Higher Chinese in P5 - To opt or not

Reply to Higher Chinese in P5 - To opt or not on Sat, 14 Nov 2020 00:11:59 GMT

phtthp — Sat, 14 Nov 2020 00:11:59 GMT

May_IKnow\" post_id=\"2002539\" time=\"1605276819\" user_id=\"189471:

Dear parents, I am new here. Currently desperate for advice thus hunting for this topic. My son is going to P5 next year. In Punggol Primary. Never taken any Chinese tuition before so just now went to one Chinese language learning centre and was recommended higher chinese in P5. His own teacher recommended Standard. His Chinese mark is 82. Can anyone kindly give me some advice, please?

Thank you very much in advance.

Your son has reached the end of his 2020 P4 journey. As a parent, you know your son best.

How is he coping with his 4 Standard Psle subjects so far, besides just looking at his \"solo\" P4 Chinese one single subject, 82 marks alone ?

1) if your son is coping well,

let him learn next year P5 HCL.

Since Primary school HCL is merely an extension of Standard Chinese MOE syllabus-based Vocabulary, and No PSLE HCL Oral is involved, P5 HCL is Not difficult, unlike Secondary school's challenging HCL.

Let your son try out P5 HCL, first.

One year later,
by the time he reach end of P5 and if can't cope, still not too late to drop HCL in P6, if need be.

By when latest, do you need to inform & notify MOE that your son is going to sit for PSLE HCL paper, or not ?

Answer

That will be
around Y2022 P6 April / May mid-year SA1 time-frame,
when parents need to confirm with their class Form Tr, Total which Psle subjects (be it Standard or Foundation Psle subjects) their children are going to sit for, in the National exam.

Your P6 class Form Tr will ask all students to bring home, to show their parents the list of Psle subjects they going to sit for, let parents verify and sign on the form itself in black-and-white for confirmation, before submit the Form back to the class Form Teacher.

Whether you prefer him to take PSLE HCL or not, there & then, your final decision!

2) if your son now is barely coping with 4 Standard subjects, struggling to survive, be realistic, forget about P5 HCL.

Just concentrate on these 4 subjects will do, target to do well under the new \"AL\" PSLE system.

Reply to Higher Chinese in P5 - To opt or not on Fri, 13 Nov 2020 15:01:42 GMT

John Lim — Fri, 13 Nov 2020 15:01:42 GMT

May_IKnow\" post_id=\"2002539\" time=\"1605276819\" user_id=\"189471:

Dear parents, I am new here. Currently desperate for advice thus hunting for this topic. My son is going to P5 next year. In Punggol Primary. Never taken any Chinese tuition before so just now went to one Chinese language learning centre and was recommended higher chinese in P5. His own teacher recommended Standard. His Chinese mark is 82. Can anyone kindly give me some advice, please? Thank you very much in advance.

Don’t waste time & $$$

Reply to Higher Chinese in P5 - To opt or not on Fri, 13 Nov 2020 14:13:39 GMT

May_IKnow — Fri, 13 Nov 2020 14:13:39 GMT

Dear parents, I am new here. Currently desperate for advice thus hunting for this topic. My son is going to P5 next year. In Punggol Primary. Never taken any Chinese tuition before so just now went to one Chinese language learning centre and was recommended higher chinese in P5. His own teacher recommended Standard. His Chinese mark is 82. Can anyone kindly give me some advice, please? Thank you very much in advance.

Reply to Higher Chinese in P5 - To opt or not on Sun, 11 Oct 2020 04:56:15 GMT

doodbug — Sun, 11 Oct 2020 04:56:15 GMT

zac's mum\" post_id=\"1998389\" time=\"1602376281\" user_id=\"53606:[quote=\"zac's mum\" post_id=1998389 time=1602376281 user_id=53606]
doodbug\" post_id=\"1997495\" time=\"1601863302\" user_id=\"13281:
[quote=\"zac's mum\" post_id=1997477 time=1601848039 user_id=53606]

(And I have also heard that, for those who need to take Chinese in JC1, it is much easier than the paper that the HCL students had to take when they were 16 years old. I can’t verify this because I myself was a HCL student, but please ask around.)

I probably am one experiment. I did HCL in Sec 4 and didn't do well.
In JC1, I took BOTH the O level HCL, as well as AO level Standard Chinese - the exams were held like a day apart or something, so there wouldn't be any difference in my language ability. Scored B3 for O level HCL, and A1 for AO level Standard Chinese. This was like in the mid 1990s hahaha.[/quote]

Thanks doodbug for sharing your experience.

Another KSP shared this in another thread today: https://data.gov.sg/dataset/percentage-of-a-level-students-who-passed-mother-tongue-language-at-ao-h1-level?view_id=277d4f32-14bc-4504-b8d6-903cf2895e3b&resource_id=44611e52-4a37-4071-810b-cfbdf858b32a

This looks like concrete data that shows JC1 MT is dead easy to pass. Therefore I don’t see why parents or students are so afraid of “spending time” on MT lessons/exam prep in JC1.[/quote]I think it's not about being afraid, it's about choice....some kids may prefer to have the option of the 'free pocket' of time in JC1 to do project work or other pursuits. To havd this option then it's better to have gotten Chinese out of the way. Time in JC is tight. If one is neutral towards HMT or normal MT is sec sch, it may be useful to just try HMT out. Can drop any tine anyway. Particularly as there are no additional lesson hours.

It's different for IB though as the language criteria requires all to read it during IB studies.

Reply to Higher Chinese in P5 - To opt or not on Sun, 11 Oct 2020 04:43:54 GMT

John Lim — Sun, 11 Oct 2020 04:43:54 GMT

Important info for those weak in chinese language, :thankyou: MOE

Percentage of A-Level Students Who Passed Mother Tongue Language at ‘AO’/‘H1’ Level
https://data.gov.sg/dataset/percentage-of-a-level-students-who-passed-mother-tongue-language-at-ao-h1-level?view_id=277d4f32-14bc-4504-b8d6-903cf2895e3b&resource_id=44611e52-4a37-4071-810b-cfbdf858b32a

Percentage of GCE O-Level Students Who Passed Mother Tongue Language
https://data.gov.sg/dataset/percentage-of-gce-o-level-students-who-passed-mother-tongue-language?view_id=67a722dc-7a84-4ab1-87f6-c4469bb9aa53&resource_id=ba5669ab-8e60-4d0c-b23a-8186b31c99d2

Percentage of PSLE students who scored A* to C in Standard Mother Tongue Language
https://data.gov.sg/dataset/percentage-of-psle-students-who-scored-a-c-by-subject?view_id=d1760437-d250-4daf-b31c-26e11b74f226&resource_id=9aa243d9-5f97-48e9-adbc-ecd3cd4ad06d

Reply to Higher Chinese in P5 - To opt or not on Sun, 11 Oct 2020 02:29:05 GMT

zac's mum — Sun, 11 Oct 2020 02:29:05 GMT

Yes thanks for the link, John Lim!

Reply to Higher Chinese in P5 - To opt or not on Sun, 11 Oct 2020 01:40:33 GMT

John Lim — Sun, 11 Oct 2020 01:40:33 GMT

zac's mum\" post_id=\"1998389\" time=\"1602376281\" user_id=\"53606:[quote=\"zac's mum\" post_id=1998389 time=1602376281 user_id=53606]
doodbug\" post_id=\"1997495\" time=\"1601863302\" user_id=\"13281:
[quote=\"zac's mum\" post_id=1997477 time=1601848039 user_id=53606]

(And I have also heard that, for those who need to take Chinese in JC1, it is much easier than the paper that the HCL students had to take when they were 16 years old. I can’t verify this because I myself was a HCL student, but please ask around.)

I probably am one experiment. I did HCL in Sec 4 and didn't do well.
In JC1, I took BOTH the O level HCL, as well as AO level Standard Chinese - the exams were held like a day apart or something, so there wouldn't be any difference in my language ability. Scored B3 for O level HCL, and A1 for AO level Standard Chinese. This was like in the mid 1990s hahaha.[/quote]

Reply to Higher Chinese in P5 - To opt or not on Sun, 11 Oct 2020 01:18:47 GMT

MerlionInGermany — Sun, 11 Oct 2020 01:18:47 GMT

zac's mum\" post_id=\"1998389\" time=\"1602376281\" user_id=\"53606:[quote=\"zac's mum\" post_id=1998389 time=1602376281 user_id=53606]
This looks like concrete data that shows JC1 MT is dead easy to pass. Therefore I don’t see why parents or students are so afraid of “spending time” on MT lessons/exam prep in JC1.[/quote]

So I know someone who dropped Sec Sch HCL at the end of Sec 3 in 2018, switched to Sec Sch CL in the beginning of Sec 4, studied the syllabus within a year, took the O levels CL exam in the sec 4 year, and managed an A1. Went on to JC1, will be sitting for the H1 CL exam. According to this student, JC CL is a lot easier than sec sch HCL.

If you need to actually put in substantial effort to get a min Merit for pri sch HCL, I guess you would be better off not taking it at all. The time spent in going for JC CL lessons may end up less than the time and agony you need to spend and endure, studying for pri sch HCL and sec sch HCL. And the emotional well being is priceless

Reply to Higher Chinese in P5 - To opt or not on Sun, 11 Oct 2020 00:31:21 GMT

zac's mum — Sun, 11 Oct 2020 00:31:21 GMT

doodbug\" post_id=\"1997495\" time=\"1601863302\" user_id=\"13281:

zac's mum\" post_id=\"1997477\" time=\"1601848039\" user_id=\"53606:[quote=\"zac's mum\" post_id=1997477 time=1601848039 user_id=53606]

(And I have also heard that, for those who need to take Chinese in JC1, it is much easier than the paper that the HCL students had to take when they were 16 years old. I can’t verify this because I myself was a HCL student, but please ask around.)

I probably am one experiment. I did HCL in Sec 4 and didn't do well.
In JC1, I took BOTH the O level HCL, as well as AO level Standard Chinese - the exams were held like a day apart or something, so there wouldn't be any difference in my language ability. Scored B3 for O level HCL, and A1 for AO level Standard Chinese. This was like in the mid 1990s hahaha.[/quote]

Reply to Higher Chinese in P5 - To opt or not on Mon, 05 Oct 2020 12:26:39 GMT

zac's mum — Mon, 05 Oct 2020 12:26:39 GMT

Just to chit chat only...my family is currently watching this on You Tube. 成语接龙赛:

https://youtu.be/0AksulSUv60

The level of 成语 used by these 11-12 year old kids far surpasses even SG O level HCL. I’ve never even heard of half of them!

Reply to Higher Chinese in P5 - To opt or not on Mon, 05 Oct 2020 02:36:16 GMT

sky minecrafter — Mon, 05 Oct 2020 02:36:16 GMT

OT: if the child had to rely on tuition in order to satisfy the criteria to stay in a secondary HCL course, it may be worthwhile to consider zacs mum's advice...

Reply to Higher Chinese in P5 - To opt or not on Mon, 05 Oct 2020 02:06:17 GMT

doodbug — Mon, 05 Oct 2020 02:06:17 GMT

Regarding Sec Sch HCL, I would say (and this applies only to kids progressing towards A levels, not IB), there is a real advantage in clearing the Chinese requirement in Sec 4, as it frees you in JC1 to concentrate on the other subjects and in Project Work, as well as other activities you may enjoy or want to pursue. The time saving is very significant. There is no need to "do well" in HCL in Sec 4 as it is no longer compulsory to include it in the UAS - just pass and clear it and get it out of the way.

Reply to Higher Chinese in P5 - To opt or not on Mon, 05 Oct 2020 02:01:42 GMT

doodbug — Mon, 05 Oct 2020 02:01:42 GMT

zac's mum\" post_id=\"1997477\" time=\"1601848039\" user_id=\"53606:[quote=\"zac's mum\" post_id=1997477 time=1601848039 user_id=53606]

(And I have also heard that, for those who need to take Chinese in JC1, it is much easier than the paper that the HCL students had to take when they were 16 years old. I can’t verify this because I myself was a HCL student, but please ask around.)

[/quote]

I probably am one experiment. I did HCL in Sec 4 and didn't do well.
In JC1, I took BOTH the O level HCL, as well as AO level Standard Chinese - the exams were held like a day apart or something, so there wouldn't be any difference in my language ability. Scored B3 for O level HCL, and A1 for AO level Standard Chinese. This was like in the mid 1990s hahaha.

Reply to Higher Chinese in P5 - To opt or not on Mon, 05 Oct 2020 01:29:16 GMT

phtthp — Mon, 05 Oct 2020 01:29:16 GMT

zac's mum\" post_id=\"1997477\" time=\"1601848039\" user_id=\"53606:[quote=\"zac's mum\" post_id=1997477 time=1601848039 user_id=53606]
From what I have found out, in IB program, there’s the equivalent of Higher Chinese, Standard Chinese, and Chinese B. But they are called 3 different names from OP track.

All of these are supposedly easier than their equivalents in the IP and OP curriculum.

(And I have also heard that, for those who need to take Chinese in JC1, it is much easier than the paper that the HCL students had to take when they were 16 years old. I can’t verify this because I myself was a HCL student, but please ask around.)

In other words, if child is not spectacularly good in Chinese, I don’t see any real need to force him to take HCL. Just the regular Chinese is fine and good.[/quote]

Those students who have scored not-so-satisfactory (B4 or C5 or C6 or D7) grade in their HCL at 16 years old, whether come from (IP or OP) track, if they wish to take on Standard CL in JC1 to improve their grade, if their study work load timetable in JC1 permit, can proceed. It means that per week, you need to attend extra JC1 Chinese lessons, do homework, take Termly tests. But whether it come at the expense of your revision time spent for 3H2 or 4H2 A-level subjects, need to evaluate yourself.

Reply to Higher Chinese in P5 - To opt or not on Mon, 05 Oct 2020 00:04:39 GMT

SG_KP1 — Mon, 05 Oct 2020 00:04:39 GMT

One other thing to consider, depending on the school the HCL class may be very small (~10 to 15 students). Whether this is good or bad, I am not sure. Small class size will be a boost for some kids, as they get more interaction with/help from teacher. On the other hand, students that were near the threshold may have been able to sit quietly, not called on too much in the regular P4 class (may be a positive if this is not a stronger subject). But in a small class size they may be called upon more, need to speak in front of peers often, etc, which could end up being a negative if they are uncomfortable.

Again, I am a supporter but per others’ posts regular CL is definitely just great too.

Reply to Higher Chinese in P5 - To opt or not on Sun, 04 Oct 2020 23:29:34 GMT

janet88 — Sun, 04 Oct 2020 23:29:34 GMT

zac's mum\" post_id=\"1997477\" time=\"1601848039\" user_id=\"53606:[quote=\"zac's mum\" post_id=1997477 time=1601848039 user_id=53606]
In other words, if child is not spectacularly good in Chinese, I don’t see any real need to force him to take HCL. Just the regular Chinese is fine and good.[/quote]

same goes for A math...if not doing fantastic for E math, then forcing the child to take A math would be very tough.

Reply to Higher Chinese in P5 - To opt or not on Sun, 04 Oct 2020 21:47:19 GMT

zac's mum — Sun, 04 Oct 2020 21:47:19 GMT

From what I have found out, in IB program, there’s the equivalent of Higher Chinese, Standard Chinese, and Chinese B. But they are called 3 different names from OP track.

All of these are supposedly easier than their equivalents in the IP and OP curriculum.

(And I have also heard that, for those who need to take Chinese in JC1, it is much easier than the paper that the HCL students had to take when they were 16 years old. I can’t verify this because I myself was a HCL student, but please ask around.)

In other words, if child is not spectacularly good in Chinese, I don’t see any real need to force him to take HCL. Just the regular Chinese is fine and good.

Reply to Higher Chinese in P5 - To opt or not on Sun, 04 Oct 2020 16:20:00 GMT

phtthp — Sun, 04 Oct 2020 16:20:00 GMT

If not taking A-level,

do u still need to bother with HCL,
eg.
those in (SJI or in ACSI ) IB programme ???
(clarify)

But, if want A-level track,

- for IP track,
HCL is compulsory in SAP schools. If disliked Chinese, should choose Non-SAP (IP) schools.

HCL is Not compulsory, in Non-SAP (IP) schools.
E.g.

majority in RI do HCL,
minority in RI don’t do HCL, without MOE letter.

Inside RI, although run IP programme, but not all her IP students are doing HCL.

- for OP track,
optional,
unless students desperately need 2 bonus points for JC admission.

But if O-level students don’t need 2 bonus points, can forget about HCL. Just ensure that they can clinche 2 points for CCA, and do well in their core O-level subjects. Then
continue with Standard CL, in JC1

Reply to Higher Chinese in P5 - To opt or not on Sun, 04 Oct 2020 05:26:22 GMT

SG_KP1 — Sun, 04 Oct 2020 05:26:22 GMT

I am a big supporter of language skills, so my viewpoint is biased. However, I would probably encourage most kids that are near the threshold for inclusion to take the HCL in P5 if they can. Hours of exposure is the biggest hurdle for kids to really advance in any language. Even if it is only one extra class period per week, any additional exposure is a positive.

As others have mentioned, I didn’t see much extra work with the HCL for our older kid. He was definitely in the bottom half of the HCL class, but this is the subject where he has improved the most over the past 2 years. Probably a combination of a) HCL materials making CL easier and b) some motivation to keep up with his peers (some of the PRC kids can score high 90s here with their eyes closed). Net-Net, I feel like the MT subject has a lot of low-hanging fruit if you can just kid the kid somewhat interested in it (vs. being the 1 subject they absolutely hate doing).

Worst case, it seems like they can just revert to CL only in P6? Higher MT also have some advantage in the O-level track too, no? I thought they can deduct 2 points from score, which seemed easier than some of the CCA based deductions.

Reply to Higher Chinese in P5 - To opt or not on Fri, 02 Oct 2020 14:53:20 GMT

phtthp — Fri, 02 Oct 2020 14:53:20 GMT

notknow11\" post_id=\"1997256\" time=\"1601647124\" user_id=\"5956:

Primary hcl is really slightly more than cl only. In fact my ds got a distinction for hcl but only A for cl.

Yes

Primary school HCL is an extension of P6 Standard CL, but don't have any HCL Oral component involved

Reply to Higher Chinese in P5 - To opt or not on Fri, 02 Oct 2020 13:58:44 GMT

notknow11 — Fri, 02 Oct 2020 13:58:44 GMT

Primary hcl is really slightly more than cl only. In fact my ds got a distinction for hcl but only A for cl.

Reply to Higher Chinese in P5 - To opt or not on Fri, 02 Oct 2020 07:52:34 GMT

doodbug — Fri, 02 Oct 2020 07:52:34 GMT

The skills and language build-up are transferable between HCL and CL regardless at Pri Sch or Sec Sch.

Reply to Higher Chinese in P5 - To opt or not on Fri, 02 Oct 2020 07:48:45 GMT

Imp75 — Fri, 02 Oct 2020 07:48:45 GMT

zac's mum\" post_id=\"1997074\" time=\"1601623612\" user_id=\"53606:[quote=\"zac's mum\" post_id=1997074 time=1601623612 user_id=53606]
As I understand it, for PSLE, HCL compre and Compo sections are very different from CL.

The markers’ expectations of the level of language manipulation are also much higher. Eg can’t expect to score a merit or distinction unless your Chinese is super powerful sort.

My DS cannot even answer the inferential questions in CL compre, I don’t think will be chosen anyway lol.[/quote]

No lah. Hcl compo no picture that's all. Hcl better than cl in the sense that there is no oral or LC I feel cos many SG kids can be drilled to write but not to speak at will.

Reply to Higher Chinese in P5 - To opt or not on Fri, 02 Oct 2020 07:26:52 GMT

zac's mum — Fri, 02 Oct 2020 07:26:52 GMT

As I understand it, for PSLE, HCL compre and Compo sections are very different from CL.

The markers’ expectations of the level of language manipulation are also much higher. Eg can’t expect to score a merit or distinction unless your Chinese is super powerful sort.

My DS cannot even answer the inferential questions in CL compre, I don’t think will be chosen anyway lol.