05m EC unit can now smile forever and there's not a lot anyone can do about it. One lucky bloke.

Be assured, it is entirely possible to lose money on ECs.

Reply to EC penthouse sold for record S$2.05m on Fri, 11 Jan 2013 17:13:15 GMT

arowana — Fri, 11 Jan 2013 17:13:15 GMT

http://sg.news.yahoo.com/cooling-measures-singapore-105507446--sector.html

Reply to EC penthouse sold for record S$2.05m on Fri, 11 Jan 2013 16:17:03 GMT

Rational_Parent — Fri, 11 Jan 2013 16:17:03 GMT

Rational_Parent:
sleepy:
[quote=\"HVR\"]Income ceiling $12k. Let's say loan 80% then need to borrow 1.6 millions how to make monthly payment? Definitely have to pay cash and will any bank approves such loan? This being a 'public' and hence, 'subsidized' project, if the buyers have so much cash to pay upfront then shouldn't enjoy any grant at all.

Bank cap interests repayment at 40% of income. Even if wanna pay more than 40% bank don't accept.

My guess is this couple will not be taking 80% loan. Possibly much lower loan%. Alternatively, if they are young couple, can stretch loan for a loooong period. Interests component will be super high though :shock:

You have to think outside the box, if I may say so. Think savings, not just of the purchaser but of his/her relatives who are willing to contribute and may even agree to cohabit in that large unit or just as a joint investment. And then there are possibilities of the purchaser or his/her kin enjoying a windfall such as winning lotteries and/or come into a huge inheritance which the authority also cannot begrudge. With such a unique and only unit in a development, it is surely bound to attract tremendous interests and sell very profitably in the future. Therefore, bottom-line, it is a very sound investment and indeed a star buy. I think even banks will not be too perturbed in financing this purchase because of the above-mentioned, provided they are doing it within the rules. And one cannot begrudge the purchaser as well for he/she is also playing within the rules and wants to maximize his/her benefits like all sane humans do.

The issue is not with the purchaser but with the government and EC developers for lack of control and for blurring the original concept of ECs as being for the \"sandwiched group\". If the reason for the cost of housing to rise is due in part to supply is not catching up with demand then building such large unit is definitely not helping because three other reasonable sized units could have been built in place of it.

There will sure be new rulings in the pipeline concerning public housing, and changes to ECs rulings will definitely take centre-stage. But those lucky ones with penthouses will be just that - lucky ones.[/quote]And there you go, new rulings to cool the property market and some heated heads. Somehow one cannot help but feel sentiments, whether from public, feedbacks, and even forums such as this KSP, do get to the authority. The speed at which actions are taken is not really surprising, what with a by-election around the corner. The by-election will also hold back the imminent fare hikes in public buses and MRT for sure.

I wonder how those who bought properties for investment now feels. But that guy who bought the 2.05m EC unit can now smile forever and there's not a lot anyone can do about it. One lucky bloke.

Reply to EC penthouse sold for record S$2.05m on Sat, 05 Jan 2013 07:33:08 GMT

Lilac66 — Sat, 05 Jan 2013 07:33:08 GMT

I feel the HDB flats are still generally quite affordable for young couples if we are talking about just standard flats. A 3 rm flat in a location like Bukit Batok going at about $250K(w/o grants) should not be too much of a stretch for these couples.

Our system is fair as every citizen gets 2 bites of the cherry and most will upgrade from there . Selling these subsidised flats 5 years later will undoubtedly earn you quite a tidy sum.(provided economy is still strong then).
If course if these people are looking only at bigger flats in mature estates as their first home, then they must be prepared to pay a premium.

As for ECs,I’m sure KBW is not going to close one eye to this so there’ll be new rules soon for the developers to adhere to