<![CDATA[Pay for what you get?]]>

slmkhoo:
ammonite:

I love working with young kids, but the dismal pay really puts me off.


Have you checked recently? Now that preschool education is being talked up, and they are recruiting graduates, things may be better?

No hard data here but was just checking with a student who have graduated from the ECE course; and also ex colleagues who have been in this industry for many years:

1. Young girl in her early 20s. She was offered $2,300 at My First Skool, fresh from the ECE diploma course.
2. Former colleague. Local Chinese language teacher in her 50s. Started teaching when she was in her 20s. Changed 3 kindergartens during her time in the industry. Her last drawn pay in a local church kindergarten was slightly less than $2,000. It is known that kindys pay lesser due to the school holidays and dwindling enrolment.
3. Former colleague. Local English language teacher in her early 60s. Started teaching when she was in her early 30s. Took a break mid-career and went to do admin work but went back to preschool field after about 5 years. Finished her diploma in ECE in early 2000s. \"Downgrade\" herself and took on an assistant teacher post in a premium preschool centre (prefer a less stressful role). Pay is currently around mid to high $2,000 plus.

ECDA requires preschool teachers teaching nursery children onwards to have a diploma in Early Childhood Education only. So the pay for preschool teachers is pegged to diploma level pay in many local preschools. For \"premium\" centres, they may require the teachers to have a degree in ECE on top of the diploma but I am not sure how much more they are paid for the degree.

I hope more of our local universities will start offering Bachelor degree in Early Childhood Studies soon, in addition to SIM (now called University of Social Sciences).

]]>https://forum.kiasuparents.com/topic/82285/pay-for-what-you-getRSS for NodeWed, 13 May 2026 18:19:17 GMTMon, 18 Sep 2017 07:53:26 GMT60<![CDATA[Reply to Pay for what you get? on Mon, 18 Sep 2017 07:36:53 GMT]]>

slmkhoo:
Han Seo:

I don't know whether to laugh or to be angry. He thinks being a pilot is enough to qualify him to be a preschool curriculum writer as well.


There will always be some people who are ignorant. Ask him if he would like you to help draw up flight training materials!

I had nearly wanted to ask him that question! The public perception is that anyone can be a preschool teacher and anyone can write preschool curriculum. How hard can it be to just teach ABCs and 123, right?

I was observing a practicum session a year ago. The teacher was asking this 3 year old to count the number of objects on the board. The girl counted, \"1,2,3,4,5\". The teacher answered, \"Good, how many are there?\" The child answered, \"1,2,3,4,5.\" The teacher asked again, \"How many altogether? Count again.\" The girl repeated, \"1,2,3,4,5\". The poor teacher was exasperated.

The teacher did not understand this girl has not grasped the concept of cardinality, that is, that the last number represents the total quantity.

]]>https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/1801841https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/1801841Mon, 18 Sep 2017 07:36:53 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Pay for what you get? on Mon, 18 Sep 2017 07:36:08 GMT]]>I think recruiting Uni grads as preschool teachers is definitely good.


But how to sustain paying $4K-$5K a month to an experienced preschool teacher (Uni grad) while keeping the fees affordable? Next, there’s also the issue of career progression. If one chooses to specialise in preschool education, what would be his career prospects for the next 10-20 years? Keep on teaching preschoolers? Pretty stuck.

]]>https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/1801840https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/1801840Mon, 18 Sep 2017 07:36:08 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Pay for what you get? on Mon, 18 Sep 2017 07:28:30 GMT]]>

slmkhoo:
starlight1968sg:

Preschool education can be the first education for children. It is of utmost importance


I agree with you, and I think most people would too. The issue is what form of preschool education is the best? I agree with Hercules that simpler is usually better. I believe that less electronics, more free play, more mess, basic toys, less formal teaching, is better for small kids. I would also be doubtful about a preschool that is too pristine and neat and has too much \"curriculum\". \"Simple\" preschools would actually not need to spend too much on anything other than teachers. So maybe paying less may give a better result than paying more!

You would love the Waldorf education, in that case. It gels very much with your beliefs in many aspects. A former student of mine has gone to NZ to be trained in this approach and has just returned to start her own Waldorf kindergarten.

]]>https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/1801835https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/1801835Mon, 18 Sep 2017 07:28:30 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Pay for what you get? on Mon, 18 Sep 2017 07:23:20 GMT]]>

hercules:
Han Seo:

Just be aware that many branded centres spent the bulk of your school fees on marketing gimmicks. Ultimately, the human factors play a crucial role in the centre quality. A good teacher knows how to adapt and make changes to a lousy curriculum whereas even if you have the most impressive curriculum, an incompetent teacher would not know how to bring it alive. And without good leadership, the good teachers will leave in all likelihood. So you have to look beyond what the centre presents to you on paper.


It is difficult for inexperienced new parents to discern what's good or bad. Since they are not sure and so some may use 'price' to determine it (the higher the better).

Have you visited Mind Champ centres? I observed they usually (maybe every centre is alike since this is their brand image) have very big reception space that is 'impressive' in most parents' eyes (so 'atas'). But for me, I will not pay the high fees to subsidise this big 'dead space' not meant for kids' use but for 'marketing impression'.

So the market is still interesting with different images to attract different types of parents.

This is really unfortunate. Perhaps parents should read up on some early childhood journals on how to discern a quality preschool centre. Ultimately, the child's first education begins at home. The caregivers play the most crucial role in the child's overall development. However, for children who come from disadvantaged homes, a quality preschool can make a difference. One important factor is due to the lack of stimulation in the homes of these children. The most well known research are The Perry Preschool Project and the Abedecerian project; both from the States. Unfortunately, as of now, there is no local research on quality centres and its impact on the Singapore children. I hope MOE can start a research project on this. Asian countries are unique with our \"Tiger Mum\" syndrome (and now \"Loving Lions\" syndrome) and for Singapore, our focus on bilingualism. It will be interesting to see the findings.

Read today's Stratis Times on a premium preschool that has upped the ante: organic shower foam; pediatric nutritionist and hotel chef to cook your child's meals. Price tag? $2,200 a month. What's next? Pedicure and manicure services for your young ones?

]]>https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/1801832https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/1801832Mon, 18 Sep 2017 07:23:20 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Pay for what you get? on Mon, 18 Sep 2017 01:41:55 GMT]]>Ceiling too low.

]]>https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/1801749https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/1801749Mon, 18 Sep 2017 01:41:55 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Pay for what you get? on Mon, 18 Sep 2017 01:39:51 GMT]]>

ammonite:
I love working with young kids, but the dismal pay really puts me off.

Have you checked recently? Now that preschool education is being talked up, and they are recruiting graduates, things may be better?

]]>https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/1801748https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/1801748Mon, 18 Sep 2017 01:39:51 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Pay for what you get? on Mon, 18 Sep 2017 01:36:50 GMT]]>I love working with young kids, but the dismal pay really puts me off.


I must say that I cannot put a price on some of the truly wonderful and loving teachers my children have met along the way. There is such a marked difference between a teacher who has the emotional generosity towards her charges versus one who just wants to assert authority and humiliate those who cannot stand up for themselves.

]]>https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/1801745https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/1801745Mon, 18 Sep 2017 01:36:50 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Pay for what you get? on Mon, 18 Sep 2017 01:34:12 GMT]]>

ammonite:
slmkhoo:


... The Early Childhood Education diplomas in the polys are quite competitive now - I hear they aren't very easy to get in. I have another friend, my own age (50s), who became a kindy teacher after her own kids had reached school age, and did the diploma part-time. All these 3 ladies really love kids, and with the training they've received, I would have been happy to park my kids with them when they were young.

Does the pay now justify the investment that had gone into their (teachers') education and training?

I don't really know, but I believe that even the graduates are not as well remunerated as Pr school teachers. However, I hope this will change as preschool education becomes more valued. The main thing is that if the emphasis is on swish facilities and fancy curricula, then the money needs to come from somewhere - higher fees or lower salaries? Basically, I think parents need to realise that investing in the people who are with the kids for hours each day is more value for money than paying for the other things. For those who are willing to accept lower pay because they have a great love for the work they do and the children they care for - good for them! (My poly friend shed tears at the end of her internship recently, and still tries to go back to visit 'her' kids when she can.)

]]>https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/1801744https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/1801744Mon, 18 Sep 2017 01:34:12 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Pay for what you get? on Mon, 18 Sep 2017 00:52:09 GMT]]>Mine went to PCF heeheehee for convenience as just downstairs from my babysitter’s place.

]]>https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/1801737https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/1801737Mon, 18 Sep 2017 00:52:09 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Pay for what you get? on Mon, 18 Sep 2017 00:26:46 GMT]]>I do NOT believe that one needs to pay more to get more out of preschool education.


I sent mine to a 3hr church based kindergarten (though we are not Christians) because its fees are cheap ($200+ per month) and comes with a large school compound. This kindergarten has more than 40 years of history. I know of geppers/law/med grads (neighbors) who attended this kindergarten. Of course, I am not saying that going to this kindy will become gifted but there is no need to attend $2000/month preschools.

My DD1 had a kindy classmate who attended 2 different kindergartens in a day. However, the mum decided to quit the branded & expensive one after her daughter fedback that both kindergartens sort of teach repeating stuff, A-Z, numbers 1 2 3...

http://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/education/pre-schools-with-plenty-of-frills-at-double-the-fees

]]>https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/1801725https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/1801725Mon, 18 Sep 2017 00:26:46 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Pay for what you get? on Sun, 17 Sep 2017 23:39:12 GMT]]>Am in the aviation industry. I have to say that there are lots of rules and regulations from local and international authorities to obey or follow. So it is challenging to just keep up with the changes


As for Teachers, esp preschool, they nurture our future leaders and this part makes the key difference

Yes, there is now more recognition and importance given to preschool Teachers which is commendable

]]>https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/1801702https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/1801702Sun, 17 Sep 2017 23:39:12 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Pay for what you get? on Sun, 17 Sep 2017 23:34:44 GMT]]>

slmkhoo:

... The Early Childhood Education diplomas in the polys are quite competitive now - I hear they aren't very easy to get in. I have another friend, my own age (50s), who became a kindy teacher after her own kids had reached school age, and did the diploma part-time. All these 3 ladies really love kids, and with the training they've received, I would have been happy to park my kids with them when they were young.
Does the pay now justify the investment that had gone into their (teachers') education and training?

]]>https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/1801700https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/1801700Sun, 17 Sep 2017 23:34:44 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Pay for what you get? on Sun, 17 Sep 2017 23:16:14 GMT]]>

Han Seo:
I don't know whether to laugh or to be angry. He thinks being a pilot is enough to qualify him to be a preschool curriculum writer as well.

There will always be some people who are ignorant. Ask him if he would like you to help draw up flight training materials!

]]>https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/1801696https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/1801696Sun, 17 Sep 2017 23:16:14 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Pay for what you get? on Sun, 17 Sep 2017 23:13:10 GMT]]>

Han Seo:
starlight1968sg:

Good dedicated teachers are hard to come by.

Good committed preschool teachers are even harder to bump into

True. In the nordic countries, preschool teachers require a Bachelor's degree; similar to teachers teaching at the higher level (primary school & secondary school). Singapore's bar is set too low; only 5 GCE 'O' levels plus a diploma in Early Childhood Education. Many people assume that passion and patience alone are enough to work with young children. It couldn't be further from the truth. Very young children lack the language to express their needs and make their thinking visible to others. It requires a highly skilled preschool educator to be able to observe and analyse the child's behaviour in order to understand the child's needs and what is going on in their heads. And the early years lay the foundation for nurturing a person's positive dispositions. Again, this requires a highly skilled teacher who understands child development and who is able to critically translate this understanding into practice.

I think, with the greater recognition of the importance of preschool education, it's getting better now. People do realise that training is needed beyond just liking kids. Based on my very small sample of people I know, I have a friend who is a teacher in an MOE kindergarten who is a graduate (just graduated about 3 yrs ago, then did an Early Childhood Education course). Another friend has nearly completed her poly diploma and has been offered a job at PCF. She is a fairly good student and I would expect that she will eventually further her education. The Early Childhood Education diplomas in the polys are quite competitive now - I hear they aren't very easy to get in. I have another friend, my own age (50s), who became a kindy teacher after her own kids had reached school age, and did the diploma part-time. All these 3 ladies really love kids, and with the training they've received, I would have been happy to park my kids with them when they were young.

]]>https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/1801695https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/1801695Sun, 17 Sep 2017 23:13:10 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Pay for what you get? on Sun, 17 Sep 2017 15:24:20 GMT]]>

starlight1968sg:
Good dedicated teachers are hard to come by.

Good committed preschool teachers are even harder to bump into
True. In the nordic countries, preschool teachers require a Bachelor's degree; similar to teachers teaching at the higher level (primary school & secondary school). Singapore's bar is set too low; only 5 GCE 'O' levels plus a diploma in Early Childhood Education. Many people assume that passion and patience alone are enough to work with young children. It couldn't be further from the truth. Very young children lack the language to express their needs and make their thinking visible to others. It requires a highly skilled preschool educator to be able to observe and analyse the child's behaviour in order to understand the child's needs and what is going on in their heads. And the early years lay the foundation for nurturing a person's positive dispositions. Again, this requires a highly skilled teacher who understands child development and who is able to critically translate this understanding into practice.

Few months ago, someone approached me for advice in setting up a preschool centre (I train preschool teachers and I have been in this industry for more than 20 years). This person is in the aviation industry. He asked me how long it took for 1 writer to write the entire preschool curriculum from 0-6 years old and I gave him an estimated time frame based on my experience. He was shocked and then added,\"What if I helped the writer to write some of the curriculum? Will this speed things up?\"

I don't know whether to laugh or to be angry. He thinks being a pilot is enough to qualify him to be a preschool curriculum writer as well.

]]>https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/1801668https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/1801668Sun, 17 Sep 2017 15:24:20 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Pay for what you get? on Sun, 17 Sep 2017 09:15:11 GMT]]>

Han Seo:
Just be aware that many branded centres spent the bulk of your school fees on marketing gimmicks. Ultimately, the human factors play a crucial role in the centre quality. A good teacher knows how to adapt and make changes to a lousy curriculum whereas even if you have the most impressive curriculum, an incompetent teacher would not know how to bring it alive. And without good leadership, the good teachers will leave in all likelihood. So you have to look beyond what the centre presents to you on paper.

It is difficult for inexperienced new parents to discern what's good or bad. Since they are not sure and so some may use 'price' to determine it (the higher the better).

Have you visited Mind Champ centres? I observed they usually (maybe every centre is alike since this is their brand image) have very big reception space that is 'impressive' in most parents' eyes (so 'atas'). But for me, I will not pay the high fees to subsidise this big 'dead space' not meant for kids' use but for 'marketing impression'.

So the market is still interesting with different images to attract different types of parents.

]]>https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/1801623https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/1801623Sun, 17 Sep 2017 09:15:11 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Pay for what you get? on Sun, 17 Sep 2017 08:01:35 GMT]]>Good dedicated teachers are hard to come by.

Good committed preschool teachers are even harder to bump into

]]>https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/1801602https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/1801602Sun, 17 Sep 2017 08:01:35 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Pay for what you get? on Sun, 17 Sep 2017 07:11:45 GMT]]>Just be aware that many branded centres spent the bulk of your school fees on marketing gimmicks. Ultimately, the human factors play a crucial role in the centre quality. A good teacher knows how to adapt and make changes to a lousy curriculum whereas even if you have the most impressive curriculum, an incompetent teacher would not know how to bring it alive. And without good leadership, the good teachers will leave in all likelihood. So you have to look beyond what the centre presents to you on paper.

]]>https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/1801594https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/1801594Sun, 17 Sep 2017 07:11:45 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Pay for what you get? on Fri, 15 Sep 2017 10:27:21 GMT]]>I see more and more young children using gadgets. I worry for their eye sight


Does branded preschool make our children better?

]]>https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/1801334https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/1801334Fri, 15 Sep 2017 10:27:21 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Pay for what you get? on Fri, 15 Sep 2017 08:40:33 GMT]]>

starlight1968sg:
Preschool education can be the first education for children. It is of utmost importance

I agree with you, and I think most people would too. The issue is what form of preschool education is the best? I agree with Hercules that simpler is usually better. I believe that less electronics, more free play, more mess, basic toys, less formal teaching, is better for small kids. I would also be doubtful about a preschool that is too pristine and neat and has too much \"curriculum\". \"Simple\" preschools would actually not need to spend too much on anything other than teachers. So maybe paying less may give a better result than paying more!

]]>https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/1801304https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/1801304Fri, 15 Sep 2017 08:40:33 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Pay for what you get? on Fri, 15 Sep 2017 08:27:47 GMT]]>Preschool education can be the first education for children. It is of utmost importance

]]>https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/1801301https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/1801301Fri, 15 Sep 2017 08:27:47 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Pay for what you get? on Fri, 15 Sep 2017 08:25:06 GMT]]>

hercules:
sundownprince:

I realized the delivery is just as important as the curriculum. In some premium preschools the delivery is crappy, unfortunately. Having a big headache trying to decide which preschool to send my number 2 too.


I went shopping for a preschool for my grand nephew recently and revisited the centre that my grand niece used to attend.

I smelled a vast difference in the centre after walking in. I was told that the centre was sold to a 'rich conglomerate'.

It was bright and clean. The children's work that used to be displayed at child's height was no longer there and was shifted to a higher level (adult's height) and nicely framed. The premises was so neat and clean that made me wonder there were really active kids inside actively doing things. Overall, it looked very 'appealing' and 'high class' and fees increased by about 40% since the change of management.

I said my thank you after touring that place with a negative connotation as the new place is more to market to inexperienced parents than to cater to young children.

I heard there are many rich China Chinese going around buying preschools so that they can secure their 'investment visas'. Quite many preschools in Singapore currently have China Chinese capital backing I was told. I wonder what do most of these people really know about preschool education other than they have fat pockets to anyhow buy.

I am still shopping around (basically will discount any centres that have China Chinese owners as somehow I just cannot trust them to be interested in real kids education).

This is so true... I won't discount the fact that they used to be good... but even selling my kidney won't cover the school fees for long... :siam:

]]>https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/1801300https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/1801300Fri, 15 Sep 2017 08:25:06 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Pay for what you get? on Fri, 15 Sep 2017 08:20:13 GMT]]>

sundownprince:
I realized the delivery is just as important as the curriculum. In some premium preschools the delivery is crappy, unfortunately. Having a big headache trying to decide which preschool to send my number 2 too.

I went shopping for a preschool for my grand nephew recently and revisited the centre that my grand niece used to attend.

I smelled a vast difference in the centre after walking in. I was told that the centre was sold to a 'rich conglomerate'.

It was bright and clean. The children's work that used to be displayed at child's height was no longer there and was shifted to a higher level (adult's height) and nicely framed. The premises was so neat and clean that made me wonder there were really active kids inside actively doing things. Overall, it looked very 'appealing' and 'high class' and fees increased by about 40% since the change of management.

The Principal attempted to impress me with their 'high tech' curriculum that includes robotics and AI (basically whatever that's hot in the market now they tried to incorporate into their 'curriculum'). I was not impressed at all as I strongly believe children learn best through small little 'boring' things with minimal electronic gadgets and such 'high tech' knowledge can wait when building simple but useful life long skills. AI for preschoolers - to me it's just an overkill if not anyhow kill.

I said my thank you after touring that place with a negative connotation as the new place is more to market to inexperienced parents than to cater to young children.

I heard there are many rich China Chinese going around buying preschools so that they can secure their 'investment visas'. Quite many preschools in Singapore currently have China Chinese capital backing I was told. I wonder what do most of these people really know about preschool education other than they have fat pockets to anyhow buy.

I am still shopping around (basically will discount any centres that have China Chinese owners as somehow I just cannot trust them to be interested in real kids education).

]]>https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/1801299https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/1801299Fri, 15 Sep 2017 08:20:13 GMT