Man gets two weeks' jail for lying about address for daughte

Reply to Man gets two weeks' jail for lying about address for daughte on Thu, 19 Mar 2015 10:26:41 GMT

janet88 — Thu, 19 Mar 2015 10:26:41 GMT

Sun_2010:

As for P1 reg, while I agree all schools are not good schools, the reality is all teachers are not good teachers. So there will always be case of good school but bad form teacher, bad school good teacher. My take is schools may make only about a 10% difference. Some kids of my friends who arent in the high ability classes shared how the kids are given the short end of the stick in some \"good schools\". So a good school isnt a ticket to good education. Definitely not worth risks .

:goodpost:

Reply to Man gets two weeks' jail for lying about address for daughte on Thu, 19 Mar 2015 09:29:04 GMT

optimistforum — Thu, 19 Mar 2015 09:29:04 GMT

phtthp:
why are you amused ?

similar thing happen in London too ?

It happens all over the UK. The middle class do it the most. Eg, two years before secondary school those who desire the much sought after Church of England and Catholic schools start attending church - even if they are agnostics and aethists. Others game there way into schools in affluent catchments. The idea is that no one wants their dc to mix with the feral sorts, or the hoi polloi.

Reply to Man gets two weeks' jail for lying about address for daughte on Thu, 19 Mar 2015 09:15:50 GMT

limlim — Thu, 19 Mar 2015 09:15:50 GMT

Sun_2010:

Especially when one is rarely caught, it might be hard to refuse. It is still a wrong thing to do, but doing the right thing may also cost the person.

Just do it then. And face the music when caught.

Reply to Man gets two weeks' jail for lying about address for daughte on Thu, 19 Mar 2015 08:53:40 GMT

phtthp — Thu, 19 Mar 2015 08:53:40 GMT

why are you amused ?

similar thing happen in London too ?

Reply to Man gets two weeks' jail for lying about address for daughte on Thu, 19 Mar 2015 08:38:23 GMT

optimistforum — Thu, 19 Mar 2015 08:38:23 GMT

I am looking on with detached bemusement at the thread. Nice to know the same issues happen elsewhere. FWIW, I admire people who game the system. Here, we label them as the sharp-elbowed brigade.

Reply to Man gets two weeks' jail for lying about address for daughte on Thu, 19 Mar 2015 07:14:42 GMT

Funz — Thu, 19 Mar 2015 07:14:42 GMT

Fine tune how? To not allow for the use of a relative's address for registration even for genuine cases?

MOE allows that because that is the case for some people. Mother and father work long hours, kids are placed with a family member on week days with the mother and father returning there for meals. Kids may stay there but parents may not as there may not be enough room for them to all live together.

Whatever rules or law, there are bound to be loopholes that can be found. While the rules and laws are there to guide, set the boundaries and deter, onus is also on us to uphold it.

People want to exploit the loopholes and you don't know how to say no even though you know full well it is against the law and the problem lies with MOE?

Reply to Man gets two weeks' jail for lying about address for daughte on Thu, 19 Mar 2015 07:04:18 GMT

zakashi — Thu, 19 Mar 2015 07:04:18 GMT

I still condemn the act of those who gave false information during P1 registration. They deserve the harsh punishment. As I mentioned earlier, there are some people who managed to scott free. I know that this is a serious matter. I did not want to get into trouble for letting others to use my address for P1 registration into schools along Dunearn road, not even my or DH’s siblings children. However, it is quite hard. A few of them have already approached me to use my address for the near future P1 registration. They claimed many are doing that and I knew it also. That is the reason why I posted a statement here for opinion and friendly discussion. Thanks to some members here who understand and replied to me kindly. I think MOE seriously need to fine tune the terms with regards to the address.

Reply to Man gets two weeks' jail for lying about address for daughte on Thu, 19 Mar 2015 05:46:05 GMT

jetsetter — Thu, 19 Mar 2015 05:46:05 GMT

pirate:
phtthp:
[quote=\"janet88\"]If genuinely looking after parents, is it going to be 3 days here and 3 days there and Sunday at own home?

Kids need a proper place to do their work and a place to call home. MOE officers not 3 year old kids.
the investigating Officer can ask the school bus driver :
Monday to Friday : where (address ?) do you drop off this child, after school ?

can't lie

What school bus? This one is a rich family's game. How many cases of false addresses prosecuted you hear involve HDB addresses?[/quote]Er, no leh...could be not-so-rich family living in faraway land, riding on rich friend/relative's address near to elite schools, no?

After school, Cinderella must still ride the Pumpkin home after registration is over.

Reply to Man gets two weeks' jail for lying about address for daughte on Thu, 19 Mar 2015 05:14:08 GMT

12mum — Thu, 19 Mar 2015 05:14:08 GMT

To me, the recent posts is not merely abt not easy to say no to friends, relatives abt using one’s address to cheat.

so many posts have been asking for the father and child’s blood and some people are acting more righteous than others.

So please, before you cast a stone, take a look at yourself. Are you one of the guilty ones?

If you are a party to a crime (be it leading address or not reporting cheating cases by friends/relatives to authorities) then you have no right to condemn a stranger’s crime much even less going after the child.

Reply to Man gets two weeks' jail for lying about address for daughte on Thu, 19 Mar 2015 05:09:52 GMT

zakashi — Thu, 19 Mar 2015 05:09:52 GMT

jetsetter:
zakashi:

If you were denied from the said school, you will feel the pain and inconveniences.
So you abetted your relatives/friends in their cheating because you thought they would feel the \"pain and inconveniences\" if their kids were denied from the said school along Dunearn Road where you live?

Or the above refers to those genuine kids who were denied of their places due to abetment by reluctant property owners like your goodself?
zakashi:

Regarding school relocation, there is no vacancy and on waiting list. Yes, I know that a declaration as a caregiver has to be made. In fact, I am not the caregiver and I do not want to declare as one so that their children can go to the schools along DUNEARN road. Home within 1 km (ballot is required). My DH also feel hard to refuse them. They will say something about us. So as I said many times, MOE should change some of this term.
Huh? Why do you care what they will say about you?

MOE change what terms? Like allowing parents to use aunties/uncles/good friends' addresses if the school nearest to the kid's own house has \"no vacancy and on waiting list\"?

Please don't let them exploit you.

Thanks Jetsetter. I will not let them exploit me. I did not like the term which MOE allows closed ones to use the address.

Reply to Man gets two weeks' jail for lying about address for daughte on Thu, 19 Mar 2015 05:07:43 GMT

Sun_2010 — Thu, 19 Mar 2015 05:07:43 GMT

janet88:
Sun_2010:
Then it becomes hard to say no. It seems like \" you cant even do that for me? It doesnt even cost you a dime.\"

Especially when one is rarely caught, it might be hard to refuse. It is still a wrong thing to do, but doing the right thing may also cost the person.
it can be difficult to say no to a demanding relative and then the whole family starts to make you feel so guilty for saying no for 'just using your address'...which is why a serious penalty might help...if the person helping is going to lose his flat or jailed for example.

Exactly that is why a a harsher punishment will be a good deterrent.

For me, I am not that indebted anyone, so easy for me to say , \"sorry, its against my principles. My sincere advise to you is this - dont go via a path where you have to be looking over your shoulder all the time. \"

As for P1 reg, while I agree all schools are not good schools, the reality is all teachers are not good teachers. So there will always be case of good school but bad form teacher, bad school good teacher. My take is schools may make only about a 10% difference. Some kids of my friends who arent in the high ability classes shared how the kids are given the short end of the stick in some \"good schools\". So a good school isnt a ticket to good education. Definitely not worth risks .

Reply to Man gets two weeks' jail for lying about address for daughte on Thu, 19 Mar 2015 04:40:27 GMT

pirate — Thu, 19 Mar 2015 04:40:27 GMT

phtthp:
janet88:
If genuinely looking after parents, is it going to be 3 days here and 3 days there and Sunday at own home?

Kids need a proper place to do their work and a place to call home. MOE officers not 3 year old kids.
the investigating Officer can ask the school bus driver :
Monday to Friday : where (address ?) do you drop off this child, after school ?

can't lie

What school bus? This one is a rich family's game. How many cases of false addresses prosecuted you hear involve HDB addresses?

MOE officers are not 3 year old kids, but they have a different SOP. Show me one prosecution. They will not prosecute any case where the outcome in court is not certain and can put them in a bad light if it results in an acquittal. That's why they will only go after clear cut cases.

Reply to Man gets two weeks' jail for lying about address for daughte on Thu, 19 Mar 2015 04:29:18 GMT

phtthp — Thu, 19 Mar 2015 04:29:18 GMT

zakashi:

Regarding school relocation, there is no vacancy and on waiting list.
Yes, I know that a declaration as a caregiver has to be made.
In fact, I am not the caregiver and I do not want to declare as one so that their children can go to the schools along DUNEARN road.
Home within 1 km (balloting is required). My DH also feel hard to refuse them. They will say something about us.

So as I said many times, MOE should change some of this term.

schools check address.
if find out that more than 1 child (with different set of parents) are staying at the same, identical address, school will check why like that ?

if the child has been offered Transfer -
school at Dunearn road (or any other school) can stop the Transfer : since something already wrong, with identical address being used, by niece / nephew.

if one allow themselves to be made use of by cousins / relatives, they're also part of the cheating process

Reply to Man gets two weeks' jail for lying about address for daughte on Thu, 19 Mar 2015 04:26:14 GMT

jetsetter — Thu, 19 Mar 2015 04:26:14 GMT

zakashi:

If you were denied from the said school, you will feel the pain and inconveniences.

So you abetted your relatives/friends in their cheating because you thought they would feel the \"pain and inconveniences\" if their kids were denied from the said school along Dunearn Road where you live?

Or the above refers to those genuine kids who were denied of their places due to abetment by reluctant property owners like your goodself?

zakashi:

Regarding school relocation, there is no vacancy and on waiting list. Yes, I know that a declaration as a caregiver has to be made. In fact, I am not the caregiver and I do not want to declare as one so that their children can go to the schools along DUNEARN road. Home within 1 km (ballot is required). My DH also feel hard to refuse them. They will say something about us. So as I said many times, MOE should change some of this term.

Huh? Why do you care what they will say about you?

MOE change what terms? Like allowing parents to use aunties/uncles/good friends' addresses if the school nearest to the kid's own house has \"no vacancy and on waiting list\"?

Please don't let them exploit you.

Reply to Man gets two weeks' jail for lying about address for daughte on Thu, 19 Mar 2015 04:19:08 GMT

lee_yl — Thu, 19 Mar 2015 04:19:08 GMT

zakashi:

Thanks Lee Yl for your understanding and sharing. Regarding school relocation, there is no vacancy and on waiting list. Yes, I know that a declaration as a caregiver has to be made. In fact, I am not the caregiver and I do not want to declare as one so that their children can go to the schools along DUNEARN road. Home within 1 km (balloting is required). My DH also feel hard to refuse them. They will say something about us. So as I said many times, MOE should change some of this term.

Zakashi, although I understand the dilemma you are going thru, but that does not mean I agree one should be an accessory to cheating.

Regarding relocation, what i meant was for the whole family to relocate from the central area to eastern side (buy/rent) to be near your children's current school should you find the school good.

If your children are currently on waitlist for Dunearn Rd schools and if they are accepted subsequently, chances are that the schools might detect all your nieces and nephews to have registered in the same schools using your address when you officially register your children in the schools. Please think twice. That was what happened in the first cheating case where by system detected different sets of parents registered in same school using same address.

Reply to Man gets two weeks' jail for lying about address for daughte on Thu, 19 Mar 2015 04:18:12 GMT

phtthp — Thu, 19 Mar 2015 04:18:12 GMT

janet88:
If genuinely looking after parents, is it going to be 3 days here and 3 days there and Sunday at own home?

Kids need a proper place to do their work and a place to call home. MOE officers not 3 year old kids.

the investigating Officer can ask the school bus driver :
Monday to Friday : where (address ?) do you drop off this child, after school ?

can't lie

Reply to Man gets two weeks' jail for lying about address for daughte on Thu, 19 Mar 2015 04:14:52 GMT

janet88 — Thu, 19 Mar 2015 04:14:52 GMT

If genuinely looking after parents, is it going to be 3 days here and 3 days there and Sunday at own home? Kids need a proper place to do their work and a place to call home. MOE officers not 3 year old kids.

Reply to Man gets two weeks' jail for lying about address for daughte on Thu, 19 Mar 2015 04:07:00 GMT

pirate — Thu, 19 Mar 2015 04:07:00 GMT

limlim:

It is irrelevant the % of time they stay at the grandparent's place.

If they totally do not stay there from Mon-Fri, it is cheating.

If they stay for 1 day (say Monday), that means it is a feasible arrangement. If it is a feasible arrangement, why would anyone cook trouble for themselves to deviate from this arrangement and stay at other places from Tue to Fri?

It is all very well to say, but when it comes to enforcement, the authorities must be able to point to a specific rule to say, \"the parents of the kid must live/sleep at so and so place for X% of the time to be considered living there.\"

I am not aware of such a clear-cut rule. Is anyone aware of one?

As for why anyone would have such troublesome arrangement, who knows? Anybody thinks MOE won't back off if the father or mother gave some (even if cock and bull) story, \"We are already on the verge of separation and divorce, that's why like this! You think I want to go live with my mother-in-law three days a week ah? You want to make sure we end up in divorce, izzit?!\"

Alternatively, \"You don't know govt always encouraging us to live with our aged parents meh? But if we live with my parents, then my wife/hubby's parents how? So bo bian. We live 3 days a week with my parents and 3 days a week with my in-laws. To be fair to both my parents and in-laws, Sundays we alternate.\" :imanangel:

家家有本难念的经

So what if MOE officers pay a house visit and only the grandparents are at home. They can just say, \"What? Of course they are not home. The kid is at tuition and the parents are working. You don't know that's the norm nowadays meh? You want me to show you their bedroom?\" :rant:

Reply to Man gets two weeks' jail for lying about address for daughte on Thu, 19 Mar 2015 04:01:10 GMT

janet88 — Thu, 19 Mar 2015 04:01:10 GMT

I reminded my hubby NOT to feel intimidated by this selfish person.

If he has a problem telling her NO, I will help him.

Reply to Man gets two weeks' jail for lying about address for daughte on Thu, 19 Mar 2015 03:54:54 GMT

phtthp — Thu, 19 Mar 2015 03:54:54 GMT

janet88:

hubby told me his colleague wanted to use our address to register child for p1. I reminded him to tell that person not to think about it...because it is outright cheating. I know that person will pester him again...stay arms length from her.

counter ask your husband :
if he get into police trouble one day because of her, will his colleague help him get out of trouble ?

obviously No, because she herself also \"zi shen nan bao\"

Yes, ask him stay away from this selfish woman :
cause others to get into trouble, all because she selfishly dying to enrol her precious child into good, popular school
\"hai chun zi ma\"

Reply to Man gets two weeks' jail for lying about address for daughte on Thu, 19 Mar 2015 03:39:07 GMT

phtthp — Thu, 19 Mar 2015 03:39:07 GMT

janet88:
with p1 registration going to start in july, it's time for MOE and that missing reporter to show up regarding the dos and don'ts.

if using another person's address to register, then both offenders have to face the music...one for cheating, the other one (flat owner) for allowing person to cheat. this is definitely a legit reason to refuse.

this missing reporter can summarize the key, salient points discussed in this thread, approach MOE highest ranked Officer : how they going to addresss parents' concern, voiced by public ?

Reply to Man gets two weeks' jail for lying about address for daughte on Thu, 19 Mar 2015 03:37:21 GMT

floppy — Thu, 19 Mar 2015 03:37:21 GMT

Funz:

These will be times that I will act the docile wife and blame the hubby.

\"I'm so sorry, not that I don't want to help, but my hubby is dead set against it. You know, the house is not solely in my name, moreover, he is the one paying the bulk of the loan, so in this instance I don't have much say.\"

The wife should blame the husband.
The husband should blame the wife.
If all else fails, blame the dog (or cat).

The other party will generally get the hint.

Reply to Man gets two weeks' jail for lying about address for daughte on Thu, 19 Mar 2015 03:32:21 GMT

phtthp — Thu, 19 Mar 2015 03:32:21 GMT

Blessedwife:
I won't allow anyone be it relatives or close friends to use my address for P1 registration ! I will tell them I don't want to get caught and be involved in any cheating case.

Once, my friend asked if she can use my address to apply for PR so that the authority believed that she is living in SG when she is actually staying in JB. I rejected her.
(not concerning P1 registration but it's still a case of cheating in my opinion).

Yes, Blessedwife, you are wise.

because once get caught :
not only self-centered, selfish relatives drag you down into murky water with them, but one can also be jailed, lose house.

if lose house : where your husband, kids going to stay

if relatives love you :
do you think they want to risk getting you involved, possibly end up go jail, if someone blow whistle loudly ?
?

in life, a Chinese saying :
don't ever make foolish mistake.
Some mistake very costly : cannot U turn back.
\"yi shi zu cheng, qian gu hen\"