<![CDATA[Police investigating 'unnatural death' of 14-year-old boy]]>19th May 2016 The Straits Times, page A8 has the day 2 inquiry report.

]]>https://forum.kiasuparents.com/topic/85365/police-investigating-unnatural-death-of-14-year-old-boyRSS for NodeSat, 25 Apr 2026 00:17:09 GMTSun, 22 May 2016 03:24:02 GMT60<![CDATA[Reply to Police investigating 'unnatural death' of 14-year-old boy on Sun, 22 May 2016 02:56:04 GMT]]>http://i68.tinypic.com/15r1co6.jpg\">


A full page report on the inquiry reported in the Straits Times on 18th May 2016.

]]>https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/1682423https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/1682423Sun, 22 May 2016 02:56:04 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Police investigating 'unnatural death' of 14-year-old boy on Wed, 09 Mar 2016 13:11:27 GMT]]>

stetan:

\"One shoe fits all\" approach for both adults and minors?
To be honest, I have not handled juvenile offenders before.

Based on the cases that were received by my ex-employer, (it's been a while but) my gut feel is that approximately 1/3 to 1/2 of the cases, we couldn't prosecute. So there is a lot of unhappy complainants who think that we are pretty ineffective.

]]>https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/1653785https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/1653785Wed, 09 Mar 2016 13:11:27 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Police investigating 'unnatural death' of 14-year-old boy on Wed, 09 Mar 2016 12:22:10 GMT]]>

Irrelevant:
jetsetter:

Good that you've done IO work before. Btw, would you and fellow IOs question the interviewees in matter-of-factly tone, in a chronological order you were trained to, or question as gently as would a nurse to a patient? :evil: I believe IOs' preference is to extract firsthand, virgin, untainted statement out when the accused hasn't met with anyone else yet, right?


Matter of fact tone. I have raised my voice before, because accused gave cock and bull story.

\"One shoe fits all\" approach for both adults and minors?

]]>https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/1653763https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/1653763Wed, 09 Mar 2016 12:22:10 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Police investigating 'unnatural death' of 14-year-old boy on Wed, 09 Mar 2016 09:37:29 GMT]]>

jetsetter:
Good that you've done IO work before. Btw, would you and fellow IOs question the interviewees in matter-of-factly tone, in a chronological order you were trained to, or question as gently as would a nurse to a patient? :evil: I believe IOs' preference is to extract firsthand, virgin, untainted statement out when the accused hasn't met with anyone else yet, right?

Matter of fact tone. I have raised my voice before, because accused gave cock and bull story. The risk is always that if the accused is fully prepared, evidence would have been disturbed/destroyed. As one might know, an accused's statement is normally not used directly in court as evidence to prove guilt.

Any measure introduced to \"protect/enhance\" the rights of an accused would naturally shift the balance in the accused's favour. As the burden of proof is high (beyond reasonable doubt), many cases that I know are closed due to a lack of evidence, good evidence.

]]>https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/1653675https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/1653675Wed, 09 Mar 2016 09:37:29 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Police investigating 'unnatural death' of 14-year-old boy on Wed, 09 Mar 2016 08:07:33 GMT]]>

CatMoon:
For the police to review their process when it comes to children.

Regardless of whether it necessarily results in any major change, a review of process and procedure now and then cannot be a bad thing.

]]>https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/1653634https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/1653634Wed, 09 Mar 2016 08:07:33 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Police investigating 'unnatural death' of 14-year-old boy on Wed, 09 Mar 2016 07:06:01 GMT]]>

limlim:
CatMoon:

[quote=\"Irrelevant\"]Is this thread all about protecting the innocent or defending the rights of the guilty? 🤷


This thread is all about protecting our children first.

How would you want to protect your children?

By helping to shape a safe and lawful society, and deter the youth from crimes, or to condone their wrong doings?[/quote]For the police to review their process when it comes to children.

]]>https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/1653611https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/1653611Wed, 09 Mar 2016 07:06:01 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Police investigating 'unnatural death' of 14-year-old boy on Wed, 09 Mar 2016 05:07:11 GMT]]>

CatMoon:
Irrelevant:

Is this thread all about protecting the innocent or defending the rights of the guilty? 🤷


This thread is all about protecting our children first.

How would you want to protect your children?

By helping to shape a safe and lawful society, and deter the youth from crimes, or to condone their wrong doings?

]]>https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/1653540https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/1653540Wed, 09 Mar 2016 05:07:11 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Police investigating 'unnatural death' of 14-year-old boy on Wed, 09 Mar 2016 04:42:50 GMT]]>

jetsetter:
In fact, not just being there during the interview. They \"have proposed a one hour private meeting between accused/suspect and lawyer before any statements are taken\". I believe this critical window enables the lawyer to understand better of the case, per whatever prima facie evidence the police holds at that pt in time, to suss out (oft-omitted in one's panic) more vital info from the client thru effective questioning techniques (lawyers frame questions in a diff way from IO), and guide him how to substantiate with perhaps some mitigating factors that he might have forgotten himself during the arrest, as well as to present his oral answers in a truthful and coherent manner. And lastly, manage the accused's expectations on various types of guidance prog he might face moving forward if proven guilty.

I am not sure this is a good idea. From my experience, most incriminating statements were made not because of undue pressure from the IO, but because the accused/suspect did not know that what he did actually constituted the offence.

For example, in drug trafficking cases, a suspect would admit that the drugs found were his (usually a bit difficult to deny because it was found on him). He would then try to explain why he had so much drugs by saying that he did not intend to sell it, but was going to share it with his girlfriend, without realizing that sharing or even giving the drug to somebody else would constitute the offence of trafficking.

If a suspect is advised on the ingredients of an offence, it would allow him to lie better.

I don't see the need for a hour of private meeting with the lawyer if all the lawyer is going to advise him is to tell the truth, that if he does not disclose his defence as early as possible it may not be believed at the trial, as well as his legal rights. Why must this advice be rendered in private?

On the other hand, if the idea is to have an opportunity to coach a suspect as to what to say or what not to say under the guise of giving legal advice (eg. \"If you share the drugs with your girlfriend the law says that is trafficking, but not if it's for your own use\")... 🤷

]]>https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/1653528https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/1653528Wed, 09 Mar 2016 04:42:50 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Police investigating 'unnatural death' of 14-year-old boy on Wed, 09 Mar 2016 03:50:04 GMT]]>

limlim:
jetsetter:

On the early access to legal counsel...methinks it's worth reviewing, and I've gone on record to say please do something about that in this thread.


With regards to this, I feel, one necessary change is \"Any statement recorded not in the presence of counsel or guardian should not be taken as evidence in court\". Althou they can be a great aid in helping the police to establish the truth.

let them go review the system...

]]>https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/1653503https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/1653503Wed, 09 Mar 2016 03:50:04 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Police investigating 'unnatural death' of 14-year-old boy on Wed, 09 Mar 2016 03:48:44 GMT]]>

Irrelevant:
jetsetter:

On the early access to legal counsel...methinks it's worth reviewing, and I've gone on record to say please do something about that in this thread.


Allow me to offer a perspective.

Does a person need early access to legal counsel if he is innocent? From my (probably biased) previous experience as an investigation officer, there is really nothing to hide if a person is innocent. Counsel will probably advise the accused to tell the truth anyway.

On the other hand, if a person is guilty.....


P.S. Is this thread all about protecting the innocent or defending the rights of the guilty? 🤷

Well, hmmm, if you go along the lines LawSoc is postulating, it appears that the presence of a legal advisor during the interview of a child, innocent or not innocent, may help 'calm his nerves' somewhat.
[quote]Amolat Singh, a veteran criminal lawyer said: “Children are very vulnerable. If teachers and principals can terrify a child, how do you think they would react to a police of cer?” He has a point. A stressful interrogation can extract what the interrogator is looking for, which may, or may not, be the truth. There are plenty of empirical psychological studies that strongly suggest that people of sound mind and temperament can be made to confess to something that they didn’t do.[/quote]And the Prez doesn't seem to have any answers to your question at this point:
[quote]Thio: \"let me ask a question that has been posed to me as a thought experiment: If Benjamin had a lawyer present to give advice during the course of the interview, would things have turned out differently? As I said earlier, we will never have certainty, but it is not impossible to imagine a different outcome, and if that is possible, then one more question: How then should we act?

I continue to believe that near immediate or at worst, early access to counsel is a necessity in ensuring sustainable con dence in our criminal justice system.\"[/quote]In fact, not just being there during the interview. They \"have proposed a one hour private meeting between accused/suspect and lawyer before any statements are taken\". I believe this critical window enables the lawyer to understand better of the case, per whatever prima facie evidence the police holds at that pt in time, to suss out (oft-omitted in one's panic) more vital info from the client thru effective questioning techniques (lawyers frame questions in a diff way from IO), and guide him how to substantiate with perhaps some mitigating factors that he might have forgotten himself during the arrest, as well as to present his oral answers in a truthful and coherent manner. And lastly, manage the accused's expectations on various types of guidance prog he might face moving forward if proven guilty.


Good that you've done IO work before. Btw, would you and fellow IOs question the interviewees in matter-of-factly tone, in a chronological order you were trained to, or question as gently as would a nurse to a patient? :evil: I believe IOs' preference is to extract firsthand, virgin, untainted statement out when the accused hasn't met with anyone else yet, right?

]]>https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/1653501https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/1653501Wed, 09 Mar 2016 03:48:44 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Police investigating 'unnatural death' of 14-year-old boy on Wed, 09 Mar 2016 03:17:10 GMT]]>It’s a double heart pain to the parent. One to find out your child is never coming back or lead a full life. The other is realizing there was something your child never confided in you about but you can never help. Perhaps in a police investigation a different approach can be given for minors? Some of them need help, not just the rotan.

]]>https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/1653486https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/1653486Wed, 09 Mar 2016 03:17:10 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Police investigating 'unnatural death' of 14-year-old boy on Wed, 09 Mar 2016 03:06:47 GMT]]>

Irrelevant:
Is this thread all about protecting the innocent or defending the rights of the guilty? 🤷

This thread is all about protecting our children first.

]]>https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/1653480https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/1653480Wed, 09 Mar 2016 03:06:47 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Police investigating 'unnatural death' of 14-year-old boy on Wed, 09 Mar 2016 02:50:48 GMT]]>

jetsetter:
On the early access to legal counsel...methinks it's worth reviewing, and I've gone on record to say please do something about that in this thread.

Allow me to offer a perspective.

Does a person need early access to legal counsel if he is innocent? From my (probably biased) previous experience as an investigation officer, there is really nothing to hide if a person is innocent. Counsel will probably advise the accused to tell the truth anyway.

On the other hand, if a person is guilty.....


P.S. Is this thread all about protecting the innocent or defending the rights of the guilty? 🤷

]]>https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/1653473https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/1653473Wed, 09 Mar 2016 02:50:48 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Police investigating 'unnatural death' of 14-year-old boy on Tue, 08 Mar 2016 09:53:27 GMT]]>

jetsetter:
On the early access to legal counsel...methinks it's worth reviewing, and I've gone on record to say please do something about that in this thread.

With regards to this, I feel, one necessary change is \"Any statement recorded not in the presence of counsel or guardian should not be taken as evidence in court\". Althou they can be a great aid in helping the police to establish the truth.

]]>https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/1653192https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/1653192Tue, 08 Mar 2016 09:53:27 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Police investigating 'unnatural death' of 14-year-old boy on Tue, 08 Mar 2016 07:46:09 GMT]]>On the early access to legal counsel...methinks it's worth reviewing, and I've gone on record to say please do something about that in this thread. I can see many online citizens are pushing for it, but let's not forget tt there are likely to be some consequences... I think many might have forgotten that a lawyer charges on an hourly basis. Currently, the young offenders aren't having immediate access in the early stages of the interviews (actually many adult offenders too). Quite understandably so, as majority of juveniles do get discharged (70%?) and placed on some guidance programme eventually. So really, do you want to be charged for legal counsel for those few hours?


The stakeholders/policymakers may have to consider this carefully when they are reviewing the changes, cos many juveniles presumably come from either dysfunctional or low income families (no proven stats at this point - sorry). Sure, there'll be pro bono lawyers coming in to advise from time to time, but if this becomes law and an industry practice, I wonder how long such 'charitable acts' can sustain in the long run? Criminal lawyers need to feed themselves too, so they will have to charge the young offenders' parents some day huh? So be aware of what you (not saying you all, but the vigilantes and activists out there) wish for. After all, the attrition rate is already not low...

Perhaps this article should give u a sense why certain individuals are fighting for certain changes/reviews in the light of this tragic incident:
http://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/singapore/as-a-legal-career-loses/2574860.html

And maybe it's high time the G allows for early access...criminal & family lawyers are not paid as well as corporate lawyers. Give them a reason to charge? :moneyflies: 🦆

http://www.todayonline.com/singapore/criminal-family-law-need-more-practitioners-indranee?page=1

]]>https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/1653122https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/1653122Tue, 08 Mar 2016 07:46:09 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Police investigating 'unnatural death' of 14-year-old boy on Tue, 08 Mar 2016 07:40:48 GMT]]>http://i64.tinypic.com/28vzret.gif\"> I sushi-board past.....

]]>https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/1653118https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/1653118Tue, 08 Mar 2016 07:40:48 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Police investigating 'unnatural death' of 14-year-old boy on Tue, 08 Mar 2016 07:16:27 GMT]]>I fly past...

http://i67.tinypic.com/15711e1.gif\">

]]>https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/1653097https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/1653097Tue, 08 Mar 2016 07:16:27 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Police investigating 'unnatural death' of 14-year-old boy on Tue, 08 Mar 2016 06:22:50 GMT]]>

stetan:
Let me tell a fairy tale -


Once upon a time, a princess said that an apple was bitter. However, the \"All-Knowing\" wise man of the East insisted that the apple was sweet. The wise man asked the princess to prove that the apple was bitter. The consenting princess took a small bite and confirm so. The \"All-Knowing\" wise man, embarrassed and angered that his cloak of invincibility being dented and challenged, tried to twist his way around by making long repetitive magical spells (most of which backfired) and insisting that it is on the onus of the princess to prove that it was bitter ( which was already done so ).

When all that failed, he started accusing the princess of all heinous crimes possible, even rallying the Sun and the Moon to join in. \"Yes, she is wicked\" , they all chorused. Even the pirates of the seas joined in. Undaunted, the princess stood her ground. But the wise man kept his relentless jibes on the princess, hoping that will obfuscate the entire issue and to wear the princess down.

The princess decided that she should spend time playing with her pet frog instead of wasting anymore time to hear the wise man croaking incessantly. Since leopards seldom change their spots, the princess realised that frogs will never change their croaks too.

The princess lived happily ever after. Not too sure of the \"All Knowing\" wise man.

P/S: the above characters are not in reference to anybody living. Sheer resemblance are purely coincidental.
You are pretty good at telling fairy tales, you know, the sort of stuff that isn't grounded in logic or reality. I won't assume to be the wise man, but I'm living very happily, thank you, although it would seem the princess has been disturbed and woken sufficiently to write more than 2 sentences.

]]>https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/1653074https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/1653074Tue, 08 Mar 2016 06:22:50 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Police investigating 'unnatural death' of 14-year-old boy on Tue, 08 Mar 2016 01:48:15 GMT]]>http://www.kiasuparents.com/kiasu/phpbb3/download/file.php?avatar=26445_1457328680.gif\">




walks pass......

]]>https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/1652933https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/1652933Tue, 08 Mar 2016 01:48:15 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Police investigating 'unnatural death' of 14-year-old boy on Tue, 08 Mar 2016 01:38:45 GMT]]>**Ribbit***


😉 😉 😉

]]>https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/1652926https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/1652926Tue, 08 Mar 2016 01:38:45 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Police investigating 'unnatural death' of 14-year-old boy on Tue, 08 Mar 2016 01:18:56 GMT]]>The princess kissed her pet frog and it turned into a prince. They married and lived happily ever after. Last the princess saw, the pirates continues to roam aimlessly in the seven seas, ever ready to plunder and kill whoever that opposes them

]]>https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/1652904https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/1652904Tue, 08 Mar 2016 01:18:56 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Police investigating 'unnatural death' of 14-year-old boy on Tue, 08 Mar 2016 01:10:06 GMT]]>The pirates were just annoyed to see the "princess" pelting a poor farmer at the market with apples that she kept insisting were bitter.


Not too sure whether Her Worship actually lived happily ever after. Last the pirates saw, she was grumbling to the frogs in the pond - something about the impertinent serfs in the Kingdom refusing to recognize her royal lineage.

]]>https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/1652896https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/1652896Tue, 08 Mar 2016 01:10:06 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Police investigating 'unnatural death' of 14-year-old boy on Mon, 07 Mar 2016 12:28:40 GMT]]>Let me tell a fairy tale -


Once upon a time, a princess said that an apple was bitter. However, the "All-Knowing" wise man of the East insisted that the apple was sweet. The wise man asked the princess to prove that the apple was bitter. The consenting princess took a small bite and confirm so. The "All-Knowing" wise man, embarrassed and angered that his cloak of invincibility being dented and challenged, tried to twist his way around by making long repetitive magical spells (most of which backfired) and insisting that it is on the onus of the princess to prove that it was bitter ( which was already done so ).

When all that failed, he started accusing the princess of all heinous crimes possible, even rallying the Sun and the Moon to join in. "Yes, she is wicked" , they all chorused. Even the pirates of the seas joined in. Undaunted, the princess stood her ground. But the wise man kept his relentless jibes on the princess, hoping that will obfuscate the entire issue and to wear the princess down.

The princess decided that she should spend time playing with her pet frog instead of wasting anymore time to hear the wise man croaking incessantly. Since leopards seldom change their spots, the princess realised that frogs will never change their croaks too.

The princess lived happily ever after. Not too sure of the "All Knowing" wise man.

P/S: the above characters are not in reference to anybody living. Sheer resemblance are purely coincidental.

]]>https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/1652724https://forum.kiasuparents.com/post/1652724Mon, 07 Mar 2016 12:28:40 GMT