Students died during PE lessons!

Reply to Students died during PE lessons! on Mon, 20 Jan 2014 11:33:56 GMT

zbear — Mon, 20 Jan 2014 11:33:56 GMT

mummy of three:
I think too much stress in our education system already.

Precisely. I have the feeling that these unnatural deaths are not due to undetected illnesses. Its more stress related.

One who had just finished his PSLE a few months ago n the other who is going to take his O levels this year.

I am sure more such cases will happen again.

Reply to Students died during PE lessons! on Mon, 20 Jan 2014 06:17:29 GMT

Funz — Mon, 20 Jan 2014 06:17:29 GMT

jetsetter:
actually cc/kindy teachers should be trained in first aid too!

my nephew's kindy had a case of a 5yo gal who choked on the sweet given to her by the school bus aunty last yr. she arrived at the preschool, suddenly her eyes rolled back and face turned purple! the cc teacher didn't know the Heimlich method of course, so just slapped the back of the girl real hard many times until the sweet got coughed out. such a close shave!

Most are, at least for CCs.

Hiemlich for kid involve whacks to the back between the shoulder blades with the kid bent forward. If item does not dislodge then it is chest thrust. Could the teacher have been doing that and the sweet dislodge when she whacked the back so no need for chest thrust.

Reply to Students died during PE lessons! on Mon, 20 Jan 2014 05:49:17 GMT

jetsetter — Mon, 20 Jan 2014 05:49:17 GMT

actually cc/kindy teachers should be trained in first aid too!

my nephew’s kindy had a case of a 5yo gal who choked on the sweet given to her by the school bus aunty last yr. she arrived at the preschool, suddenly her eyes rolled back and face turned purple! the cc teacher didn’t know the Heimlich method of course, so just slapped the back of the girl real hard many times until the sweet got coughed out. such a close shave!

Reply to Students died during PE lessons! on Mon, 20 Jan 2014 05:37:20 GMT

Nebbermind — Mon, 20 Jan 2014 05:37:20 GMT

JJ1111:

I personally feel, even a teacher who is first-aid trained, he/she may not be able to react fast enough or apply the technique during emergency.

My hubby was 1st aid trained during his NS time. When my belated-mil had heart attack many years ago. He was panic, he forgotten what is the step he should do. He even forgotten the emergency no. 995. He called me crying, and I had to help him call ambulance. His mind is BLANK that time. :sad: Even we learned but never put into practice. When real case happened, I feel it is not easy to apply what we learned.

Can't blame him...I believe the training he had from NS is more related to combat injuries/stress...and I agree with you...dealing to real life cases is very different from textbook training. It's like going for a major exams without ANY revision...you thought you know, but when you try to write down the answers, it just doesn't flow out.

Reply to Students died during PE lessons! on Mon, 20 Jan 2014 05:08:26 GMT

ammonite — Mon, 20 Jan 2014 05:08:26 GMT

On a separate note I was impressed that one of my relative’s heart condition was detected during a routine primary school check up. He was referred on for a more detailed heart scan by a specialist and monitored through the years with exemption from PE. So the considerations are there. It may be that the people executing the actions (principals, teachers, nurses) are not always up to par.

Reply to Students died during PE lessons! on Mon, 20 Jan 2014 05:02:54 GMT

ammonite — Mon, 20 Jan 2014 05:02:54 GMT

There are longer first aid courses. The Red Cross runs one that goes for a few weeks (can’t remember exactly how long). Given the number of students in each school, it only make sense for the teachers to be trained. This is not putting responsibility on be teachers for saving lives - moe has lots of disclaimers - but equipping them better. i will argue that this is all the more so given the compulsory education act. Our children are, by law, in school for around 6 hours five days a week. It is only reasonable to expect a certain level of safety training in a portion of the teachers.

I will give moe some credit for becoming increasingly progressive in the area of health concerns and having new policies in place for emergency situations. But school leadership also play a part. There are principals who are willing to do more in this area, and principals who do as little as possible with the mindset that it is not their primary responsibility. This is my personal experience with kindergarten and primary schools. I am always grateful for the principals who step up for my kid.

There are also teachers who ignore kids when they said they need more water or rest, telling them they need to be tougher. Ds1 came back once unsteadily and obviously overheated after rugby. I was disappointed to learn that the teacher in charge refused to give them extra water breaks even though it was an unusually hot week.

Reply to Students died during PE lessons! on Mon, 20 Jan 2014 03:39:45 GMT

Nebbermind — Mon, 20 Jan 2014 03:39:45 GMT

Funz:

Not putting the responsibility on the teachers but at the very least, the teachers should be equipped with the basic know how. What to do when someone has fits, what are the initial steps for deep cuts, in cases of multiple wounds, which to treat first, etc. For that matter, I think secondary students should all be given a course in 1st aid. But that is my personal views.

Unfortunately, when one is tasked to do something, there will be other implications, especially when it concerns life and death.

I think rendering 1st aid to injuries is still fair coz most of the time it's not going to be life/death situation. But in situation where one needs to diagnose before administering the right rescue action (sorry, can't think of the right word), then it can be very tricky coz it's not like a 3-day course will be enough.

Reply to Students died during PE lessons! on Mon, 20 Jan 2014 03:07:35 GMT

Funz — Mon, 20 Jan 2014 03:07:35 GMT

JJ1111:

My hubby was 1st aid trained during his NS time. When my belated-mil had heart attack many years ago. He was panic, he forgotten what is the step he should do. He even forgotten the emergency no. 995. He called me crying, and I had to help him call ambulance. His mind is BLANK that time. :sad: Even we learned but never put into practice. When real case happened, I feel it is not easy to apply what we learned.

True.

Someone who is trained may not have the presence of mind to apply what is learned with faced with the situation. That was what happened to some of my staff when they saw a kid going into fits. Some started crying and panicking. But because all my staff are trained, others who are more level headed are able to step in to do the necessary and when those who initially panicked saw others attending to the kid, they snapped out of their own panic and started remembering what needs to be done.

That is why I think it is all the more important that more are trained.

Reply to Students died during PE lessons! on Mon, 20 Jan 2014 03:00:41 GMT

Funz — Mon, 20 Jan 2014 03:00:41 GMT

Nebbermind:
sembgal:
[quote=\"Nebbermind\"]I think in cases that are triggered by pre-existing ailments, I highly doubt 1st aid is of much help.

First aid is crucial to save the child's life before ambulance arrive. If say a child had fits in the primary school classroom, will a teacher know how to handle it or panic? I think it is mandatory for preschools teachers to be first aid trained so that in case of a child with fits, they will know what to do. A child having fits in class is serious matter and may affect the psychological emotions of other pupils. Seriously, I begin to wonder why MOE teachers are not required to be first-aid trained before they can teach?

I guess it's coz you just can't put the responsibility of saving a life on someone whose primary responsibility is to teach.[/quote]Not putting the responsibility on the teachers but at the very least, the teachers should be equipped with the basic know how. What to do when someone has fits, what are the initial steps for deep cuts, in cases of multiple wounds, which to treat first, etc. For that matter, I think secondary students should all be given a course in 1st aid. But that is my personal views.

Reply to Students died during PE lessons! on Mon, 20 Jan 2014 02:57:45 GMT

JJ1111 — Mon, 20 Jan 2014 02:57:45 GMT

sembgal:
Nebbermind:
I think in cases that are triggered by pre-existing ailments, I highly doubt 1st aid is of much help.

First aid is crucial to save the child's life before ambulance arrive. If say a child had fits in the primary school classroom, will a teacher know how to handle it or panic? I think it is mandatory for preschools teachers to be first aid trained so that in case of a child with fits, they will know what to do. A child having fits in class is serious matter and may affect the psychological emotions of other pupils. Seriously, I begin to wonder why MOE teachers are not required to be first-aid trained before they can teach?

I personally feel, even a teacher who is first-aid trained, he/she may not be able to react fast enough or apply the technique during emergency.

My hubby was 1st aid trained during his NS time. When my belated-mil had heart attack many years ago. He was panic, he forgotten what is the step he should do. He even forgotten the emergency no. 995. He called me crying, and I had to help him call ambulance. His mind is BLANK that time. :sad: Even we learned but never put into practice. When real case happened, I feel it is not easy to apply what we learned.

Reply to Students died during PE lessons! on Mon, 20 Jan 2014 02:44:20 GMT

Funz — Mon, 20 Jan 2014 02:44:20 GMT

ngl2010:
sembgal:
[quote=\"Funz\"]I think both cases are really sad and unfortunate. Onus is not only on the teachers but also on the students. The teachers will not be able to eyeball each and every student so the students themselves need to speak up if they feel unwell.

But I do question why not all teachers are 1st aid trained. In most preschools/childcares, all the teachers are 1st aid trained. Primary schools and secondary schools have a much larger population, with activities that are a definitely more physically demanding than in a childcare, shouldn't it be even more important that the teachers are 1st aid trained.

I agree with your point that since preschool teachers need to be first-aid trained, government should made it mandatory for MOE teachers to be all first-aid trained too.

Agree. Maybe they should also attend refresher training every a few years.[/quote]3 yrly refreshers. That is what childcare personnel have to go through to be 1st aid trained.

Reply to Students died during PE lessons! on Mon, 20 Jan 2014 02:44:20 GMT

Nebbermind — Mon, 20 Jan 2014 02:44:20 GMT

sembgal:
Nebbermind:
I think in cases that are triggered by pre-existing ailments, I highly doubt 1st aid is of much help.

First aid is crucial to save the child's life before ambulance arrive. If say a child had fits in the primary school classroom, will a teacher know how to handle it or panic? I think it is mandatory for preschools teachers to be first aid trained so that in case of a child with fits, they will know what to do. A child having fits in class is serious matter and may affect the psychological emotions of other pupils. Seriously, I begin to wonder why MOE teachers are not required to be first-aid trained before they can teach?

I guess it's coz you just can't put the responsibility of saving a life on someone whose primary responsibility is to teach.

Reply to Students died during PE lessons! on Mon, 20 Jan 2014 02:39:39 GMT

sembgal — Mon, 20 Jan 2014 02:39:39 GMT

Nebbermind:
I think in cases that are triggered by pre-existing ailments, I highly doubt 1st aid is of much help.

First aid is crucial to save the child's life before ambulance arrive. If say a child had fits in the primary school classroom, will a teacher know how to handle it or panic? I think it is mandatory for preschools teachers to be first aid trained so that in case of a child with fits, they will know what to do. A child having fits in class is serious matter and may affect the psychological emotions of other pupils. Seriously, I begin to wonder why MOE teachers are not required to be first-aid trained before they can teach?

Reply to Students died during PE lessons! on Mon, 20 Jan 2014 02:34:18 GMT

Nebbermind — Mon, 20 Jan 2014 02:34:18 GMT

I think in cases that are triggered by pre-existing ailments, I highly doubt 1st aid is of much help.

Reply to Students died during PE lessons! on Mon, 20 Jan 2014 02:28:25 GMT

ngl2010 — Mon, 20 Jan 2014 02:28:25 GMT

Funz:
When I was in school, when we arrive before assembly, we will be in the field playing, be it tag, or jumping rope, etc. All physical activities. Now according to kiddos, they are not allowed to wander around school or play but must head to the assembly area and read.

I think it depends on school. DS's primary school allows it.

Reply to Students died during PE lessons! on Mon, 20 Jan 2014 02:25:03 GMT

ngl2010 — Mon, 20 Jan 2014 02:25:03 GMT

sembgal:
Funz:
I think both cases are really sad and unfortunate. Onus is not only on the teachers but also on the students. The teachers will not be able to eyeball each and every student so the students themselves need to speak up if they feel unwell.

But I do question why not all teachers are 1st aid trained. In most preschools/childcares, all the teachers are 1st aid trained. Primary schools and secondary schools have a much larger population, with activities that are a definitely more physically demanding than in a childcare, shouldn't it be even more important that the teachers are 1st aid trained.

I agree with your point that since preschool teachers need to be first-aid trained, government should made it mandatory for MOE teachers to be all first-aid trained too.

Agree. Maybe they should also attend refresher training every a few years.

Reply to Students died during PE lessons! on Mon, 20 Jan 2014 02:24:49 GMT

Funz — Mon, 20 Jan 2014 02:24:49 GMT

When I was in school, when we arrive before assembly, we will be in the field playing, be it tag, or jumping rope, etc. All physical activities. Now according to kiddos, they are not allowed to wander around school or play but must head to the assembly area and read.

Reply to Students died during PE lessons! on Mon, 20 Jan 2014 02:21:36 GMT

sembgal — Mon, 20 Jan 2014 02:21:36 GMT

Funz:
I think both cases are really sad and unfortunate. Onus is not only on the teachers but also on the students. The teachers will not be able to eyeball each and every student so the students themselves need to speak up if they feel unwell.

But I do question why not all teachers are 1st aid trained. In most preschools/childcares, all the teachers are 1st aid trained. Primary schools and secondary schools have a much larger population, with activities that are a definitely more physically demanding than in a childcare, shouldn't it be even more important that the teachers are 1st aid trained.

I agree with your point that since preschool teachers need to be first-aid trained, government should made it mandatory for MOE teachers to be all first-aid trained too.

Reply to Students died during PE lessons! on Mon, 20 Jan 2014 02:20:01 GMT

Sun_2010 — Mon, 20 Jan 2014 02:20:01 GMT

sushi88:
I tend to agree with sailor. Children may not be eating right(lots of process food) and exercising enough these days compared to our time. Too much brain work as well.

So far, I do not hear teachers demanding a lot from the children. In fact sometimes I hear the children say they prefer more activities to be done during PE...and demand more from the PE teachers.

I tend to agree . In the good old days, PE or school CCA was just one source of our physical activity. Playing , walking , climbing, carrying was a part of every day life - school or no school.

But it is not just the lifestyle changes , but the environment changes. Air pollution in our days was a mere fraction of what it is now. Not just the industrial and traffic pollution we are unaware of how much air pollutants we are using in our home - air fresheners, insect repellent/Pesticide sprays, cleaners from from Cif to harpic to bleach we use them in plenty. IMO, a reason for asthama, allergies triggers .

Reply to Students died during PE lessons! on Mon, 20 Jan 2014 01:54:39 GMT

sushi88 — Mon, 20 Jan 2014 01:54:39 GMT

I tend to agree with sailor. Children may not be eating right(lots of process food) and exercising enough these days compared to our time. Too much brain work as well.

So far, I do not hear teachers demanding a lot from the children. In fact sometimes I hear the children say they prefer more activities to be done during PE…and demand more from the PE teachers.

Lastly, the school does a health check yearly but rather superficially on external examination, weight, height, eyes etc… Would it be good if a child goes for a full body checkup every 3-4-5 years on their internal and cancer indicators check, subsidized by the government?

Reply to Students died during PE lessons! on Mon, 20 Jan 2014 01:54:00 GMT

Funz — Mon, 20 Jan 2014 01:54:00 GMT

I think both cases are really sad and unfortunate. Onus is not only on the teachers but also on the students. The teachers will not be able to eyeball each and every student so the students themselves need to speak up if they feel unwell.

But I do question why not all teachers are 1st aid trained. In most preschools/childcares, all the teachers are 1st aid trained. Primary schools and secondary schools have a much larger population, with activities that are a definitely more physically demanding than in a childcare, shouldn’t it be even more important that the teachers are 1st aid trained.

Reply to Students died during PE lessons! on Mon, 20 Jan 2014 01:45:34 GMT

sailor — Mon, 20 Jan 2014 01:45:34 GMT

I think its more of our kids…are not as tough as us these days

Reply to Students died during PE lessons! on Mon, 20 Jan 2014 01:35:55 GMT

sembgal — Mon, 20 Jan 2014 01:35:55 GMT

http://www.channelnewsasia.com/mobile/latestnews/moe-reminds-schools-to-be/960182.html

Oh no!Are PE teachers too demanding or not qualified enough?