I feel yuan wang! I am misunderstood as being snobbish

Reply to I feel yuan wang! I am misunderstood as being snobbish on Sun, 14 Mar 2010 21:14:57 GMT

LOLMum — Sun, 14 Mar 2010 21:14:57 GMT

we do talk about jobs but definitely not salary. you can have a rough idea how much a person is earning especially in certain fields but that is certainly non of my concern unless he is paying my expenses :lol: .

Reply to I feel yuan wang! I am misunderstood as being snobbish on Sun, 14 Mar 2010 17:31:05 GMT

kiddo — Sun, 14 Mar 2010 17:31:05 GMT

mathsparks:
Honestly feel strange that some folks here know how much their friends' dhs earn.

My friends n I dont talk abt our hubby's salaries. We dont talk abt our salaries either. Heck, we dont care to know what job/company their husbands are in. And where I come from (perhaps another planet), it's considered how lian to tell the world how much yr income is. Dont :heresmyfish: or :torchme: , it's just my personal opinion.

And regarding havg to watch wat u say, I strongly believe in empathy for the people around u.

well said Mathsparks :hugs: i came from the same planet u just drop in from the spaceship :rotflmao:

Empathy we need a loads loads and loads esp in SG as we progress where many may have been left behind through no fault of theirs.....

let just be friends and keep others issue out esp the materially unless real necessary ..... :lol:

Reply to I feel yuan wang! I am misunderstood as being snobbish on Sat, 13 Mar 2010 06:14:55 GMT

mathsparks — Sat, 13 Mar 2010 06:14:55 GMT

Honestly feel strange that some folks here know how much their friends' dhs earn.

My friends n I dont talk abt our hubby's salaries. We dont talk abt our salaries either. Heck, we dont care to know what job/company their husbands are in. And where I come from (perhaps another planet), it's considered how lian to tell the world how much yr income is. Dont :heresmyfish: or :torchme: , it's just my personal opinion.

And regarding havg to watch wat u say, I strongly believe in empathy for the people around u.

Reply to I feel yuan wang! I am misunderstood as being snobbish on Fri, 12 Mar 2010 15:34:43 GMT

mocharita — Fri, 12 Mar 2010 15:34:43 GMT

kaitlynangelica:
Anybody ever felt that way?

Today I was talking to my colleague over lunch. Suddenly she turned round to me and said that I will never understand a family's difficulty of not being able to pay fees. I told her point blank that I was personally very offended. Yes I may have grown up in a more privileged family. Is that my fault? Is it snobbish of me to have sent my child to an elite school in Bukit Timah? Is it wrong of me to talk about enrichment classes? Was it a crime to have had a slightly better childhood financially? does it mean I have to please others all the time, watch my back and think twice about everything I say? Life will be awfully tiring right? And is it wrong to share that my parents are educated, graduates to be exact. I am not doing exactly well myself. I had my fair share of emotional hardships growing up as well.

Just ranting..............I felt so hurt when Ms xxx said that I had a way of making her feel like thrash.

I take pride that I am a well brought-up person, parents having thought me the value of money and made sure that I knew poverty existed.

Well, admit to her that you will never understand a family’s difficulties. Simply, and honestly you didn’t come from an under privileged family. You don’t have to please anyone, all you need is to be sensitive towards the less privileged by giving less of your opinions because they will not believe your opinions in the first place since they already see you as ‘upper’ than them. Tough, I know., but what to do, that’s the way they chose to think. You can’t make everyone happy about themselves, right??!? As long as you don’t belittle them (God forbids), they can feel little all they want because of their tiny egos. Little people like to make bigger people feel guilty of their size. Don’t fall for it. As long as you don’t belittle those who under you, envy but not jealous of those above you, you will be A-Okay!

Reply to I feel yuan wang! I am misunderstood as being snobbish on Fri, 12 Mar 2010 09:12:46 GMT

kaitlynangelica — Fri, 12 Mar 2010 09:12:46 GMT

:shock: My circle of friends (all SAHM) are made up of different background. My DH makes 17k monthly, I have friends whose DH make more than 20k, 10k, 6k and below 3k. I do not see any problem mixing with either group. I mean, friends are friends cos we have certain chemistry isn't it? I guess it is simply about how we can be more sensitive so as not to let any party feel being put down. Of course the topics that we talk about differs. With the group of friends that are doing quite well, we discuss about the latest bag that we have and the places we would like to visit during the holidays. With the group that are doing just decently, we do not touch on the same topics. I really do not think it matters. There are definitely more things that we look out for when befriending people.

I can sense that you really feel wronged. Guess I do understand how you feel. What about you put yourself into your friend's shoes? There she is struggling quite a bit with her life whilst listening to you sharing with her how well things are over your side. Definitely no wrong on your part. It is just that it may not go down well on her at this very moment. Since you mentioned she is a close friend of yours, I think we must have the faith that she does feel happy for you that things are looking bright over your side. It is just that she may be totally drained off by her problems at this moment. Does it help you to feel better?[/quote]

Beautiful life,

Don't get me wrong. I have friends from all walks of life too. What I meant was we have to be careful about what topics we talk about with diff ppl. But seriously, I didn't think this person was doing too badly. Def not like those families in \"Life Transformers\".

Reply to I feel yuan wang! I am misunderstood as being snobbish on Fri, 12 Mar 2010 09:12:34 GMT

kaitlynangelica — Fri, 12 Mar 2010 09:12:34 GMT

BeautifulLife:
:shock: My circle of friends (all SAHM) are made up of different background. My DH makes 17k monthly, I have friends whose DH make more than 20k, 10k, 6k and below 3k. I do not see any problem mixing with either group. I mean, friends are friends cos we have certain chemistry isn't it? I guess it is simply about how we can be more sensitive so as not to let any party feel being put down. Of course the topics that we talk about differs. With the group of friends that are doing quite well, we discuss about the latest bag that we have and the places we would like to visit during the holidays. With the group that are doing just decently, we do not touch on the same topics. I really do not think it matters. There are definitely more things that we look out for when befriending people.

I can sense that you really feel wronged. Guess I do understand how you feel. What about you put yourself into your friend's shoes? There she is struggling quite a bit with her life whilst listening to you sharing with her how well things are over your side. Definitely no wrong on your part. It is just that it may not go down well on her at this very moment. Since you mentioned she is a close friend of yours, I think we must have the faith that she does feel happy for you that things are looking bright over your side. It is just that she may be totally drained off by her problems at this moment. Does it help you to feel better?

Beautiful life,

Don't get me wrong. I have friends from all walks of life too. What I meant was u have to be careful about what topics u talk about with diff ppl. But seriously, I didn't think this person was doing too badly. Def not like those families in \"Life Transformers\".

Reply to I feel yuan wang! I am misunderstood as being snobbish on Thu, 11 Mar 2010 15:53:01 GMT

auntieM — Thu, 11 Mar 2010 15:53:01 GMT

Hi tutormum,

She busy with TV drama DVD ,SPA and shares lar.
Same same, I don't like to compare...and my DH is the 'howlian' one!
I literally got to kick his leg under table to stop him from yakking away!

Reply to I feel yuan wang! I am misunderstood as being snobbish on Thu, 11 Mar 2010 14:49:14 GMT

tutormum — Thu, 11 Mar 2010 14:49:14 GMT

auntieM:
Hi kaitlynangelica,

To answer your questions....
She's jealous cause my DH is more successful than hers.
She wanted to try putting her DS in a better school together with her Taitai friends but her hubby said no.....now those taitai :siam: her.
She left her kids to the 2 maids at home and they turn out kinda problematic.....Thus having problem at school.
So my son having fun at P1 didn't go well with her...

It's good to be able to rant here

:!: :!: What does she do everyday? I'll give anything to have 2 maids in the house so that I can spend all my time with my kids. Well, I never compare how successful or failure DH is compared to my friends' DH. :roll: In fact, I don't compare with anybody at all. ren bi ren qi si ren. My motto is: to be happy with what I have. I won't die having less and won't prolong my life if I have more. DH is more materialistic and likes to show off. I always tell him that no matter how big a house he lives in, he always sleep on a bed every night.

Reply to I feel yuan wang! I am misunderstood as being snobbish on Thu, 11 Mar 2010 12:00:30 GMT

Blobbi — Thu, 11 Mar 2010 12:00:30 GMT

BeautifulLife:

... friends are friends cos we have certain chemistry isn't it? I guess it is simply about how we can be more sensitive so as not to let any party feel being put down. ...I really do not think it matters. There are definitely more things that we look out for when befriending people.

Completely agree with you, BeautifulLife.

Reply to I feel yuan wang! I am misunderstood as being snobbish on Thu, 11 Mar 2010 05:17:22 GMT

auntieM — Thu, 11 Mar 2010 05:17:22 GMT

Her hubby just want a nearby school leh…

They are doing very well, but bochap SAHM with 2 maids that gets changed every few months is not good for the kids…
The couple have frequent fights too

Reply to I feel yuan wang! I am misunderstood as being snobbish on Thu, 11 Mar 2010 05:10:41 GMT

kaitlynangelica — Thu, 11 Mar 2010 05:10:41 GMT

auntieM:
Hi kaitlynangelica,

To answer your questions....
She's jealous cause my DH is more successful than hers.
She wanted to try putting her DS in a better school together with her Taitai friends but her hubby said no.....now those taitai :siam: her.
She left her kids to the 2 maids at home and they turn out kinda problematic.....Thus having problem at school.
So my son having fun at P1 didn't go well with her...

It's good to be able to rant here

why did hubby say no?

If they got two maids, can't be doing that badly right? I don't think leaving them to the maids means they will turn out problematice.

Oh well...........................

Reply to I feel yuan wang! I am misunderstood as being snobbish on Thu, 11 Mar 2010 04:45:15 GMT

auntieM — Thu, 11 Mar 2010 04:45:15 GMT

Hi kaitlynangelica,

To answer your questions....
She's jealous cause my DH is more successful than hers.
She wanted to try putting her DS in a better school together with her Taitai friends but her hubby said no.....now those taitai :siam: her.
She left her kids to the 2 maids at home and they turn out kinda problematic.....Thus having problem at school.
So my son having fun at P1 didn't go well with her...

It's good to be able to rant here

Reply to I feel yuan wang! I am misunderstood as being snobbish on Thu, 11 Mar 2010 03:36:54 GMT

kaitlynangelica — Thu, 11 Mar 2010 03:36:54 GMT

[quote]I can sense that you really feel wronged. Guess I do understand how you feel. What about you put yourself into your friend's shoes? There she is struggling quite a bit with her life whilst listening to you sharing with her how well things are over your side. Definitely no wrong on your part. It is just that it may not go down well on her at this very moment. Since you mentioned she is a close friend of yours, I think we must have the faith that she does feel happy for you that things are looking bright over your side. It is just that she may be totally drained off by her problems at this moment. Does it help you to feel better?[/quote]

Guess I feel wronged because I feel that my integrity is being questioned. She is definitely not living in poverty la. In fact, she is rather unusual in that she is very simple, not interested in career progression but at the same time hopes to give the best to her kids. At the same time, she doesn't want to be stressed at work in order to command a higher pay. So when we talk about kid's enrichment ( that was what triggered the whole thing ), she feels threatened and it comes across as braggy. Oh well, will just stay out of her way for a while then.

Reply to I feel yuan wang! I am misunderstood as being snobbish on Thu, 11 Mar 2010 03:28:21 GMT

BeautifulLife — Thu, 11 Mar 2010 03:28:21 GMT

Kaitlynangelica,

Actually after this incident.I think I have learnt a lesson. To put it bluntly, 'rich and poor' cannot go together. BeautifulLife, since your husband is doing so well, better for you to hang around ppl with whose husbands are in the same pay range so that you can discuss similar things and don't have to keep on thinking twice about everything u say.[/quote]

:shock: My circle of friends (all SAHM) are made up of different background. My DH makes 17k monthly, I have friends whose DH make more than 20k, 10k, 6k and below 3k. I do not see any problem mixing with either group. I mean, friends are friends cos we have certain chemistry isn't it? I guess it is simply about how we can be more sensitive so as not to let any party feel being put down. Of course the topics that we talk about differs. With the group of friends that are doing quite well, we discuss about the latest bag that we have and the places we would like to visit during the holidays. With the group that are doing just decently, we do not touch on the same topics. I really do not think it matters. There are definitely more things that we look out for when befriending people.

I can sense that you really feel wronged. Guess I do understand how you feel. What about you put yourself into your friend's shoes? There she is struggling quite a bit with her life whilst listening to you sharing with her how well things are over your side. Definitely no wrong on your part. It is just that it may not go down well on her at this very moment. Since you mentioned she is a close friend of yours, I think we must have the faith that she does feel happy for you that things are looking bright over your side. It is just that she may be totally drained off by her problems at this moment. Does it help you to feel better?

Reply to I feel yuan wang! I am misunderstood as being snobbish on Thu, 11 Mar 2010 03:19:37 GMT

Funz — Thu, 11 Mar 2010 03:19:37 GMT

If the person has a chip on his/her shoulder, most things that you say or do may be construed as being snobbish or hao lian.

I have been in these situations many times. If you answer truthfully, they say so boastful, if you give non-committal answers they say why pretend to be so qian xu, if you bluff and eventually the truth comes out, they say you insult them. No winning.

Think in one of my other posts I mentioned that I unknowingly offended my sis with a comment about how I get irritated when I see kids wearing grossly oversized uniforms. The retort I got was not everyone can afford a new set of uniform for their kids every 6mths ok. You think everyone like you ah, buy clothes that fits your kids now, wear once or twice, cannot wear give away. On and on she went.

My advise to my younger sis to do a complete reno of her new house instead of bare minimum first to save cost and trouble did not sit too well with her. Her reply was I am not like you hor, money lying around to do major reno. My offer to lend her money for her reno so she doesn’t have to incurr interest also got rebuffed. Her reply, this bit of interest she can afford.

Even with family, I blunder into such situations. What more with friends. My solution, when their hackles are raised, I’ll just keep quiet. After the emotions are settled then I will tell them I did not mean to offend them and that their reaction was hurtful. But sometimes my hotheadedness will rise and I will tell them off right in their faces.

Reply to I feel yuan wang! I am misunderstood as being snobbish on Thu, 11 Mar 2010 02:59:33 GMT

kaitlynangelica — Thu, 11 Mar 2010 02:59:33 GMT

Blobbi:
kaitlynangelica:
...but I don't know where else to rant if not for KSP.

You can count on my ears, hon!! :snuggles:

BeautifulLife, now that you mentioned it, I remember that of course I've had my fair share, aiyo. :oops: :oops: But we all still have our respective friends, so maybe we aren't doing too badly :celebrate: .

True.........But as the years go by, the number of friends get less and less. Actually after this incident.I think I have learnt a lesson. To put it bluntly, 'rich and poor' cannot go together. BeautifulLife, since your husband is doing so well, better for you to hang around ppl with whose husbands are in the same pay range so that you can discuss similar things and don't have to keep on thinking twice about everything u say.

Reply to I feel yuan wang! I am misunderstood as being snobbish on Thu, 11 Mar 2010 02:57:13 GMT

BeautifulLife — Thu, 11 Mar 2010 02:57:13 GMT

Blobbi,

Really? So it is common to make such blunders? I feel more 'phew' knowing that. I felt real bad and do wonder why I can be so insensitive at times.
And yes, I have a few wonderful friends who really know me inside-out and they believe I am not the 'how-lian' type

Reply to I feel yuan wang! I am misunderstood as being snobbish on Thu, 11 Mar 2010 02:45:12 GMT

Blobbi — Thu, 11 Mar 2010 02:45:12 GMT

kaitlynangelica:
...but I don't know where else to rant if not for KSP.

You can count on my ears, hon!! :snuggles:

BeautifulLife, now that you mentioned it, I remember that of course I've had my fair share, aiyo. :oops: :oops: But we all still have our respective friends, so maybe we aren't doing too badly :celebrate: .

Reply to I feel yuan wang! I am misunderstood as being snobbish on Thu, 11 Mar 2010 02:44:39 GMT

BeautifulLife — Thu, 11 Mar 2010 02:44:39 GMT

Kaitlynangelica,

Thanks for believing in me
I feel that no matter what our intentions and reasons are, how our family background is, we do have to spare a thought and be sensible to people around us. My DH is sooo much more tactful and mature than me. He told me to be more aware and sensitive to less well-to-do families around us and not simply speak my mind.

For the 1st blunder that I shared about husands' income, after the lesson learnt, I come to know that there are many SAHM whose husbands do not earn much but yet they choose to be SAHM cos they love spending time and nurturing their kids. I :salute: them cos they are willing to give up the luxury of having more money.

Reply to I feel yuan wang! I am misunderstood as being snobbish on Thu, 11 Mar 2010 02:22:06 GMT

kaitlynangelica — Thu, 11 Mar 2010 02:22:06 GMT

BeautifulLife:
Hi Blobbi,

Personally, I do watch it. Some people don't realize the impact of what they say, and there is no ill will on her part.

You are sooo right. Nowadays, I do watch out.I had made few blunders. Which, without the direct response from these recipients (I thank them for letting me know), I wouldn't have known that what I said and how I said it doesn't go down very well on some people.
The blunders that I have so foolishly made are:-

- We (both SAHM) were chatting about household income. She asked me to guess her DH's monthly income. Without thinking, I said \" To be SAHM, think husbands do make at least $12k monthly.\" :stupid: YES!! that was how insensitive I was. I don't know why but believe me, I wasn't in the least trying to be boastful. I just....I really thought her DH and mine are around the same range.

- My friend asked if I have anyone wanting to sell off piano. She said xyz thinking of getting 1 for her ds. I asked her \" Isn't xyz's ds the 1 who is gifted in piano? and that boy is now in grade 2, why didn't she get it for her ds earlier?\" I was geinuinely puzzled cos I thought the mum should have gotten him the piano since he is gifted in that area. My friend said, \"but his family is not well-to-do. can't really afford piano\" :stupid: :stupid: I apologised to my friend profusely for my insensitivity.

- 3 mums from my ds p2 class were chatting about their chinese teacher. I commented that the teacher is really good cos my ds doesn't need to learn his weekly tingxie, the teacher must have drilled them well during lesson. 1 of the mums said flatly \" I don't think the teacher is that great. My ds has to learn his tingxie a week in advance and still get 80+ each week\" I really kicked myself hard. Why? Why?

I can swear to everyone that I don't mean to be boastful and that I am just speaking my mind. But I don't think it is right for me to think that is a valid reason for me to speak my mind so insensitively. I do admit that we should mince our words in certain situation. Not so much about being a hypocrite, but just simply be more sensitive to people. I am now constantly reminding myself. and am glad so far I have not made the same blunder. God Bless!

BeautifulLife,

About the hubby's income yes I agree you shouldn't have said that. If your husband's pay is $12k, i can tell you most men do not even reach 75% of that. But I guess its to do with your social circle. Maybe most of your friend's have hubby's who are doing so well so you kina assumed that its normal for all husbands to have that pay range.

About the piano, I don't blame you. True I would have wondered how the boy managed to get by without one.

As for the chinese teacher bit, don't worry. I don't think the mother would have flared up at you. Perhaps your son could click better with the teacher?

Reply to I feel yuan wang! I am misunderstood as being snobbish on Thu, 11 Mar 2010 02:14:35 GMT

BeautifulLife — Thu, 11 Mar 2010 02:14:35 GMT

Hi Blobbi,

Personally, I do watch it. Some people don't realize the impact of what they say, and there is no ill will on her part.

You are sooo right. Nowadays, I do watch out.I had made few blunders. Which, without the direct response from these recipients (I thank them for letting me know), I wouldn't have known that what I said and how I said it doesn't go down very well on some people.
The blunders that I have so foolishly made are:-

- We (both SAHM) were chatting about household income. She asked me to guess her DH's monthly income. Without thinking, I said \" To be SAHM, think husbands do make at least $12k monthly.\" :stupid: YES!! that was how insensitive I was. I don't know why but believe me, I wasn't in the least trying to be boastful. I just....I really thought her DH and mine are around the same range.

- My friend asked if I have anyone wanting to sell off piano. She said xyz thinking of getting 1 for her ds. I asked her \" Isn't xyz's ds the 1 who is gifted in piano? and that boy is now in grade 2, why didn't she get it for her ds earlier?\" I was geinuinely puzzled cos I thought the mum should have gotten him the piano since he is gifted in that area. My friend said, \"but his family is not well-to-do. can't really afford piano\" :stupid: :stupid: I apologised to my friend profusely for my insensitivity.

- 3 mums from my ds p2 class were chatting about their chinese teacher. I commented that the teacher is really good cos my ds doesn't need to learn his weekly tingxie, the teacher must have drilled them well during lesson. 1 of the mums said flatly \" I don't think the teacher is that great. My ds has to learn his tingxie a week in advance and still get 80+ each week\" I really kicked myself hard. Why? Why?

I can swear to everyone that I don't mean to be boastful and that I am just speaking my mind. But I don't think it is right for me to think that is a valid reason for me to speak my mind so insensitively. I do admit that we should mince our words in certain situation. Not so much about being a hypocrite, but just simply be more sensitive to people. I am now constantly reminding myself. and am glad so far I have not made the same blunder. God Bless!

Reply to I feel yuan wang! I am misunderstood as being snobbish on Thu, 11 Mar 2010 01:46:44 GMT

kaitlynangelica — Thu, 11 Mar 2010 01:46:44 GMT

[quote]Personally, I do watch it. Although how great your childhood was should be kosher what. Not like you can help it. Maybe take it in stride. If you view her as a friend, just let it slide. Some people don't realize the impact of what they say, and there is no ill will on her part.

[jmho][/quote]Yes I do watch what I say but IMHO, I don't think I am unreasonable. I have always been in the front-line doing sales. Maybe thats why I am a little bit more outspoken. Ever since I switched to do back-room/admin work, I have found that the ppl are vastly different. Sorry if I am offending anyone here but this is a forum so I will just say what I feel like saying. Ppl who have spent a large part of their life doing admin/back-office tend to be more calculative, narrow-minded and sensitive. Oh goodness I am so rude here but I don't know where else to rant if not for KSP.

Reply to I feel yuan wang! I am misunderstood as being snobbish on Thu, 11 Mar 2010 01:32:24 GMT

Blobbi — Thu, 11 Mar 2010 01:32:24 GMT

kaitlynangelica:
And Blobbi , what is wrong with carrying branded bags as long as u don't force it down other ppl's throats.

:celebrate: :celebrate: :celebrate:

kaitlynangelica:
Jedamum, I might as well live as a reculse if I have to think about everything I say.

Personally, I do watch it. Although how great your childhood was should be kosher what. Not like you can help it. Maybe take it in stride. If you view her as a friend, just let it slide. Some people don't realize the impact of what they say, and there is no ill will on her part.

[jmho]

Reply to I feel yuan wang! I am misunderstood as being snobbish on Thu, 11 Mar 2010 01:12:39 GMT

kaitlynangelica — Thu, 11 Mar 2010 01:12:39 GMT

Gosh…I didn’t expect to get any replies from my little rant.

To put things in perspective, me and Mrs XXxx have been good friends and so I didn’t expect her to be so sensitive. For eg, when I heard that one of my friends spends $3k a month on sending her two kids off for tuition, it didn’t affect me. I just feel that well, u can afford it so good for u. Likewise, I have another friend who has 3 boys and has a driver to fetch them around. I don’t get affected either…just a little amused because I didn’t know that chauffeurs still existed these days.

I guess the one thing I can say is that Mrs Xxxxxx has a different social circle. I think she is less surrounded by such ‘successful’ ppl and so such things surprise her. So by talking about them, she thinks that I am envying them.

But on hindsight now, I have always had this problem. Indeed, I was quite priviledged as a child. By the time I was 12, I got to travel to Disneyland. I had elaborate birthday parties till the age of 6 which was quite unheard of at that time. Both my parents are graduates from the University of Singapore and speak fluent English. As a result, there were able to guide me very well right until university. But on the other side of the coin, I am proud to say that they are also very simple and down to earth. Ever since I was a little gal they have brought me to one-room flats whenever the church gave out white gifts. My parents will not buy branded bags either. They are extremely thrifty. But the one things they have always emphacised is to read a lot and broadedn my horizons which I am grateful for. Similarly, they are highly encouraging if I like to send my daughter for enrichment classes because they see the value of education.

So is it wrong for me to mention on a by the way basis what happened during my childhood? With this person, I just realised that even mentioning about buying insurance for dd’s education in the future made her feel not good because she didn’t see the need to do so. She is amazed that fear of financial instability stopped me from trying for a child earlier. But i think differently. Can’t bring myself to ‘dui bu qi’ my gal by not giving her the best in terms of education. And I will not like some other ppl, recycle their kid’s ang paos. I just think its not right to rob your children. Sorry thats how I feel.

And Blobbi , what is wrong with carrying branded bags as long as u don’t force it down other ppl’s throats.

AunteM, why should your DH cousins’ wife get jealous? After all they didn’t even try at all so whats the problem? And what is wrong with saying that Ds is having fun at school?

Jedamum, I might as well live as a reculse if I have to think about everything I say.