.zeit:

Someone from some AIDS/HIV society had spoken the other day. I lunch with some of them whenever I'm free. They are very witty and mild-mannered. Not sure if pro-REPEAL kiasuparents would allow their kids to go on overseas trips with gay teachers or let them stay overnight in camps supervised by gay coaches/instructors.

ammonite:

No need to search, can already see PDA among gay and lesbian couples along Orchard Road, no? :scratchhead: maybe you were busy catching pokemons instead? Jk, don’t :pokeeye:


I've never seen any gays showing pda in Orchard before leh. Maybe I just drive straight into the basement carpark and head straight to my stores!

You cannot ask me lah. I see so many years already. I will only say it is not quite a matter of generation or exposure, because many elderly Buddhists accept gays, lesbians and transsexuals as sentient beings on their learning journeys.

You work in the advertising/media/arts sector? I only saw that many in the UK, EU and US. Perhaps in certain districts in HK and Japan. I do not visit gay pubs in Singapore, so I don't know if my gay friends show pda. Their holiday pictures on Facebook are also quite tame!

I've always thought Buddhists are more receptive towards LGBTQ until I read the survey results released by IPS in 2014 (more than 4,100 respondents were surveyed). If you look at my Wiki table (which is based on CMF's list of Commonwealth countries), 3 with a dominant population of Buddhists too have not repealed their 377A equivalent either.

I'm not so sure if our local Buddhist Ah Mahs and Ah Gongs would frown/balk at gay pda; at most, they'll just avert their gaze?

What matters is a person’s heart and deed, not his or her gender orientation. Grandma certainly can differentiate between that and whether she wants to see any public kissing, straight and gay.

True.
Btw, many ordinary Grandmas don't shop in Orchard Road where you said one could find gays showing pda.

The authorities need to get gays to pda in Bukit Merah, Toa Payoh or Bedok where dialect-speaking Grandmas take their brekkie or practise their qigong.

For the most part, most Asian gay couples are well versed with our cultural norms and like straight couples, won’t be doing much pda in public.

OK, it's assuring for the conservatives. I'm also hoping they can be more considerate towards the majority. They need to control themselves if there are kids around, like smokers in Japan would stub out the minute they see kids walking into the eatery.

The main fear it seems is that being gay is contagious. Whenever I meet a homophobe, I tend to think that they are so straight the mere thought of gayness make them nauseous - so actually they of all people should know it is non contagious - or they had at some point in their lives flirted with or felt some same sex attraction and that scared them so much that they must beat it out of existence.

Someone from some AIDS/HIV society had spoken the other day. I lunch with some of them whenever I'm free. They are very witty and mild-mannered. Not sure if pro-REPEAL kiasuparents would allow their kids to go on overseas trips with gay teachers or let them stay overnight in camps supervised by gay coaches/instructors.

CMF:

Article raises valid considerations. Indeed, doing nothing is not the solution in the long-run.


Countries that still retain a colonial legacy. Source: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Section_377

https://i.postimg.cc/x1sWzM5X/Screenshot_2018-09-19-12-59-25-481_com.android.chrome.jpg\">

CMF:

Countries that still retain a colonial legacy. Source: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Section_377


https://i.postimg.cc/x1sWzM5X/Screenshot_2018-09-19-12-59-25-481_com.android.chrome.jpg\">

pirate:

https://www.todayonline.com/big-read/big-read-house-still-divided-over-377a-time-seek-common-ground

I agree with former AG Walter Woon.

My view is either repeal 377A, amend it or enforce it. I don't care which.

Whatever the gov's view is, if the existing law does not reflect it, it is their duty to amend the law.

Doing nothing and letting it simmer will only lead to greater polarisation down the road as both groups of vocal minorities become more strident.

floppy:

Off topic: anyone grew up gay / become gay after watching these guys?


https://image.syracuse.com/home/syr-media/width960/img/tv_impact/photo/bert-and-ernie-sesame-street-cb3c987810c9d931.jpg\">

They are based on a real-life gay couple - Sesame Street script and songwriter Mark Saltzman, and his partner, film editor Arnold Glassman. Pretty https://www.queerty.com/exclusive-bert-ernie-couple-finally-answer-20180916 (warning: reading may turn you gay).

Estéema:

Explained abv, u choose not to acknowledge. You can hide in yr own belief. It's OK. I'm thankful for the level headed majority. So not worried abt u, not wish to expand my previous time re-explaining. Btw, I've not put new words fr the source u quoted from. Que Sera Sera. Sleep well

.zeit:

ammonite:

I find that most kids do not pay attention to people around them when in the pool. But generally, i am more concerned by propriety than gender issues. I would not want pornographic magazines or manga, whether straight or gay , to be displayed openly. I think there are already laws in place for such issues.

OK, so you're thinking of propriety, but I was thinking of safety then. There are a few variants of homosexual and heterosexual males.

PDA between heterosexuals is not an offence. Nudity & lewd acts in public are. Propriety is subjective, dependent on your family's upbringing, moral values, etc.

By right, PDA between homosexuals shouldn't be an offence. But because 377A is there, many homosexual males dare not show PDA in public places. It is so vague, untidy and fuzzy that no one knows how to define 'acts of gross indecency'. Does it include PDA?

Btw, those e.gs I cited earlier are some popular social experiments to gauge society's homophobia and discrimination levels. You can search for them on youtube. Many actors 'testing water' in restaurants, tube, parks, beaches, etc.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O7X7ERVucrE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=slliR7IiAQ8

Can we accept homosexual PDAs in the presence of our dc below 18, senior citizens and staunch minorities? If the answer is yes, then we're quite ready for repeal. But keep in mind, there'll always be hardcore homophobes in our society who cannot tolerate homosexual PDAs and might resort to violence and extremism.

Estéema:

你把他人言扭曲为自论而言力。可恶

ammonite:

.zeit:

[quote=\"ammonite\"]So a male massaging a nubile female affectionately will not cause you to herd the kids away?

Will you?

pirate:

Estéema:

Hope it's less confusing.

The official position is the gov \"does not and will not enforce\" 377A.

You wanted evidence. I point you to the evidence. The Straits Times even pointed out that the same position had been taken by all three Prime Ministers.

377A is not enforced (except when there is no consent, or a minor is involved, or in public view) because the gov has decided it will not be enforced.

Everyone is entitled to their own views as to whether the gov's position is morally correct.

It is not confusing at all. I say the writer of the letter is confused because if he feels so strongly about 377A, he should be urging the gov to enforce it, and not just to keep it in the statutes book.

Estéema:

Hope it's less confusing.

zeemimi:

pirate:

The PAP government feels that S377A is a bad law. This is why they have also decided that it won't be enforced. What the PAP lacks is the moral courage to take a stand they know will lose them votes, and repeal what they already feel is a bad law.

Not enforcing the law doesn't mean it is bad. The govt just doesn't have the moral courage to enforce it.
The pink force is strong. Whatever votes they will lose by repealing 377A can easily be balanced and written off by the pink votes.

pirate:

The PAP government feels that S377A is a bad law. This is why they have also decided that it won't be enforced. What the PAP lacks is the moral courage to take a stand they know will lose them votes, and repeal what they already feel is a bad law.

pirate:

Estéema:

Please post evidence quote govt said WILL NOT BE ENFORCED.


Govt said \"lack of enforcement\", certainly does not equate to WILL NOT BE ENFORCED. :skeptical: Someone's line of discussion said NOT ENFORCED, if u look back at early postings in this thread, but careless communication render ppl putting words into govt's mouth as WILL NOT BE ENFORCED. Dont head that way. Chat & discuss & tread with responsible caution. Don't be trapped in miscomm game or mislead.

Goodnite & don't let the bugs bite.

https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/section-377a-unlike-courts-parliament-considers-public-views

Scroll down to \"But the Government does not and will not enforce 377A\".

Estéema:

Please post evidence quote govt said WILL NOT BE ENFORCED.


Govt said \"lack of enforcement\", certainly does not equate to WILL NOT BE ENFORCED. :skeptical: Someone's line of discussion said NOT ENFORCED, if u look back at early postings in this thread, but careless communication render ppl putting words into govt's mouth as WILL NOT BE ENFORCED. Dont head that way. Chat & discuss & tread with responsible caution. Don't be trapped in miscomm game or mislead.

Goodnite & don't let the bugs bite.