Can child care reject hyper active or dyslexia student?

Reply to Can child care reject hyper active or dyslexia student? on Tue, 02 Feb 2010 15:08:43 GMT

fightidiots — Tue, 02 Feb 2010 15:08:43 GMT

//Moderator's note: Post edited to remove inflamatory content. KiasuParents.com does not permit name calling of any kind. We can always bring across our unhappiness in a civil fashion that stimulates constructive discussions, which do not degenerate into pointless arguments.

happydaddy:
My son CC has a nuisance classmate in K2. He is hyper active. He creates a list of problem for the teacher and disturb his classmate.

Recently my kid has a fight with him as he keep disturbing him. What action can we done to get rid of this kid? Can he attend normal CC? or special need shool? Can the school expel him? Having hyper active and dyslexia kids really make the centre looks dis-organise.

XXXXXX! Why does the pot always call the kettle black? :siao:

Do not blame another kid when you are at fault for not giving your child proper upbringing.

Reply to Can child care reject hyper active or dyslexia student? on Tue, 02 Feb 2010 14:46:31 GMT

2ppaamm — Tue, 02 Feb 2010 14:46:31 GMT

Actually, happydaddy, just wondering how you would feel if your child, in his later years tests positively with a learning disability. Just a random thought, but a very real one.

I can never imagine myself to have a special needs child. In fact, my child was only diagnosed end of P3, very close to 10 years old. So, if one day, you see that your child has a mild form of some learning disabilities, how would you react? … Just wondering…

Reply to Can child care reject hyper active or dyslexia student? on Tue, 02 Feb 2010 14:24:41 GMT

WaWa — Tue, 02 Feb 2010 14:24:41 GMT

happydaddy:

Tolerance & understanding are the key word. Yes you are absolutely right. This only apply when you are living in the ideal school with ideal kids. You think all the kids so obedient and tolerance?

Sorry I don't get you - you mean tolerance can only be applied if you are in \"ideal school\" with \"ideal kids\"??\" So, if the school is not \"ideal\" or the kids \"are not ideal\", then there is no need to exercise tolerance & understanding???? Ah...no wonder such hostility & self-centredness.

To me, exercising tolerance & understanding is what makes the environment \"ideal\". And to me, there is no such thing as \"ideal school\"... you just have to make do...or, u can keep searching for your \"definition of ideal school\" with \"ideal kids\". Precisely, not all kids are obedient & tolerant (not tolerance) ... which is why i said your son can end up fighting other boys in other school as well. I am not suggesting your son is naughty ...what I am trying to highlight to you is that there will be others (normal kids) in future who will \"disturb\" or \"provoke\" your son & your son will end up fighting them too ... are we going to expel all who fought with your son? In case you misunderstand me again, I am also not saying your son is at fault for fighting. I fully understand that as a child , he may not understand the situation & he may feel provoked by the boy's behaviour & hence, retaliation thru' fighting is the only reaction/solution he could think of, which is expected of a young child; expected of juveniles. However, i do not expect you to think like your son ; let alone condone what he has done by asking us to imagine ourselves to be in his shoes. Why can't you imagine yourself to be in the shoes of the hyperactive boy then? You painted such a sorry picture of your son but spared no empathy for the other child.

We , as parents , ought to be more level-headed & explain to our children (your son in this case) that this classmate has a special need, it was never an intended act of antagonism by this classmate and hence, why he should maintain his composure next time, AND at the same time , work with the management of the CC to tackle the issue by asking them if they have in place concrete procedures to prevent future occurrence; withdrawing your son as a last resort (ie when u feel the school is still unable to cope which is how u are feeling now ).

I do not expect you to even condone what your son has done by calling that boy a \"nuisance\" - how do u feel if i call your son \"nuisance\" ??? This is basic courtesy right? Your son has a mother so does the hyperactive boy....for an Adult to call people names ... worse , in this case an Adult calling a kid names ... is such a low blow, really.

What's more ... your immediate \"resolution\" following the fight was \"how to expel this nuisance\" .... and so far you have shown no remorse in your choice of words in your initial hostile post. Wait till another adult calls your son all sorts of names ... u tell me how u feel. My guess is you may even fight that parent (ok i apologise for digressing & assuming...but i m just trying to lead you to think deeper )

Also, You seem to have changed tact. Your initial focus was the boy being a nuisance and was thinking of ways to remove him. But now, after garnering some flaks in your original post, you start to focus more on the teacher's inability to manage the boy and hence why you think the boy might be better in a special sch setting.

happydaddy:

You want to save a tree and sacrifice the entire forest?

Precisely. Who is the tree here and who is the forest here is not for you to decide. What you see as angelic might appear as devils to others. For all you know, your son might be the tree. We can never be too sure.

And you haven't answered me, how does dyslexia makes the CC looks dis-organised?
Lee Kuan Yew is dyslexic - does Singapore look disorganised to you?
http://www.das.org.sg/aboutdyslexia/whohas.htm

Reply to Can child care reject hyper active or dyslexia student? on Tue, 02 Feb 2010 06:54:08 GMT

happydaddy — Tue, 02 Feb 2010 06:54:08 GMT

WaWa:
** Nodding Head **

Agree with Schweppes & 2ppaamm. A little understanding, plus tolerance & acceptance goes a long way.

Agree With Funz... Autism is no \"better than\" ADHD nor is it worse than ADHD. They are just 2 different condition but may at times \"share a few similarities\".

When an autistic kid tantrums or flares up, it can be pretty violent & destructive too (just the same as ADHD kid)... yes sometimes we are able to \"see the signs coming\" and we can then quickly manage the situation to avoid allowing them to escalate to such level of intensity. However, there are times we cannot foresee the tantrums coming & it unfortunately \"goes a little out of hand\".... and they become seen as a \"nuisance\" to HappyDaddy or like-minded individuals like HappyDaddy.

I fully agree with the statement made by Schweppes - it is NOT a case of us saying that the special needs kids should be accorded all privileges & benefit, at the expense of others.

It is about having a little understanding, acceptance, tolerance & compassion that goes a long way for a gracious society. It is about working together with them & with the right authority to address the issue in a positive manner.

There is a reason why God creates \"special needs people\" ... perhaps one of the reasons is to \"help the normal people slow down, breathe & and instill compassion into this society which would otherwise have been too caught up in the mad rat race; making it less than desired for humankind...not to even mention graciousness!

We have to be mindful that although being normal is a privilege; it doesn't give us the \"above all\" privilege ... we have no right to \"get rid\" of people just because you cannot tolerate a humankind that is \"less than perfect\" in your eyes... or just because you feel your normal child's progress is impeded by a less than perfect child.

Tolerance & understanding is key here.... if you really cannot tolerate such \"abnormal behaviour\", do consider transferring your child out of the CC rather than trying to make the CC \"get rid\" of that child.

And please do not change tact by saying this post is about hyperactive kids & not autism nor special needs in general ...cos your last sentence clearly states \"Having hyper active & dyslexia kids kids really make the centre looks dis-organised\"! And how does dyslexia \"disturb\" you now ?

Tolerance & understanding are the key word. Yes you are absolutely right. This only apply when you are living in the ideal school with ideal kids. You think all the kids so obedient and tolerance?

The CC is private organisation and profit oriented. You think in K2, they will put in another spec teacher or asst teacher just to handle them? If they do, prepare to hear another round of fee increment.

Right now, this CC, i personally feel it is not suitable for spec need student. They only have 1 teacher to handle the class and the class is big.
And worst, the teacher is inexperience. In this environment, you think this spec kid is better off in this CC or go to another CC where less kid and the teacher will focus more on him?

In this evironment, i think the kid should go to another CC where there is a teacher specialise in spec need. For the benefit of the rest.

You want to save a tree and sacrifice the entire forest?

Reply to Can child care reject hyper active or dyslexia student? on Mon, 01 Feb 2010 06:41:43 GMT

Funz — Mon, 01 Feb 2010 06:41:43 GMT

agree with schweppes.

I had a kid who is all bright eyed and eager all the time. And many a times, in rushing to follow the teachers’ instructions, he pushes or shoves others away. And if the kid being pushed or shoved reacts, that is when a fight will breakout between the 2. Once we understand that the kid is not intentionally violent but just overly excited, we find ways to address that issue. With normal kids, we will try to teach the child to wait his turn. But for a special needs child, we have to find other ways. So for this instance, the teacher will tell the rest of the children wait while this kid gets to move ahead first. And this kid is placed in front of the class, sits near/beside the teacher and when moving from place to place, the teacher will hold on to him firmly.

As the teachers and children spend more time with such children, they will recognise certain triggers as well. I had another child who is ADHD and whenever he is upset over some things, he will growl. During such times, the teacher will know to call me or my supervisor for backup before he goes into overdrive.

While our hearts go out to these children and their parents, we also understand the frustration of parents of normal kids who may be affected by the inclusion of the special needs child in the class. As such, it is very important for each centre to make sure that their environment and their teachers are able to handle the needs of such children without causing too much upheavals before accepting them.

Reply to Can child care reject hyper active or dyslexia student? on Mon, 01 Feb 2010 06:00:55 GMT

schweppes — Mon, 01 Feb 2010 06:00:55 GMT

happydaddy:

Frankly, autistic kid is VERY MUCH BETTER behaviour compare to hyper active kids. Hyper active kid is dangerous.

The discussion is more on special need (hyper active).

1. Imagine, going over to yr kid and snatch his toy without saying anything. And the next thing you know, fighting.
2. Imagine, your kid is doing drawing, half way, come over and vandalish his artwork.

And many more..

I empathise that what you and your child is going thru at the CC is very frustrating and tiring. Your DS is supposed to go to school to learn, play and basically enjoy his pre-school days. Instead, the poor child feels stressed as his learning and play is perhaps \"unfairly\" disrupted by another child.

In this instance, the teacher is probably not adequately trained nor does she have the necessary support to handle special needs kids. I'm not sure if the parents of this child is aware that the child is special needs. Still, whether the parents are aware or not, the teacher could highlight to the parents to seek help and engage in early intervention to correct his behavioural problems.

happydaddy:
Hyper active kid is dangerous.

Funz:
I have seen autistic children who are violent as well and hyperactive kids who are just 100% enthusiasm.

Sometimes, to the uninitiated, these behaviour of special needs kids may appear \"dangerous\" and \"violent\". It may seem as if special needs kids are not well-disciplined.

However, most times, ADHD and ASD kids are not being \"violent\" or being a \"nuisance\" for the sake of being violent or a nuisance to others. Sometimes, it cd be due to a chemical imbalance in their bodies that may affect their central nervous system, which will in turn affect their behavioural actions. It may be that these kids lack the social skills to understand that what they are doing at that moment may be an inappropriate action or behaviour. At other times, they are enthusiastic and exuberent. Unfortunately, in their excitement of wanting to belong, their actions and behaviour may come across as violent and disruptive.

In all times, they are simply misunderstood.

Reply to Can child care reject hyper active or dyslexia student? on Mon, 01 Feb 2010 05:28:49 GMT

WaWa — Mon, 01 Feb 2010 05:28:49 GMT

** Nodding Head **

Agree with Schweppes & 2ppaamm. A little understanding, plus tolerance & acceptance goes a long way.

Agree With Funz… Autism is no "better than" ADHD nor is it worse than ADHD. They are just 2 different condition but may at times "share a few similarities".

When an autistic kid tantrums or flares up, it can be pretty violent & destructive too (just the same as ADHD kid)… yes sometimes we are able to "see the signs coming" and we can then quickly manage the situation to avoid allowing them to escalate to such level of intensity. However, there are times we cannot foresee the tantrums coming & it unfortunately "goes a little out of hand"… and they become seen as a "nuisance" to HappyDaddy or like-minded individuals like HappyDaddy.

I fully agree with the statement made by Schweppes - it is NOT a case of us saying that the special needs kids should be accorded all privileges & benefit, at the expense of others.

It is about having a little understanding, acceptance, tolerance & compassion that goes a long way for a gracious society. It is about working together with them & with the right authority to address the issue in a positive manner.

There is a reason why God creates "special needs people" … perhaps one of the reasons is to "help the normal people slow down, breathe & and instill compassion into this society which would otherwise have been too caught up in the mad rat race; making it less than desired for humankind…not to even mention graciousness!

We have to be mindful that although being normal is a privilege; it doesn’t give us the "above all" privilege … we have no right to "get rid" of people just because you cannot tolerate a humankind that is "less than perfect" in your eyes… or just because you feel your normal child’s progress is impeded by a less than perfect child.

Tolerance & understanding is key here… if you really cannot tolerate such "abnormal behaviour", do consider transferring your child out of the CC rather than trying to make the CC "get rid" of that child.

And please do not change tact by saying this post is about hyperactive kids & not autism nor special needs in general …cos your last sentence clearly states "Having hyper active & dyslexia kids kids really make the centre looks dis-organised"! And how does dyslexia "disturb" you now ?

Reply to Can child care reject hyper active or dyslexia student? on Mon, 01 Feb 2010 02:59:26 GMT

2ppaamm — Mon, 01 Feb 2010 02:59:26 GMT

schweppes:

:goodpost: :goodpost: 2ppaamm

Thank you for your sharing. I also believe FRIEND is where he is at now because he has good role models - his parents and teachers - to guide him.

Your sharing brings to mind a similar story to share.

When my DD1 was in P4, there were 3 special needs students in the class. One or two were dyslexic and the other autistic (high-functioning). Despite the challenges, the teachers managed the class reasonably well and ensured that the rest of the normal students play/work fair and include the special needs students in their study groups.

One student, took it upon herself to befriend all the special needs girls. This girl became Head Prefect by the time she was in P6. She was popular and well-liked by all teachers and friends. When the PSLE 2009 results were released, Head Prefect was the Top 2nd Student (2nd highest T-score) in the school, missing the top student by a mere 2 points difference.

I don't doubt the frustrations faced by administrators, teachers and classmates dealing with individuals with special needs. It can be a challenge and sometimes, daunting task.

But, one must remember that these special needs individuals and their parents are not without their own problems and challenges too. If given a choice, no one wants to have a learning disability.

At the same time, I am not saying that special needs individuals should be accorded all privileges and benefits, sometimes at the expense of others. Or that we shd give in to them all the time. Because, sometimes it depends on the circumstance too.

What is important is that society needs to be more tolerant, patient and understanding - whether to individuals who are less fortunate than us or otherwise.

Because, sometimes, all it takes is a little kindness and understanding that will go a l-o-n-g way.

JMHO :celebrate:

Thanks for the post! And, you are right. It was the mom who has taught the kid very well. She is a counsellor herself. She took it upon herself to teach her child well, inviting my son (who has a history of fighting and is a head taller than hers) to her house. She told me that DS2 needs help, and just has different views from the world.

Yes, we too, can be like FRIEND's mom, we can make a difference in this world through our children. And, I believe the ones who will ultimately benefit are our kids, by giving those with learning disabilities a helping hand.

Reply to Can child care reject hyper active or dyslexia student? on Mon, 01 Feb 2010 02:42:17 GMT

Funz — Mon, 01 Feb 2010 02:42:17 GMT

happydaddy:
Frankly, autistic kid is VERY MUCH BETTER behaviour compare to hyper active kids. Hyper active kid is dangerous.

The discussion is more on special need (hyper active).

1. Imagine, going over to yr kid and snatch his toy without saying anything. And the next thing you know, fighting.
2. Imagine, your kid is doing drawing, half way, come over and vandalish his artwork.

And many more..

Not really. There are many different variations and seriousness of each condition, be it autism or hyperactivity. And they may not be mutually exclusive to each other.

Like Insider, I am in the childcare business and I have handled my fair share of special needs kids. Our centre also accept special needs children but only after interviewing parents, finding out their support structure and having the child go through 1-2mths trial with the class teachers.

I have seen autistic children who are violent as well and hyperactive kids who are just 100% enthusiasm.

In your case, I suggest that you have a good long talk to the principle and if really after so many withdrawals and still nothing is done, time for you to look for another school.

Reply to Can child care reject hyper active or dyslexia student? on Mon, 01 Feb 2010 02:39:42 GMT

schweppes — Mon, 01 Feb 2010 02:39:42 GMT

2ppaamm:
Yesterday, my special needs (autistic) child had a fabulous time at a friend's birthday party. This is the very first time he has ever been invited, because he has more or less been ostracized in class, by teacher and friends, so no one will invite him, no one, that is, except FRIEND.

FRIEND's mother shared a story, on how FRIEND became a good friend of DS2. As a punishment for asking too many questions, FRIEND was asked to sit with my son (who gives all the nonsense stated in this forum). But FRIEND went home one day and told his mom that DS2 is not as bad as people made him out to be. He then had a mission, and that is to make friends with DS2. They did become good friends. Most importantly, DS2 now feels accepted and can be like any other kids, make friends and have a more normal life.

At the end of the year, all of them were promoted. There were 3 special kids in the class, including DS2. All of them were promoted to GEP, including FRIEND. FRIEND is a good friend to all these boys. He made it a mission to do that. He is very popular.

My take on this: The winner in all of these? FRIEND. He is normal and he knows how to reach out to those less fortunate and make friends with all kinds. He will be the true leader. Above all that, he topped the SCHOOL. Now, aren't we looking at a future leader?

I hope my other non-special needs kids will emulate his example, and reach out to those who needs a helping hand. We all need that.

:goodpost: :goodpost: 2ppaamm

Thank you for your sharing. I also believe FRIEND is where he is at now because he has good role models - his parents and teachers - to guide him.

Your sharing brings to mind a similar story to share.

When my DD1 was in P4, there were 3 special needs students in the class. One or two were dyslexic and the other autistic (high-functioning). Despite the challenges, the teachers managed the class reasonably well and ensured that the rest of the normal students play/work fair and include the special needs students in their study groups.

One student, took it upon herself to befriend all the special needs girls. This girl became Head Prefect by the time she was in P6. She was popular and well-liked by all teachers and friends. When the PSLE 2009 results were released, Head Prefect was the Top 2nd Student (2nd highest T-score) in the school, missing the top student by a mere 2 points difference.

I don't doubt the frustrations faced by administrators, teachers and classmates dealing with individuals with special needs. It can be a challenge and sometimes, daunting task.

But, one must remember that these special needs individuals and their parents are not without their own problems and challenges too. If given a choice, no one wants to have a learning disability.

At the same time, I am not saying that special needs individuals should be accorded all privileges and benefits, sometimes at the expense of others. Or that we shd give in to them all the time. Because, sometimes it depends on the circumstance too.

What is important is that society needs to be more tolerant, patient and understanding - whether to individuals who are less fortunate than us or otherwise.

Because, sometimes, all it takes is a little kindness and understanding that will go a l-o-n-g way.

JMHO :celebrate:

Reply to Can child care reject hyper active or dyslexia student? on Mon, 01 Feb 2010 02:04:51 GMT

happydaddy — Mon, 01 Feb 2010 02:04:51 GMT

2ppaamm:
Yesterday, my special needs (autistic) child had a fabulous time at a friend's birthday party. This is the very first time he has ever been invited, because he has more or less been ostracized in class, by teacher and friends, so no one will invite him, no one, that is, except FRIEND.

FRIEND's mother shared a story, on how FRIEND became a good friend of DS2. As a punishment for asking too many questions, FRIEND was asked to sit with my son (who gives all the nonsense stated in this forum). But FRIEND went home one day and told his mom that DS2 is not as bad as people made him out to be. He then had a mission, and that is to make friends with DS2. They did become good friends. Most importantly, DS2 now feels accepted and can be like any other kids, make friends and have a more normal life.

At the end of the year, all of them were promoted. There were 3 special kids in the class, including DS2. All of them were promoted to GEP, including FRIEND. FRIEND is a good friend to all these boys. He made it a mission to do that. He is very popular.

My take on this: The winner in all of these? FRIEND. He is normal and he knows how to reach out to those less fortunate and make friends with all kinds. He will be the true leader. Above all that, he topped the SCHOOL. Now, aren't we looking at a future leader?

I hope my other non-special needs kids will emulate his example, and reach out to those who needs a helping hand. We all need that.

Frankly, autistic kid is VERY MUCH BETTER behaviour compare to hyper active kids. Hyper active kid is dangerous.

The discussion is more on special need (hyper active).

1. Imagine, going over to yr kid and snatch his toy without saying anything. And the next thing you know, fighting.
2. Imagine, your kid is doing drawing, half way, come over and vandalish his artwork.

And many more..

Reply to Can child care reject hyper active or dyslexia student? on Mon, 01 Feb 2010 00:33:00 GMT

2ppaamm — Mon, 01 Feb 2010 00:33:00 GMT

Yesterday, my special needs (autistic) child had a fabulous time at a friend’s birthday party. This is the very first time he has ever been invited, because he has more or less been ostracized in class, by teacher and friends, so no one will invite him, no one, that is, except FRIEND.

FRIEND’s mother shared a story, on how FRIEND became a good friend of DS2. As a punishment for asking too many questions, FRIEND was asked to sit with my son (who gives all the nonsense stated in this forum). But FRIEND went home one day and told his mom that DS2 is not as bad as people made him out to be. He then had a mission, and that is to make friends with DS2. They did become good friends. Most importantly, DS2 now feels accepted and can be like any other kids, make friends and have a more normal life.

At the end of the year, all of them were promoted. There were 3 special kids in the class, including DS2. All of them were promoted to GEP, including FRIEND. FRIEND is a good friend to all these boys. He made it a mission to do that. He is very popular.

My take on this: The winner in all of these? FRIEND. He is normal and he knows how to reach out to those less fortunate and make friends with all kinds. He will be the true leader. Above all that, he topped the SCHOOL. Now, aren’t we looking at a future leader?

I hope my other non-special needs kids will emulate his example, and reach out to those who needs a helping hand. We all need that.

Reply to Can child care reject hyper active or dyslexia student? on Sun, 31 Jan 2010 15:52:06 GMT

WaWa — Sun, 31 Jan 2010 15:52:06 GMT

Actually it is obvious that HappyDaddy is already frustrated with or losing hope with the CC by emphasizing on the no.of withdrawals that has happened / is to happen. As we are not there to witness, we have to be prudent not to associate all withdrawals with this special needs child. This will not be fair.

And it seems to me, HappyDaddy might want to withdraw his child as well…at the rate things are going.

In that case, as per what others have suggested, just withdraw your child since you are concern with your son’s progress in this CC. And as what Insider has mentioned in her first post, your son being a normal kid will most likely be able to adjust better in a new setting compared to the special needs child. So unless the school succumbs to pressure & removes the special needs child, I guess it would be better HappyDaddy removes his child.

Its a blessing to have a normal child - so capitalise on that blessing & move on… move on with your child.

Reply to Can child care reject hyper active or dyslexia student? on Sun, 31 Jan 2010 15:16:28 GMT

2ppaamm — Sun, 31 Jan 2010 15:16:28 GMT

happydaddy:

Most likely yr kid is not in the same group as him, and you have not feel the impact yet. Pls ask yr kid to sit beside him and you will immediately see the different.

Suggest you ask the teacher to give a bigger space between the child with special needs and the others. It is likely he needs more space than a usual child, giving him a bit more space could solve SOME of the problems. Or, he could seat closer to the teacher, and further away from the class.

Also, if he is disturbing the class, could he be bored? The teacher could involve him with some self-learning activities. E.g. reading, drawing, etc.

I'm not there to witness, so there's no silver bullet here. But if the teacher is observant and patient enough, even without special training, she will be able to handle the situation.

My son sits very close to this boy. He has never once come home complaining. I only heard about this boy's stories from another kid's mother.

If you really have a problem with that child, then perhaps you should leave the centre like the rest.

Reply to Can child care reject hyper active or dyslexia student? on Sun, 31 Jan 2010 15:10:01 GMT

happydaddy — Sun, 31 Jan 2010 15:10:01 GMT

2ppaamm:
insider:

Not sure coz not in the primary school sector but think now all schools have some spec teachers? Childcare has a lot of routine care (makan / shower / toileting. 1 teacher will be very difficult.

For 6 years old, ideal class size is about 15 for optimal learning. My take is if there is a spec child (not severe kind) in a class, have to minus off about 3 kids (meaning if class size is 15, to put a spec child in without any teacher assistant will reduce the class size to about 11 + 1 spec child - 12 children. If want to stick to 15, then need a teacher asst).

PS: Spec teachers' salary usually quite high and most centres cannot afford to have one (but getting an asst teacher to help around is affordable...)
In the primary schools, about 1 or 2 SNO in the whole school. We are talking about 1:tens. Also, no chance of getting more teachers in a class or reduce class size in a govt school, even at primary 1, which is 6 to 7 years old as well.

Also, a teacher aide can be placed, but on the parent's full expense. Even more impossible.

Really, if the child care's situation is bad, think about how it will be like in primary school. My other son (not special needs) has a pretty severe case in his class and a teacher aide is involved. He gets into trouble quite a bit. We all just have work with this kid, and we have to teach and educate our own kids to deal and empathize with him. After all, it is indeed a blessing to be normal, and to have a kid like this in the same classroom only amplifies the blessing of being normal. Most importantly, I teach my son not to ostracize him, and befriend him if this boy is ready.

It is better to be on the 'normal' side than the other. Trust me.

You have to be realistic. If this spec kid sit beside yr kid and keep disturbing yr kid. End of the day, yr kid will not be learning anything. Yr kids temper will be frustrated. Trust me. i see it myself.

Most likely yr kid is not in the same group as him, and you have not feel the impact yet. Pls ask yr kid to sit beside him and you will immediately see the different.

Reply to Can child care reject hyper active or dyslexia student? on Sun, 31 Jan 2010 14:57:54 GMT

2ppaamm — Sun, 31 Jan 2010 14:57:54 GMT

insider:

Not sure coz not in the primary school sector but think now all schools have some spec teachers? Childcare has a lot of routine care (makan / shower / toileting. 1 teacher will be very difficult.

For 6 years old, ideal class size is about 15 for optimal learning. My take is if there is a spec child (not severe kind) in a class, have to minus off about 3 kids (meaning if class size is 15, to put a spec child in without any teacher assistant will reduce the class size to about 11 + 1 spec child - 12 children. If want to stick to 15, then need a teacher asst).

PS: Spec teachers' salary usually quite high and most centres cannot afford to have one (but getting an asst teacher to help around is affordable...)

In the primary schools, about 1 or 2 SNO in the whole school. We are talking about 1:tens. Also, no chance of getting more teachers in a class or reduce class size in a govt school, even at primary 1, which is 6 to 7 years old as well.

Also, a teacher aide can be placed, but on the parent's full expense. Even more impossible.

Really, if the child care's situation is bad, think about how it will be like in primary school. My other son (not special needs) has a pretty severe case in his class and a teacher aide is involved. He gets into trouble quite a bit. We all just have work with this kid, and we have to teach and educate our own kids to deal and empathize with him. After all, it is indeed a blessing to be normal, and to have a kid like this in the same classroom only amplifies the blessing of being normal. Most importantly, I teach my son not to ostracize him, and befriend him if this boy is ready.

It is better to be on the 'normal' side than the other. Trust me.

Reply to Can child care reject hyper active or dyslexia student? on Sun, 31 Jan 2010 14:54:07 GMT

happydaddy — Sun, 31 Jan 2010 14:54:07 GMT

insider:
happydaddy:
Nothing is done on the CC.

Your child is in a PCF / NTUC centre? If it is, then more difficult to 'remove' the child else if letter written to Forum then gahment will have hard times defending themselves. If it is a private centre and then they are not doing anything (which I agree class size 20 incl of a spec child is too much for any teacher to handle. Such arrangement is not fair to the spec child and the other children as well).

If child is in gahment's centre, you have little chance of getting what you want (coz it is not supposed to be profit-geared but social responsibility geared). If private one, gang up with a few parents and write a petition to the centre, stating that you can empathise with the spec child but the situation is not ideal and they have to engage a teacher assistant to help the main teacher else whoever signed will withdraw. If a private centre is really keen to help spec children, they also have to weigh whether they have the human resource (quality and quantity) available or not. If don't have, then a spec child staying there also not really beneficial. Think this 'strategy' may benefit all...

All the best!

private CC. Come feb, 6 kids withdraw from the class. Unless the operator do something, i think come march another 6 will leave.

Reply to Can child care reject hyper active or dyslexia student? on Sun, 31 Jan 2010 14:52:34 GMT

happydaddy — Sun, 31 Jan 2010 14:52:34 GMT

insider:
2ppaamm:

Just curious, how would a primary school, with 30 in a class handle?

Not sure coz not in the primary school sector but think now all schools have some spec teachers? Childcare has a lot of routine care (makan / shower / toileting. 1 teacher will be very difficult.

For 6 years old, ideal class size is about 15 for optimal learning. My take is if there is a spec child (not severe kind) in a class, have to minus off about 3 kids (meaning if class size is 15, to put a spec child in without any teacher assistant will reduce the class size to about 11 + 1 spec child - 12 children. If want to stick to 15, then need a teacher asst).

PS: Spec teachers' salary usually quite high and most centres cannot afford to have one (but getting an asst teacher to help around is affordable...)[/quote]

and you are right. Those CC with spec teacher fee are way too high for them.

Reply to Can child care reject hyper active or dyslexia student? on Sun, 31 Jan 2010 14:37:20 GMT

2ppaamm — Sun, 31 Jan 2010 14:37:20 GMT

insider:
happydaddy:
Nothing is done on the CC.

Your child is in a PCF / NTUC centre? If it is, then more difficult to 'remove' the child else if letter written to Forum then gahment will have hard times defending themselves. If it is a private centre and then they are not doing anything (which I agree class size 20 incl of a spec child is too much for any teacher to handle. Such arrangement is not fair to the spec child and the other children as well).

If child is in gahment's centre, you have little chance of getting what you want (coz it is not supposed to be profit-geared but social responsibility geared). If private one, gang up with a few parents and write a petition to the centre, stating that you can empathise with the spec child but the situation is not ideal and they have to engage a teacher assistant to help the main teacher else whoever signed will withdraw. If a private centre is really keen to help spec children, they also have to weigh whether they have the human resource (quality and quantity) available or not. If don't have, then a spec child staying there also not really beneficial. Think this 'strategy' may benefit all...

All the best!

Just curious, how would a primary school, with 30 in a class handle?

I met with a teacher in my son's school recently. She was a SNO (Special Needs Officer), and now a teacher. She told me that she had 15 cases of special needs in her class last year.

This year, she has 11 confirmed cases (with papers) and 3 more to be diagnosed. I asked her if she had such a high proportion of special cases because she was a SNO. She told me every class is the same. We are talking about a class of 30.

So, with more and more of our children being diagnosed. How will 'normal' kids adapt to all these special needs children? Remove them one by one? Or get the teachers trained? Obviously there is a gap here. In the child care, we can move our own children out, in a primary school, it becomes much more challenging.

Reply to Can child care reject hyper active or dyslexia student? on Sun, 31 Jan 2010 14:21:52 GMT

happydaddy — Sun, 31 Jan 2010 14:21:52 GMT

the reason i say that is that, the teacher simply cannot manage the class. Or should i say, the teacher is too stress out by this nuisance kid.

Imagine, 20 kids in the class, and the teacher attention is 100% on that hyper active kid.

If the teacher can control him, i do not mind, but the fact is, the CC cannot handle it and a lot of parents is complaining, not only me. Nothing is done on the CC.

Reply to Can child care reject hyper active or dyslexia student? on Sun, 31 Jan 2010 13:50:21 GMT

2ppaamm — Sun, 31 Jan 2010 13:50:21 GMT

WaWa:
I'm indeed shocked & saddened to read this post.

HappyDaddy : I certainly hope your son was not too badly hurt in the fight. If so, i hope he recovers fast enough & be well again. My Blessings.

I am however appalled by your choice of words.. eg calling a hyperactive kid \"nuisance\" & using words like \"get rid\" & \"expel\" shows how self-centred & intolerant you are towards the less fortunate / disadvantaged kids. I hope you do not tell/brainwash your son that his classmate is a \"nuisance\" & start giving your son negative connotations of \"special needs\" children hence.

In fact i feel you should be glad that your son is sharing the same classroom as a special needs kid as this means he is given a chance to see how \"blessed\" he is to be born a normal child as opposed to his \"less fortunate\" classmate who is born w a condition (ie the boy u called \"a nuisance\") and this also teaches your child about acceptance & diversity at a raw age.... and of course , Tolerance .. which you do not seem to possess.

I agree with both JonC & Jedamum. Parents of special needs children are already facing an uphill task trying to guide & nurture their kids well. The last we want is for society to ostracize them without even giving them a chance to try to integrate into society, especially at such a raw age. And as it is, with parents like you, most , if not all special needs kids, are \"already ostracized\". They are not even given a chance to integrate and without this chance, they will never be close to normal like your blessed son.

Instead of pressurizing the CC to \"get rid or expel\" the boy, i agree with JonC that you should be addressing your concern with the CC, asking them what plans /procedures they have in place to ensure such \"misunderstanding amongst the children leading to fights\" does not happen again. And if you still are not satisfied with your kid sharing the same classroom with a special needs child, i guess the next best alternative is to remove your own child & make sure your child's next CC has only normal kids who are not \"nuisance\"!

Let me remind you that fights amongst kids (esp boys) happens everywhere, even amongst the very normal kids ... and it is all part & parcel of growing up. Parents should use this opportunity to guide their children appropriately (ie how to make up, teach them how put away such misunderstandings, to continue to forgive & be friends again ....live & let live, so to speak.)

I am not saying the \"nuisance kid\" u so-described has no fault to play ... I am just saying that just because your son fought w him, he has to be expelled? Or do you want him expelled because he is not \"normal\"? What if your son fought with another boy who is normal? Shall we then expel both the kids?

Singapore is a multi-racial , multi-religious country. If we can tolerate all race & religions living together harmoniously , we can tolerate special needs kids. We just have to \"manage the situation positively\" by addressing all areas of concern with the right level of maturity to the relevant authority (in this case, the CC).

I am sure my post will not go down well with you but i hope you can reflect on your choice of words & reflect on your attitude towards families with special needs kids. You are blessed to have a normal child - think: if your child is born with hyperactivity or any other condition, will you want parents of your child's CC asking for your son to be expelled?

:goodpost: As a mother of a special needs child, I know how it feels when being ostracized by parents. In fact, there is no sympathy at all. To some extent, as Singapore becomes more affluent, we are all stepping on each other to move ahead faster. So much so that kids with special needs are no longer entitled to the same treatment. I certainly feel this way. I had to pull my son out of his swimming classes 7 times because parents just insist their children cannot be in the same class as my son. All because they kick each other. When my son is kicked, I tell him to forgive and forget, it is a swimming class after all. If my son kicks them, it will surely be a big hoo ha, with them insisting my son be removed because he is very big sized in addition to poor social skills.

So, why is it that special needs kids have to move and avoid normal kids?

I wonder how it is like in other countries, and how Michael Phelps emerged a superman in his area, being ADHD.

Reply to Can child care reject hyper active or dyslexia student? on Sun, 31 Jan 2010 13:05:12 GMT

WaWa — Sun, 31 Jan 2010 13:05:12 GMT

I’m indeed shocked & saddened to read this post.

HappyDaddy : I certainly hope your son was not too badly hurt in the fight. If so, i hope he recovers fast enough & be well again. My Blessings.

I am however appalled by your choice of words… eg calling a hyperactive kid "nuisance" & using words like "get rid" & "expel" shows how self-centred & intolerant you are towards the less fortunate / disadvantaged kids. I hope you do not tell/brainwash your son that his classmate is a "nuisance" & start giving your son negative connotations of "special needs" children hence.

In fact i feel you should be glad that your son is sharing the same classroom as a special needs kid as this means he is given a chance to see how "blessed" he is to be born a normal child as opposed to his "less fortunate" classmate who is born w a condition (ie the boy u called "a nuisance") and this also teaches your child about acceptance & diversity at a raw age… and of course , Tolerance … which you do not seem to possess.

I agree with both JonC & Jedamum. Parents of special needs children are already facing an uphill task trying to guide & nurture their kids well. The last we want is for society to ostracize them without even giving them a chance to try to integrate into society, especially at such a raw age. And as it is, with parents like you, most , if not all special needs kids, are "already ostracized". They are not even given a chance to integrate and without this chance, they will never be close to normal like your blessed son.

Instead of pressurizing the CC to "get rid or expel" the boy, i agree with JonC that you should be addressing your concern with the CC, asking them what plans /procedures they have in place to ensure such "misunderstanding amongst the children leading to fights" does not happen again. And if you still are not satisfied with your kid sharing the same classroom with a special needs child, i guess the next best alternative is to remove your own child & make sure your child’s next CC has only normal kids who are not "nuisance"!

Let me remind you that fights amongst kids (esp boys) happens everywhere, even amongst the very normal kids … and it is all part & parcel of growing up. Parents should use this opportunity to guide their children appropriately (ie how to make up, teach them how put away such misunderstandings, to continue to forgive & be friends again …live & let live, so to speak.)

I am not saying the "nuisance kid" u so-described has no fault to play … I am just saying that just because your son fought w him, he has to be expelled? Or do you want him expelled because he is not "normal"? What if your son fought with another boy who is normal? Shall we then expel both the kids?

Singapore is a multi-racial , multi-religious country. If we can tolerate all race & religions living together harmoniously , we can tolerate special needs kids. We just have to "manage the situation positively" by addressing all areas of concern with the right level of maturity to the relevant authority (in this case, the CC).

I am sure my post will not go down well with you but i hope you can reflect on your choice of words & reflect on your attitude towards families with special needs kids. You are blessed to have a normal child - think: if your child is born with hyperactivity or any other condition, will you want parents of your child’s CC asking for your son to be expelled?

Reply to Can child care reject hyper active or dyslexia student? on Sun, 31 Jan 2010 01:26:11 GMT

jedamum — Sun, 31 Jan 2010 01:26:11 GMT

not sure about CC, but for enrichment centres, they have all the right to remove any kid due to disruption of class - read the enrolment/registration booklet for details.

instead of asking for expulsion of special needs kid, maybe you can seek the management’s opinion on how can they ensure that adequate steps are in place to ensure safety of students and that special needs and normal kids can co-exist together.
sometimes (not all times, i qualify), some hyper kids need a lot of space, have big actions and have difficulties waiting for their turn. this resulted in invading of space of normal kids eg pushing those in front in a queue. as a result, normal kids viewed such actions as hostile and retaliate. as my ds2 is on the hyper-list, he was punched in the eye by a fellow friend as a result. he has difficulty queuing up for his turn and resulted in pushing those queuing in front of him; i personally overheard the teacher warned ‘no fighting’ to have the boy answered ‘but XYZ (ie ds2) pushed me!’ as they walked down the stairs during dismissal. i am grateful that the teachers and the preschool makes the extra effort in handling my boy (the principal even assisted in handling him personally during dismissal time) and i am doing my best to ensure that he has no/less discipline/temper issues despite his activeness.
parents with special needs kid are already facing an uphill task in the parenting department, i think the least they hope for is for their kids to be accepted in mainstream education.

Reply to Can child care reject hyper active or dyslexia student? on Sat, 30 Jan 2010 16:22:37 GMT

JonC — Sat, 30 Jan 2010 16:22:37 GMT

Hyper active kids are very active and sometime beyond control.

Dyslexic kids may not be like the hyper active, their problem is they cannot read and they are controllable and some are the quite introvert just like any normal child.

Autistic is another different condition totally.

Some children may have 1 or more of the above probem together.

I think you are confused and mixed them up and generalise them as one.

I think CC if they know in advance may not accept a hyper active kids. But since he/she is here, they have no right to remove him/her too.

The only 2 choice you have is either you change to another CC or ask your kid to avoid him/her, not because of his/her condition but to avoid fighting with each other.