Man charged for falsifying address for P1 Registration

Reply to Man charged for falsifying address for P1 Registration on Mon, 09 Jun 2014 05:40:26 GMT

12mum — Mon, 09 Jun 2014 05:40:26 GMT

Traffic will always be a problem cos not everyone who lives within 1km walks to school.

Even if traffic is light, all you just need is one 'friendly' parent who drives daily to cause a mini jam.

Reply to Man charged for falsifying address for P1 Registration on Mon, 09 Jun 2014 05:33:27 GMT

rgps888 — Mon, 09 Jun 2014 05:33:27 GMT

[quote]Yes, is easy to be \"sniffed out\".[/quote]
However it is very obvious the school or MOE is not really enforcing this.
That is why I said this is an \"honor system\".

only when some one made some serious effort (\"move heaven and earth\"), or every now and then MOE said \"ok this year I need some warning example, find me one case\", then you have one case pop up.

It is beyond obvious this rental address is being abused. If every one stays within 1km (as the balloting will have suggested), why do you even need so many school buses ?

And let's not kid ourselves: how many Singaporeans actually live in rental place as a permanent home ???! This is not like some other countries where it is real a whole family cannot afford a house and have to rent, or whole family live in a different state from their home state so it has to rent. In SG, almost everyone is an owner. Why on earth you need to rent ? Those doing arbitrage (i.e. rent out my own and rent a cheaper one for myself) is a very very small minority. Those with kids and without own home is even smaller minority.

So as a matter of fact, rental address should be totally removed ! Or at least \"degraded\" as someone proposed earlier, move down to lower phases.

I suspect long time ago rental address being allowed is due to PRs. It is quite valid that PR do not own a pty here, and PR could be renting all the while. Since now PR is already \"demoted\", I dun see the need to allow this rental address any more.

And if, really some Singaporeans choose to sell their own home and rent instead (e.g. thinking of sell take profit now, later pty market crash then can buy back) , I would say, you are extremely stupid using your own roof to gamble, especially when you have school going kids! You dun deserve preferential treatments.

MOE is just acting blur. School is powerless.

Reply to Man charged for falsifying address for P1 Registration on Mon, 09 Jun 2014 00:13:22 GMT

janet88 — Mon, 09 Jun 2014 00:13:22 GMT

it’s so stupid to cheat…a primary one student will easily spill the beans…in a split second, anyone will blurt out the truth, even adults.

Reply to Man charged for falsifying address for P1 Registration on Sun, 08 Jun 2014 14:27:02 GMT

phtthp — Sun, 08 Jun 2014 14:27:02 GMT

Yes, is easy to be \"sniffed out\".

Nowadays, many P1 parents join whatsapp group.
During Ice breaking session, after join whatsapp chit chat -
first thing normally parents do is get to know who is whose parent ?
Associate this child in our class is whose parent ?

After that, come the next casual question, like where you stay, or which school bus does your child take to school, etc ?
Or do you wait at the gate, fetch child home yourself ?
Then if your child happen to take same Sch bus as another child in the same class, bonding of friendship begin ... More chit chat ...

In a P1 class of 30 kids :-
Certain number of kids stay < 1 km, from popular schools.
Not whole class.
So, if Form Tr want to spot check, they can, since the number of kids not big.

Or Form Tr (detectives on those staying < 1 km, from popular schools) can ask the kids to talk about \"myself\", during Show & Tell, like -
Who are your family members ?
where you stay ?
Roughly how long do you take to reach school, by school bus ?
(Like : is it a short trip from home ?)

Parents won't know when Form Tr can ask kids to do \"un-prepared\" Show & Tell, that reveal secrets.
P1 kids are innocent, so they tend to speak the truth innocently, unknowingly.
What if one child innocently reply Tr in class, during Show & Tell that:-
\"My father told me I should not reveal where I stay ...\"

Reply to Man charged for falsifying address for P1 Registration on Sun, 08 Jun 2014 14:22:39 GMT

bb_ mom — Sun, 08 Jun 2014 14:22:39 GMT

What if found out when kid is in P6? Can you imagine the stress?

Reply to Man charged for falsifying address for P1 Registration on Sun, 08 Jun 2014 14:20:59 GMT

janet88 — Sun, 08 Jun 2014 14:20:59 GMT

once the truth comes out, the child will be the first to suffer and ultimately will have to transfer to another school. don’t the parents who cheat think of the child and the self-esteem he/she suffers?

6 years is a LONG time to hide…and it is so easy to be discovered just based on everyday conversation. during a icebreaking session at the beginning of school (primary), my son’s FT will ask the class where they stay and how they go to school.

Reply to Man charged for falsifying address for P1 Registration on Sun, 08 Jun 2014 10:48:44 GMT

limlim — Sun, 08 Jun 2014 10:48:44 GMT

rgps888:
... this address thing is an honor system, very very hard to \"enforce\" ...

I personally know of one case: he owns and lives in this place within 1km of NYPS for at least 2yrs before P1 registration. After registering his child into the school, the whole family moved out to orchard, EVEN befor the school starts ! His child never lives a day of school in the address used for registration. Do you call this cheating ?

of coz it is cheating.

The address is residential address of the student. If the student is using an address where they are not genuinely staying there, it doesn't matter who owns the property, it is cheating.

Reply to Man charged for falsifying address for P1 Registration on Sun, 08 Jun 2014 10:45:17 GMT

limlim — Sun, 08 Jun 2014 10:45:17 GMT

janet_lee88:
limlim:
I'm referring to the case where the rented property is used for p1 reg.

it's obvious that a rented property near a hot school is for the purpose of p1 reg.

but if they don't stay there, then it is cheating.

So, what I'm trying to say is, those families who own a property and yet rent and use it for p1 reg, should be on the radar of the authorities, and investigated for possible cheating cases. Not say they are guilty, just highlighted and maybe kept on a lookout list. If they are innocent, there is nothing to fear.

Reply to Man charged for falsifying address for P1 Registration on Sun, 08 Jun 2014 09:34:03 GMT

phtthp — Sun, 08 Jun 2014 09:34:03 GMT

TheAnswer:

I won't be able to sleep if I had resorted to such ways to get into the ideal school..

Those who cheat won't be able to sleep, in peace.
At the back of their mind, they worried about getting caught one day.
How to have peace ?

There are 6 long years ahead, from P1 to P6.
Anytime they can be discovered, if there happen to be some alert or kay poh \"watch dog\" around, can be from their child's classmates, or from school bus mates, or from classmates' parents, who may report to their Form Tr, if they suspect anything fishy, start to investigate, quietly.

They know what consequences lie ahead of them.
their child will be transferred out. (Expel)

Reply to Man charged for falsifying address for P1 Registration on Sun, 08 Jun 2014 09:13:32 GMT

phtthp — Sun, 08 Jun 2014 09:13:32 GMT

rains:
I recall a case in which the owner of the flat and the tenant registering for a popular school.

The verdict was such that the tenant got the vacancy while the owner had to withdraw his registration.
I think the reason was bcos the owner wasn't living in the flat and so he could not use it as his address.
Honestly, I think that's fair.

The owner of the flat is foolish.

Knowing that purpose of tenant renting house from him is to register tenant's child into a popular school, he still want to use back his same address, to register his own child, to do same thing ?

Is so easy to get caught.

All MOE need to do is after end of Phase 2C :-
Run an Exception list report, highlight cheating cases.
Identify :
For all P1 kids registered in all the Primary schools this year, for this cohort batch -
Is there any children with different parents, but using the same P1 registered address ?
Throw out all the names of children, their schools they registered at, into this Exception listing.
If any name exists, investigate.

Reply to Man charged for falsifying address for P1 Registration on Sun, 08 Jun 2014 09:03:31 GMT

rains — Sun, 08 Jun 2014 09:03:31 GMT

I recall a case in which the owner of the flat and the tenant registering for a popular school. The verdict was such that the tenant got the vacancy while the owner had to withdraw his registration. I think the reason was bcos the owner wasn’t living in the flat and so he could not use it as his address. Honestly, I think that’s fair.

Reply to Man charged for falsifying address for P1 Registration on Sun, 08 Jun 2014 07:29:35 GMT

phtthp — Sun, 08 Jun 2014 07:29:35 GMT

janet_lee88:
rgps888:
A very simple way to discourage such abuse is to give priority to actual owners over renters. All can be in the same phase, but those owners fill in first. Rentals next.

It's just silly to get your kids wake up at 5 am every day. And not to mention the unnecessary traffic it introduced on the road.
But how to ensure these people are actual owners and not people who are renting? Bcos when they register, their IC will show address which doesn't prove anything.

Can be done.

All it need is Moe -
to twig the existing, current P1 registration process, slightly.
Moe to announce this new twig.

For Phase 2C -
Out of 3 days allocated -
Dedicate the initial first 2 days of P1 registration, to enrol only kids whose parents are genuine home purchased property owners.

Registration staff to check & verify all documents submitted -
to prove that they are indeed, genuine home purchased owners.
Now, the checking process goes beyond, just merely looking at IC only.
Verifying process more detailed, more thorough now.

On the last day (day 3), then enrol those parents who are renting houses.

Since school reg staff need to verify address documents more stringently now, if 3 days allocated to register Phase 2C is not enough, then extend one more day. Make it 4 days, for Phase 2C registration.

So, all primary schools will have 2 lists, for phase 2C.
One list - for genuine, home owners.
2nd list - for rental case.

In the event of balloting within 1 km, from hot, popular schools -
Moe to twig the existing P1 registration process -
Such that To give higher priority to first list of parents (ie. genuine home owners).

Now, How to give higher priority ?
Those genuine home owners - need not ballot.
Schools to Admit all their children in, first.
Subsequently -
Any other remaining, balance seats that are still left -
let those rental cases ballot, amongst themselves.

If a school does not involve balloting at all -
Ie. all students are admitted in, then based on 2nd list (rental list) -
Schools can make use of this 2nd list, to conduct spot check, on every regular 2 Terms basis -
Spot check Which rental case parent had quietly shifted out of their house < 1 km from popular school after P1 regn date over, after P1 heat fever commotion had died down, into some else where > 1 km ?

Either implement this way, or as one parent had earlier suggested a good, brillant idea -
Lump all rental cases together with using grandparents' addresses, all under 1 to 2 km distance.
This alternative suggestion, is a easier, better quicker solution, to implement.

Reply to Man charged for falsifying address for P1 Registration on Sun, 08 Jun 2014 07:11:55 GMT

janet88 — Sun, 08 Jun 2014 07:11:55 GMT

rgps888:
A very simple way to discourage such abuse is to give priority to actual owners over renters. All can be in the same phase, but those owners fill in first. Rentals next.

It's just silly to get your kids wake up at 5 am every day. And not to mention the unnecessary traffic it introduced on the road.

But how to ensure these people are actual owners and not people who are renting? Bcos when they register, their IC will show address which doesn't prove anything.

Reply to Man charged for falsifying address for P1 Registration on Sun, 08 Jun 2014 06:15:05 GMT

rgps888 — Sun, 08 Jun 2014 06:15:05 GMT

A very simple way to discourage such abuse is to give priority to actual owners over renters. All can be in the same phase, but those owners fill in first. Rentals next.

It’s just silly to get your kids wake up at 5 am every day. And not to mention the unnecessary traffic it introduced on the road.

Reply to Man charged for falsifying address for P1 Registration on Sun, 08 Jun 2014 04:45:11 GMT

janet88 — Sun, 08 Jun 2014 04:45:11 GMT

the point is renting another unit for the purpose of p1 registration while owning another property.

these people shift out once kids get into the school. I’ve heard several of these things happening when my kids were in kindy…they rent condo units near schools…they cannot afford to buy within 1km, so they rent.

Reply to Man charged for falsifying address for P1 Registration on Sun, 08 Jun 2014 04:38:49 GMT

rgps888 — Sun, 08 Jun 2014 04:38:49 GMT

… this address thing is an honor system, very very hard to "enforce" …

I personally know of one case: he owns and lives in this place within 1km of NYPS for at least 2yrs before P1 registration. After registering his child into the school, the whole family moved out to orchard, EVEN befor the school starts ! His child never lives a day of school in the address used for registration. Do you call this cheating ?

He still owns this place, and has rented out to successively 2 families who subsequently used the address to get into the school too. Each of them stayed about a year.

All of these are clearly using the system to their advantage.

Reply to Man charged for falsifying address for P1 Registration on Sun, 08 Jun 2014 03:45:29 GMT

ngl2010 — Sun, 08 Jun 2014 03:45:29 GMT

janet_lee88:
limlim:
Actually, they should check if those who use rented property own a property as well. If they own a property and yet rent, then something is obviously fishy.

If staying at rented unit while owning a property, no problem with that, IF not registering for p1 near hot school within 1 km. honestly, why would people rent a place to stay if they already own a property?

OT... DH's collegue rented out his condo at $5k and rent a condo at another part of Singapore for their own stay at $3k. He profits $2k each month. One year is $24k profit. Two years is $48k profit. Why not?

Reply to Man charged for falsifying address for P1 Registration on Sun, 08 Jun 2014 03:32:28 GMT

phtthp — Sun, 08 Jun 2014 03:32:28 GMT

janet_lee88:
phtthp:
What other possible reasons can we think of -

whereby people \"rent\" houses < 1 km from hot schools, but din stay there ?

(fishy, funny tricks)
honestly moe should do something about this...considered cheating and depriving those who really stay within 1km of the school.

Actually, people who rent houses < 1 km, then quietly shift out after 6 months later from P1 Regn date -
These are also cheaters.

Some claim rental too expensive, can't tahan anymore, so shift out.
But in the beginning, if they know they can't afford high rental rates, their funds running low, they should not even rent, in the first case.
On the on start (in the beginning), they already no intention of staying all the way, up to 6 years until their child is P6.
In their mind, they already plan to escape : when to get out of rental, soonest after sometime lapse ?
Is a matter of when ?

At a convenient time when they feel that no one is watching them, quietly keeping a low profile, then they start to shift back else where, > 1 km.
This is unfair, to genuine property owners, who purchased houses, < 1 km, from hot schools.

Reply to Man charged for falsifying address for P1 Registration on Sun, 08 Jun 2014 03:04:51 GMT

janet88 — Sun, 08 Jun 2014 03:04:51 GMT

phtthp:
What other possible reasons can we think of -

whereby people \"rent\" houses < 1 km from hot schools, but din stay there ?

(fishy, funny tricks)

honestly moe should do something about this...considered cheating and depriving those who really stay within 1km of the school.

Reply to Man charged for falsifying address for P1 Registration on Sun, 08 Jun 2014 02:31:59 GMT

phtthp — Sun, 08 Jun 2014 02:31:59 GMT

What other possible reasons can we think of -

whereby people "rent" houses < 1 km from hot schools, but din stay there ?

(fishy, funny tricks)

Reply to Man charged for falsifying address for P1 Registration on Sun, 08 Jun 2014 02:10:22 GMT

janet88 — Sun, 08 Jun 2014 02:10:22 GMT

limlim:
I'm referring to the case where the rented property is used for p1 reg.

it's obvious that a rented property near a hot school is for the purpose of p1 reg.

Reply to Man charged for falsifying address for P1 Registration on Sun, 08 Jun 2014 01:36:12 GMT

phtthp — Sun, 08 Jun 2014 01:36:12 GMT

limlim:
Actually, they should check if those who use rented property own a property as well. If they own a property and yet rent, then something is obviously fishy.

Possible

A) scenario 1

maybe the rented apartment within 1 km from hot, popular school is very small (eg : only 1 bedroom), but their family is big (say, with 2 kids plus maid + grandparents).
So, can't squeeze everyone, Into that one room condo, or studio apartment.

But during P1 Regn date -
They put down the address of this small 1 room condo, just to get into the hot school, because it is within 1 km.

But they don't stay here, although they own this small property < 1 km.
They stay somewhere else that is bigger, is another 2nd property.

There are people in sg where Husb buy one property, wife buy another.

As long as they don't stay in that apartment -
It also fall under falsifying address.

B) scenario 2

Around SCGS -
there are condo for rental, < 1 km from SCGS.
Some of these condo, fetch monthly income, of around $5, 000 per month, or higher.

Some people have relatives who own these condo, less than 1 km, from school.
These people may psycho their relatives (who own condo < 1 km from hot schools), to allow them use their address, to register for their P1 child.
Because they are relatives, sometimes their relatives allow them to rent, cheaper than outside market rates.
Things can be worked out, discussed, bec after all, they are relatives.
Not strangers

So, these people go to police post, changed their IC, to the condo address, less than 1 km. With this, they registered their child into the popular school, objective met.
But do they stay in this relative house ? No.
They stay somewhere else, > 1 km, from hot school.

But if they are caught accidentally, can they \"pak ka\" or team up with their relatives, claim they had been staying there, since P1 Regn date ?
Can.
(after all, they are relatives)

There are loop holes, using rental address.

Reply to Man charged for falsifying address for P1 Registration on Sat, 07 Jun 2014 21:21:25 GMT

limlim — Sat, 07 Jun 2014 21:21:25 GMT

I’m referring to the case where the rented property is used for p1 reg.