Nebbermind:

Is there a need for logic in this case? Why do boys have to keep their hair short and neat? Can they go to school with long hair but tied in a bun like the Sikh kids if they are not Sikh? :scratchhead:

tutor_ng:

pirate:

[quote=\"tutor_ng\"]You know what people will think now? Anytime I am unhappy with a rule, just nod head and pretend to follow, then go behind my superior's back to make a big fuss to the media. Is this the correct message we want to send out to our future generation? This is what I am concerned about.

There is no correct message in this episode anymore, because MOE mishandled the whole thing by having the Minister speak up. He should have kept quiet and let the principal do the talking. The principal's authority was not undermined by the parents, students or the media. It was undermined by the Minister.

The girls are not adults. I do not expect secondary school students to act like adults. I do, however, expect people in authority to act like adults. Sadly, I find the adults' actions in this entire episode to be more lacking than that of the girls.

I also find it ironic that here we are, trying to teach our children to exercise independent and deep thinking, to question assumptions and norms. Yet, when it comes to the crunch, we expect them to not question what adults decide!

pirate:

tutor_ng:

You know what people will think now? Anytime I am unhappy with a rule, just nod head and pretend to follow, then go behind my superior's back to make a big fuss to the media. Is this the correct message we want to send out to our future generation? This is what I am concerned about.

There is no correct message in this episode anymore, because MOE mishandled the whole thing by having the Minister speak up. He should have kept quiet and let the principal do the talking. The principal's authority was not undermined by the parents, students or the media. It was undermined by the Minister.

The girls are not adults. I do not expect secondary school students to act like adults. I do, however, expect people in authority to act like adults. Sadly, I find the adults' actions in this entire episode to be more lacking than that of the girls.

I also find it ironic that here we are, trying to teach our children to exercise independent and deep thinking, to question assumptions and norms. Yet, when it comes to the crunch, we expect them to not question what adults decide!

pirate:

metz:

Frankly, this is a rather subjective and sensitive topic. Each of us may hold our opinions on this. Those girls are entitled to their own opinions. But unfortunately, the principal has her own opinion too. If the girls couldn't agree with the principal's view, they should have sought a transfer to another school that supports their actions. In the same way, if we disgree with a company's culture, we simply choose not to join the company. Period.

Is this the sort of critical thinking we are trying to teach our kids in our education system? In the same way, if we as citizens do not agree with the government of the day's policies, we should emigrate? :scratchhead:

metz:

Frankly, this is a rather subjective and sensitive topic. Each of us may hold our opinions on this. Those girls are entitled to their own opinions. But unfortunately, the principal has her own opinion too. If the girls couldn't agree with the principal's view, they should have sought a transfer to another school that supports their actions. In the same way, if we disgree with a company's culture, we simply choose not to join the company. Period.

pirate:

HappyBlueBear:

Agree it's a :goodpost:

The school has its rules & regulations and the principal has the right to set reasonable T & Cs. Once the students agree to the T&Cs verbally or in black & white, they have to abide by them. If they can't respect their principal, I don't expect them to respect their future employers. As an employer, I wouldn't want to employ any of these young punks. No, no thank you. Such liabilities.

Where is the rule that says cannot be bald? How is bald = not feminine reasonable?
As an employee, I wouldn't want to work in an organisation that stereotypes its employees based on such rigidities. No, thank you.

tutor_ng:

You know what people will think now? Anytime I am unhappy with a rule, just nod head and pretend to follow, then go behind my superior's back to make a big fuss to the media. Is this the correct message we want to send out to our future generation? This is what I am concerned about.

Sun_2010:

Good point.

This what I don't get.

Why some feel the girls have been irresponsible so should be disciplined but where as the P's frivolous comments can be overlooked?

Who should expected to show more wisdom and act responsibly?

concern2:

tutor_ng:

If you tell your child not to come back past midnight, would you like it if he/she goes against your instruction just because it is not meaningful?

No, won't like it. But what can be done if we only discover later (after some interrogations) that part of fun of the occasion was to 'stay out late? To the child, it would have felt like an anticlimax when the fun is just starting (say, for instance, it was prom night and the child did not tell us that beforehand).

pirate:

firefly38:

The Principal and the girls are not children..


And, the school is NOT a playground..

The Principal is not a child.
The girls are still children. This is a secondary school, not university.

tutor_ng:

Sun_2010:

It's not that simple. Some things to know are

What is the want? Is it just a random selfish want?

What is the condition? What is the purpose of the condition? Is the condition meaningful in the first place?

First of all, is it a need or a want for the girls to participate in the charity?
So participating in the charity is a frivolous want? If so, the P wouldnt have even given a conditional allowance?

Without joining this charity, is there elsewhere they can go to channel their time and energy if they really want to help the unfortunate?

The condition is set by the institution they are in. All of us set condition for the people who are within our 'organization'. Even within our own family, we have 'conditions' like curfew hours, do-and-don'ts, etc.
Yes , but dont we look at the spirit of the rule?


Same goes for when you are at work or in school. If you tell your child not to come back past midnight, would you like it if he/she goes against your instruction just because it is not meaningful?

HappyBlueBear:

Agree it's a :goodpost:

The school has its rules & regulations and the principal has the right to set reasonable T & Cs. Once the students agree to the T&Cs verbally or in black & white, they have to abide by them. If they can't respect their principal, I don't expect them to respect their future employers. As an employer, I wouldn't want to employ any of these young punks. No, no thank you. Such liabilities.

tutor_ng:

When I don't feel like fulfilling my part of the promise or agreement after I have gotten what I want, can I claim that I made the agreement due to fear and get away just like that? It is not very fair to the other party, isn't it?

firefly38:

The Principal and the girls are not children..


And, the school is NOT a playground..

tutor_ng:

If you tell your child not to come back past midnight, would you like it if he/she goes against your instruction just because it is not meaningful?

Sun_2010:

It's not that simple. Some things to know are

What is the want? Is it just a random selfish want?

What is the condition? What is the purpose of the condition? Is the condition meaningful in the first place?

Harlequin:

toddles:

I think this says it all. https://www.facebook.com/notes/ben-leong/much-ado-about-hair-or-rather-the-lack-thereof/10151560697757549


I don't know Ben Leong but these excerpts from his note echo my views. The whole note is worth reading too.

\"Directly disobeying lawful order and calling in the press is certainly not good form, or do these girls not understand this? Do their parents not understand this? 

I wouldn't pretend to speak for others, but as an employer, I wouldn't want to hire punks who cannot keep to their word, and will cry mother cry father and call in the press when things don't go their way. Would you? People really like STOMP don't they?

And there are some quarters crying out loud that the whole point of this hair shaving business is about making a statement in support of a good cause. 

Fair enough. But I shall need to remind these folks that our children do not go to school to make a statement. If they want to make a statement, they are welcome to do so at home. They are welcome to do so in public in their own time.

Schools are not places where our children should be going to make statements. They are institutes of learning. Why do we even bother having school uniforms? \"


Another comment left on minister heng's FB post https://www.facebook.com/hengsweekeat/posts/575976122440917 which got 61 likes so far makes good points too.

\"yunn: I can already see the ripples in the school. Student voice is a big thing in schools today. Principals tell students their opinions are important, that school leaders hear them. The students know the clout they wield. When the students does an annual survey, what they write affects the Principal. The P has to balance appeasing them and doing what is best for them, even if they do not like it. After this episode, Ps will feel less emboldened to make hard and right decisions.

If I am a student, this episode has taught me, if I want my way (whether right or not, in this case Hair for Hope a worthy cause), I can canvass support through my parents, the media, my friends. Promise, honor, respect for authority takes a back seat. After this episode, students will push the boundaries. Trust me, they will push. By not calling a spade a spade, you are encouraging it. Has the word 'wrong' become a dirty word? When they grow up as workers, they will push. They will not respect authority. You reap what you sow.

As a parent, I mourn. If I enrol my child in a school, my children must respect its rules. If the P says something, you obey. If you feel it is wrong, you negotiate. If you feel so strongly about it, leave for another school with another set of rules. Rules are there for a reason. If you make a promise, you keep it. How can we spend all our time at work, delegate our responsibilities of morals to schools, then tie their hands, the very same hands that teach them values? If my child has a cause, go ahead, make a statement, but in accordance with the rules. If the school says no, do it outside school. It does not diminish the cause.
Tuesday at 11:32pm · 61\"

:goodpost: :goodpost:

Thanks for sharing it here.

tutor_ng:

Nebbermind:

:idea: Or claim I am not of legal age and therefore contract non binding

When one finds the condition inconvenient after getting what they want, they can always find a million and one excuses to get away with fulfilling the condition later on.

Question is, do we let them get away with this in the name of compassion and charity? Do compassion and charity now trump integrity?

Like that all the vigilantes and Robin Hoods will soon have a field day in our country...don't be surprised to find a burglar in our house one day only to have him get away because he says he is robbing to feed the poor...

toddles:

To me, what matters most is the heart of these girls. What their true motivations are in bringing this episode to the media.


Are they artless ingenues, or out to cause trouble? After that is ascertained, then the right resolution can be employed.

Speaking to some youths, it seems that the latter is far more likely. In which case, the minister and the sympathetic public would indeed have been played.

Nebbermind:

:idea: Or claim I am not of legal age and therefore contract non binding