Bonus pro-rated cos of maternity leave

Reply to Bonus pro-rated cos of maternity leave on Wed, 20 Mar 2013 02:47:11 GMT

straffan23 — Wed, 20 Mar 2013 02:47:11 GMT

For my first one, I was my usual self and still worked till past 9pm on most days. For that year, I recall that I did get an A rating and full bonus while I was at the hospital (I delivered around the day the bonus was paid!). For my second one, by then I had decided not to be a workaholic and spend more time with my no. 1. She was at full-day childcare and I didn’t have extra help, so I would leave on the dot to go home to cook. My boss’ justification was that while I did perform the scope of my duties, I was not "exceptional" cos I wasn’t there when he needed me at 8pm or 9pm. I think I got a B. True but it pains me so much to hear it (still).

No. 3 is on the way and while I am somewhat suffering the most in this pregnancy, I am also covering for another one whom is on maternity leave. I do wonder how I will be rated - esp this is a new place for me!

As a matter of principal, I am the sort that would argue (if I am in your position). Although, the absolute quantum may not be the main point of debate, it would just so pain me if my contributions were not acknowledged. Good luck!

Reply to Bonus pro-rated cos of maternity leave on Mon, 18 Mar 2013 13:26:39 GMT

nms1 — Mon, 18 Mar 2013 13:26:39 GMT

straffan23:
I have asked this question to my boss at point blank. So here's to share:

Maternity leave, Hospitalisation Leave and Annual leave are considered entitlements of which, when required, when taken, does not effect the performance bonus e.g. bosses are required to rate their staff A, B, C. The rating should be based on the performance of the staff during the time that they worked.

However, the reality is that pregnancy does affect the work performance and output (tiredness, lack of energy, :sick: :sick: complications with pregnancy, etc)... so there goes the performance rating. Sad, but truth, and indeed, fair.

And when no-pay leave is taken, for whatever reason, our HR automatically pro-rates the bonus. Which is also fair...

I think one of the issues here is that pregnancy doesn't always negatively impact performance. I didn't take a single day of MC during any of my pregnancies. During my first one I didn't even have any gynae appointments on weekdays until my final week.

In my first pregnancy, I launched a new product in Asia earlier than anywhere else in the world in order to complete the project before I went off. In my second, there were two of us in a team of four pregnant at the same time and we ran a major customer event in Australia in the middle of that and I left very little for the other two to over while we were away. Immediately after coming back I had to cover for the other lady who was in Australia and taking 12 months off. In my third I covered for someone else's maternity leave for 3 months for my 6-8th months. Should I have lost part of my bonus? For my 2nd & 3rd I did as it was a different company from the 1st - both MNCs but one American and one UK.

Reply to Bonus pro-rated cos of maternity leave on Mon, 18 Mar 2013 09:07:31 GMT

limlim — Mon, 18 Mar 2013 09:07:31 GMT

since MC is also entitlement… taking lots of MC within the entitlement limit shouldn’t affect also right?

Reply to Bonus pro-rated cos of maternity leave on Mon, 18 Mar 2013 05:29:18 GMT

straffan23 — Mon, 18 Mar 2013 05:29:18 GMT

I have asked this question to my boss at point blank. So here's to share:

Maternity leave, Hospitalisation Leave and Annual leave are considered entitlements of which, when required, when taken, does not effect the performance bonus e.g. bosses are required to rate their staff A, B, C. The rating should be based on the performance of the staff during the time that they worked.

However, the reality is that pregnancy does affect the work performance and output (tiredness, lack of energy, :sick: :sick: complications with pregnancy, etc)... so there goes the performance rating. Sad, but truth, and indeed, fair.

And when no-pay leave is taken, for whatever reason, our HR automatically pro-rates the bonus. Which is also fair...

Reply to Bonus pro-rated cos of maternity leave on Mon, 18 Mar 2013 04:49:05 GMT

limlim — Mon, 18 Mar 2013 04:49:05 GMT

Busymom:
limlim:
[quote=\"Busymom\"]

If one takes no-pay leave for a whole year, there should be no performance bonus for this staff.

On the other hand, if the staff took 4 months off, it does not mean that she did less work in the 8 months when she was in the office as compared to another staff who worked 12 months.
Say she did 100% work in the 8 mths she was in the office.

And 100% × 8/12 = 67% of the output of the other staff who was in the office for 12 mths.

Even if the other staff gives only 90%, the output is still more than the one who disappeared for 4 mths.

Do not forget that BOTH staff are fully paid for the whole year.

So, what is consider \"fair\"? equal bonus for same pay different output is fair to the other staff?

And.. there's something wrong with the logic with regards to no pay leave. Someone who is not around for 4mth months and not paid should get less bonus than someone who is not around for 4mth but still paid? How does this makes sense to the pay master..?

It's clear that you and I are talking about different things.

My point is not about taking paid leave or no-pay leave. It is about being away for 12 months and therefore there is no performance for that 12 months to warrant any performance bonus.

In any case, in order to take no-pay leave, one must have fully exhausted all his paid-leave, no?[/quote]ok, I missed the part on NPL for 1 whole year.

But the comment with regards to 4mth NPL vs 4mth maternity leave still stands. I feel it's fair to consider them the same level of grading (where attendance is concerned).

Reply to Bonus pro-rated cos of maternity leave on Mon, 18 Mar 2013 03:27:47 GMT

aloyboy — Mon, 18 Mar 2013 03:27:47 GMT

anyone working in stat board or government ? do they pro-rate ?

Reply to Bonus pro-rated cos of maternity leave on Fri, 08 Mar 2013 04:56:49 GMT

Busymom — Fri, 08 Mar 2013 04:56:49 GMT

limlim:
Busymom:

If one takes no-pay leave for a whole year, there should be no performance bonus for this staff.

On the other hand, if the staff took 4 months off, it does not mean that she did less work in the 8 months when she was in the office as compared to another staff who worked 12 months.
Say she did 100% work in the 8 mths she was in the office.

And 100% × 8/12 = 67% of the output of the other staff who was in the office for 12 mths.

Even if the other staff gives only 90%, the output is still more than the one who disappeared for 4 mths.

Do not forget that BOTH staff are fully paid for the whole year.

So, what is consider \"fair\"? equal bonus for same pay different output is fair to the other staff?

And.. there's something wrong with the logic with regards to no pay leave. Someone who is not around for 4mth months and not paid should get less bonus than someone who is not around for 4mth but still paid? How does this makes sense to the pay master..?

Reply to Bonus pro-rated cos of maternity leave on Fri, 08 Mar 2013 00:13:39 GMT

Nebbermind — Fri, 08 Mar 2013 00:13:39 GMT

cherrygal:
You asking me or Seunggi? The performance bonus is a Granted amount x the ranking. So after being forced to lower the ranking to reflect the time at the office (eg. 7 out of the full 10 marks), the granted amount is lowered. I don't consider it a double penalty lah.

When I asked why I had to lower my own ranking, boss said they had to pay the temp to do my work for 4 months plus and I wasn't around for 4 months. He also couldn't say I did a bad job coz my results were really good. So as Seunggi mentioned, the boss shouldn't tell us these types of reasons even if they meant it as such. Insensitive lor... plus new mothers are always hypersensitive

Oops! I was asking Senunggi
Anyway, to say that they have to pay the temp during that period may be insensitive. But if the dept or coy have to work within a budget, that money gotta come from somewhere so all I could say is that the supervisor could be abit more tactful.

Reply to Bonus pro-rated cos of maternity leave on Thu, 07 Mar 2013 16:36:40 GMT

limlim — Thu, 07 Mar 2013 16:36:40 GMT

Busymom:

If one takes no-pay leave for a whole year, there should be no performance bonus for this staff.

On the other hand, if the staff took 4 months off, it does not mean that she did less work in the 8 months when she was in the office as compared to another staff who worked 12 months.

Say she did 100% work in the 8 mths she was in the office.

And 100% × 8/12 = 67% of the output of the other staff who was in the office for 12 mths.

Even if the other staff gives only 90%, the output is still more than the one who disappeared for 4 mths.

Do not forget that BOTH staff are fully paid for the whole year.

So, what is consider \"fair\"? equal bonus for same pay different output is fair to the other staff?

And.. there's something wrong with the logic with regards to no pay leave. Someone who is not around for 4mth months and not paid should get less bonus than someone who is not around for 4mth but still paid? How does this makes sense to the pay master..?

Reply to Bonus pro-rated cos of maternity leave on Thu, 07 Mar 2013 15:55:16 GMT

cherrygal — Thu, 07 Mar 2013 15:55:16 GMT

You asking me or Seunggi? The performance bonus is a Granted amount x the ranking. So after being forced to lower the ranking to reflect the time at the office (eg. 7 out of the full 10 marks), the granted amount is lowered. I don't consider it a double penalty lah.

When I asked why I had to lower my own ranking, boss said they had to pay the temp to do my work for 4 months plus and I wasn't around for 4 months. He also couldn't say I did a bad job coz my results were really good. So as Seunggi mentioned, the boss shouldn't tell us these types of reasons even if they meant it as such. Insensitive lor... plus new mothers are always hypersensitive

Reply to Bonus pro-rated cos of maternity leave on Thu, 07 Mar 2013 14:59:18 GMT

Nebbermind — Thu, 07 Mar 2013 14:59:18 GMT

You mean to say you were given a low grading because of your maternity leave and then they further reduced the bonus by another 1/3 due to your absence from the office…like double penalty?

Reply to Bonus pro-rated cos of maternity leave on Thu, 07 Mar 2013 09:43:29 GMT

cherrygal — Thu, 07 Mar 2013 09:43:29 GMT

It’s really up to the supervisor really. The 13th month bonus is definitely not affected but when it comes to performance bonuses affected by rankings, the supervisor can force the one who took maternity leave to rank herself lower due to the 4-month absence or what he/she deems "average" performance. Call that penalty or discrimination but MOM doesn’t seem to protect this area coz rankings are very subjective. MOM is more worried about protecting the rice bowls of pregnant women and rightfully so.

Reply to Bonus pro-rated cos of maternity leave on Thu, 07 Mar 2013 09:42:27 GMT

Seunggi — Thu, 07 Mar 2013 09:42:27 GMT

MMM:

IMHO, it's not right for the company to say that the employee is getting pro-rated bonus because one is out for maternity, that sounds discriminating. However, the company can say that bonus is based on performance and since the performance is average (as compared to others based on bell curve logic), the person who is out will logically get lesser given that their contribution is lesser.

Thanks for sharing. and you summed up what i wanted to say. There is no such written policy in my company, what more when the manager tries to point it down to one. I've spoken to a few other colleagues and nobody got penalised for taking maternity leave.

As i've said, given the bad environment we are operating in today, i was expecting a cut in bonus so i was ready to accept the usual reasoning of 'bonus was slashed this year becoz of company performance bla bla' and not 'because you took 4 months of maternity leave'.

I'm still with the company. Anyway I've had a chat with HR and was advised that that line of reasoning is wrong and discriminatory in nature. So I have 2 options - take it out formally (go thru some process/hearing) or informally (talk again)

Reply to Bonus pro-rated cos of maternity leave on Thu, 07 Mar 2013 06:39:48 GMT

buds — Thu, 07 Mar 2013 06:39:48 GMT

All bonuses from my (then companies) were based on company’s performance. Because i was also entitled to profit-sharing loots, being preggie or going on maternity leaves does not have impact on what i get.

Reply to Bonus pro-rated cos of maternity leave on Thu, 07 Mar 2013 06:33:19 GMT

MMM — Thu, 07 Mar 2013 06:33:19 GMT

For my 1st 2 kids, I had them in the same company and maternity leave back then was 2 months.

I got pregnant upon joining the company. Fortunately, my boss was understanding. It was unexpected since I couldn’t conceive in my previous job. But after coming back from maternity leave, I am pregnant again (my 2 older kids are 11 months apart). I also had complications so I was on hospitalisation leave for 2 months prior to delivery so I was away for 4 months. But I was working from home during the 2 months prior to delivery so as to reduce burden on my colleague. I don’t recall my bonus was pro-rated as a result of that. In fact, I recalled getting good bonuses as the group I work for exceeded our targets.

For my 3rd child, again another Q4 baby and another complication case (so I was out for 4 months). I got the full bonus.

IMHO, it’s not right for the company to say that the employee is getting pro-rated bonus because one is out for maternity, that sounds discriminating. However, the company can say that bonus is based on performance and since the performance is average (as compared to others based on bell curve logic), the person who is out will logically get lesser given that their contribution is lesser.

Reply to Bonus pro-rated cos of maternity leave on Thu, 07 Mar 2013 05:56:54 GMT

cherrygal — Thu, 07 Mar 2013 05:56:54 GMT

I understand, I worked my ass off for 8 months (suffered so much stress during my pregnancy) to soften the impact of my absence for 4 months, the results were great but yet they take into account the time you were physically at the office. Most companies still like to see face-time rather than take a results-oriented approach.

Unhappiness aside, if HR dictates it, you either take it or leave it. If you like your job very much, would advise you to let it go and think of the 4 months paid leave and whatever bonus you had gotten.

If MOM doesn’t stipulate this ruling, we cannot fight it. I have friends who were retrenched right after they gave birth.

Anyway, now I am a SAHM and I am glad I had my baby with paid maternity leave!

Reply to Bonus pro-rated cos of maternity leave on Thu, 07 Mar 2013 04:54:36 GMT

insider — Thu, 07 Mar 2013 04:54:36 GMT

In my companies, the amount of bonus available is based on overall company performance. Say a company has X amount of profit and 18% of it is allocated for bonus. For example, $100,000 is the total amount available for sharing.

Then, the amount needed to give to staff their fixed bonus is deducted from this total bonus amount. If this amount is $40,000, that will leave $60,000 available for performance bonus.

Performance bonus from hereon is referring to the performance of each staff – you do more, you get more and vice versa.

Each staff will have an appraisal.

If your score is 80/100, you may get additional 2 months or 3 months.

If your score is 70/100, you may get additional 1 month.

If your score is less than 60/100, you get none.

And so on.

The $100,000 will be fully distributed and the companies always look at rewarding staff in the fairest way.

So far those women who are on maternity leave and have to get their performance bonus cut are quite receptive of such cut coz they know other times when their colleagues are on maternity leave, they will also enjoy a higher performance bonus when they have to cover other duties. (for those staff who are singles, who don’t really get to enjoy all the perks of having babies, they get to at least enjoy these additional performance bonus).

Reply to Bonus pro-rated cos of maternity leave on Thu, 07 Mar 2013 03:54:22 GMT

nms1 — Thu, 07 Mar 2013 03:54:22 GMT

In my case, my bonus payment is dependent on company performance not personal performance but it was still pro-rated when I was on maternity leave. I wasn’t informed until the bonus was being paid out so I wasn’t happy but it seems that was the rule!

Reply to Bonus pro-rated cos of maternity leave on Thu, 07 Mar 2013 02:12:46 GMT

Imami — Thu, 07 Mar 2013 02:12:46 GMT

No right or wrong here. Either change one’s mindset or change the reason given by the company. Same soup different bowl.

Reply to Bonus pro-rated cos of maternity leave on Thu, 07 Mar 2013 01:59:50 GMT

pirate — Thu, 07 Mar 2013 01:59:50 GMT

Which of this sounds fairer? You are ranked lower for performance bonus because you weren’t around for 4 months; or despite not being around for 4 months, we still rank you the same based on the work you did while you were here, but we have to prorate the performance bonus?

Seems like a glass half full or glass half empty semantic problem to me.

Reply to Bonus pro-rated cos of maternity leave on Thu, 07 Mar 2013 01:09:54 GMT

Imami — Thu, 07 Mar 2013 01:09:54 GMT

Nebbermind:
you certainly sounded like you wanted more of the bonus in the 1st post!

I am rather confused now. :scratchhead:

She wanted a fair judgement. The reason given to her doesn’t sound fair to her. The quantum is probably less important.

Reply to Bonus pro-rated cos of maternity leave on Thu, 07 Mar 2013 01:08:18 GMT

Imami — Thu, 07 Mar 2013 01:08:18 GMT

Seunggi:
our bonus is all performance based, we don't have contractual or the 13th month bonus. I don't deny the fact that i was out for 4 months and therefore someone needed to cover for me (in fact that person even resigned!) so therefore i would receive or be appraised less. In fact I was expecting little because we haven't been doing well as an organisation on the whole.

But the reasoning given to me is quite out of line - it's right out telling me I'm being penalised for being pregnant and what more saying there is 'such a policy' when there isn't one. Anyway i've raised this to HR who was also shocked by the line of reasoning. So we'll see how it goes.

I'm not asking for more share of the money/pie. I'm asking to be appraised fairly and that is to appraise me for the job done, not because I had to give birth and care for my child. If I didn't do a good job for the remaining 8 months I wouldn't have received a good grading.

Being in Asia, i do not expect much outcome on this.

Seunggi,

Can you share with us your occupation? How “”performance based” is this job?

I have a short stint (2 Years) helming the full spectrum of HR function for a US MNC, albeit not a true blue HR person (I am an accountant by profession). While I can share from a HR perspective, there is a limit to my view since I have only 2 years of experience contained in that company.

I don’t see why/how by having someone to cover you can be taken as a reason to penalise you. The company should look at the reason behind having to need someone to cover you. The physical location of where we are at in the world is not as important as the people who design and execute the policies.

The person who said it to you, can what he said be taken as to represent the company and/or HR policies? In any case, I find the reason as posted a lame one and can’t help but feeling what is said is what he thinks (not what it actually is). When come to this kind of situation, the superior should rope the HR in and have a closed door discussion with the staff involved. If need be and possible, the computation matrix should be shared (only the matrix, not the final score).

By the way, I thought you had leave that company? How to raise the issue to HR?

Reply to Bonus pro-rated cos of maternity leave on Thu, 07 Mar 2013 01:02:29 GMT

Nebbermind — Thu, 07 Mar 2013 01:02:29 GMT

you certainly sounded like you wanted more of the bonus in the 1st post!

I am rather confused now. :scratchhead:

Reply to Bonus pro-rated cos of maternity leave on Thu, 07 Mar 2013 00:48:46 GMT

Seunggi — Thu, 07 Mar 2013 00:48:46 GMT

our bonus is all performance based, we don’t have contractual or the 13th month bonus. I don’t deny the fact that i was out for 4 months and therefore someone needed to cover for me (in fact that person even resigned!) so therefore i would receive or be appraised less. In fact I was expecting little because we haven’t been doing well as an organisation on the whole.

But the reasoning given to me is quite out of line - it’s right out telling me I’m being penalised for being pregnant and what more saying there is ‘such a policy’ when there isn’t one. Anyway i’ve raised this to HR who was also shocked by the line of reasoning. So we’ll see how it goes.

I’m not asking for more share of the money/pie. I’m asking to be appraised fairly and that is to appraise me for the job done, not because I had to give birth and care for my child. If I didn’t do a good job for the remaining 8 months I wouldn’t have received a good grading.

Being in Asia, i do not expect much outcome on this.