How Many A-Levels students take P/C/B & End up doing non-Eng

Reply to How Many A-Levels students take P/C/B & End up doing non-Eng on Sun, 14 Dec 2014 02:04:46 GMT

starlight1968sg — Sun, 14 Dec 2014 02:04:46 GMT

??

What is this post about? A comparison of IP and O level students again?

Reply to How Many A-Levels students take P/C/B & End up doing non-Eng on Sun, 14 Dec 2014 02:02:45 GMT

zbear — Sun, 14 Dec 2014 02:02:45 GMT

havok_ex:
The IP track is a blessing. No, its a GODSEND for us average students. The O levels are a bell curve, how much worse do you think the average students grades' would be if you add all those elite students from RI and HCI at the top? These top students are excluded from the O levels and I thank god that they are. If they were to take the O levels with the rest of us, they would surely distort the bell curve towards the right and it will be much much harder for us average students to score.

This is exactly why there is such a big gulf of difference between the O-levels and A-levels. In the O-levels, they were not competing with us. So it was much easier. However, their presence in the A-levels pushes the bellcurve further to the right, hence making it much harder for the average student to score.

I couldn't agree more. Told both my children the same thing - all the smart n not so smart kids meet at PSLE and again at A levels. It will be the same playing field again.

So will the smart kids excel again at A levels?

Reply to How Many A-Levels students take P/C/B & End up doing non-Eng on Sun, 14 Dec 2014 01:39:12 GMT

havok_ex — Sun, 14 Dec 2014 01:39:12 GMT

DadOfGirl:

Limitation of UAS based selection is the reason for Interviews for Law undergrad admissions. Suggest the same should be done for NUS-ARTs. Yale-NUS undergrad admission already has holistic admission process & SMU recognizes SAT scores( Not mandatory) . NTU has test & interviews for very specific arts courses.
I guess , it is not as bad to overcome problem of this thread. You have to sell yourself over P/C/B A- level students, if you cannot match up A -level grades

I'll say this as a final note. Most universities, including our own, are turning towards more holistic admissions. Rather than an admissions than is merely based on the subjects you took or even your UAS scores. If you look at the latest IGP by NUS:

http://www.nus.edu.sg/oam/gradeprofile/ ... e-igp.html

For poly students, the 10th percentile GPA for elite courses such as Law and Medicine is even lower than less popular courses such as mechanical engineering. This highlights the slight shift away from just pure results and academics and towards a more holistic admissions based on things outside of your academics.

Hence, the suggestion that universities should place more emphasis on subjects taken at A-levels is more regressive than progressive. Universities are moving past all that. Grades are still important, but it will be less important than it used to be.

Reply to How Many A-Levels students take P/C/B & End up doing non-Eng on Sat, 13 Dec 2014 21:45:45 GMT

DadOfGirl — Sat, 13 Dec 2014 21:45:45 GMT

micko07:
havok_ex:

No direct evidence. It is through my own experience of trying to get into arts courses in local universities. I've talked to a few professors before and they did give me some advice on this. I wouldnt call myself an admissions expert either. But I've appealed and appealed so many times to many different courses, I can say I do have 'experience'. Take for example, transferring between university courses. They do not only look at your A-level results and current GPA, but also the specific modules you have read and if those modules are related to your prospective course of choice.

It is certainly not strictly based on UAS alone. Certain subjects do matter more than others. For example, some applicants think that failing GP or PW is not a problem because you can just replace it with your H1 MT and count the UAS. This is not true, GP and PW happens to be an important enough subject that cant be replaced.
Transfers are a slightly different kettle of fish IMO - when you're looking at a transfer applicant, wouldn't the key considerations be (1) do they have the necessary aptitude for the new course and (2) whether they could move directly into the second year of a course, or have to start from scratch? The specific modules matter because if there's sufficient overlap, the student wouldn't have to start over (and it might also be an indicator of interest, although I imagine an aptitude test and interview might be more appropriate.)

I meant UAS in the sense that when deciding between two candidates who both meet all the requirements for entry to a subject, admissions is made blind of the actual subject combination or distribution of grades, which was DadofGirl's key grievance (eg if I'm trying to get into Law, it doesn't matter whether I'm a Science or Arts student in JC insofar as I meet the GP/ KI requirement and any other stipulations, like the number of subjects). Obviously, you must pass the threshold requirements first, and http://admissions.smu.edu.sg/apply/admi ... ce-a-level suggests that includes passing GP/ KI and PW (but surprisingly, NUS doesn't seem to suggest the same, only that one must \"offer\" it in the same sitting)

But I digress - I've never been through the appeal route, so I imagine your information is probably more sound, although I still suspect that UAS is the primary selection criteria if one is applying through the standard route, and subject combination is relatively irrelevant (insofar as basic requirements are met). As you rightly point out though, subject choice might help in aptitude tests (eg someone who is accustomed to writing essays would probably do better in written assessments for subjects like Law), but it isn't exclusive. It's only an advantage at best.

Limitation of UAS based selection is the reason for Interviews for Law undergrad admissions. Suggest the same should be done for NUS-ARTs. Yale-NUS undergrad admission already has holistic admission process & SMU recognizes SAT scores( Not mandatory) . NTU has test & interviews for very specific arts courses.
I guess , it is not as bad to overcome problem of this thread. You have to sell yourself over P/C/B A- level students, if you cannot match up A -level grades

Reply to How Many A-Levels students take P/C/B & End up doing non-Eng on Fri, 12 Dec 2014 12:38:05 GMT

micko07 — Fri, 12 Dec 2014 12:38:05 GMT

havok_ex:

No direct evidence. It is through my own experience of trying to get into arts courses in local universities. I've talked to a few professors before and they did give me some advice on this. I wouldnt call myself an admissions expert either. But I've appealed and appealed so many times to many different courses, I can say I do have 'experience'. Take for example, transferring between university courses. They do not only look at your A-level results and current GPA, but also the specific modules you have read and if those modules are related to your prospective course of choice.

It is certainly not strictly based on UAS alone. Certain subjects do matter more than others. For example, some applicants think that failing GP or PW is not a problem because you can just replace it with your H1 MT and count the UAS. This is not true, GP and PW happens to be an important enough subject that cant be replaced.

Transfers are a slightly different kettle of fish IMO - when you're looking at a transfer applicant, wouldn't the key considerations be (1) do they have the necessary aptitude for the new course and (2) whether they could move directly into the second year of a course, or have to start from scratch? The specific modules matter because if there's sufficient overlap, the student wouldn't have to start over (and it might also be an indicator of interest, although I imagine an aptitude test and interview might be more appropriate.)

I meant UAS in the sense that when deciding between two candidates who both meet all the requirements for entry to a subject, admissions is made blind of the actual subject combination or distribution of grades, which was DadofGirl's key grievance (eg if I'm trying to get into Law, it doesn't matter whether I'm a Science or Arts student in JC insofar as I meet the GP/ KI requirement and any other stipulations, like the number of subjects). Obviously, you must pass the threshold requirements first, and http://admissions.smu.edu.sg/apply/admi ... ce-a-level suggests that includes passing GP/ KI and PW (but surprisingly, NUS doesn't seem to suggest the same, only that one must \"offer\" it in the same sitting)

But I digress - I've never been through the appeal route, so I imagine your information is probably more sound, although I still suspect that UAS is the primary selection criteria if one is applying through the standard route, and subject combination is relatively irrelevant (insofar as basic requirements are met). As you rightly point out though, subject choice might help in aptitude tests (eg someone who is accustomed to writing essays would probably do better in written assessments for subjects like Law), but it isn't exclusive. It's only an advantage at best.

Reply to How Many A-Levels students take P/C/B & End up doing non-Eng on Fri, 12 Dec 2014 11:46:37 GMT

DadOfGirl — Fri, 12 Dec 2014 11:46:37 GMT

havok_ex:
DadOfGirl:
[quote=\"havok_ex\"]
No direct evidence. It is through my own experience of trying to get into arts courses in local universities. I've talked to a few professors before and they did give me some advice on this. I wouldnt call myself an admissions expert either. But I've appealed and appealed so many times to many different courses, I can say I do have 'experience'. Take for example, transferring between university courses. They do not only look at your A-level results and current GPA, but also the specific modules you have read and if those modules are related to your prospective course of choice.

It is certainly not strictly based on UAS alone. Certain subjects do matter more than others. For example, some applicants think that failing GP or PW is not a problem because you can just replace it with your H1 MT and count the UAS. This is not true, GP and PW happens to be an important enough subject that cant be replaced.
I would like to know which Arts courses at undergrad level considers subject offered at A-level ?
NTU?
SMU Humanities faculty?

From personal anecdotal experience : NTU humanities. Though its not about simply offering the specific subject, but also doing well at said subject. Its also a huge plus point when it comes to interviews and entrance test. For example, NTU english conducts mandatory interviews and a poetry analysis test at the interview for shortlisted applicants. For a person who has never touched english lit before, he would not have much to say during an interview that focuses on literature. Neither will he perform well at the poetry analysis if he has never taken lit at A-levels before.

But scoring an A in english lit an failing everything else and still expecting NTU to take you in is naive. Because then all students might as well just sit for one A level paper instead of 5.[/quote]Thank you havok_ex. This is the information, i was lookign for. There is also Wee Kin Wee school of communication in NTU , it is very reputed institute. We hope to get in any of Such undergrad courses , if my DD could not get AAA A. :idea:

Reply to How Many A-Levels students take P/C/B & End up doing non-Eng on Fri, 12 Dec 2014 11:18:11 GMT

havok_ex — Fri, 12 Dec 2014 11:18:11 GMT

DadOfGirl:
havok_ex:

No direct evidence. It is through my own experience of trying to get into arts courses in local universities. I've talked to a few professors before and they did give me some advice on this. I wouldnt call myself an admissions expert either. But I've appealed and appealed so many times to many different courses, I can say I do have 'experience'. Take for example, transferring between university courses. They do not only look at your A-level results and current GPA, but also the specific modules you have read and if those modules are related to your prospective course of choice.

It is certainly not strictly based on UAS alone. Certain subjects do matter more than others. For example, some applicants think that failing GP or PW is not a problem because you can just replace it with your H1 MT and count the UAS. This is not true, GP and PW happens to be an important enough subject that cant be replaced.
I would like to know which Arts courses at undergrad level considers subject offered at A-level ?
NTU?
SMU Humanities faculty?

Reply to How Many A-Levels students take P/C/B & End up doing non-Eng on Fri, 12 Dec 2014 07:05:03 GMT

DadOfGirl — Fri, 12 Dec 2014 07:05:03 GMT

havok_ex:
micko07:
[quote=\"havok_ex\"]
Furthermore, its not like Arts students dont have an advantage at all. The universities do not just look at your grades. They also look at your subjects. The admissions are biased in that way as well. If you got an A for English Lit and applied for English in NTU, you have a higher chance of getting in than someone who only has an A in say physics or math. So these Arts students are given priority in that sense already.
Do you have a source as to this information? I was always under the impression that admission is strictly based on UAS, and they don't consider the subjects offered (insofar as they are not pre-requisites, obviously); I don't think I've seen evidence to the contrary on any of the university websites, but I'm no expert in local university admissions either.

No direct evidence. It is through my own experience of trying to get into arts courses in local universities. I've talked to a few professors before and they did give me some advice on this. I wouldnt call myself an admissions expert either. But I've appealed and appealed so many times to many different courses, I can say I do have 'experience'. Take for example, transferring between university courses. They do not only look at your A-level results and current GPA, but also the specific modules you have read and if those modules are related to your prospective course of choice.

It is certainly not strictly based on UAS alone. Certain subjects do matter more than others. For example, some applicants think that failing GP or PW is not a problem because you can just replace it with your H1 MT and count the UAS. This is not true, GP and PW happens to be an important enough subject that cant be replaced.[/quote]I would like to know which Arts courses at undergrad level considers subject offered at A-level ?
NTU?
SMU Humanities faculty?

Reply to How Many A-Levels students take P/C/B & End up doing non-Eng on Fri, 12 Dec 2014 03:55:51 GMT

havok_ex — Fri, 12 Dec 2014 03:55:51 GMT

DadOfGirl:

This may sound like extreme , but IP track seems to be created in order to protect academically inclined student from competing with Cohort which would mature with time. And similar preference continues when they pass A -levels.

The IP track is a blessing. No, its a GODSEND for us average students. The O levels are a bell curve, how much worse do you think the average students grades' would be if you add all those elite students from RI and HCI at the top? These top students are excluded from the O levels and I thank god that they are. If they were to take the O levels with the rest of us, they would surely distort the bell curve towards the right and it will be much much harder for us average students to score.

This is exactly why there is such a big gulf of difference between the O-levels and A-levels. In the O-levels, they were not competing with us. So it was much easier. However, their presence in the A-levels pushes the bellcurve further to the right, hence making it much harder for the average student to score.

Reply to How Many A-Levels students take P/C/B & End up doing non-Eng on Wed, 10 Dec 2014 02:09:09 GMT

rains — Wed, 10 Dec 2014 02:09:09 GMT

DadOfGirl:

This may sound like extreme , but IP track seems to be created in order to protect academically inclined student from competing with Cohort which would mature with time. And similar preference continues when they pass A -levels.

That's an interesting viewpoint, bcos on the contrary, I'd thought that the IP track was created to protect the not-as-academically strong students.

Unlike PSLE T-scores, O level grades are based on bell curve. 75 marks do not guarantee you an A1.

In the past when school ranking was not a national secret, it was obvious where all the top scorers who got 10 or 11As hailed from. My impression was that students from schools that fell short of the Top Ten and Twenty didn't have as good a chance at getting A1s for 8 or 9 subjects even, but after some schools went IP and school ranking was still not a national secret yet, we saw schools that were hardly mentioned for stellar O level results reporting significant number of students who got 8 or 9 As at O level.

The above was my impression. I certainly do not have the exact statistics to support my claim.

Of course, you may see it from the perspective that IP students get the priority into top JCs, leaving fewer spots for the O level students. I can only say that everybody had an equal chance at 'chope-ing' an IP spot at psle and sometimes, life is just unfair like that if you happen to be brighter earlier, more informed, had more support or simply just by being lucky at certain point in life. That said, I don't think IP is an easier path and certainly doesn't suit every child. The content is definitely more difficult than O level track stuff and students falling short of the expectations have to exit the programme. I had my gripe about the programme when I first realised the depth of content 13-year-olds have to grasp. I felt it was unreasonable when I measured it against my own ability at 13 years old.

My impression is that the ip track was created as statistics showed that students who do well at psle usually also do well at O level so there is no need to put them through another exam which they would breeze through and thus 'wasting' the time that could otherwise be spent on teaching them A level content. Most students at 15 or 16 are certainly not ready to be stretched since A level content and skills are significantly more difficult than O level's, and that's why the programme is offered to a certain group of students who have proven their academic ability at a certain age. I thought it's somewhat similar to gifted versus mainstream: why are geppers given a lifetime of opportunities when they have only proven to be brilliant at 8 or 9 years old? But like what I have said above, sometimes life is just unfair like that.

I do believe this ip versus o level talk has digressed from your science versus arts talk though.

Reply to How Many A-Levels students take P/C/B & End up doing non-Eng on Wed, 10 Dec 2014 01:29:14 GMT

sharonkhoo — Wed, 10 Dec 2014 01:29:14 GMT

DadOfGirl:
I am supplimenting my argument about unfair competition from Early Birds/Academically inclined students. Point here is ,Educators has created IP track to advantage those who do well early in life , a life time opportunity to advancing thro' Uni.

If you plot PSLE score to O-level score ,it will be eye-opener. In fact there is little corelation.....Hence it is unfair to create Elite class of IP students based on PSLE score. They really dun have to compete for Uni places.

As some of the other respondents have pointed out, skipping O levels (IP track) doesn't confer an automatic entry into any university. My younger daughter will take A levels like students in other JCs and compete to enter university. She, and we, know that PSLE scores do not strongly correlate to results in later life, so she is working hard like most other students in Singapore. She knows that if she slacks or slips up, she will not get a university place based on her PSLE performance or acceptance into an IP school. The only thing that makes it more likely that she will get a university place compared to her sister (doing Arts A levels in MI) is that she (the younger) is a stronger student and will more likely do better at A levels. If we put her in MI, I expect her results would still be good, but she would have less fun in school. On the other hand, my older daughter would find IP school way too challenging and would be thoroughly miserable, and would probably get really terrible results. MI seems to be the right fit for her - she isn't the bottom of the heap there, gets a lot of support, and will probably get better results there than if she went the IP track. I'm not expecting very good results from her anyway as she has never been a strong student, but MI seems to be the best chance she has to get the best results she can manage.

Reply to How Many A-Levels students take P/C/B & End up doing non-Eng on Tue, 09 Dec 2014 14:49:51 GMT

havok_ex — Tue, 09 Dec 2014 14:49:51 GMT

DadOfGirl:

I am supplimenting my argument about unfair competition from Early Birds/Academically inclined students. Point here is ,Educators has created IP track to advantage those who do well early in life , a life time opportunity to advancing thro' Uni.

If you plot PSLE score to O-level score ,it will be eye-opener. In fact there is little corelation.....Hence it is unfair to create Elite class of IP students based on PSLE score. They really dun have to compete for Uni places.

PSLE scores never correlate to O-level, O-level also has no correlation to A-level and A-level scores certainly have no correlation to how well one performs in university.

However, to say that they 'dont have to compete for uni places' is way off the mark. Uni places are only determined by A-level scores. So what does skipping O-levels, ie the IP track, has got anything to do with university admissions?

And I agree with some of what the others have said above. Some science students can really excel in Arts. I know a couple of them. Heck, I know a guy who is majoring in Applied Physics in NTU and at the same time doing a second major in Philosophy. He is also getting first-class grades for both majors at the same time. Some students are naturally gifted in this sense, that they can excel in both science and the arts. You cant categorise them in such a way that restricts them for entering an arts course just because they were from science.

Then again, arts students should also be allowed to take science/engineering courses. But tell me, how many of them would want to? And even if they did, the universities would probably have to put them through some sort of foundation course first because all the science and engin courses expect you to have that foundational knowledge already.

Reply to How Many A-Levels students take P/C/B & End up doing non-Eng on Tue, 09 Dec 2014 14:43:23 GMT

Skyed — Tue, 09 Dec 2014 14:43:23 GMT

You can do well at PSLE/Os and screw up As. IP students have to compete just as much with JAE students for uni places.

Reply to How Many A-Levels students take P/C/B & End up doing non-Eng on Tue, 09 Dec 2014 09:14:46 GMT

DadOfGirl — Tue, 09 Dec 2014 09:14:46 GMT

slmkhoo:
DadOfGirl:
Then why do MOE impose mandatory one humanity subject in Computation of L1R5 at O -level ?

Given the choice , Triple science student would just skip humanities altogather at O levels.

This may sound like extreme , but IP track seems to be created in order to protect academically inclined student from competing with Cohort which would mature with time. And similar preference continues when they pass A -levels.
The mandatory humanities is to prevent imbalanced students. Arts students also have to take mandatory maths and a science.

I'm not sure what your point is about IP? My younger daughter is in an IP school, and the same mandatory subject requirements are imposed on students in Yrs 3 and 4, i.e. everyone does maths and at least 1 science and 1 arts.

I am supplimenting my argument about unfair competition from Early Birds/Academically inclined students. Point here is ,Educators has created IP track to advantage those who do well early in life , a life time opportunity to advancing thro' Uni.

If you plot PSLE score to O-level score ,it will be eye-opener. In fact there is little corelation.....Hence it is unfair to create Elite class of IP students based on PSLE score. They really dun have to compete for Uni places.

Reply to How Many A-Levels students take P/C/B & End up doing non-Eng on Tue, 09 Dec 2014 08:56:35 GMT

sharonkhoo — Tue, 09 Dec 2014 08:56:35 GMT

DadOfGirl:
Then why do MOE impose mandatory one humanity subject in Computation of L1R5 at O -level ?

Given the choice , Triple science student would just skip humanities altogather at O levels.

This may sound like extreme , but IP track seems to be created in order to protect academically inclined student from competing with Cohort which would mature with time. And similar preference continues when they pass A -levels.

The mandatory humanities is to prevent imbalanced students. Arts students also have to take mandatory maths and a science.

I'm not sure what your point is about IP? My younger daughter is in an IP school, and the same mandatory subject requirements are imposed on students in Yrs 3 and 4, i.e. everyone does maths and at least 1 science and 1 arts.

Reply to How Many A-Levels students take P/C/B & End up doing non-Eng on Tue, 09 Dec 2014 08:05:37 GMT

DadOfGirl — Tue, 09 Dec 2014 08:05:37 GMT

slmkhoo:
DadOfGirl:
I think this has changed already. My DD didn't allow me to see SEc3 subject choices put on school portal... Most student are way too independent to be dictated what to study at JC (Atleast) ...

So we are taking about future .....
That can be a problem if they won't discuss choices and listen to opinions from parents. So far, my kids have been willing to consult us when making such choices. On the other hand, we have to take their preferences into account too. We have to be very diplomatic!

I see it as progression & taking responsibility of their actions , so though we are curious , we shall leave it until becomes obvious.
We also have practice that if Mid year result is good... no need for us to see Prelim result sheet.

Reply to How Many A-Levels students take P/C/B & End up doing non-Eng on Tue, 09 Dec 2014 07:56:43 GMT

DadOfGirl — Tue, 09 Dec 2014 07:56:43 GMT

rains:
Hi DadOfGirl,

I see that you are very persistent in your opinion that science students should not be competing with the arts students when it comes to admission to Arts and Social Science programme.

I understand where you are coming from and I wish the same to happen, but would you agree that science students are generally academically stronger than arts students?

From my observation/experience, science students tend to be more of all-rounders compared to arts students. Science students are often equally, if not more, competent in arts subjects, just that they tend to choose science subjects for the quantitative factor in scoring. To them, it's easier to score in sciences bcos sciences have fixed answers as opposed to arts which may depend on the way you write or argue. However, it does not mean that they can't do arts. I have met quite a few humble science students who claimed they couldn't do arts, but what they really meant was they were not as sure if they could get straight As if they had done a subject like Lit (although I had no doubt they could).

As opposed to the science students, I find that arts students in general are not as strong academically. Most of them/us can't do science for the life of them/us. I do feel that it's justified that stronger students ought to have more options eg. science students choosing arts.

Then why do MOE impose mandatory one humanity subject in Computation of L1R5 at O -level ?
Given the choice , Triple science student would just skip humanities altogather at O levels.

This may sound like extreme , but IP track seems to be created in order to protect academically inclined student from competing with Cohort which would mature with time. And similar preference continues when they pass A -levels.

Reply to How Many A-Levels students take P/C/B & End up doing non-Eng on Tue, 09 Dec 2014 01:57:23 GMT

sharonkhoo — Tue, 09 Dec 2014 01:57:23 GMT

rains:
As opposed to the science students, I find that arts students in general are not as strong academically. Most of them/us can't do science for the life of them/us. I do feel that it's justified that stronger students ought to have more options eg. science students choosing arts.

Strong students do have the most choices, but it is mostly parents and schools that perpetuate the \"strong students take sciences, the rest take arts\" belief. When a strong student wants to take arts, the reaction of surprise or disapproval is enough to discourage all but the most strong-willed and self-confident. I would like to see the perception that strong students always take sciences as their first choice changed. In places like US and UK, there are many strong students who choose arts and are not regarded as strange or short-changing themselves. Many become leaders in business, finance, law and politics too, not just academia.

Reply to How Many A-Levels students take P/C/B & End up doing non-Eng on Tue, 09 Dec 2014 01:49:32 GMT

sharonkhoo — Tue, 09 Dec 2014 01:49:32 GMT

DadOfGirl:
I think this has changed already. My DD didn't allow me to see SEc3 subject choices put on school portal... Most student are way too independent to be dictated what to study at JC (Atleast) ...

So we are taking about future .....

That can be a problem if they won't discuss choices and listen to opinions from parents. So far, my kids have been willing to consult us when making such choices. On the other hand, we have to take their preferences into account too. We have to be very diplomatic!

Reply to How Many A-Levels students take P/C/B & End up doing non-Eng on Tue, 09 Dec 2014 01:19:04 GMT

rains — Tue, 09 Dec 2014 01:19:04 GMT

Hi DadOfGirl,

I see that you are very persistent in your opinion that science students should not be competing with the arts students when it comes to admission to Arts and Social Science programme.

I understand where you are coming from and I wish the same to happen, but would you agree that science students are generally academically stronger than arts students?

From my observation/experience, science students tend to be more of all-rounders compared to arts students. Science students are often equally, if not more, competent in arts subjects, just that they tend to choose science subjects for the quantitative factor in scoring. To them, it’s easier to score in sciences bcos sciences have fixed answers as opposed to arts which may depend on the way you write or argue. However, it does not mean that they can’t do arts. I have met quite a few humble science students who claimed they couldn’t do arts, but what they really meant was they were not as sure if they could get straight As if they had done a subject like Lit (although I had no doubt they could).

As opposed to the science students, I find that arts students in general are not as strong academically. Most of them/us can’t do science for the life of them/us. I do feel that it’s justified that stronger students ought to have more options eg. science students choosing arts.

Reply to How Many A-Levels students take P/C/B & End up doing non-Eng on Mon, 08 Dec 2014 09:42:45 GMT

DadOfGirl — Mon, 08 Dec 2014 09:42:45 GMT

havok_ex:

Furthermore, its not like Arts students dont have an advantage at all. The universities do not just look at your grades. They also look at your subjects. The admissions are biased in that way as well. If you got an A for English Lit and applied for English in NTU, you have a higher chance of getting in than someone who only has an A in say physics or math. So these Arts students are given priority in that sense already.

Unfortunately NUS ART is common for first year. They admit whole Cohort & only in second year , Major is decided based on Grades.
In such case , NUS must be lookign at Grades only rather than subject you offered at A levels

Reply to How Many A-Levels students take P/C/B & End up doing non-Eng on Mon, 08 Dec 2014 09:37:36 GMT

DadOfGirl — Mon, 08 Dec 2014 09:37:36 GMT

havok_ex:
And if your question is 'why do students who take science go to arts in uni?'. The answer is simple.

These children already have a passion or an interest in the arts. But the average Singaporean parent is not very smart. Hence, they can only see 'Doctor' or 'Engineer' as feasible jobs. So they push their children towards science streams. This breeds a strong competition for triple science courses and hence the mentality that science students are smarter. This creates an even greater push towards the science stream in sec/JC as parents want their children to be seen as 'smart'. Children at 14 and 16 years old dont really have much say in which stream they can go to. I also wanted to do arts in sec and JC but my mum didn't allow me to. Once these students reach the uni level, they are more or less free from their parents' control. Hence, being able to choose a course they want, they go for arts. You cant really blame these kids. They had an interest for those type of courses from the beginning. You can blame the entire generation of blind parents that perpetuated the 'science is smarter' nonsense.

I think this has changed already. My DD didn't allow me to see SEc3 subject choices put on school portal... Most student are way too independent to be dictated what to study at JC (Atleast) ...

So we are taking about future .....

Reply to How Many A-Levels students take P/C/B & End up doing non-Eng on Sun, 07 Dec 2014 14:01:33 GMT

havok_ex — Sun, 07 Dec 2014 14:01:33 GMT

micko07:
havok_ex:

Furthermore, its not like Arts students dont have an advantage at all. The universities do not just look at your grades. They also look at your subjects. The admissions are biased in that way as well. If you got an A for English Lit and applied for English in NTU, you have a higher chance of getting in than someone who only has an A in say physics or math. So these Arts students are given priority in that sense already.
Do you have a source as to this information? I was always under the impression that admission is strictly based on UAS, and they don't consider the subjects offered (insofar as they are not pre-requisites, obviously); I don't think I've seen evidence to the contrary on any of the university websites, but I'm no expert in local university admissions either.