how to acquire a proper English accent in Singapore

Reply to how to acquire a proper English accent in Singapore on Sat, 16 Jan 2016 09:17:59 GMT

lee_yl — Sat, 16 Jan 2016 09:17:59 GMT

Baby JB:

Hi lee_yl,

Agreed. So I am deciding whether to put my DD3 in ICR, ICL or Jan & Elly? Btw, he is 5 this year; K1. Any advise from you is greatly appreciated. Thanks

Hi Baby JB,

I chose ICR because for English Phonics, it is the most popular among parents. My DD1 attended ICR at 4yo but my DD2 started at 5yo as I find that 5-6yo is the best time to start.

I do not believe in hopping from one enrichment centre to another so my children stayed with ICR till they finished the ICR course. Thus, I cannot give feedback on ICL or Jan & Elly as I have no experience with them. You may wish to read up the relevant threads in KSP.

Reply to how to acquire a proper English accent in Singapore on Fri, 15 Jan 2016 07:03:09 GMT

Baby JB — Fri, 15 Jan 2016 07:03:09 GMT

lee_yl:
Baby JB:
[quote=\"lee_yl\"]The root of the problem is that we have adopted Singlish as our Mother Tongue.

To speak proper English, we need to learn English as a foreign language in the same way our kids learn Chinese today, if you notice some kids speak Chinese with a true-blue Beijing accent because they only get to practise speaking Chinese with their PRC teachers/tutors and are not \"contaminated\" by the local Chinese since they do not use it at home and outside the classroom.

The home and school environment shape how we learn and use spoken languages.

We should thus not use poorly spoken English at home if the parents are not comfortable speaking in English. Should just be natural and use the actual mother tongue at home so as to allow the child to learn proper English in school.

As the school environment is equally important, judicious care has to be exercised in selecting the school. Going to ACS, MGS, SCGS etc. where the school has a strong English speaking environment, will help as the kid will be exposed to good articulation and proper grammar. Attending English enrichment with native speakers of English as the teachers may also help.
Hi lee_yl,

My hubby second your opinions.... Hence, when I discuss with him which English enrichment programme to enrol my child in? He immediately choose the one with natives teachers. When I wanted to consider enrichment centres with local teachers, he cautions me to think twice.....

Hi Baby JB,

Before my children entered formal primary school education, they attended Lorna Whiston Speech & Drama classes as well as I Can Read (taught by native speakers of English). After formal education started, i switched them to TLL (all local teachers) as at the end of the day, the kids will ultimately be taking PSLE in the local format. I am willing to spend on English enrichment as I believe having a good foundation in English is still very important in Singapore. [/quote]Hi lee_yl,

Agreed. So I am deciding whether to put my DD3 in ICR, ICL or Jan & Elly? Btw, he is 5 this year; K1. Any advise from you is greatly appreciated. Thanks

Reply to how to acquire a proper English accent in Singapore on Wed, 13 Jan 2016 08:47:48 GMT

D3-n — Wed, 13 Jan 2016 08:47:48 GMT

[quote]

Joy of Learning 111:
D3@n:
If not, I wouldn't have embraced the English language and English literature with such fervour and passion these past decades.
To secure victory over an enemy, you must get to know his ways first. :rotflmao:

As in keep your friends close, your enemies even closer? :rotflmao: :boogie:

D3@n:
I was even slighted by my Secondary school Chinese teacher and labelled as a \"banana\".

Joy of Learning 111:
Bananas are a very healthy fruit. Very unprofessional of your Chinese teacher. If I hear a colleague using derogatory terms, or terms that could be construed as derogatory by the prospective victim, I will call them out on it, because you never know what the effect might be on young minds.

It was an extremely traditional Chinese environment. Western influence was frowned upon and deemed a bad influence that \"corrupts\" our young impressionable minds and \"erodes\" our morals and values.
I am all for virtues and values, but \"me thinks the lady doth protest too much\".
My best mate in class who was almost hopeless in his Chinese was much traumatised during his 4 years there, as you can imagine. [/quote]

Reply to how to acquire a proper English accent in Singapore on Wed, 13 Jan 2016 06:07:05 GMT

Joy of Learning 111 — Wed, 13 Jan 2016 06:07:05 GMT

D3@n:
The literal translation of \"angmoh\" is \"red hair\", and it's our forefathers' Hokkien lingo for Caucasians.

Scottish and Irish Westerners then.

D3@n:
It is a neutral term for a noun.

No harm in simply calling someone a 'Westerner'.

D3@n:
If not, I wouldn't have embraced the English language and English literature with such fervour and passion these past decades.

To secure victory over an enemy, you must get to know his ways first. :rotflmao:

D3@n:
I was even slighted by my Secondary school Chinese teacher and labelled as a \"banana\".

Bananas are a very healthy fruit. Very unprofessional of your Chinese teacher. If I hear a colleague using derogatory terms, or terms that could be construed as derogatory by the prospective victim, I will call them out on it, because you never know what the effect might be on young minds.

Cheers!

Reply to how to acquire a proper English accent in Singapore on Wed, 13 Jan 2016 05:48:24 GMT

D3-n — Wed, 13 Jan 2016 05:48:24 GMT

Joy of Learning 111:

I presume by the term ‘angmoh’ you mean ‘white person’? Nowaday, there are fewer white people in England and across the western world too.

I would prefer people not to use terms, including ‘angmoh’, which make references to someone’s alleged race or skin colour, as such terms often connote an unhelpful or derogatory tone at least by or in the eyes of some. I appreciate that is not the case with you.

The literal translation of \"angmoh\" is \"red hair\", and it's our forefathers' Hokkien lingo for Caucasians. It is a neutral term for a noun, unlike the N-word in America or the P-word in Britain. So rest assured there is no derogatory implication, unless one chooses to add whatever negative adjectives before that.

So you are absolutely right, there is definitely no racism intended. If not, I wouldn't have embraced the English language and English literature with such fervour and passion these past decades. I was even slighted by my Secondary school Chinese teacher and labelled as a \"banana\". Now that, I would say is prejudiced as I was equally proficient with my Mother Tongue Chinese.

Reply to how to acquire a proper English accent in Singapore on Wed, 13 Jan 2016 05:11:44 GMT

Joy of Learning 111 — Wed, 13 Jan 2016 05:11:44 GMT

D3@n:
While it is the parents' personal preference

...
my proper English.

Historically, many of the ruling elite have spoken with what could be considered RP. Although small in numbers, such people have had a disproportionate influence on society; consequently, it has acquired this superior flavour.

Arguably, RP is a standard or baseline against which to evaluate other accents. There was never a claim that the majority of people in England speak or want to speak with such an accent; they do, however, want to speak with clear enunciation, and possibly look to RP as a model. Whether RP should be the standard is of course a very relevant question.

Most people want to be taught by someone with clear enunciation, almost regardless of accent. However, some accents are clearer than others. It is up to parents in Singapore to decide which accents are clearer to them. I reiterate my point, which in fact you mirror, that parents should be discerning when choosing not only the enrichment centre but also the individual teachers if it is emulation of speech patterns they are after.

But more important than accent is whether someone is actually pronouncing correctly. When parents seek a native-speaker, this is what they usually have in mind. A simple baseline test parents can apply when evaluating prospective teachers, whether such teachers are local or native-speakers (not a dichotomy I like), is how do such teachers pronounce the following words:

photography, calligraphy, flour, a, content, tree, three, pronunciation

I presume by the term ‘angmoh’ you mean ‘white person’? Nowaday, there are fewer white people in England and across the western world too.

I would prefer people not to use terms, including ‘angmoh’, which make references to someone’s alleged race or skin colour, as such terms often connote an unhelpful or derogatory tone at least by or in the eyes of some. I appreciate that is not the case with you.

Reply to how to acquire a proper English accent in Singapore on Wed, 13 Jan 2016 03:52:29 GMT

D3-n — Wed, 13 Jan 2016 03:52:29 GMT

While it is the parents’ personal preference in their choice of native vs local English teachers/speakers, please be mindful that a Caucasian accent does not guarantee a proficient command of the language.

I have encountered many native speakers with a weak grasp of the grammar and atrocious spelling.

In addition, it is estimated in 1974 that only 3% of the people in England are RP speakers. Now I think the percentage should be even lower.
RP being Received Pronunciation - the accent of Standard English in the United Kingdom.
It baffles me that non-native speakers are striving for this perceived superior and prestigious perfection when almost all of England don’t speak this way. And it is perfectly fine that most of England don’t speak this way and adopt their own regional and local accents.

So chances are you won’t be getting your "true-blue" English accent even if you go with a native speaker. You will simply be taught his/her accent. Nothing wrong with that either, as long as you receive the solid foundation of the language, both written and spoken.

For the record I am not an angmoh, but English has been my first language since I started school in Singapore and I am terribly proud of my Singapore accent when I speak my proper English.

Reply to how to acquire a proper English accent in Singapore on Tue, 12 Jan 2016 13:35:12 GMT

lee_yl — Tue, 12 Jan 2016 13:35:12 GMT

Baby JB:
lee_yl:
The root of the problem is that we have adopted Singlish as our Mother Tongue.

To speak proper English, we need to learn English as a foreign language in the same way our kids learn Chinese today, if you notice some kids speak Chinese with a true-blue Beijing accent because they only get to practise speaking Chinese with their PRC teachers/tutors and are not \"contaminated\" by the local Chinese since they do not use it at home and outside the classroom.

The home and school environment shape how we learn and use spoken languages.

We should thus not use poorly spoken English at home if the parents are not comfortable speaking in English. Should just be natural and use the actual mother tongue at home so as to allow the child to learn proper English in school.

As the school environment is equally important, judicious care has to be exercised in selecting the school. Going to ACS, MGS, SCGS etc. where the school has a strong English speaking environment, will help as the kid will be exposed to good articulation and proper grammar. Attending English enrichment with native speakers of English as the teachers may also help.
Hi lee_yl,

My hubby second your opinions.... Hence, when I discuss with him which English enrichment programme to enrol my child in? He immediately choose the one with natives teachers. When I wanted to consider enrichment centres with local teachers, he cautions me to think twice.....

Reply to how to acquire a proper English accent in Singapore on Tue, 12 Jan 2016 08:13:21 GMT

Joy of Learning 111 — Tue, 12 Jan 2016 08:13:21 GMT

I would second (or is that ‘third’?) you, Baby JB. However, one has to be selective in choosing an enrichment centre, and further selective as to which teachers therein, as not all native speakers necessarily have the proficiency one would hope for. In the twenty years or so I have been teaching in Singapore at enrichment centres, I have, sadly, seen the landscape become more variegated, with a tendency towards the downside. For the record, I am a native speaker.

Reply to how to acquire a proper English accent in Singapore on Tue, 12 Jan 2016 07:26:30 GMT

Baby JB — Tue, 12 Jan 2016 07:26:30 GMT

lee_yl:
The root of the problem is that we have adopted Singlish as our Mother Tongue.

To speak proper English, we need to learn English as a foreign language in the same way our kids learn Chinese today, if you notice some kids speak Chinese with a true-blue Beijing accent because they only get to practise speaking Chinese with their PRC teachers/tutors and are not \"contaminated\" by the local Chinese since they do not use it at home and outside the classroom.

The home and school environment shape how we learn and use spoken languages.

We should thus not use poorly spoken English at home if the parents are not comfortable speaking in English. Should just be natural and use the actual mother tongue at home so as to allow the child to learn proper English in school.

As the school environment is equally important, judicious care has to be exercised in selecting the school. Going to ACS, MGS, SCGS etc. where the school has a strong English speaking environment, will help as the kid will be exposed to good articulation and proper grammar. Attending English enrichment with native speakers of English as the teachers may also help.

Hi lee_yl,

My hubby second your opinions.... Hence, when I discuss with him which English enrichment programme to enrol my child in? He immediately choose the one with natives teachers. When I wanted to consider enrichment centres with local teachers, he cautions me to think twice.....

Reply to how to acquire a proper English accent in Singapore on Fri, 13 Feb 2015 12:01:26 GMT

zbear — Fri, 13 Feb 2015 12:01:26 GMT

Nebbermind:
Can you do a 'Leticia'?

Sorry to sidetrack a little from this topic, but I think Michelle Chong is really good with Lulu, Leticia etc.

Reply to how to acquire a proper English accent in Singapore on Wed, 11 Feb 2015 09:59:18 GMT

D3-n — Wed, 11 Feb 2015 09:59:18 GMT

slmkhoo:
KSP:
Want English accent? Send the kids to international school. As long as a kid is in SG gov school from P1, no matter what the family background, they will end up speaking perfect Singlish.

Does anyone here think one with English accent will have advantage during job interview? Or will stand out from others in a workplace?
Speaking perfect Singlish is not a bad thing. The bad thing would be if the student cannot code switch to standard English (no need ang moh accent) when necessary. There are many who went through Singapore schools who speak standard English without a foreign accent, but unfortunately, they don't seem to form the majority. I don't think an English accent will necessarily stand a student in better stead in a job interview (may make people thing he's really strange or putting it on), but standard English will certainly be more favourably regarded than Singlish.

I think that Karenmok's concern is a valid one, and one that applies to many kids in Singapore.

Ability to code-switch is of utmost importance. I for one fully support the keeping of Singlish because it's our creole, an instrinsic part of who we are. However, the pretext has to be a firm foundation of the English grammar and fluent spoken English.

As for the advantage during job interview, rather than the English accent per say, I would think being eloquent will score more brownie points. Eloquence is often equated with intelligence (even though it may not always be true). But that's the impression it creates, and job interview is largely about that....first impression.

Reply to how to acquire a proper English accent in Singapore on Wed, 11 Feb 2015 09:51:33 GMT

lee_yl — Wed, 11 Feb 2015 09:51:33 GMT

The root of the problem is that we have adopted Singlish as our Mother Tongue.

To speak proper English, we need to learn English as a foreign language in the same way our kids learn Chinese today, if you notice some kids speak Chinese with a true-blue Beijing accent because they only get to practise speaking Chinese with their PRC teachers/tutors and are not "contaminated" by the local Chinese since they do not use it at home and outside the classroom.

The home and school environment shape how we learn and use spoken languages.

We should thus not use poorly spoken English at home if the parents are not comfortable speaking in English. Should just be natural and use the actual mother tongue at home so as to allow the child to learn proper English in school.

As the school environment is equally important, judicious care has to be exercised in selecting the school. Going to ACS, MGS, SCGS etc. where the school has a strong English speaking environment, will help as the kid will be exposed to good articulation and proper grammar. Attending English enrichment with native speakers of English as the teachers may also help.

Reply to how to acquire a proper English accent in Singapore on Wed, 11 Feb 2015 08:52:37 GMT

Nebbermind — Wed, 11 Feb 2015 08:52:37 GMT

lee_yl:
Ladies and gentlemen, poor karenmok has been prominent with her absence after the barrage of \"negative\" posts. Please cut her some slack, from another perspective, her question is most innocuous.

I thought her absence was due to too much info

Reply to how to acquire a proper English accent in Singapore on Wed, 11 Feb 2015 08:42:59 GMT

sharonkhoo — Wed, 11 Feb 2015 08:42:59 GMT

KSP:
Want English accent? Send the kids to international school. As long as a kid is in SG gov school from P1, no matter what the family background, they will end up speaking perfect Singlish.

Does anyone here think one with English accent will have advantage during job interview? Or will stand out from others in a workplace?

Speaking perfect Singlish is not a bad thing. The bad thing would be if the student cannot code switch to standard English (no need ang moh accent) when necessary. There are many who went through Singapore schools who speak standard English without a foreign accent, but unfortunately, they don't seem to form the majority. I don't think an English accent will necessarily stand a student in better stead in a job interview (may make people thing he's really strange or putting it on), but standard English will certainly be more favourably regarded than Singlish.

I think that Karenmok's concern is a valid one, and one that applies to many kids in Singapore.

Reply to how to acquire a proper English accent in Singapore on Wed, 11 Feb 2015 08:24:53 GMT

lee_yl — Wed, 11 Feb 2015 08:24:53 GMT

Ladies and gentlemen, poor karenmok has been prominent with her absence after the barrage of "negative" posts. Please cut her some slack, from another perspective, her question is most innocuous.

Reply to how to acquire a proper English accent in Singapore on Wed, 11 Feb 2015 07:35:55 GMT

jetsetter — Wed, 11 Feb 2015 07:35:55 GMT

Nebbermind:
jetsetter:

But having said that, I myself can feign a lot of foreign accents! I can speak fluently like a BBC in Britain and like an ABC in US and China, and no one can tell I am from Singapore!! And I am not a linguist or actor! muahahaah....
Can you do a 'Leticia'?

Yes! and the bimbotic Barbarella and Lulu too!

I feigned an impeccable american accent for 2 wks in usa last yr and my boy was wondering if I was possessed!

As La Femme Nikita, I need to be able to code-switch. :imcool:

Reply to how to acquire a proper English accent in Singapore on Wed, 11 Feb 2015 07:31:23 GMT

KSP — Wed, 11 Feb 2015 07:31:23 GMT

Want English accent? Send the kids to international school. As long as a kid is in SG gov school from P1, no matter what the family background, they will end up speaking perfect Singlish.

Does anyone here think one with English accent will have advantage during job interview? Or will stand out from others in a workplace?

Reply to how to acquire a proper English accent in Singapore on Wed, 11 Feb 2015 07:13:20 GMT

Nebbermind — Wed, 11 Feb 2015 07:13:20 GMT

janet88:
Nebbermind:
[quote=\"jetsetter\"]

But having said that, I myself can feign a lot of foreign accents! I can speak fluently like a BBC in Britain and like an ABC in US and China, and no one can tell I am from Singapore!! And I am not a linguist or actor! muahahaah....
Can you do a 'Leticia'?

Good morning mam, good morning sir...my name is Leticia and I am a maid.[/quote]Janet, please record your voice and upload so we can hear your version!!

Reply to how to acquire a proper English accent in Singapore on Wed, 11 Feb 2015 07:10:45 GMT

janet88 — Wed, 11 Feb 2015 07:10:45 GMT

Nebbermind:
jetsetter:

But having said that, I myself can feign a lot of foreign accents! I can speak fluently like a BBC in Britain and like an ABC in US and China, and no one can tell I am from Singapore!! And I am not a linguist or actor! muahahaah....
Can you do a 'Leticia'?

Good morning mam, good morning sir...my name is Leticia and I am a maid.

Reply to how to acquire a proper English accent in Singapore on Wed, 11 Feb 2015 07:00:11 GMT

Nebbermind — Wed, 11 Feb 2015 07:00:11 GMT

jetsetter:

But having said that, I myself can feign a lot of foreign accents! I can speak fluently like a BBC in Britain and like an ABC in US and China, and no one can tell I am from Singapore!! And I am not a linguist or actor! muahahaah....

Can you do a 'Leticia'?

Reply to how to acquire a proper English accent in Singapore on Wed, 11 Feb 2015 06:45:43 GMT

ChiefKiasu — Wed, 11 Feb 2015 06:45:43 GMT

The purpose of spoken language is to communicate. The only good reason why one needs an accent is to make oneself "understandable" to the other party. Speak with ang moh accent to locals and they either scratch their head wondering what you are saying, or they think you are trying to be attas. Speak with Singlish accent to ang mohs and they genuinely think you are speaking in Chinese, not English.

So the issue is not what accent you are using, but rather, whether you are getting your message getting across to your audience.

Reply to how to acquire a proper English accent in Singapore on Wed, 11 Feb 2015 03:53:01 GMT

jetsetter — Wed, 11 Feb 2015 03:53:01 GMT

karenmok:

Hi,
Looks like you are aware of the precise problem many Singaporeans face and you also have helped some in overcoming these problems.
Would you be kind enough to suggest how my kids can acquire a better/more correct pronunciation? I came across this word \"salmon\". Looks like \"l\" is silent here. I am getting confused by the sheer number of rules and exceptions.
Can you direct me to someone who can really help my kids, given all the ground we have covered here?

Listen to BBC or VOA, watch more English dramas/movies, join Speech & Drama classes taught by Brits/Americans, befriend angmoh kids...

Stress placements can be self-taught by checking the Oxford dictionary (if you want the RP pronunciation): [pur'chase] vs ['purchase]; ['calendar]

Silent 'l', 'b', 'h' , etc. are all captured in the dictionary too, but you need to know IPA. Watch more tv/listen to BBC lor.

Then again, within the UK and the US, you have so many different varieties to mimic. Some regions have more rhotic accents than others. You notice the Scots and Welsh speak differently from the \"educated\" Londoners? (sheesh, I'm sounding elitist)

RP has more open back vowels ('sure' is /ʃɔː/) and diphthongs (\"no\" is /əʊ/), while AmE has what we call \"flapping\" (\"water\" - /t/ is pronounced somewhat like /d/) and flat vowels (\"bæthroom\" is pronounced diff). If you go to Boston or Dallas, the people there also pronounce their words differently from the Californians?

Kids just need to sound intelligible; there's no need to mimic any foreign accent.

But having said that, I myself can feign a lot of foreign accents! I can speak fluently like a BBC in Britain and like an ABC in US and China, and no one can tell I am from Singapore!! And I am not a linguist or actor! muahahaah....