SAHM_TAN:

dd1 washes her school shoes at the start of p2. She will also wash her socks every day.


dd1 will sometimes volunteers to wash the dishes. So does ds.

They will sweep the floor if they dirty it.

Most of their cleanings I close both eyes. But the results are getting better.

janet_lee88:

it's more of his character building which i am keeping tabs on.

janet_lee88:

i remind my son to work damn hard...because it would be VERY hard for him to survive when prices escalate faster than the salary. would he able to afford to eat at food courts, watch a movie, buy a flat ???

floppy:

janet_lee88:

in this little red dot, i really wonder whether we need so many airports :?

Yes, because we are an aviation hub and to keep growing/maintaining that hub, we need a bigger airport.

The size of an airport hub has nothing to do with the size of the country or it's population.

janet_lee88:

in this little red dot, i really wonder whether we need so many airports :?

pirated:

atrecord:

[quote=\"Dora1\"]

Precisely. If the grads feel flats are not affordable, then the rest of the people are going to be even worse off.
But then, to be fair, the gov is precisely addressing this by giving whatever extra bonus to the lower to middle income. However, the problem I have with these subsidy schemes is there are always people who will just narrowly miss the subsidy and end up a lot worse than people who earn just 500 lesser than them. We may end up being like some countries where the lower-middle income people don't want to work hard because they don't want to exceed the income brackets for subsidies.
The better long term approach should be to ensure that the entire property market don't spiral so much higher than our pay increment. It is not easy in this international financial climate of money printing, but this should be the long term goal rather than giving subsidies.

Yes, it does surprise me that even grads are complaining so much about how difficult it is for them to get a flat. The non-grads must generally be struggling...

But it was mentioned also that part of the problem is that people are too fussy now, in that they want to choose convenience therefore look at matured estates where resale flats are very expensive - rather than look at new flats in new estates where they are more affordable? Not sure if the 'more affordable' ones are really affordable though.

pirated:

ahkeong:

prices of flats now vs the rise of our salary over the yrs.. does it keep up?


bought my 4rm @$144k back in 2007.. anywhere with that kinda price now?
how much has our salary risen during the same period?

it was already that kind of prices in the 90s...and in the 90s the salary was way below yours now....

so your salary has gone up but not the HDB prices

Nebbermind:

SO if govt wants more kids, they should model their policies around single income, especially if the policies is targeted to help the lower income group.

ahkeong:

prices of flats now vs the rise of our salary over the yrs.. does it keep up?


bought my 4rm @$144k back in 2007.. anywhere with that kinda price now?
how much has our salary risen during the same period?

atrecord:

Dora1:

Precisely. If the grads feel flats are not affordable, then the rest of the people are going to be even worse off.
But then, to be fair, the gov is precisely addressing this by giving whatever extra bonus to the lower to middle income. However, the problem I have with these subsidy schemes is there are always people who will just narrowly miss the subsidy and end up a lot worse than people who earn just 500 lesser than them. We may end up being like some countries where the lower-middle income people don't want to work hard because they don't want to exceed the income brackets for subsidies.
The better long term approach should be to ensure that the entire property market don't spiral so much higher than our pay increment. It is not easy in this international financial climate of money printing, but this should be the long term goal rather than giving subsidies.

Yes, it does surprise me that even grads are complaining so much about how difficult it is for them to get a flat. The non-grads must generally be struggling...

But it was mentioned also that part of the problem is that people are too fussy now, in that they want to choose convenience therefore look at matured estates where resale flats are very expensive - rather than look at new flats in new estates where they are more affordable? Not sure if the 'more affordable' ones are really affordable though.

ahkeong:

prices of flats now vs the rise of our salary over the yrs.. does it keep up?


bought my 4rm @$144k back in 2007.. anywhere with that kinda price now?
how much has our salary risen during the same period?

Dora1:

Precisely. If the grads feel flats are not affordable, then the rest of the people are going to be even worse off.
But then, to be fair, the gov is precisely addressing this by giving whatever extra bonus to the lower to middle income. However, the problem I have with these subsidy schemes is there are always people who will just narrowly miss the subsidy and end up a lot worse than people who earn just 500 lesser than them. We may end up being like some countries where the lower-middle income people don't want to work hard because they don't want to exceed the income brackets for subsidies.
The better long term approach should be to ensure that the entire property market don't spiral so much higher than our pay increment. It is not easy in this international financial climate of money printing, but this should be the long term goal rather than giving subsidies.

Nebbermind:

Dora1:

I think using the median annual income as a measure of affordability will indicate whether HDB is now more affordable or not. I think KBW himself have conceded that HDB is less affordable now then maybe 10 years ago, that is why he said his target is 4x annual income of applicants.
Anyway, no need to go back to our parents time's lah. Just 10 years ago, starting pay for fresh grad for my field was around $2.5-2.8K. My HDB 5 room flat was around $200K (non matured estate). Assume couple pay at $5K, the ratio was is 200/(2x 2.5X13)=3.
Fast forward to today. A BTO just opp my house 2 years ago was selling at $400K average. Starting fresh grad pay for my field is about $3.2-3.5K. Even if I assume combined salary of $7K, ratio is now 4.4.
Housing price increasing much faster than salary increase - this is precisely the political sorepoint. And something they have to address before 2016.

That's if you look at grads. But a typical office has many non-grads who are not getting that much, and with low promotion prospect, yearly increment also a few tens only. And if they have more than 2 kids, it probably make more sense to be SAHM than to work and pay for CC.
SO if govt wants more kids, they should model their policies around single income, especially if the policies is targeted to help the lower income group.

Dora1:

I think using the median annual income as a measure of affordability will indicate whether HDB is now more affordable or not. I think KBW himself have conceded that HDB is less affordable now then maybe 10 years ago, that is why he said his target is 4x annual income of applicants.
Anyway, no need to go back to our parents time's lah. Just 10 years ago, starting pay for fresh grad for my field was around $2.5-2.8K. My HDB 5 room flat was around $200K (non matured estate). Assume couple pay at $5K, the ratio was is 200/(2x 2.5X13)=3.
Fast forward to today. A BTO just opp my house 2 years ago was selling at $400K average. Starting fresh grad pay for my field is about $3.2-3.5K. Even if I assume combined salary of $7K, ratio is now 4.4.
Housing price increasing much faster than salary increase - this is precisely the political sorepoint. And something they have to address before 2016.

atrecord:

i hope that prices of property remains/becomes affordable too, but am not a economist myself so can't profess to be good at predicting how prices will go.


But I think that our parents who first heard of govt selling (3-rm) flats at $6,000 40+ yr ago, could have thought that price was not cheap. And when prices went up to $60,000 (for 4-rm) 15 yr later, must have thought that prices have become ridiculous. But now it (4-rm) is close to $300,000. On this trend, i'm not sure if it has definitely plateaued yet leh...

On the property launches, I dare say that a lot of the buyers are investors, who are easily reducing the available pool of new properties available for genuine upgraders by perhaps up to half of what is launched. Once supply reduces, you can be sure prices will go up. Unless these people cannot hold on to the properties for too long and need to sell urgently, they are not likely to sell cheaper than the price they bought at...