<![CDATA[Compulsory Overseas Trip]]>Hi


Would you permit your child to go on such trips?

Most school imply that is a Compulsory programme for all pupils, and yet they want ask to sign the Letter of Consent and Indemnity form. Thus, do we have the right to disagree?

What’s your opinion on this?

]]>https://forum.kiasuparents.com/topic/8290/compulsory-overseas-tripRSS for NodeSun, 19 Apr 2026 20:27:57 GMTSat, 16 Jan 2010 01:08:21 GMT60<![CDATA[Reply to Compulsory Overseas Trip on Sat, 20 Feb 2010 06:56:28 GMT]]>

ks2me:
csc:

[quote]Not all children are ready at the same pace so we should try to use lesser of our yardstick but listen clearly to the cries of compulsion enforced when people are not ready


Sometimes, the children are actually ready. The parents are the ones who are not ready emotionally and mentally and this led them to think that their children are not ready too.

:lol:

True buddy but......
actually if we go granular, this is considered not ready. We do not exist alone and there should be some give and take within the family. Of course if parents 'imprison' the child for prolonged period then this is deemed abnormal. As long as done within reasonableness I would give parents the leeway to make their own judgement call.[/quote]“Every mother is like Moses. She does not enter the promised land. She prepares a world she will not see.”- Pope Paul VI

“A mother is she who can take the place of all others but whose place no one else can take.” - Cardinal Mermillod

😄

]]>https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/126757https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/126757Sat, 20 Feb 2010 06:56:28 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Compulsory Overseas Trip on Sat, 20 Feb 2010 05:43:42 GMT]]>

csc:
[quote]Not all children are ready at the same pace so we should try to use lesser of our yardstick but listen clearly to the cries of compulsion enforced when people are not ready

Sometimes, the children are actually ready. The parents are the ones who are not ready emotionally and mentally and this led them to think that their children are not ready too.

:lol:[/quote]True buddy but......
actually if we go granular, this is considered not ready. We do not exist alone and there should be some give and take within the family. Of course if parents 'imprison' the child for prolonged period then this is deemed abnormal. As long as done within reasonableness I would give parents the leeway to make their own judgement call.

]]>https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/126739https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/126739Sat, 20 Feb 2010 05:43:42 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Compulsory Overseas Trip on Sat, 20 Feb 2010 04:59:45 GMT]]>[quote]Not all children are ready at the same pace so we should try to use lesser of our yardstick but listen clearly to the cries of compulsion enforced when people are not ready[/quote]
Sometimes, the children are actually ready. The parents are the ones who are not ready emotionally and mentally and this led them to think that their children are not ready too.

:lol:

]]>https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/126733https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/126733Sat, 20 Feb 2010 04:59:45 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Compulsory Overseas Trip on Sat, 20 Feb 2010 04:08:54 GMT]]>I am with nani in this matter as I know how compulsory some schools can make things. I do hope she has a place to air her feedback that trips should be made optional. I am not sure if moe advocate that, my gutfeel is school chooses to be so so that the trip can happen. Without the numbers they may not get subsidy approval or the trip cannot happen. All these are logistics issues to me and parents should not be made to feel obliged to let the little ones fly out of the nest when they are not ready. And all these talk about doing anything also have danger is really unnecessary because who does not know that. Not all children are ready at the same pace so we should try to use lesser of our yardstick but listen clearly to the cries of compulsion enforced when people are not ready. Also, I don't think we should pounce on homeschooling just because there is a flaw in the system. Did we go to school to learn compliance or negotiation? My benefit was the latter. I give credit to a SG education despite it being very stressful at times.


Nani, constructively I would check with a few mums of the cohort and request a meeting w the p to sound the concern. The objective is really to make him or her understand that it is not appropriate to make such trips compulsory. Over here, the age group of children are diverse and even if there is agreement, there is little impact on your school if your school p refuses. I hv recently walked into my p's office to clarify something and at least I see a clear circular being issued now.

Hope this helps.

Today is everybody's birthday, wishing all a happy birthday! 🙂

]]>https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/126725https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/126725Sat, 20 Feb 2010 04:08:54 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Compulsory Overseas Trip on Sat, 20 Feb 2010 01:52:43 GMT]]>

daisyt:
Agree with mrswongtution, its not an easy task for the teachers. Don't talk about overseas, I have a teacher friend, already feel so stress up when bringing the kids to NDP. After they reach school, the teachers cannot leave the school until all parents picked up the children. By the time she left school, its about midnight. The most ridiculous thing she told me was, one parent, actually forgot had to pick up the child at a certain time. When she called the parent, she was sleeping. :shock: If its not she told me, I won't believe such story lor. :lol: :!:


Anyway, I am not against such system. So far, I have not come across any compulsory camps or trips for my dd. The schools would leave it to the parents to decide. 😄
Lucky you 😉

]]>https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/126700https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/126700Sat, 20 Feb 2010 01:52:43 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Compulsory Overseas Trip on Sat, 20 Feb 2010 01:48:33 GMT]]>

mrswongtuition:
[quote]Problem with planning service learning locally:Parents feel that it's a waste of time and that their kids should be home studying instead.


Honestly, I have parents who write in to give all sorts of excuses so their kids don't have to do CIP. When I ask the kids what they did at home while we went, they said their parents forced them to study.
May I ask have school or MOE ever done a survey on whether to service locally or overseas? Why would parents feel a waste of time doing service locally? Are these the same set of parents that are willing to sent their kids overseas, paying for it, risk them and yet not thinking is a waste of time?
[quote]No matter what MOE does, there'll definitely be ppl who are upset/angry with the system or disagree with it. There's never a policy that will please everyone.[/quote]Yes, is true. Hence for overseas trips it should be done optional and not complusory. Just a reminder, I started this thread saying is COMPLUSORY overseas trips, and I really mean complusory not even strongly encourage nor optional. FYI, there are schools that enforce trips unless due to medical reasons.
[quote]Can you guarantee that nothing will happen to your child on a family holiday, locally or overseas?
Can you guarantee that nothing will happen to your child even if you are at home the entire day?[/quote]No one can!! Only GOD's knows. If he would want to take his child back anytime, no one can stop him. But as far as I'm concern when God's entrusted me with this lovely gift, I'm to give my ulmost protection, and not leave her to someoneelse hands.

Yes is really frustrating having to rant and stick with the system cos taking my child out of the school is out of the question as I would admit that I'm academically incapable. Hence, writing here is to hear views on how parents in our society has create this competitive stress and hope MOE or school or even teacher's like you can give feedback to the system[/quote]Thank you.

]]>https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/126699https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/126699Sat, 20 Feb 2010 01:48:33 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Compulsory Overseas Trip on Fri, 19 Feb 2010 06:30:19 GMT]]>Agree with mrswongtution, its not an easy task for the teachers. Don't talk about overseas, I have a teacher friend, already feel so stress up when bringing the kids to NDP. After they reach school, the teachers cannot leave the school until all parents picked up the children. By the time she left school, its about midnight. The most ridiculous thing she told me was, one parent, actually forgot had to pick up the child at a certain time. When she called the parent, she was sleeping. :shock: If its not she told me, I won't believe such story lor. :lol: :!:


Anyway, I am not against such system. So far, I have not come across any compulsory camps or trips for my dd. The schools would leave it to the parents to decide. 😄

]]>https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/126222https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/126222Fri, 19 Feb 2010 06:30:19 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Compulsory Overseas Trip on Fri, 19 Feb 2010 06:21:29 GMT]]>

mrswongtuition:
Teachers also love the kids and don't want anything bad to happen. We do put in alot of effort into ensuring their safety. If we have to report every move to the parents, it'll be extra work and we won't be able to totally focus on preparing for the trip and keeping the kids safe.

mrswongtuition, thanks to teachers like yourself, our children have the opportunities to attend many interesting and enriching activities and programmes both locally and overseas. Just want to let you know not everyone disagrees with the system. We really appreicate the effort from the schools, especially the teachers. Our kids feel grateful to their teachers too. We are glad that they enjoy their school lives even though it can be demanding.

]]>https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/126210https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/126210Fri, 19 Feb 2010 06:21:29 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Compulsory Overseas Trip on Fri, 19 Feb 2010 04:02:23 GMT]]>

nani:
daisyt:

hi nani, for my case, the school is paying everything. However, to me, its not about who is paying. My main concern is safety in Jakarta. I am thinking if the school would want the parents to sign any Letter of Indemnity for such trips. :?


Not sure if you are talking about complusory here. Reading on the negatives of safety and street kids in Jakarta already turn me off from visiting relatives there, dont even talk about school doing service trip there :shock: .

Again, I just dont understand what are the school objectives by sending our kids to 3rd world countries for service?? If is just to let them know how fortunate they are, I would rather they make it complusory for all schools to service the orphange here or even schedule schools to help with distributing food from the heart, etc. SERVICE can be found and start within our own country, need not make us PAY and risk our kids overseas!!

Just my 2 cents.

Problem with planning service learning locally:
Parents feel that it's a waste of time and that their kids should be home studying instead.

Honestly, I have parents who write in to give all sorts of excuses so their kids don't have to do CIP. When I ask the kids what they did at home while we went, they said their parents forced them to study.

No matter what MOE does, there'll definitely be ppl who are upset/angry with the system or disagree with it. There's never a policy that will please everyone.

If this overseas trip thing is really bugging you and your family and the school is totally not supportive in assuring you, then it might be best to homeschool your child instead of having to 'live through' the system.

Teachers also love the kids and don't want anything bad to happen. We do put in alot of effort into ensuring their safety. If we have to report every move to the parents, it'll be extra work and we won't be able to totally focus on preparing for the trip and keeping the kids safe.

Can you guarantee that nothing will happen to your child on a family holiday, locally or overseas?
Can you guarantee that nothing will happen to your child even if you are at home the entire day?

If you really can't get over this issue, then take your child out of the system and homeschool. With homeschooling, you can 'control' the environment, the learning content and the learning experience. Maybe that will save you the frustration 🙂

Sometimes thinking about it too much just makes us feel more frustrated and cloud our judgement and objectiveness (just like how I keep thinking if I've chosen the right pre-school for my boy). Take a break and not read this thread for a while then slowly think through about it. Being in the system means you need to accept policies and plan around it. If really can't accept then no point making you and your child frustrated. Just find alternatives and move out of the system.

]]>https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/126134https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/126134Fri, 19 Feb 2010 04:02:23 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Compulsory Overseas Trip on Thu, 18 Feb 2010 13:58:23 GMT]]>

ks2me:

I used to be irked by my dad waiting for me at the void deck, but my brother made a valid point to me that changed my mind. He told me that it would only take one accident to destroy you. So I appreciated dad's effort instead.
Yes, fully agree. 😄

]]>https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/125841https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/125841Thu, 18 Feb 2010 13:58:23 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Compulsory Overseas Trip on Thu, 18 Feb 2010 11:49:04 GMT]]>

daisyt:
csc:


But again, what is considered risk is subjective.

Yap ! Agree ! Risk measurement is very subjective and individual. I remember all my friends (except one) told me its too risky to choose IP schools, not taking \"O\" level but we went ahead to to take this \"risk\" 😄 :lol: Sorry ... OT ... 😉

Academic risks is never detrimental because you are still learning even if the route is wrong.

There is another thing called risk exposure, the more you expose yourself to risk, your exposure increases which means probability goes up.

This is a personal view, children(in primary level) should be children....and they will always have the limitation of physical size when in trouble, like it or not, even if the brain size is larger than the adults.

I used to be irked by my dad waiting for me at the void deck, but my brother made a valid point to me that changed my mind. He told me that it would only take one accident to destroy you. So I appreciated dad's effort instead.

]]>https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/125792https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/125792Thu, 18 Feb 2010 11:49:04 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Compulsory Overseas Trip on Thu, 18 Feb 2010 03:36:18 GMT]]>

csc:

But again, what is considered risk is subjective.
Yap ! Agree ! Risk measurement is very subjective and individual. I remember all my friends (except one) told me its too risky to choose IP schools, not taking \"O\" level but we went ahead to to take this \"risk\" 😄 :lol: Sorry ... OT ... 😉

]]>https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/125479https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/125479Thu, 18 Feb 2010 03:36:18 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Compulsory Overseas Trip on Thu, 18 Feb 2010 03:26:55 GMT]]>Actually hor, washing cups and bowls, bringing cups and plates to sink, making beds have nothing to do with independence - at least in my opinion.


They are responsiblities expected of family members living within the same household.

The children in my household are expected to do that - nothing to do with inculcating independence. In other words, compulsory activities at home and even at grandma's home. :lol:

]]>https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/125475https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/125475Thu, 18 Feb 2010 03:26:55 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Compulsory Overseas Trip on Thu, 18 Feb 2010 03:24:09 GMT]]>

csc:
Talking about risks, I don't think any school will send their students abroad to a country deemed to be in a risky and dangerous situation. The school must have measured the risk factors involved and maybe get the necessary approval from MOE before going ahead with the trip.


Schools are also accountable to the parents and MOE for their actions as well. I doubt they will subject themselves to unnecessary risks. I understand that many overseas trips were cancelled due to H1N1 last year.

But again, what is considered risk is subjective.

A friend of mine thinks that climbing Mount Ophir is very risky after hearing about incidents of people being killed by a falling branch on that track. She won't even climb Bukit Timah Hill for fear of falling branches.

Of course, we should never be rash but I believe our destiny and lives are in God's hands. There is no prevention if it were meant to happen.
Well said, agree wholeheartedly! :salute: :rahrah:

]]>https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/125473https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/125473Thu, 18 Feb 2010 03:24:09 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Compulsory Overseas Trip on Thu, 18 Feb 2010 03:19:08 GMT]]>Talking about risks, I don’t think any school will send their students abroad to a country deemed to be in a risky and dangerous situation. The school must have measured the risk factors involved and maybe get the necessary approval from MOE before going ahead with the trip.


Schools are also accountable to the parents and MOE for their actions as well. I doubt they will subject themselves to unnecessary risks. I understand that many overseas trips were cancelled due to H1N1 last year.

But again, what is considered risk is subjective.

A friend of mine thinks that climbing Mount Ophir is very risky after hearing about incidents of people being killed by a falling branch on that track. She won’t even climb Bukit Timah Hill for fear of falling branches.

Of course, we should never be rash but I believe our destiny and lives are in God’s hands. There is no prevention if it were meant to happen.

]]>https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/125471https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/125471Thu, 18 Feb 2010 03:19:08 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Compulsory Overseas Trip on Thu, 18 Feb 2010 03:03:41 GMT]]>

nani:
Not sure if you are talking about complusory here. Reading on the negatives of safety and street kids in Jakarta already turn me off from visiting relatives there, dont even talk about school doing service trip there :shock: .


Again, I just dont understand what are the school objectives by sending our kids to 3rd world countries for service?? If is just to let them know how fortunate they are, I would rather they make it complusory for all schools to service the orphange here or even schedule schools to help with distributing food from the heart, etc. SERVICE can be found and start within our own country, need not make us PAY and risk our kids overseas!!

Just my 2 cents.
Nani, its not compulsory for my case here, but they are highly encouraged. My point of view in this case is, if I need to sign a letter of indemnity, I am taking the risk. Then I would need to consider, if I want to take this risk and is it worth to take the risk for this purpose. In life, there are always many risks we have to take or want to take because we feel it is worth it. Eg. changing job, taking an exciting coaster ride, going tough hiking like csc and ks2me mentioned. I know of some peoples who feel that marriage or having children is a kind of risk taking and they do not want to take this risk. Back to my case here, going to a place I feel is not safe, for this objective, I think its not worth to take the risk and hence do not want to take the risk.

Normally, we ourselves don't feel the pinch when we decide to take up a risk. It is always our love ones would feel it more than us. 😉

And thanks summer for sharing your niece's case here. :celebrate:

]]>https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/125460https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/125460Thu, 18 Feb 2010 03:03:41 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Compulsory Overseas Trip on Thu, 18 Feb 2010 03:02:32 GMT]]>KS2me :celebrate: :snuggles: I couldn't agree more with your post. From the nitelife experience to the f&e trips to WE actually training our kids at home inorder to PREPARE them for the so called learning \"independence\" trips. All boils them to brining up...


Wish we have a easier way to say \"NO\" and not having to argue/challange our kids for things that are not within our control :idea:

]]>https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/125459https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/125459Thu, 18 Feb 2010 03:02:32 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Compulsory Overseas Trip on Thu, 18 Feb 2010 02:49:17 GMT]]>😄

]]>https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/125444https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/125444Thu, 18 Feb 2010 02:49:17 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Compulsory Overseas Trip on Thu, 18 Feb 2010 02:40:19 GMT]]>

csc:

In primary schools, I don't think the overnight camps and even the NDP parades are compulsory - I know of a few friends' primary school kids who opted out of the camps or simply, by producing a medical certificate, exempted them from attending the camps.
Sounds like a good tip. 😉 I know they usually send the kids to Labrador Park(not even school compounds!) for the P5 camps and heard that NDP currently is compulsory in our school.
csc:
As for me, I did not get to attend any overnight camp till my university days. I remember , watching with sadness, as I saw my classmates leaving for their ST John's Island Camp in Sec 3. My over-protective parents had refused to give their consent. I remembered arguing with them over the matter.
I felt even more left-out when my classmates kept talking about the camps for days even when it was over.
We often feel we miss something when we don't get ourselves involved. I have reviewed my life over the years and I hardly feel that I am short of anything including experience. For example I will never argue with my parents to go for midnight shows nor disco and I still get to go eventually at an older age and never missed it too. However, at secondary level, most likely I will permit the experience of camping in school for my child.
Parents will always worry, it is a built-in function. Up to working days, my dad would still wait for me at the void deck to get home for those late nights.
csc:
Maybe, that's why I'm pretty liberating in this aspect of allowing and even encouraging my kids to go for these trips even at a tender age of primary 4.Maybe, it has to do with my character as well. I backpacked and love rugged and adventurous trips and hope to pass on that spirit to my next generation. Actually, we have already developed the same liking.
My character is also adventurous and I have done strange things. However, I did all these things when I was old enough to make decisions for myself. I hiked Grand Canyon to the Colorado River in the coldest winter in USA then, I also sped at 200+km(legally) in Europe before. I have been on more F&E trips than guided tour so I believe my child who goes on such trips with us learn the ropes. Children indeed should learn but should be under a safe environment until they are old enough to fend for themselves. I feel sometimes we are trying to make them do too many things too soon. If given the time, I rather the children spend it on reading and day community service in Singapore.
csc:
Age appropriateness is subjective, I guess, for individual children.
That is true. However, when they conduct mass programme they have to use the bell curve as the benchmark, not the exceptions. Actually the children are supposedly receiving training at home to make them ready for certain independence but in everything we try to accelerate for them....EVERYTHING.... :faint:
csc:
Anyway, to each his own. :celebrate:
[/quote]

I also agree but the schools not thinking this way leh..... *sigh*
:celebrate: to you. Appreciate your patience to share the benefits of such programmes.

]]>https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/125434https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/125434Thu, 18 Feb 2010 02:40:19 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Compulsory Overseas Trip on Thu, 18 Feb 2010 02:34:07 GMT]]>[quote]she would like to help other people again if given the chance. [/quote]
Was wondering, your niece really sincerely want to help other ppl or isnt the overseas experience that was fun & make her grow up?

My take is that helping other ppl don't need to be confine to just overseas, there are many ways to help even within our own country. I'm not directing this to you or your sis, but it just boils me to hear parents bragging about their kids going \"OVERSEAS\" to help people!! But when in Singapore, they dont even give a heck to the poor or even send their parents to old folks home!!
[quote]Such invaluable experience is an eye opener for them and is good for them since they grow up in very sheltered and comfortable environment. [/quote]Not sure how sheltered you niece is. But am sure if parents here can bring up and inculcate more self dependent, for eg. washing their own cups and bring their own cups to the sink, making their own bed, or even cooking their own simple meal if need, etc..instead of relying on maids, I think the kids are already consider self-dependent.

]]>https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/125425https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/125425Thu, 18 Feb 2010 02:34:07 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Compulsory Overseas Trip on Thu, 18 Feb 2010 02:08:09 GMT]]>😄

]]>https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/125412https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/125412Thu, 18 Feb 2010 02:08:09 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Compulsory Overseas Trip on Thu, 18 Feb 2010 02:07:45 GMT]]>

daisyt:
hi nani, for my case, the school is paying everything. However, to me, its not about who is paying. My main concern is safety in Jakarta. I am thinking if the school would want the parents to sign any Letter of Indemnity for such trips. :?

Not sure if you are talking about complusory here. Reading on the negatives of safety and street kids in Jakarta already turn me off from visiting relatives there, dont even talk about school doing service trip there :shock: .

Again, I just dont understand what are the school objectives by sending our kids to 3rd world countries for service?? If is just to let them know how fortunate they are, I would rather they make it complusory for all schools to service the orphange here or even schedule schools to help with distributing food from the heart, etc. SERVICE can be found and start within our own country, need not make us PAY and risk our kids overseas!!

Just my 2 cents.

]]>https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/125411https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/125411Thu, 18 Feb 2010 02:07:45 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Compulsory Overseas Trip on Thu, 18 Feb 2010 02:03:50 GMT]]>😄

]]>https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/125406https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/125406Thu, 18 Feb 2010 02:03:50 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Compulsory Overseas Trip on Thu, 18 Feb 2010 01:00:02 GMT]]>My comments are made purely based on nani's case - and in general , referring to secondary schools.


In primary schools, I don't think the overnight camps and even the NDP parades are compulsory - I know of a few friends' primary school kids who opted out of the camps or simply, by producing a medical certificate, exempted them from attending the camps.

As for me, I did not get to attend any overnight camp till my university days. I remember , watching with sadness, as I saw my classmates leaving for their ST John's Island Camp in Sec 3. My over-protective parents had refused to give their consent. I remembered arguing with them over the matter.
I felt even more left-out when my classmates kept talking about the camps for days even when it was over.

Maybe, that's why I'm pretty liberating in this aspect of allowing and even encouraging my kids to go for these trips even at a tender age of primary 4.Maybe, it has to do with my character as well. I backpacked and love rugged and adventurous trips and hope to pass on that spirit to my next generation. Actually, we have already developed the same liking.

Age appropriateness is subjective, I guess, for individual children.

Anyway, to each his own. :celebrate:

]]>https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/125349https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/125349Thu, 18 Feb 2010 01:00:02 GMT