<![CDATA[police probe empty election box]]>Tan Cheng Bock: My voters have a right to know


https://www.facebook.com/TanChengBock

Why make a police report?

Empty ballot boxes are not “controlled items” : Chun Sing. ST Tuesday September 17, 2013
Explaining in Parliament on the discovery of 5 empty ballot boxes in a school storeroom, he told the house that after the voting slips from these boxes, had been transferred out to a separate set of boxes after counting, these boxes were considered as not “controlled items”.
They were left to the contractor to dispose of these items. Apparently, there was a lapse in the procedure and 5 empty boxes were left behind in the storeroom. This was “an oversight by working personnel” he said, but not a breach of law.

PMO brushes off these empty ballot boxes as not “controlled items” that can be discarded “just like any other boxes” as it had no more relevance in the electoral process.
However the initial response by Election Department reflected the seriousness of the issue when a police report was made. It must be important enough to file this police report.
If election department had always treated the boxes as not controlled items “just like any other boxes”, what prompted them to file an urgent police report?
Singaporeans are puzzled by the serious view taken by the Election Department and Minister’s matter of fact response.
These boxes must always remain as controlled items to ensure complete transparency of the electoral process.
My voters in the PE2011 where this incident happened have the right to know.

]]>https://forum.kiasuparents.com/topic/61249/police-probe-empty-election-boxRSS for NodeSun, 25 Oct 2026 10:39:53 GMTThu, 19 Sep 2013 06:10:23 GMT60<![CDATA[Reply to police probe empty election box on Wed, 18 Sep 2013 04:44:58 GMT]]>

Nebbermind:
Are these ordinary boxes or with special seals? Can these boxes be filled and smuggled into and rig the next election?

You guys know that \"seals\" are just stickers that are practically impossible to remove without tearing or breaking the stickers, right? Once they are stuck on the box, they are useless for the next election.

Now, somebody go find us a roll of unused seals lying about somewhere... :razz:

]]>https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/1098128https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/1098128Wed, 18 Sep 2013 04:44:58 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to police probe empty election box on Wed, 18 Sep 2013 03:20:17 GMT]]>

AC_Power:
concern2:

[quote=\"AC_Power\"]
Having these boxes lying around, in my humble opinion, shows a lacking in procedure to ensure that the unused boxes are disposed accordingly, rather than a lapse in the electorial process.

:scratchhead: Is there any difference between the two?

Yes. A lapse in the electorial process might cause the electorial result to be, or can be, rigged.

A lack in the disposal procedure of the emptied ballot boxes will never result in the above.[/quote]How to determine if the box is empty? By shaking them? No sound means empty?
😆 Anyway, who determines that they are empty? A few people shake them to confirm they are empty? :rotflmao:
Or were they being transported from the polling stations and dumped aside since they weren't used?

]]>https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/1098074https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/1098074Wed, 18 Sep 2013 03:20:17 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to police probe empty election box on Wed, 18 Sep 2013 02:46:02 GMT]]>then again sometimes such incidents really depends on the reader’s own perception.

]]>https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/1098058https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/1098058Wed, 18 Sep 2013 02:46:02 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to police probe empty election box on Wed, 18 Sep 2013 02:37:37 GMT]]>

concern2:
AC_Power:


Having these boxes lying around, in my humble opinion, shows a lacking in procedure to ensure that the unused boxes are disposed accordingly, rather than a lapse in the electorial process.

:scratchhead: Is there any difference between the two?

Yes. A lapse in the electorial process might cause the electorial result to be, or can be, rigged.

A lack in the disposal procedure of the emptied ballot boxes will never result in the above.

]]>https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/1098053https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/1098053Wed, 18 Sep 2013 02:37:37 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to police probe empty election box on Wed, 18 Sep 2013 02:37:04 GMT]]>imho, of course there is a difference. one is votes counted take out, put in another secure box under lock and seal; this box throw away, the other means these boxes supposed to be under lock and seal all the way.

]]>https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/1098052https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/1098052Wed, 18 Sep 2013 02:37:04 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to police probe empty election box on Wed, 18 Sep 2013 02:32:55 GMT]]>

AC_Power:

Having these boxes lying around, in my humble opinion, shows a lacking in procedure to ensure that the unused boxes are disposed accordingly, rather than a lapse in the electorial process.
:scratchhead: Is there any difference between the two?

]]>https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/1098047https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/1098047Wed, 18 Sep 2013 02:32:55 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to police probe empty election box on Wed, 18 Sep 2013 02:27:04 GMT]]>

Nebbermind:


Need not be the PAP. Just need someone who is interested in challenging the system...rather, the failure of the process....

if these boxes have special seals, I donch see why they are NOT controlled items and auditable (correct term?).

BTW, the report said they found some more in 5 others schools.[quote]After the discovery of the leftover boxes, Chan said the Elections Department conducted further checks of the 164 schools used as counting centres during the 2011 election and discovered an additional five schools where boxes were found undisposed
[/quote]Stand corrected but I do not think these boxes are controlled items.

These boxes contained the votes cast at polling centres and each of them are labelled where are they collected from. At the end of the polling, these boxes are sealed before being transported to the counting centres. At the centre, the candidates and their agents are invited to inspect the boxes to ensure that there isn't any tampering done to the seals. Once they are satisfied, the boxes are opened and votes from all the polling centres poured out and mixed before counting begins.

At the end of the counting, the votes are then packed and stored back into the boxes (in a specified quantity), sealed and sent to the court for safekeeping for 6 months. During the repacking process, some of the boxes would not be used and by right, should be disposed off by the vendor which in this case, wasn't ensured.

Having these boxes lying around, in my humble opinion, shows a lacking in procedure to ensure that the unused boxes are disposed accordingly, rather than a lapse in the electorial process.

]]>https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/1098043https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/1098043Wed, 18 Sep 2013 02:27:04 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to police probe empty election box on Wed, 18 Sep 2013 02:16:08 GMT]]>

winchester:

cast doubt on the system it did and irreparable damage already done. might be sabo job.
Wow. Like in tempering with the cables in the MRT case?

]]>https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/1098036https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/1098036Wed, 18 Sep 2013 02:16:08 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to police probe empty election box on Wed, 18 Sep 2013 02:13:04 GMT]]>

Nebbermind:

BTW, the report said they found some more in 5 others schools.[quote]After the discovery of the leftover boxes, Chan said the Elections Department conducted further checks of the 164 schools used as counting centres during the 2011 election and discovered an additional five schools where boxes were found undisposed
[/quote] :yikes: :yikes:

]]>https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/1098035https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/1098035Wed, 18 Sep 2013 02:13:04 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to police probe empty election box on Wed, 18 Sep 2013 02:11:09 GMT]]>

Nebbermind:
AC_Power:

[quote=\"Nebbermind\"]Are these ordinary boxes or with special seals? Can these boxes be filled and smuggled into and rig the next election?


If these boxes are reused in the next election, they would have to make some of the original boxes \"disappear\" before they can replace them with these tampered boxes.

Honestly, I do not think so this will happen lah. PAP government has a few policies I do not agree with but as far as integrity is concern, I never doubt them.

Need not be the PAP. Just need someone who is interested in challenging the system...rather, the failure of the process....

if these boxes have special seals, I donch see why they are NOT controlled items and auditable (correct term?).

BTW, the report said they found some more in 5 others schools.[quote]After the discovery of the leftover boxes, Chan said the Elections Department conducted further checks of the 164 schools used as counting centres during the 2011 election and discovered an additional five schools where boxes were found undisposed[/quote][/quote]cast doubt on the system it did and irreparable damage already done. might be sabo job.

]]>https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/1098034https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/1098034Wed, 18 Sep 2013 02:11:09 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to police probe empty election box on Wed, 18 Sep 2013 02:00:12 GMT]]>

AC_Power:
Nebbermind:

Are these ordinary boxes or with special seals? Can these boxes be filled and smuggled into and rig the next election?


If these boxes are reused in the next election, they would have to make some of the original boxes \"disappear\" before they can replace them with these tampered boxes.

Honestly, I do not think so this will happen lah. PAP government has a few policies I do not agree with but as far as integrity is concern, I never doubt them.

Need not be the PAP. Just need someone who is interested in challenging the system...rather, the failure of the process....

if these boxes have special seals, I donch see why they are NOT controlled items and auditable (correct term?).

BTW, the report said they found some more in 5 others schools.[quote]After the discovery of the leftover boxes, Chan said the Elections Department conducted further checks of the 164 schools used as counting centres during the 2011 election and discovered an additional five schools where boxes were found undisposed[/quote]

]]>https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/1098028https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/1098028Wed, 18 Sep 2013 02:00:12 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to police probe empty election box on Wed, 18 Sep 2013 01:45:14 GMT]]>

Nebbermind:
Are these ordinary boxes or with special seals? Can these boxes be filled and smuggled into and rig the next election?

Good question. Maybe someone wanted to keep them as souvenirs then forgot to bring them back 😆

]]>https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/1098016https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/1098016Wed, 18 Sep 2013 01:45:14 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to police probe empty election box on Wed, 18 Sep 2013 01:25:28 GMT]]>

Nebbermind:
Are these ordinary boxes or with special seals? Can these boxes be filled and smuggled into and rig the next election?

If these boxes are reused in the next election, they would have to make some of the original boxes \"disappear\" before they can replace them with these tampered boxes.

Honestly, I do not think so this will happen lah. PAP government has a few policies I do not agree with but as far as integrity is concern, I never doubt them.

]]>https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/1098007https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/1098007Wed, 18 Sep 2013 01:25:28 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to police probe empty election box on Wed, 18 Sep 2013 00:53:21 GMT]]>Are these ordinary boxes or with special seals? Can these boxes be filled and smuggled into and rig the next election?

]]>https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/1097987https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/1097987Wed, 18 Sep 2013 00:53:21 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to police probe empty election box on Tue, 17 Sep 2013 23:56:06 GMT]]>Compare this empty election boxes to the hawker cleaning disputes...

Which one is more waste of time?
Or the same?

:?

]]>https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/1097956https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/1097956Tue, 17 Sep 2013 23:56:06 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to police probe empty election box on Tue, 17 Sep 2013 23:48:52 GMT]]>

raysusan:
Tan Jee Say:

Empty ballot boxes : conveniently dismissed as \"not a lapse\"


...The first obvious question is why was he replying on behalf of the Prime Minister. The question was specifically directed at the PM as the Elections Department comes under the PMO. The PM should be the one answering to Parliament unless he was physically unwell or was otherwise engaged in critical national matters on the day. But this was not the case as he was seen in Parliament in good spirit celebrating his father's 90th birthday.
If most people are acceptable with his \"belittlement\" of the issue and think the issue is a waste of time, then it doesn't really need the PM to even bat an eyelid. It doesn't even matter if people who are batting their eyelids think it is an unacceptable explanation. Birthday celebration more important. The rest can wait - or waive.

]]>https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/1097954https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/1097954Tue, 17 Sep 2013 23:48:52 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to police probe empty election box on Tue, 17 Sep 2013 16:06:08 GMT]]>Tan Jee Say:

Empty ballot boxes : conveniently dismissed as "not a lapse"

There are two troubling aspects about Mr Chan Chun Sing’s reply in Parliament yesterday to Mr Pritam Singh’s question on the empty ballot boxes found in a school two years after the 2011 presidential election.

The first obvious question is why was he replying on behalf of the Prime Minister. The question was specifically directed at the PM as the Elections Department comes under the PMO. The PM should be the one answering to Parliament unless he was physically unwell or was otherwise engaged in critical national matters on the day. But this was not the case as he was seen in Parliament in good spirit celebrating his father’s 90th birthday.

It was a weighty matter deserving a reply from the minister directly in charge of the Elections Department. Was he belittling the issue and in so doing showed disrespect to Parliament? Why? Surely he was fully capable of tackling any follow-up questions? If indeed he was indisposed or unable to reply personally, shouldn’t he delegate the job to one of the three ministers in the PMO rather than to a minister for social and family development, a portfolio that by no stretch of the imagination, is even remotely concerned with the election machinery?

The second troubling aspect was the minister’s assertion that the abandoned empty ballot boxes was "not a lapse". A lapse is a failure to maintain a standard procedure and the Elections Department in its press statement dated 30 August 2013, set out what this procedure was for empty ballot boxes, namely, that "They are supposed to have been collected by the Elections Department’s contractor, along with other discarded items, from the counting centres for general disposal."

Clearly there was a deviation from prescribed practice when the empty ballot boxes were not collected and disposed of. Although the task was outsourced to a contractor, there must be an Elections Department representative who supervised or oversaw the process. In fact, there was a senior officer or supervisor at every polling station and counting centre to account for the boxes. The Elections Department must have felt that something was amiss or it would not have taken the serious step of filing a police report to investigate this matter. Have the police completed their investigation and if so, has the minister told us the full facts of the investigation?

The PM’s reply delivered on his behalf by Mr Chan, has failed to assuage the concerns of members of the public. The control and management of ballots and ballot boxes is crucial in the entire polling process. To dismiss the discovery of unaccounted for empty ballot boxes as not a lapse is to trivialize the requirement ensuring a safe and sound polling process that must enjoy the highest level of public confidence and faith.

]]>https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/1097903https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/1097903Tue, 17 Sep 2013 16:06:08 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to police probe empty election box on Tue, 17 Sep 2013 04:04:50 GMT]]>

kevkevkaf:
yep it is quite robust lah, sometimes its just people wanting to grab hold of the opportunity to make their statements

Yeah. 5 boxes out of how many hundreds or thousands? All the votes cast in those boxes were for TCB?

Complete waste of time.

]]>https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/1097416https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/1097416Tue, 17 Sep 2013 04:04:50 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to police probe empty election box on Tue, 17 Sep 2013 03:29:16 GMT]]>yep it is quite robust lah, sometimes its just people wanting to grab hold of the opportunity to make their statements

]]>https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/1097390https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/1097390Tue, 17 Sep 2013 03:29:16 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to police probe empty election box on Tue, 17 Sep 2013 03:04:54 GMT]]>Finding is quite expected. I do not believe that our electoral system is corrupted in the first place.

]]>https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/1097379https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/1097379Tue, 17 Sep 2013 03:04:54 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to police probe empty election box on Tue, 17 Sep 2013 02:27:48 GMT]]>http://sg.news.yahoo.com/empty-ballot-boxes-in-school--not-a-lapse--in-election-process--chan-chun-sing-113004815.html?utm_content=buffere90c9&utm_source=buffer&utm_medium=facebook&utm_campaign=Buffer

]]>https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/1097351https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/1097351Tue, 17 Sep 2013 02:27:48 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to police probe empty election box on Tue, 03 Sep 2013 02:46:08 GMT]]>I believe it is merely not disposing those ballot boxes according to procedure. Not all boxes will be used in the repacking of the votes after counting.


Honest mistake again. Let's move on 🙂

]]>https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/1088547https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/1088547Tue, 03 Sep 2013 02:46:08 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to police probe empty election box on Tue, 03 Sep 2013 02:39:25 GMT]]>I rather just wait and not waste everyone's time for another PE. The PE is quite inconsequential anyways. 😓

]]>https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/1088540https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/1088540Tue, 03 Sep 2013 02:39:25 GMT