Abolishing Streaming in Secondary Schools: Netizens React

Reply to Abolishing Streaming in Secondary Schools: Netizens React on Tue, 19 Mar 2019 04:20:47 GMT

pokoyoko — Tue, 19 Mar 2019 04:20:47 GMT

floppy\" post_id=\"1902931\" time=\"1552725355\" user_id=\"97579:

obm\" post_id=\"1902917\" time=\"1552723219\" user_id=\"162988:
...
Why not just wait for MOE to release more information? The affected people will only take the new exam in 2027
People should just chill. Why bother with so many hypothetical scenarios

Who knows, a meteorite may hit earth next year and PSLE AL banding would be the least of our worries.

Haha that'll be a quick way to end our parenting worries.. :?:

Reply to Abolishing Streaming in Secondary Schools: Netizens React on Mon, 18 Mar 2019 15:25:27 GMT

FantasyLandDreams — Mon, 18 Mar 2019 15:25:27 GMT

In case anyone is interested to attend:

https://m.facebook.com/moesingapore/photos/a.10150100883752004/10158156891552004/?type=3&source=48

Reply to Abolishing Streaming in Secondary Schools: Netizens React on Sat, 16 Mar 2019 08:35:55 GMT

floppy — Sat, 16 Mar 2019 08:35:55 GMT

obm\" post_id=\"1902917\" time=\"1552723219\" user_id=\"162988:

...
Why not just wait for MOE to release more information? The affected people will only take the new exam in 2027

People should just chill. Why bother with so many hypothetical scenarios

Who knows, a meteorite may hit earth next year and PSLE AL banding would be the least of our worries.

Reply to Abolishing Streaming in Secondary Schools: Netizens React on Sat, 16 Mar 2019 08:00:19 GMT

obm — Sat, 16 Mar 2019 08:00:19 GMT

Your scenario of a kid laterally switching from G3 Phy to G3 Bio at the end of Sec 3: I don't think there's time to complete G3 Bio in 1 year. Very much doubt this will be recommended or approved by his school.

Under SBB, NA/NT students may be advised to drop the higher level subject(s) to NA/NT level if they cannot pass. This should be allowed after 2024 too, i.e. AL21-30 scorers can flexibly move up or move down the G123 ladder.

Read this:

“So then we are put under pressure to make sure the students who cannot pass go back to the Normal (Technical) stream where they can get an 'A', and we are pressurised to make sure the students are okay with it,” she said.

“You can have very hardworking students, but if they’re not as bright sometimes … this could be an issue.”

https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/singapore/phasing-out-streaming-in-schools-stigma-labelling-may-be-reduced-11340762

Why not just wait for MOE to release more information? The affected people will only take the new exam in 2027

Reply to Abolishing Streaming in Secondary Schools: Netizens React on Sat, 16 Mar 2019 06:28:47 GMT

phtthp — Sat, 16 Mar 2019 06:28:47 GMT

Reply to Abolishing Streaming in Secondary Schools: Netizens React on Sat, 16 Mar 2019 02:56:03 GMT

phtthp — Sat, 16 Mar 2019 02:56:03 GMT

Reply to Abolishing Streaming in Secondary Schools: Netizens React on Fri, 15 Mar 2019 02:09:49 GMT

obm — Fri, 15 Mar 2019 02:09:49 GMT

phtthp\" post_id=\"1902771\" time=\"1552575962\" user_id=\"35251:

Why they only pilot run 25 schools, so few ?

Why not pilot run majority of the schools, then come 2024, the official grand roll-out all take place ? Not enough resources ?

AL scores kick in 2021. From 2022 to 2024 the COPs stablise. They may want to monitor the progress of different AL scorers first.

So far, they said G1/G2 students (AL23-24 scorers) who 'did very well' in e.g. Eng and Math can take those subjects in G3, but have they defined 'very well' under the new AL system? Would the cut-off be AL1-AL4?

And though AL4-20 scorers are almost certainly going to take full G3, Ong also told CNA reporter that if given a chance to turn back the clock, he might consider taking Eng (or was it Geog/Hist/Lit, I cannot remember) at G2 level. That means G3 Express can also 'downgrade' to G2 subjects. Will that mean relabelling the current O-level Combined SS/Hist or SS/Geog to G2 in future?

Maybe not, because Ong said:

\"Subject-based banding will allow lower secondary school students to study more subjects at a higher level – not just English, mother tongue languages, maths and science, but also others, such as geography, history and literature, Mr Ong said.

“As it may be difficult to ascertain the level suitable for students using just their PSLE results, MOE and schools will develop guidelines and assessment mechanisms, including using Secondary 1 year-end examinations,” he added.\"

All that to-ing and fro-ing between SEAB, MOE and the Cambridge exam board over accreditation matters sure take a few years.

And before 2027, the year in which the first national G-level exam takes place, they need to sort out the devil in the details for JAE. Pretty much what some members had already mentioned a week ago.

There'll be plenty of changes after 2027. JC rankings will change again when you have G-level people with different combis entering thru JAE.

Reply to Abolishing Streaming in Secondary Schools: Netizens React on Fri, 15 Mar 2019 01:15:59 GMT

sharonkhoo — Fri, 15 Mar 2019 01:15:59 GMT

obm\" post_id=\"1902790\" time=\"1552612189\" user_id=\"162988:

I only worry for the fresh NIE graduates. Can they cope with mixed ability classes?

Hopefully in the 4 years, the current NIE students will have this included in their training. Those in-service will also be given some training in the meanwhile, I'm sure. They will be writing and revising the guidance for teachers during the pilot runs.

Reply to Abolishing Streaming in Secondary Schools: Netizens React on Fri, 15 Mar 2019 01:09:49 GMT

obm — Fri, 15 Mar 2019 01:09:49 GMT

FantasyLandDreams\" post_id=\"1902766\" time=\"1552575151\" user_id=\"105816:

Me thinks Boon Lay Secondary could be one of the 25 schools too...
For my friends who are asking, they prefer to choose the pilot run schools instead as they think these 25 pilot schools are chosen might be due to them having more experienced teachers or other resources. Plus they have younger kids in kindergarten now too and those schools would be ‘more experienced’ by then. Not sure how other folks think though.

Ok. If they plan ahead to enrol child in a primary school affiliated to a pure G3 secondary, then their kids won't need to mingle, is it? There was a mum with P5 and P6 (another Sec 2) children interviewed by ST last weekend. Not sure if you've read what she told the reporter. She has some issues with intermingling classes.

https://mothership.sg/2019/03/streaming-straits-times-prejudice-snobbish/

I think PLMGS could be one of the schools too. I saw it featured by MOE on their Facebook and on schoolbag.

If I'm not wrong, from 2020 till 2024, it's just timetabling and reorganising 3 streams into mixed ability classes. So if you enter Sec 1 next year into these 25 schools, you should find yourself in a mixed ability class, although the NA, NT classmates will still take their own papers in 2023 and O levels in 2024.

This re-timetabling process shouldn't take that long since primary schools have been doing that for a while. Perhaps they just don't want to rush through. They should 'full-SBB' another 25-30 schools in 2021, 25-30 more in 2022, etc.

The papers reported that SBB teachers have already been trained by MOE to handle multiple streams. There are allied educators to support them too. G1 might be more challenging due to behavioral issues, but they break up at staggered periods for their respective G combis. They only come together as a form class during art, music, PE, and what have you.

Senior principals are very adaptable and versatile too. For instance, Crest Secondary (a full NT school) principal could helm Raffles (a full IP+JC school).

I only worry for the fresh NIE graduates. Can they cope with mixed ability classes?

Reply to Abolishing Streaming in Secondary Schools: Netizens React on Fri, 15 Mar 2019 01:04:47 GMT

sharonkhoo — Fri, 15 Mar 2019 01:04:47 GMT

phtthp\" post_id=\"1902771\" time=\"1552575962\" user_id=\"35251:

Why they only pilot run 25 schools, so few ?

Why not pilot run majority of the schools, then come 2024, the official grand roll-out all take place ? Not enough resources ?

\"Pilot\" runs are so they can monitor closely and tweak the system as they go, while involving only a limited no. of staff and students. This will involve those who are most closely involved in setting up the system and have the most expertise. Doing it on a grand scale before the wrinkles have been ironed out would potentially be very messy.

Reply to Abolishing Streaming in Secondary Schools: Netizens React on Fri, 15 Mar 2019 00:56:50 GMT

phtthp — Fri, 15 Mar 2019 00:56:50 GMT

- duplicate

Reply to Abolishing Streaming in Secondary Schools: Netizens React on Fri, 15 Mar 2019 00:56:18 GMT

phtthp — Fri, 15 Mar 2019 00:56:18 GMT

laughingcat\" post_id=\"1902769\" time=\"1552575609\" user_id=\"3309:

But by then teachers and principals do get swop around the schools when the actual system starts to roll?

Those schools that do Not start pilot run now, when come to year 2024, they won't have experienced Tr who know how to teach the new G123 syllabus, only then MOE start to rotate (plant) Tr from experienced pilot run schools, into these non-pilot run schools ?

shouldn't be the case.

From now until 2023, Non-pilot schools also ought to ease SBB in, gradually too.
Otherwise, come 2024, P6 students (& parents) will \"siam\" Non-pilot schools, thinking inside no Experienced Tr there, know how to teach new syllabus

Reply to Abolishing Streaming in Secondary Schools: Netizens React on Thu, 14 Mar 2019 15:06:02 GMT

phtthp — Thu, 14 Mar 2019 15:06:02 GMT

Why they only pilot run 25 schools, so few ?

Why not pilot run majority of the schools, then come 2024, the official grand roll-out all take place ? Not enough resources ?

Reply to Abolishing Streaming in Secondary Schools: Netizens React on Thu, 14 Mar 2019 15:00:09 GMT

laughingcat — Thu, 14 Mar 2019 15:00:09 GMT

But by then teachers and principals do get swop around the schools when the actual system starts to roll?

Reply to Abolishing Streaming in Secondary Schools: Netizens React on Thu, 14 Mar 2019 14:52:31 GMT

FantasyLandDreams — Thu, 14 Mar 2019 14:52:31 GMT

obm\" post_id=\"1902455\" time=\"1552449572\" user_id=\"162988:

25 should include the first 12 prototype schools:

Ang Mo Kio
Bedok Green
CHIJ St Joseph's Convent
CHIJ St Theresa's Convent
Jurong Sec
Jurong West
Pei Hwa
Ping Yi
Presbyterian High
Queenstown
St Patrick's
Unity

The rest of 13 - pending, but guess may include those with CCA banding (Edgefield Sec).

Some P3-P6 parents are asking. Is it because they wish to avoid those schools, as they will be the first to undergo the changes (i.e. mixed ability classes) beginning next year?

Me thinks Boon Lay Secondary could be one of the 25 schools too:

https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/education/streaming-in-secondary-schools-to-stop-at-boon-lay-secondary-form-classes-are

For my friends who are asking, they prefer to choose the pilot run schools instead as they think these 25 pilot schools are chosen might be due to them having more experienced teachers or other resources. Plus they have younger kids in kindergarten now too and those schools would be ‘more experienced’ by then. Not sure how other folks think though.

Reply to Abolishing Streaming in Secondary Schools: Netizens React on Thu, 14 Mar 2019 14:16:26 GMT

phtthp — Thu, 14 Mar 2019 14:16:26 GMT

CHIJ Toa Payoh Secondary not one of the 25 schools, so follow the norm, change only in 2024.

Reply to Abolishing Streaming in Secondary Schools: Netizens React on Thu, 14 Mar 2019 13:21:56 GMT

janet88 — Thu, 14 Mar 2019 13:21:56 GMT

hubby told me he read somewhere chij st Theresa will be one of the pilot schools.

unfortunately, chij Toa Payoh sec will only switch in 2024.

Reply to Abolishing Streaming in Secondary Schools: Netizens React on Wed, 13 Mar 2019 05:06:20 GMT

obm — Wed, 13 Mar 2019 05:06:20 GMT

They will have to work that stress thingy out since they want everyone to finish G level in 4 years.

Probably a few years later, some G1 or G2 students might be asked to repeat Sec 4, who knows. But we know they had no problem with the first few prototype batches when their students were allowed to take their strongest subjects at a higher level. Only time will tell.

Reply to Abolishing Streaming in Secondary Schools: Netizens React on Wed, 13 Mar 2019 05:01:53 GMT

obm — Wed, 13 Mar 2019 05:01:53 GMT

phtthp\" post_id=\"1902454\" time=\"1552449186\" user_id=\"35251:

for those NA and NT students, currently studying inside these 25 Secondary pilot-run schools, anytime from now (2019) until 2023 (Total of 6 years), before actual island wide roll-out in year 2024, does it mean that they can graduate in 4 years, instead of 5 years' time, if they have been invited by the school to \"Upgrade\" and indeed they managed to upgrade successfully from G2 to G3, and from G1 to G2 ?

Inside their New Secondary school academic certificate issued, does it mean they won't print out the word, \"NA\" nor \"NT\" anymore, so that future employers (when they go out to work one day) will never know that they were once from Normal stream before ?

In contrast, those NA and NT students who have no (zero) chance to Upgrade, during these 6 years (2019 until 2023), because their Secondary schools did not participate in this pilot run, they will still continue to graduate in 5 years time and their Sec school certificate will still indicate clearly which stream they are from ?

All NA-NT-Express sec schools already have SBB.

Currently, NA/NT students will adjourn to Express classrooms for certain periods if they take O-level this or O-level that, but they are essentially still grouped in pure Normal classes (their home base).

Now they are taking a step further by reorganising everyone into the same class, e.g. 1 Happiness, progressively until 2024.

I believe come 2024, Sec 1 students (P2 now) will be able to take G123 courses and are the first to receive the new general certificate co-branded by MOE and Cambridge in 2027.

They cannot do this to the current Sec3 and Sec4 classes of the 25 pilot schools. The co-brand certification is still in the works and the rank point system for JAE isn't even out yet.

G level certificate should be the same as A level certificate with both brands printed at the top, plus detailed grades and corresponding levels H1, H2 or H3.

Employers look at the university or diploma certificate mostly.

Reply to Abolishing Streaming in Secondary Schools: Netizens React on Wed, 13 Mar 2019 04:24:05 GMT

phtthp — Wed, 13 Mar 2019 04:24:05 GMT

Reply to Abolishing Streaming in Secondary Schools: Netizens React on Wed, 13 Mar 2019 03:59:32 GMT

obm — Wed, 13 Mar 2019 03:59:32 GMT

25 should include the first 12 prototype schools:

Ang Mo Kio
Bedok Green
CHIJ St Joseph’s Convent
CHIJ St Theresa’s Convent
Jurong Sec
Jurong West
Pei Hwa
Ping Yi
Presbyterian High
Queenstown
St Patrick’s
Unity

The rest of 13 - pending, but guess may include those with CCA banding (Edgefield Sec).

Some P3-P6 parents are asking. Is it because they wish to avoid those schools, as they will be the first to undergo the changes (i.e. mixed ability classes) beginning next year?

Reply to Abolishing Streaming in Secondary Schools: Netizens React on Wed, 13 Mar 2019 03:53:06 GMT

phtthp — Wed, 13 Mar 2019 03:53:06 GMT

deardear07\" post_id=\"1902438\" time=\"1552444097\" user_id=\"1429:

FantasyLandDreams\" post_id=\"1902420\" time=\"1552437285\" user_id=\"105816:
Just did a Google search on secondary subject based banding and found that the below few schools already had some form of subject banding, some since 2014? Maybe they are the ones in the ‘25 pilot run school list’ too?

Jurong West Sec school:
https://jurongwestsec.moe.edu.sg/distinctive-at-jwss/subject-based-banding-sbb

PLMGS:
https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/singapore/subject-based-banding-gives-academic-and-social-boost-to-some-11318412

Unity and Swiss cottage Sec school:
https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/singapore/sec-1-students-in-normal-courses-performed-well-under-subject-11235574

Pei hwa / Queenstown/ Presbyterian high / Jurong Sec
https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/education/boosted-by-subject-based-banding

St Theresa convent
https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/education/scheme-allows-normal-stream-students-to-take-subjects-at-higher-level

Bedok green Sec:
https://bedokgreensec.moe.edu.sg/for-parents-students/subject-based-banding-sbb/

Hai sing catholic:
https://haisingcatholic.moe.edu.sg/qql/slot/u165/IMPORTANT%20INFORMATION/Latest%20Announcement/Subject-Based%20Banding%20Briefing%20for%20S1%20Parents%20on%2020%20Dec%202019.pdf

Pasir Ris crest:
https://prcss.moe.edu.sg/qql/slot/u200/pdf/2018%20Topics/2018%20Topics2FSkills%20to%20be%20tested%20%28EOY%29%20-%20S1.pdf

Anderson Sec:
https://andersonsec.moe.edu.sg/qql/slot/u202/News%20&%20Happenings/Sec%202%20Subject%20Briefing/2018%20Subjects%20Briefing%20NA%20Compiled.pdf

For a start, the initiative will be piloted at these secondary schools: Ang Mo Kio; Bedok Green; CHIJ St Joseph's Convent; CHIJ St Theresa's Convent; Jurong; Jurong West; Pei Hwa; Ping Yi; Presbyterian High, Queenstown; St Patrick's and Unity / mayflower:
https://ifonlysingaporeans.blogspot.com/2013/11/normal-stream-to-get-more-options.html?m=1

Chij
https://www.chijsec.edu.sg/qql/slot/u521/Parents/2019/Breakfast%20Meeting%20Secondary%201NA%20%2814%20Jan%29.PDF

Temasek Sec:
https://temaseksec.moe.edu.sg/iamtemasek/subject-based-banding

looks like a good range of schools in this pilot run! GOOD!

for those NA and NT students, currently studying inside these 25 Secondary pilot-run schools, anytime from now (2019) until 2023 (Total of 6 years), before actual island wide roll-out in year 2024, does it mean that they can graduate in 4 years, instead of 5 years' time, if they have been invited by the school to \"Upgrade\" and indeed they managed to upgrade successfully from G2 to G3, and from G1 to G2 ?

Inside their New Secondary school academic Graduation certificate issued, does it mean they won't print out the word, \"NA\" nor \"NT\" anymore, so that future employers (when they go out to work one day) will never know that they were once from Normal stream before ?

In contrast, those NA and NT students who have no (zero) chance to Upgrade, during these 6 years (2019 until 2023), because their Secondary schools did not participate in this pilot run, they will still continue to graduate in 5 years time and their Sec school certificate will still indicate clearly which stream they are from ?

Reply to Abolishing Streaming in Secondary Schools: Netizens React on Wed, 13 Mar 2019 03:34:09 GMT

obm — Wed, 13 Mar 2019 03:34:09 GMT

phtthp\" post_id=\"1902429\" time=\"1552442760\" user_id=\"35251:
Pure G3 stream, whether in dual-track IP schools (Scgs, St Nick, Cedar Girls, Catholic High, Victoria Sec ) or in Non-IP schools (eg. SAP Anglian High, Chung Cheng High, Maris Stella High, Nan Hua High, Nan Chiau High, etc) stay, no change. They are not involved in pilot run testing. Students take the new National Common Exam, instead of take GCE O level. Tr will teach them the new exam format requirement & content. Pure G3 schools don't have G12 students

Must see the annual intake of G1,G2 pupils before 'generalising' all sec schools. Do we really have that many AL21 and above scorers per year? Also, must look at the cultural demographic of this small population, if you get what I mean.