Returning S'porean kids from China

Reply to Returning S'porean kids from China on Fri, 05 Mar 2010 09:22:03 GMT

BeautifulLife — Fri, 05 Mar 2010 09:22:03 GMT

deleted

Reply to Returning S'porean kids from China on Tue, 01 Dec 2009 02:50:30 GMT

Poonie — Tue, 01 Dec 2009 02:50:30 GMT

kiasuqoomummy:
hi hi ,,, i am very new to this forum.. in fact i just registered today. Very happy to find this thread,,,cos I am now staying in china with my 2 kids!!

My 4YO is attending a local billingual childcare there,as we do not get fanciful international school education sponsorship . I'm very worried about his english standard(I'm a working mum, thus he grows up with his ayi). Despite me reading 1 hour of english story books to him almost everyday after work, his mandarin is still so much better than english....He speaks with a true blue beijing accent!haha..

i think it may be a better idea for us to relocate back to SG in 1-2Years time before he turns to primary school.

Anybody has such experience? Do I need to come back maybe 1 year before primary school, so that to enrol him with intensive english tuition to prepare for primary school?

Hope to make more friends here.

;>

Hi kiasuqoomummy and BeautifulLife

You might want to read earlier posts by schellen, mrswongtuition and mommyNg. They have given some of the answers there.

kiasuoomummy, I feel you don't have to worry about his English if he is coming back for P1. Primary school is a 6-yr journey so he will have plenty of time to catch up. If you speak English at home and cultivate in him the habit of reading some English story books, he really will not have a problem at P1. So it is not necessary to come back earlier for intensive English course.

Reply to Returning S'porean kids from China on Mon, 30 Nov 2009 09:03:50 GMT

kiasuqoomummy — Mon, 30 Nov 2009 09:03:50 GMT

hi hi ,,, i am very new to this forum.. in fact i just registered today. Very happy to find this thread,,,cos I am now staying in china with my 2 kids!!

My 4YO is attending a local billingual childcare there,as we do not get fanciful international school education sponsorship . I'm very worried about his english standard(I'm a working mum, thus he grows up with his ayi). Despite me reading 1 hour of english story books to him almost everyday after work, his mandarin is still so much better than english....He speaks with a true blue beijing accent!haha..

i think it may be a better idea for us to relocate back to SG in 1-2Years time before he turns to primary school.

Anybody has such experience? Do I need to come back maybe 1 year before primary school, so that to enrol him with intensive english tuition to prepare for primary school?

Hope to make more friends here.

;>

Reply to Returning S'porean kids from China on Tue, 17 Nov 2009 11:50:27 GMT

BeautifulLife — Tue, 17 Nov 2009 11:50:27 GMT

Hi everyone,

Our family needs to relocate to China, Suzhou next year!!!
My elder boy is in P1 this year and is doing very well in school.
My younger boy is only in n1. Can anyone with similar relocation experience please advice me if it is wise to go ahead with the relocation?
My worry is whether my elder boy can do well enough when we bring him back to the local education system here when he is in P5 or P6. As for my n1 boy, he will be totally geared to the international school’s system which they will be enrolled in Wuxi. His problem will be worse, I thought, since he won’t be exposed to S’pore education system until he come back when he is in P2. They will attend the Suzhou Singapore International School in Suzhou. Anyone with advice?
Thank you very much.

Reply to Returning S'porean kids from China on Mon, 09 Nov 2009 14:41:48 GMT

allegro — Mon, 09 Nov 2009 14:41:48 GMT

Hi sorry for late response… haven’t been checking back lately.

Mommy Ng, I sent you a pm.

For the daddy relocating to Chengdu, you can apply for LOA by downloading the form, and paying whole year fees at the school. You have to do it by Dec if I’m not wrong. Can call and check. Pls insist on a receipt and do KEEP the receipt! It’ll also be helpful to find out who’re the teachers and get their contact details, email etc.

Reply to Returning S'porean kids from China on Fri, 06 Nov 2009 06:46:56 GMT

mommyNg — Fri, 06 Nov 2009 06:46:56 GMT

Hi I think you have to submit a form to the school and then pay a year of school fees (usually) in advance. LOA must be renewed every year (not automatic). The form can be found on MOE website:

http://www.moe.gov.sg/education/admissions/returning-singaporeans/#leave-of-absence

I'm still waiting for more responses about schools in Shanghai!!!
*hint hint Allegro*

thanks!

Reply to Returning S'porean kids from China on Thu, 05 Nov 2009 09:29:47 GMT

wa_si_kiasu_lau_peh — Thu, 05 Nov 2009 09:29:47 GMT

Thanks for all the info from many parents here. I’m going to accept a new job in China (Chengdu, anyone from this forum working there now?). I actually plan to apply LOA for my 2 kids, question is how do i apply for it? just talk to the school directly?

Also if anyone in Chengdu can recommend me which school over there is good so that my kids can continue their education.

Reply to Returning S'porean kids from China on Sat, 31 Oct 2009 06:13:14 GMT

mommyNg — Sat, 31 Oct 2009 06:13:14 GMT

Thanks allegro!

Do you know what it means when your friends said YK Pao is over-rated? Which local schools with international division would you recommend that is more closely matched to SG standards? I would prefer somewhere in Puxi if possible… I also heard there is another elementary school very near jingan temple that is supposedly very good. Do you know about it?

Hmm… Soong Ching Ling kindergarten? They have one branch at Puxi, right? Is for 4-6 years old? How does it compare with the Julia & Gabriel in Shanghai? Oooo… and the fees at Soong Ching Ling kindergarten is expensive! 120,000 RMB per year for kindergarten and above!! Any other good preschools around Puxi?

Thanks!

Reply to Returning S'porean kids from China on Fri, 23 Oct 2009 07:32:53 GMT

Poonie — Fri, 23 Oct 2009 07:32:53 GMT

allegro:
hi Poonie, Soong Ching Ling is world class. Not middle of path. It's actually right up there, ivy league, i think better than our top preschools in sg.

There's a local division which a lot of guanxi is needed to get in, and there's an international div which a lot of money is needed to get in. If budget is not a problem, do visit the school and register early. I heard of cases where they \"misplaced\" registered forms, so you should pay fees as early as poss (not just deposit) to secure a place.

Yr other qn: Yes, chinese is strong in local schools with international division. English somewhat weaker but I think you can always beef up at home.

Allegro (you play an instrument?)

Thanks for the info. Will check out the fee, that is if there is a Soong Ching Ling in the place we are going to. I only know there is one in Shanghai.

Reply to Returning S'porean kids from China on Fri, 23 Oct 2009 03:33:04 GMT

allegro — Fri, 23 Oct 2009 03:33:04 GMT

hi Poonie, Soong Ching Ling is world class. Not middle of path. It’s actually right up there, ivy league, i think better than our top preschools in sg.

There’s a local division which a lot of guanxi is needed to get in, and there’s an international div which a lot of money is needed to get in. If budget is not a problem, do visit the school and register early. I heard of cases where they "misplaced" registered forms, so you should pay fees as early as poss (not just deposit) to secure a place.

Yr other qn: Yes, chinese is strong in local schools with international division. English somewhat weaker but I think you can always beef up at home.

Reply to Returning S'porean kids from China on Thu, 22 Oct 2009 08:13:10 GMT

Poonie — Thu, 22 Oct 2009 08:13:10 GMT

Allegro, thanks.

S$300 to S$600 to hire an ah yi is not cheap! I presume this is live-in maids you are referring to.

Is the emphasis in Chinese very high in the middle-path type of schools? Is Soong Chin Ling School a middle-path type?

Reply to Returning S'porean kids from China on Wed, 21 Oct 2009 10:24:43 GMT

allegro — Wed, 21 Oct 2009 10:24:43 GMT

MommyNg, sounds like you are based elsewhere right now?

1. YK Pao and Dulwich - different as chalk and cheese. YK Pao tries to position themselves as the best of both worlds - local (rigorous) curriculum + international (angmoh) standards. I think they're still trying to live up to it. Friends who send their kids there say it's over-rated and over-priced.

Dulwich, together with SAS, are the 2 most highly-regarded international schools in SH so far. Pricey too. Sg friends there report their kids have not much affinity for chinese, pretty much the same way as sg kids here.

There're local schools with int'l division like Shanghai United and Shanghai High, but the verdict is still out if they're good enough to seamlessly transit the child back to Sg system.

Moving back to Sg - my kids have no problems assimilating, but maybe coz they're still young?

Poonie, legally you cannot bring your maid there to work. China will never issue work visas for foreign maids when they hv such a huge population of ppl trying to find work. If you do, you run the risk that other ayis will report on you and the family could get deported. Not worth it.

It was something I grappled with, tried to work around, in the end I just settled with hiring an ayi from Anhui. Yes they have their peculiarities, a lot of pride, and different ideas of what maids are. But overall my ayi was reliable, honest and a great cook. Over there, we always moan and joke about our ayi horror stories, end of the day, it boils down to luck and patience. Pretty much like our maid situation here too.

Yup I photostated her ID and got her home tel nbr etc. I hired her through word of mouth.

Salary - in SH, be prepared to pay RMB 1,800 to 3000 for an ayi. More if they'd worked for angmohs. Most of us hire ayis from the neighbouring provinces, not local shanghainese.

Reply to Returning S'porean kids from China on Wed, 21 Oct 2009 01:10:11 GMT

Poonie — Wed, 21 Oct 2009 01:10:11 GMT

Thank you all for your tips and advice. My kids are in lower primary. What are the costs per annum for the various types of school? If we opt for local chinese school, will they be able to understand the Math and Science questions?

About maid - is it better to get a xiao ah yi there or bring our own maid from Singapore. Heard xiao ah yi is about SGD300. Is that true? Do they have a poor reputation? Someone advised me to make a copy of their ID but is that good enough security? As for our own maid from Singapore, do I continue to pay levy?

Reply to Returning S'porean kids from China on Tue, 20 Oct 2009 17:54:39 GMT

mommyNg — Tue, 20 Oct 2009 17:54:39 GMT

allegro, thanks for sharing! Did you just come back from Shanghai? I may have plans to move there, so your advice will be very useful!

1. Which schools would you recommend in Shanghai that have strong English and Maths? Have you heard about YK Pao school (that has an international division) and would you recommend it? How about Dulwich? How would you compare them? Especially if you have plans to move back to SG in the future.

2. I suppose the LoA scheme experience may differ depends on the individual schools? My dd1 went back this summer hols for P1 and the teachers and staff were very helpful. I emailed the teacher earlier in the year and sent her some dd1’s pictures and my dd’s short write-up about herself and she "introduced" my dd to the class so that when she is back she is no "stranger" to the classmates. The admin staff even offered to lend us their "spare" school uniforms since they said it didn’t make sense for us to buy new sets since we were only there for a short period of time. But I agree with you that it is hard to get worksheets and tests on a regularly basis when we were overseas, but I assumed the teachers are really overwhelmed with work at school, though my dd form teacher usually is pretty good in responding to emails.

3. So back to my question, which schools in Shanghai would you recommend that would best facilitate the moving back to SG by P4? How difficult is it to be able to enroll the kids to good SG secondary schools (such as those with IP programs) when they come back? And what should we do to help the kids? Would it be better off to enroll them in international schools instead of local neighbour schools (assuming $$$ is not an issue)…?

4. Lastly, probably a less examined but no less important issue, do kids have problems adjusting to the social demands when they move back to SG, e.g. cliques that they can’t break into, target of (relational, for girls) bully, way of teaching and communication, etc.?

Thanks!!!

Reply to Returning S'porean kids from China on Tue, 20 Oct 2009 16:45:02 GMT

allegro — Tue, 20 Oct 2009 16:45:02 GMT

I have first hand experience in relocating to China and then back to SG again. But my kids are still quite young, one of them is back in primary school here thanks to LOA scheme. Here’s mine and some friends’ experience:

1. School in China
A lot depends on what type of schools you enrol your kids in China. Local schools - he’ll be strong in Math and Chinese. Local school with international division - kind of the middle path. Full international school - Chinese may not be the focus.

But every international school has its own strength and weakness, so it’s hard to generalise. You may be surprised to know that the Singapore school in shanghai is actually weak in English despite following the Sg’s (old) English syllabus. And the famous hongkong international school is weak in everything right up to secondary levels, except Chinese.

You can find out a lot by talking to other expats there, especially Asian expats. Parents usually only find out the real standards when their children move back home, or switch to another school, and struggle.

2. Leave of Absence scheme in Sg
I encountered a lot of difficulty getting the school here to send me up to date worksheets, tests and what-nots. I really got the impression that the school didn’t care much for LOA students, despite the govt’s sincere attempts to support us. I sent my kid back to school every summer hol, but we were really on our own. The communication was dismal, my emails went unanswered by the teachers, I had to chase (beg) repeatedly for worksheets and tests and even for a simple transitlink card! It was up to me to find out what went on in school during our absence. It’s like they know you won’t be staying long anyway, so it was all very patronizing. Quite disappointed to say the least. But of course, once we came back for good, it was a different story.

I paid fees and bought books every year, just to be in the know what was being taught in Sg.

3. Relocating back to SG
If your kid comes back by P3 or P4, there’s a good chance he can still catch up. But many S’poreans do not want to come back at P5 or P6. If at all, they will wait till after PSLE year. I have friends who successfully enrolled their kids into secondary schools in SG without having done PSLE. And the kids still come back every summer for immersion prog. These are usually your neighbourhood schools.

Reply to Returning S'porean kids from China on Sat, 17 Oct 2009 06:12:28 GMT

mommyNg — Sat, 17 Oct 2009 06:12:28 GMT

Great suggestions JHFMum!

Poonie, how old are your kids now? And which part of China you are thinking of relocating? It does seem like a lot of work to do on your part if you want to keep the option of getting your kids back to Singapore system later, but it may be well worth the effort just to keep the family together???

Reply to Returning S'porean kids from China on Sat, 17 Oct 2009 06:01:16 GMT

JHFMum — Sat, 17 Oct 2009 06:01:16 GMT

Poonie:
Thank you all for your feedback.

Seems like I might have to seriously think very hard before deciding to relocate with my kids. Downgrading by 1-2 levels upon return to Singapore after a few years does seem like a real possibility. Coupled with that I've also heard that they might be downgraded when they join a local school there as their Chinese standard will not be good enough to handle Maths and Science let alone yu wen as a subject . So all in they will be behind their peers by 3-5 years in future.

It really depends on the type of schs you send the kids to. I've known of friends who have been relocated there and have now returned. Their kids are doing fine in our S'pore schs- inclusive of IP and good autonmous sch. In fact instead of downgrading, the children upon their return are a yr younger than their classmates. A few things they do that you may want to consider:
- If financially possible, send them to international schools or private schs with English. In some state, we have our own S'pore schs there.
- Do not withdraw them from their current school. Instead apply for Leave of Absence. You can also request that sch sends you the worksheets, tests and exams- of course you need to pay fees.
- Alternatively, buy our S'pore textbooks and assessments books so that they remain in touch with our system, esp English.
- During vacation, let the kids return to singapore and join the school for lessons. Our terms are different from China schs. This will also let your kids touch base with their friends.

With some careful planning, you need not worry too much. China stds are pretty high too, esp Chinese, Maths and science. You only need to worry about English.

Reply to Returning S'porean kids from China on Fri, 16 Oct 2009 20:33:17 GMT

usaik — Fri, 16 Oct 2009 20:33:17 GMT

I know of a friend from China who is planning to relocate his kid from China.

In view of the difference in the education system, his strategy is to downgrade his kid by 1-2 level like many of his friends who relocate their kids from China to SG. By downgrading his kid by 1-2 levels, the kid would be able to cope better even though he might be able to make it at the same level in term of English. As for the other areas, this kid would actually be much more stronger than the local kids.

This strategy was recommended to him by one of his friend whose kid because of this strategy, had done very well in the Singapore Education system. The child eventually got a scholarship from Singapore to do his undergrad study in a renowed US Uni.

Reply to Returning S'porean kids from China on Fri, 16 Oct 2009 06:31:39 GMT

Poonie — Fri, 16 Oct 2009 06:31:39 GMT

Thank you all for your feedback.

Seems like I might have to seriously think very hard before deciding to relocate with my kids. Downgrading by 1-2 levels upon return to Singapore after a few years does seem like a real possibility. Coupled with that I’ve also heard that they might be downgraded when they join a local school there as their Chinese standard will not be good enough to handle Maths and Science let alone yu wen as a subject . So all in they will be behind their peers by 3-5 years in future.

Reply to Returning S'porean kids from China on Thu, 15 Oct 2009 05:05:29 GMT

mrswongtuition — Thu, 15 Oct 2009 05:05:29 GMT

Just to share, I currently have a student who is local, but spent all his life in China due to his parents’ work nature.

He’s 10 this year, supposed to be in P5 next year. Pending an entrance exam into our local school in early Nov.

What his parents did back in China:
- engaged private tutors to tutor him in English since he was 3yo (native speakers)
- got relatives to send SG textbooks/workbooks/assessment books to them & they’ll go through with him, seeking help via webcam with SG teachers/tutors when they have problems

Now he’s back in SG to prepare for the entrance tests.
I’ve given him school exam papers & he can get average of 70 for English, Maths & Science. He’s still weak at story sums (problem sums) and comprehension. For Science, he knows the answers but does not express it correctly in writing.
His ‘problems’ are small & managable. He can definitely do much better with guidance on the local system.

He studied in non-private school back in China. His chinese standard is really high! His spoken English has an accent but his written English is generally alright.

What’s important is how parents coach & teach at home to ensure that the child has knowledge of what is being taught in SG also.

Reply to Returning S'porean kids from China on Thu, 15 Oct 2009 02:03:47 GMT

schellen — Thu, 15 Oct 2009 02:03:47 GMT

Poonie, my experience is with sec sch students.

The PRC students I met before were slightly older than their classmates. They had to "downgrade" as their English was not up to par at the beginning. They had difficulty in Science and Maths not because they are weak in those subjects but because they were hindered by their weak English. Once the questions were translated for them, they had no problem solving them.

They also had problems in Combined Humanities. For this 2-in-1 subject, even Singaporean students who are weak in English will have difficulty, so can you imagine the increased level of difficulty for a PRC student?

However, some of these students worked very hard and actively used English so they could not only pass English at ‘O’ Level, a few of them even managed to beat their Singaporean classmates. Those who couldn’t be bothered to improve their language skills failed terribly and the scores for their English-based subjects suffered as well.

These PRC students were in a neighbourhood school which did not offer HMT so during MT lessons, they were free to do other work/revise English. They still sat for the HMT paper at ‘O’ Level but they had to study on their own for it (which was no problem in their case).

Ultimately, whether the students can cope when they come/return to Singapore depends on their proficiency of English at the point of entry/return, the resources available to them and to a large extent, their attitude towards English and schoolwork.

Reply to Returning S'porean kids from China on Wed, 14 Oct 2009 19:06:54 GMT

mommyNg — Wed, 14 Oct 2009 19:06:54 GMT

I think it really depends how old the kids are when they arrive in China, how long they stay there before coming back to Singapore. My dh’s colleague and family of 3 went there for a couple of years. The eldest was in P1/P2 then, and coping at the local chinese school was ok. But now that she is almost 11, I think the parents expressed concern whether the child could cope with the English, Maths and Science (in English) if they were to send the kid back. Her Chinese is superb, but other subjects, especially Maths & Science in English are difficult to catch up. So even they have a space for the eldest dd in a very good Singapore primary school, it looks like they are not planning to send her back. Instead, they just switched her to a local Chinese school with an international division, leading to a possible IB (international Baccalaureate) option.

Reply to Returning S'porean kids from China on Wed, 14 Oct 2009 15:59:55 GMT

waterfall — Wed, 14 Oct 2009 15:59:55 GMT

Poonie:
Hi,

Do you know of Singaporean friends whose kids studied in China local schools before returning to Singapore? Heard all the subjects are conducted in Chinese? With our kids' lower Chinese standard did they have to downgrade a couple of levels? How long did it take before they could cope with Maths and Science which are also taught in Chinese? When they eventually returned to Singapore could they catch up with the local system?

Hope parents here who have first-hand experience or knowledge can provide me with some info please. Thanks.

He won't catch up english at all even if he had english enrichment outside. the standard is different.

If he/she pass the lauguage barrier, the math will be beyond singapore standard.

have no idea abt science.

hope it helps.

Reply to Returning S'porean kids from China on Wed, 14 Oct 2009 14:53:22 GMT

amylqf — Wed, 14 Oct 2009 14:53:22 GMT

I am not sure about singapore kids back from China.

My Taiwan friend’s daughter and son did downgrade 2 years because of language issue. hope it helps.