<![CDATA[Germanwings Flight GWI18G Crash]]>

atrecord:
pirated:

[quote=\"starlight1968sg\"]
OT: related to MI185 tragedy, there was no conclusion on the cause of it.

That's more like refusal by Silkair to admit the findings of NTSB

Admission means hefty liability

Yes, if there are more troubled pilots on the job, there's going to be no end to nightmares.

For MI185, not sure what would be the implication on insurance payout if it was declared a suicide. Would insurance refuse to pay, in which case the airline would bear full costs? It's likely to manifest in this tragedy, now that it's pretty much accepted as pilot suicide(-cum-murder?).[/quote]I don't think the airline's admission has much to do with it as long as the investigation is conclusive, which isn't in this case as both investigators couldn't reach a consensus. Adding to the complication, a Los Angeles jury independently concluded that the rudder control systems the B737 was faulty (which the FAA did issue a directive to upgrade the systems for all B737 in 2002, 5 years after the accident).

In SilkAir's case, they paid the max amount payable under the Warsaw Convention. Hence, I doubt \"admission means hefty liability\" applies if they have already chosen to pay the max amount. In Germanwings case, the Montreal Convention (which replaces the Warsaw Convention) applies. The carrier is strictly liable for proven damages up to 113,100 special drawing rights (SDR).

Personal insurance will still pay out in such cases.

]]>https://forum.kiasuparents.com/topic/82417/germanwings-flight-gwi18g-crashRSS for NodeSun, 03 May 2026 22:14:08 GMTMon, 20 Apr 2015 14:18:37 GMT60<![CDATA[Reply to Germanwings Flight GWI18G Crash on Mon, 20 Apr 2015 09:58:45 GMT]]>

pirated:
starlight1968sg:

[quote=\"pokoyoko\"]

Mentioned in the article:

In 1997, a SilkAir Boeing 737 crashed in Indonesia, killing all 104 people aboard. The pilot had recently been demoted in the wake of a complaint about his behavior and what one United States government report termed “cowboy practices.” Investigators later learned he was also under financial and family strains. United States investigators concluded that he had committed suicide. But Indonesian investigators ruled out that explanation.

I totally forgot about this incident...but knowing that it's not the first time this has happened makes it even scarier! :nailbite:

OT: related to MI185 tragedy, there was no conclusion on the cause of it.

That's more like refusal by Silkair to admit the findings of NTSB

Admission means hefty liability[/quote]Yes, if there are more troubled pilots on the job, there's going to be no end to nightmares.

For MI185, not sure what would be the implication on insurance payout if it was declared a suicide. Would insurance refuse to pay, in which case the airline would bear full costs? It's likely to manifest in this tragedy, now that it's pretty much accepted as pilot suicide(-cum-murder?).

]]>https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/1493195https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/1493195Mon, 20 Apr 2015 09:58:45 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Germanwings Flight GWI18G Crash on Sun, 19 Apr 2015 07:47:20 GMT]]>

starlight1968sg:
pokoyoko:

[quote=\"pirated\"]Lufthansa betrayed customers' faith in the rigour of their flight safety


http://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/19/world ... .html?_r=0

Mentioned in the article:

In 1997, a SilkAir Boeing 737 crashed in Indonesia, killing all 104 people aboard. The pilot had recently been demoted in the wake of a complaint about his behavior and what one United States government report termed “cowboy practices.” Investigators later learned he was also under financial and family strains. United States investigators concluded that he had committed suicide. But Indonesian investigators ruled out that explanation.

I totally forgot about this incident...but knowing that it's not the first time this has happened makes it even scarier! :nailbite:

OT: related to MI185 tragedy, there was no conclusion on the cause of it.[/quote]That's more like refusal by Silkair to admit the findings of NTSB

Admission means hefty liability

]]>https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/1492355https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/1492355Sun, 19 Apr 2015 07:47:20 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Germanwings Flight GWI18G Crash on Sun, 19 Apr 2015 07:41:04 GMT]]>

pokoyoko:
pirated:

Lufthansa betrayed customers' faith in the rigour of their flight safety


http://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/19/world ... .html?_r=0

Mentioned in the article:

In 1997, a SilkAir Boeing 737 crashed in Indonesia, killing all 104 people aboard. The pilot had recently been demoted in the wake of a complaint about his behavior and what one United States government report termed “cowboy practices.” Investigators later learned he was also under financial and family strains. United States investigators concluded that he had committed suicide. But Indonesian investigators ruled out that explanation.

I totally forgot about this incident...but knowing that it's not the first time this has happened makes it even scarier! :nailbite:

OT: related to MI185 tragedy, there was no conclusion on the cause of it.

]]>https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/1492351https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/1492351Sun, 19 Apr 2015 07:41:04 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Germanwings Flight GWI18G Crash on Sun, 19 Apr 2015 07:26:44 GMT]]>

pirated:
Lufthansa betrayed customers' faith in the rigour of their flight safety


http://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/19/world ... .html?_r=0
Mentioned in the article:

In 1997, a SilkAir Boeing 737 crashed in Indonesia, killing all 104 people aboard. The pilot had recently been demoted in the wake of a complaint about his behavior and what one United States government report termed “cowboy practices.” Investigators later learned he was also under financial and family strains. United States investigators concluded that he had committed suicide. But Indonesian investigators ruled out that explanation.

I totally forgot about this incident...but knowing that it's not the first time this has happened makes it even scarier! :nailbite:

]]>https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/1492342https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/1492342Sun, 19 Apr 2015 07:26:44 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Germanwings Flight GWI18G Crash on Sat, 18 Apr 2015 14:59:58 GMT]]>Lufthansa betrayed customers' faith in the rigour of their flight safety


http://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/19/world ... .html?_r=0

]]>https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/1492074https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/1492074Sat, 18 Apr 2015 14:59:58 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Germanwings Flight GWI18G Crash on Mon, 13 Apr 2015 23:41:46 GMT]]>http://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/sin ... 81640.html

most of the airlines implemented new rule of having 2 persons in the cockpit at all times...that means pilot, co-pilot and another person.

just curious, if a pilot or the co-pilot is unwell mentally, he doesn't show it outwardly. 🦆

]]>https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/1489252https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/1489252Mon, 13 Apr 2015 23:41:46 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Germanwings Flight GWI18G Crash on Fri, 27 Mar 2015 09:25:53 GMT]]>The co-pilot who crashed the plane with 149 passengers had relationship problems. The whole plane of passengers had to die because of that? This is so unfair.

]]>https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/1482523https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/1482523Fri, 27 Mar 2015 09:25:53 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Germanwings Flight GWI18G Crash on Fri, 27 Mar 2015 01:21:43 GMT]]>

atrecord:
Now this really does make flying a whole lot scarier than it already is.


As if it's not bad enough to have to hope/pray/have faith that the plane is maintained properly and there's no serious/crucial mechanical/engine/electrical/technical problems, plus that among the passengers there's no terrorist planning to highjack the plane - now we have to grapple with psycho (co-)pilots who might bring the whole plane down… and nobody/nothing seems to be able to stop him.
Supposing this plane had been well maintained with no signs of any abnormal sounds and experienced pilot manning it, this tragedy is really very sad. Flying is getting scarier. The whole plane of passengers died just like that :nailbite: the co-pilot is sick :slapshead:

]]>https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/1482321https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/1482321Fri, 27 Mar 2015 01:21:43 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Germanwings Flight GWI18G Crash on Fri, 27 Mar 2015 01:10:25 GMT]]>Now this really does make flying a whole lot scarier than it already is.


As if it’s not bad enough to have to hope/pray/have faith that the plane is maintained properly and there’s no serious/crucial mechanical/engine/electrical/technical problems, plus that among the passengers there’s no terrorist planning to highjack the plane - now we have to grapple with psycho (co-)pilots who might bring the whole plane down… and nobody/nothing seems to be able to stop him.

If the reports/findings so far are true, then the silver lining is that the captain went to the toilet when the plane was over the alps. It would be a lot worse (it’s already tragic as it is) if the plane was flying over Paris or other major cities, and the co-pilot could have engineered another WTC of 9-11…

]]>https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/1482312https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/1482312Fri, 27 Mar 2015 01:10:25 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Germanwings Flight GWI18G Crash on Fri, 27 Mar 2015 00:16:42 GMT]]>what was supposed to protect terrorists from entering the cockpit became a weapon against the pilot if he was locked out.

The A320 is designed with safeguards to allow emergency entry into the cockpit if a pilot inside is unresponsive. But the override code known to the crew does not go into effect if the person inside the cockpit specifically denies entry.

the passengers must have suffered mental torture just before their deaths. :sad:
Just before the plane hit the mountain, passengers' cries of terror could be heard.

\"The victims realized just at the last moment,\" Robin said. \"We can hear them screaming.\"

]]>https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/1482261https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/1482261Fri, 27 Mar 2015 00:16:42 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Germanwings Flight GWI18G Crash on Thu, 26 Mar 2015 13:24:38 GMT]]>

starlight1968sg:
4U9525 CRASH: Co-pilot wanted to ‘destroy’ plane: prosecutor

http://www.nst.com.my/node/78313
that rogue locked the pilot out of the cockpit and literally sent everyone crashing into the ground. scariest part is the passengers didn't know until the end :sick:
the pilot outside was trying to smash the door down.

]]>https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/1482149https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/1482149Thu, 26 Mar 2015 13:24:38 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Germanwings Flight GWI18G Crash on Thu, 26 Mar 2015 13:20:25 GMT]]>4U9525 CRASH: Co-pilot wanted to ‘destroy’ plane: prosecutor

http://www.nst.com.my/node/78313

]]>https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/1482143https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/1482143Thu, 26 Mar 2015 13:20:25 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Germanwings Flight GWI18G Crash on Thu, 26 Mar 2015 13:15:00 GMT]]>reading this article makes my hair stand.

http://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/wor ... 44254.html

Investigators say that once the co-pilot locked himself in, he never talked again. After he sent the plane into its fatal last dive, ground control repeatedly tried make contact and the co-pilot did not answer if there are no known terrorist links, then the co-pilot wanted the whole plane of passengers to die with him? :nailbite:

]]>https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/1482141https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/1482141Thu, 26 Mar 2015 13:15:00 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Germanwings Flight GWI18G Crash on Thu, 26 Mar 2015 12:06:52 GMT]]>I wonder how they know there was only 1 pilot in the cockpit through the voice recorder. I mean, if the other pilot kept quiet, how would they know? The mystery deepens.

]]>https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/1482117https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/1482117Thu, 26 Mar 2015 12:06:52 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Germanwings Flight GWI18G Crash on Thu, 26 Mar 2015 09:44:42 GMT]]>

floppy:
atrecord:

[quote=\"jetsetter\"]
How? Surely there is no way cockpit door cld be unlocked from outside? Terrorists can unlock from outside too?

Yes, it would be most strange if it can be easily unlocked from the outside. The cockpit is supposed to be safe and secured, so that the pilots are not easily attacked and threatened by others (the 'bad people').

It's an Airbus. The method to unlock the door is called \"key in the pin number\".

Until we hear some official words, or at least from official named sources, everything is just speculation at the moment.[/quote]I see... ok, so it's PIN-controlled.

From the reports available now, prelim findings are that one person (not sure who) left the cockpit, then when wanting to go back in later, knocked the door lightly initially, no answer, then knocked loudly, the same; finally wanting to break the door, still couldn't get in... continued till plane crashed after descending...

whoever trying to get back in should know the PIN. Could it have been changed from the inside?

I was thinking if mechanical lock, the pilot inside could have maybe had a heart attack and lost consciousness, and the one outside couldn't get in... but if PIN then this is not likely...

Anyway, better not speculate. Wait for more official details...

]]>https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/1482070https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/1482070Thu, 26 Mar 2015 09:44:42 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Germanwings Flight GWI18G Crash on Thu, 26 Mar 2015 07:38:36 GMT]]>

atrecord:
jetsetter:


How? Surely there is no way cockpit door cld be unlocked from outside? Terrorists can unlock from outside too?

Yes, it would be most strange if it can be easily unlocked from the outside. The cockpit is supposed to be safe and secured, so that the pilots are not easily attacked and threatened by others (the 'bad people').

It's an Airbus. The method to unlock the door is called \"key in the pin number\".

Until we hear some official words, or at least from official named sources, everything is just speculation at the moment.

]]>https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/1482000https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/1482000Thu, 26 Mar 2015 07:38:36 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Germanwings Flight GWI18G Crash on Thu, 26 Mar 2015 07:05:58 GMT]]>

jetsetter:
floppy:

[quote=\"jetsetter\"]Disturbing. Co-pilot inside?


Assuming the official's account is true, the one being locked out can still easily unlock from the outside.

How? Surely there is no way cockpit door cld be unlocked from outside? Terrorists can unlock from outside too?[/quote]Yes, it would be most strange if it can be easily unlocked from the outside. The cockpit is supposed to be safe and secured, so that the pilots are not easily attacked and threatened by others (the 'bad people').

The danger is of course if the door is locked, and the 'bad people' are inside the cockpit. If that is the case for this plane, then it raises serious questions about flight safety.

How to ensure everyone in the cockpit (pilots, co-pilots, navigators, etc.) are all 'good people', and how to ensure that the goods are not locked out, and the 'bad people' do not gain access?

Scary…

]]>https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/1481987https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/1481987Thu, 26 Mar 2015 07:05:58 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Germanwings Flight GWI18G Crash on Thu, 26 Mar 2015 06:56:32 GMT]]>

floppy:
jetsetter:

Disturbing. Co-pilot inside?


Assuming the official's account is true, the one being locked out can still easily unlock from the outside.

How? Surely there is no way cockpit door cld be unlocked from outside? Terrorists can unlock from outside too?

]]>https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/1481982https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/1481982Thu, 26 Mar 2015 06:56:32 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Germanwings Flight GWI18G Crash on Thu, 26 Mar 2015 06:53:21 GMT]]>

floppy:
jetsetter:

Disturbing. Co-pilot inside?


Assuming the official's account is true, the one being locked out can still easily unlock from the outside.

The report in the video mentioned the pilot outside made attempts to even knock down the cockpit door so it did not seem to be a case of accidental lock-out from the report in the video.

There are puzzling points that seem to suggest unauthorised ppl might have gotten into the cockpit as the descend was also unauthorised.

Hmm... I hope there is no terrorist in operation, randomly taking down planes to create scares.

]]>https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/1481981https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/1481981Thu, 26 Mar 2015 06:53:21 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Germanwings Flight GWI18G Crash on Thu, 26 Mar 2015 06:37:04 GMT]]>

jetsetter:
Disturbing. Co-pilot inside?

Assuming the official's account is true, the one being locked out can still easily unlock from the outside.

]]>https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/1481973https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/1481973Thu, 26 Mar 2015 06:37:04 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Germanwings Flight GWI18G Crash on Thu, 26 Mar 2015 06:31:08 GMT]]>Disturbing. Co-pilot inside?

]]>https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/1481971https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/1481971Thu, 26 Mar 2015 06:31:08 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Germanwings Flight GWI18G Crash on Thu, 26 Mar 2015 06:19:12 GMT]]>

Nebbermind:
http://www.smh.com.au/world/germanwings-plane-crash-pilot-locked-out-of-cockpit-20150326-1m7w5g.html

[quote]Paris: As officials struggled to explain why a jet with 150 people on board crashed in relatively clear skies, an investigator said evidence from a cockpit voice recorder indicated one pilot left the cockpit before the plane's descent and was unable to get back in.
[/quote]I love all these media reports quoting unnamed officials, secret sources, etc.

]]>https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/1481966https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/1481966Thu, 26 Mar 2015 06:19:12 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Germanwings Flight GWI18G Crash on Thu, 26 Mar 2015 06:10:10 GMT]]>http://www.smh.com.au/world/germanwings-plane-crash-pilot-locked-out-of-cockpit-20150326-1m7w5g.html

[quote]Paris: As officials struggled to explain why a jet with 150 people on board crashed in relatively clear skies, an investigator said evidence from a cockpit voice recorder indicated one pilot left the cockpit before the plane's descent and was unable to get back in.[/quote]

]]>https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/1481961https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/1481961Thu, 26 Mar 2015 06:10:10 GMT