Nebbermind:

I donch remember any report about the parents' wish

Like I said, I don't expect anyone here to know because it was NEVER in reports. The parents did not want the reports to exist in the first place; why would they go out of their way to publish their wish for the information be kept away from the press? That kinda goes against what they want from the get go.

I found out from my school. They told us not to talk to reporters and post on social media, the like.

kamom:

I post a question because like what I said, I do not read the Chinese papers. ST choose not to publish such news (this isn't the first) and I have no idea what were the instruction from his parents. This, I got from Dr Ang's FB. If you all know Dr Ang, he is a psychiatrist by profession.


Suicide among the young is getting very serious these days. (Read ST 6/9/13). As a parent, I need to know the reason, look out for signs and intervene. If we don't do it, then who? I do not have kids from NUSH, will the school release information to a stranger? If they do, the school will be a concern. Looking thru the posts, I do not see any generalisation that it was due to stress from studies.
[quote]its sad news... but is our education system really that bad?

is a question. It is not a generalisation.

Of course, discussing will not bring back the deceased but it will help the living from going the same way.

@lifeislikethat, I cannot change your perception towards people who post such question. I just need to know my intention and I need not have your approval. Your perception comes from your life's experiences. Likewise, for mine.

For me, life is not like that, it MUST always be better! :celebrate:[/quote]Yes, I see where you are coming from. My point was you could approach the school for the official version of facts; they aren't going to release everything to you ofc, so no worries. Yes, the official version is glossed over, but since the information is withheld from the media the media's version has no guarantee. That's one problem I had a problem with everyone discussing the media's version.

Yes, we need to discuss the issues about rising suicide trends and the reasons behind it and understand the cause behind it as well. A wise man learns from his own mistakes and other's mistakes. If that was your intention, I still suggest you delete this thread and create a thread where you discuss suicides among kids/teens in general. While you may be asking about the reasons with a good intention, imagine what it is like for the parents if they read this thread and see people analyzing why their son committed suicide. From their POV, it seems like everyone is trying to find fault with their parenting no? Besides, finding out what happened about one cases hardly makes it applicable to your own life and child, who is unique and different in his or her own way. Seeing the general trend in suicide is more helpful to you and won't seem like you are bashing the victim's parents. Isn't that a better choice? (In fact, there is already a thread about children suicide)

You don't need my permission/approval to post this question, ofc you don't. But if the parents have explicitly stated that they don't want this in the social media (any form of media actually), THEN yes you do need their permission/approval. I know you probably weren't aware of the parent's requests which was the original intention of my reply: to inform you. Yes, it turned into an unwarranted rant and my apologies for that. He was my levelmate and having ppl speculate about the causes resulting his death kinda pissed me off.

But I disagree that ppl did not assume it was due to education stress. The fact that someone asked the question off-the-bat, w/o evidence, shows there is a subconscious assumption. It may be a question but also a generalization.

I would love to debate about the suicide issue in a general thread. But please don't dissect one particular case and hurt everyone involved. It won't help anyone. Discussing in general WILL make life better

kamom:

Anyone saw this news? I don't read Chinese papers. Can someone tell me what happened? Thanks

Can you PLEASE just delete this thread? His parents specifically requested for it to not be leaked to the media and social media and they hope this news will blow over quickly. You want more information? Well then, just go ask the school. It might take you more effort than mindless gossiping on the internet but hey, you'll get the actual facts. Dissecting the possible reasons why he did so won't help him and will just hurt his family.

On a side note to everyone: it wasn't really due to school stress. It frankly amuses me how everyone immediately concludes that if a student from a top school committed suicide, hey it must be school stress and proceeds to rant about the education system. We have lives too okay, we have more aspects to our lives than just mugging. YOU guys have NO clue what happened so don't jump to conclusions. Thanks a lot.

concern2:

Nebbermind:

[quote=\"Sun_2010\"]

More reasons
The perspective of children also differ. For some 4 worksheets of homework is little work, some may feel it is a lot of work..
some are perfectionists - will take extra time and effort to submit a very good piece of work. For some neatness is not in their top 10 priorities ...

Like going thru the same question using different heuristic and making sure the answers are absolute correct?

You gotta point there, Nebbermind.

Some kiddos, after going through rigorous mental arithmetic training are able to perform the entire problem sum in their head and giving the final correct answer without working. Why can't it be accepted and must do up the working leh?[/quote]The teacher still needs to look at the working to see if the child has gotten the fundamental concept correct. When I was in P4, I used a wrong method for one problem sum in the Math exam, but I copied one of the values from the question wrongly and by pure coincidence, my answer was correct. If I hadn't written down my working, my teacher would not have known I totally misunderstood the question. Writing down the method also reinforces the concept for the children.

Oh and also, it trains the child's ability to write down detailed workings. I know your point is that if the child can get the final answer, he already knows how to do it and does not need to waste time writing down the steps. But at upper level, we may not have questions where there is a final answer per se, like proving. When you answer a proving question, you don't have a numerical answer in the end, your answer is the method of deriving one expression from the other. If you skip steps in a proving question, the teacher can only award you partial marks because your answer itself is essentially incomplete. So if the child does not have the habit of writing down explicit working, it may adversely affect him/her later on when it is harder to \"break out\" of a mindset.

Well, at least it is solved amicably....

http://www.todayonline.com/singapore/no-wigs-st-margarets-five-education-minister

SAHM_TAN:

lifeislikethat:

[quote=\"SAHM_TAN\"]

Eye opener. DHS allow the girls to attend school bald.

Just curious. Was the school one of the places that host the event ? I knew previous yrs, not sure which yr, one of the boys' school had the event held on their premise.

Actually, it isn't that odd for a school to support Hair for Hope (even for girls). I have had seniors participate in the program and they went to school bald without any problems with the principal and from what I hear from my friends, their schools approve as well. In fact, St Margaret's Secondary is the first school I've heard of that DISapproves, which is partially why I found the incident shocking.

I know a few schools that supported the cause and are satellite locations for the event. The schools that I know are boys' schools though.

Was your school one of the satellite locations too?[/quote]No, I don't think so.

SAHM_TAN:

Augmum:

[quote=\"Dora1\"]I know the girls agreed to wear a wig so they should keep their promise. However, why did the principal require them to wear a wig in the first place?

If the agreement was made prior to the action taken, then i would say that the girls have to honour and abide by it....

But .... i fail to fully understand as to WHY would the principal required or insisted that they have to wear a wig in the first place ??
i believe she jolly knows well that by doing so....it defeats the purpose of the awareness of the Hair for hope charity event....
As regards to her reply that she is worried that what if EVERY of her girls come to sch with bald heads.....
For this, i found it amusing..... :scratchhead:
Come on..how many young girls would view bladness as a fashion trend and wanna to follow suit?

As for gal's sch, DHS....a govt sec sch.....
i was told that there are a total of 9 girls .....20 or more boys and few teachers ....
who had shaven their hair in support of this charity event....
The sch officially supports this meaningful event ....
Thanksfully....the P does not regard a girl's bladness to unfemininity.....

Eye opener. DHS allow the girls to attend school bald.

Just curious. Was the school one of the places that host the event ? I knew previous yrs, not sure which yr, one of the boys' school had the event held on their premise.[/quote]Actually, it isn't that odd for a school to support Hair for Hope (even for girls). I have had seniors participate in the program and they went to school bald without any problems with the principal and from what I hear from my friends, their schools approve as well. In fact, St Margaret's Secondary is the first school I've heard of that DISapproves, which is partially why I found the incident shocking.

looking4Tutor:

Lifeislikethat, I'm impressed by your logical argument. At 15 you articulate very well. I really have faith in your generation.

Thanks a lot haha. At least someone doesn't think I'm wasting my time or thinking too highly of myself.

Daddy

looking4Tutor:

Lifeislikethat, I'm impressed by your logical argument. At 15 you articulate very well. I really have faith in your generation.

Clone account?
Got time to write so much... No need to study ah?
Internet is serious business.
难道是当事人?

Okay, now you have given me a LOT to talk about. I don't know what's a clone account so I won't comment on that.

So, apparently, I have time to write so much. Let me break it down for you. Let's says it takes me 3 secs on average to type a word (I'm really slow at typing). So that's 20 words a minute and 800 words in 40 minutes. With 40 minutes of typing alone, it takes me 50 minutes to type a post. WOW that is SO MUCH time. Don't bother telling me I am sanctimonious now. Yes, I realise. Yes, that's on purpose.

I don't need to study? Then, I believe our definition of study is different. To me, when I try to analyse an article and write an essay about it, it is a form of learning and also studying because you are studying issues that are going around you. It puzzles me when people post in other topic about trying to get their children's English to improve by buying them heaps of books and ordering the newspaper. It doesn't matter if you don't actually think about it critically and form your own opinions. So, sorry, I'm not going to go mug that hydrogen bonding is stronger that London Dispersion forces. I'm not going to mug like that day in and day out, it frankly cramps my style. If I remember right, it is because in hydrogen bonding, the hydrogen atom has an exposed positive nucleus that attracts a lone pair from a highly electronegative atom hence is stronger than London Dispersion forces where the movement of electrons causes temporary partial charges to be formed between non-polar molecules thus having temporary weak forces of attraction. So, I can also study without mugging and trying to develop my critical thinking skills instead, and I don't need someone to tell me I'm not studying or 'fulfilling my responsibilities as a child' simply because I choose to post my POV.

Oh and lastly the thing you said in Chinese. I would appreciate it if you could type in English so I don't need to bother my friends to translate for me (Google translate failed BIG TIME). From what I gather, you were asking that I was the girl involved in the case. Just because I have a different point of view doesn't mean you can dismiss it by claiming that I am just a bitter teenager involved in the case that cannot provide an unbiased view. Well, if that's the case, I could claim that 3boys' wife is the principal and that's why he is relentlessly supporting her. (Just an example, I don't actually think that)

btw, I would appreciate it if you could tell me what is a clone account. Thanks.

I really don't see why I appear self-righteous and I'm going to clarify this. I may be making a mountain out of a molehill but sanctimony and hypocrisy are qualities I hate, so being called sanctimonious is a double whammy to me.


My stand is pretty much the same as yours. The principal had every right to get the girls to wear wigs since they had a deal previously. While I disagree with the principal requiring the girls to promise that they would wear wigs, a deal was formed and needs to be upheld. When I first heard about what happened, I agreed with the principal.

Then I read the Straits Times article.

I find the reasoning that other girls would follow suit pathetic. I think that the bald hair style (or lack thereof) fits what I think is the school dress code policy strives for: to be prim and proper. Is that sanctimonious on my part? Oh, and about the school assembly idea. I was not saying that the principal should take every idea a student brings up to her and turn it into a school-wide project. I was saying it was a possibility in this case given her cause of concern was that others would follow suit as a new fashion. I just thought this way she could give the girls a chance to do what they want and while others would follow suit, she could make then follow with good intentions. Maybe that's too idealistic, I don't know. As a 15-year-old, I don't see the seniors in my school who went bald 'negatively' influencing others, the quotation marks because I personally don't see the why it's deemed bad. Most of us came to know about Hair for Hope through asking them. When someone in our school comes up with a reasonable idea, the school usually makes provisions for it and even extends it to the school. For instance, some of the seniors wanted to start an OCIP (overseas CIP) and the school supported them and allowed them to make it a school-wide event by giving us a presentation during assembly and setting up a booth in the canteen for us (the other students) to buy hand-made merchandise so as to collect money for the help they wanted to provide the kids overseas. I thought this was a damn good initiative and I mean if I see my principal doing this, can you blame me from expecting more from Ms Marion Tan?

I don't agree with her reasoning but I really find her other comments offensive. She could have said that the school requires them to wear wigs as it does not comply with the school policy. She just needed to say that the rules had been broken; they are merely enforcing the rules. Simple. But no, she just had to go on and support her stance with archaic 18th century reasoning instead, claiming bald heads are a punk, unfeminine and sloppy hairstyle and that they would not cause a proper turnout of a young lady. That was STEREOTYPING and OFFENSIVE. Period. Maybe my views of the consequences of her words are a bit too dramatic, but that does not change how degrading her statement was. I do not expect such comments from anyone, certainly not published in a national newspaper for all to see. If I expect from Ms Marion Tan what I expect from myself and others around me, then please tell me how the hell am I sanctimonious? Or perhaps that’s exactly it, I expect too much from everyone, regardless if I include myself in that category. But, you know what; I still don’t think that is sanctimonious. I think that it’s basic courtesy. In fact, I find it rather commonsensical that one should not demean bald hairstyles when the case is associated with Hair for Hope. Anyone would connect those degrading statements with cancer victims, even a fool could figure that out and keep his mouth shut. Well, apparently, not Ms Marion Tan.

Perhaps you thought my last paragraph was too strongly worded but I stand by every word of it. She is an educator, a principal at that, and she should be aware how she represents the whole school and not just herself when she makes ignorant comments to the media. I hope she also wakes up her bloody idea and sees that she has a huge influence over moulding our countries’ future and she better start acting like it. Even if you think that by criticising Ms Marion Tan I am being sanctimonious, guess what, I think I have every right to judge her. Sometimes, I feel that you generation talks about mine like you guys had absolutely nothing to do with us (Yes, that’s adapted from Dr. Phil). You guys are the ones who shape us into who we eventually become, and if I feel an educator is falling short, I feel I have every right to stand up and express exactly what I think is wrong. I find this quote by Jeff Bliss to his teacher quite relevant, “ The last time, you made a statement, ‘Oh, this is my pay check’. Indeed it is. But this is my country’s future and my education.” So, yes, I will state my view if I feel the educators are messing up, and I’m sorry if that appears sanctimonious to you. Have a good day, and if you still find me sanctimonious and arrogant after this, I apologise.

3Boys:

lifeislikethat:

Promises must be upheld, there is no doubt about it. If the girls specifically asked their principal for permission and that permission was granted on the basis they would wear wigs, then they should uphold their end of the deal. The fact they returned without wigs is a direct act of defiance against the principal and there is no wrong in the principal getting them to wear wigs. Yes, it goes again the spirit for Hair for Hope, and if the girls felt that way they should have tried negotiating or should not have attended the event. The girls’ charity spirit and courage is commendable, their outright defiance of authority leaves me unable to support them.

So now you’re probably thinking I’m narrow-minded conservative person who is siding with the unreasonable and terrible principal. That’s as far from the truth as possible. I don’t agree with the girls, but trust me, I absolutely despise the principal.

The girls were in the wrong for not upholding their end of the deal. But on what grounds did the principal make them promise they would wear wigs? It was a charity, and the whole aim was to go out in public bald to show their support. The principal was being extremely unreasonable by presenting them with a lose-lose situation: they can go for the event only if they wear a wig to go against the entire spirit of the event. She might as well not have given them a choice at all in that case! She should have nurtured their good intentions and charity work, and maybe make an exception for their case. Rules are made to have a general order and a default protocol for all to follow; it is not set in stone.

The principal defended herself, saying that “Can you imagine if I were to say yes, I'd have everybody coming to school with a bald head. Sometimes it's a fad, so they would take advantage of the situation.\" All I have to say to that is, so what? What’s wrong if everyone turned up to school with bald heads? I thought hairstyles were restricted to ensure the students look prim and proper. Well, I don’t think you can get any neater than going bald. When side-swept fringes are in fashion, I don’t see anyone complaining though personally I find them messy and it just gives me a bad impression overall. In fact, she could use these girls as an example and educate the students about Hair for Hope during assembly, and maybe more students will also shave their hair this time in support of a good cause.

Her reasoning for her refusal to let the girls go to school bald leaves a lot to be desired. She went on say that, \"It's very clear in our mission: it's about their turnout as a young lady.\" What I get from this is that the reason behind it does not matter at all; a bald head would not cause them to turn out right as a young lady in society. The girls clearly approached the principal to ask to shave their heads for Hair for Hope, I think there isn’t much doubt they meant well. The principal essentially is saying that their appearance takes precedence over their charity involvement. Pretty ironic if you ask me – coming from the principal of a school whose motto is: CHARITY, Devotion and Patience. I don’t think we need an educator teaching students the wrong values, thinking that their appearance is most important is not a mindset any teenage girl needs. I honestly thought we were beyond the point when a woman was only judged based only on her appearance and that women are now judged by their talents, abilities and contributions.

The damning thing of all: bald hairstyles (if you can even call it a hairstyle) are \"punk, unfeminine or sloppy hairstyles\". I find this stereotyping absolutely discriminatory. Many religions require the followers to shave bald for certain ceremonies/ under certain circumstances. I’m a Hindu, and in Hinduism for instance, sons have to shave their heads when their father passes away. So are they just punk and sloppy? Are you really going to tell that to someone who has just lost their father and shaved due to religious reasons? Honestly, as mentioned before, I think the side-swept bangs I see a lot of school girls sporting these days are a lot sloppier than a bald hairstyle. The principal, by stereotyping the bald hairstyles of girls who shaved their heads for a cancer charity, is pretty much applying these stereotypes to cancer victims. Whether this was her intention or not, imagine what a cancer patient would feel if they read that they are punk, unfeminine or sloppy just because of their bald heads, something they had absolutely no control over. I can imagine a young girl suffering from cancer, who feels insecure and that she’s less of a woman just because chemotherapy took her hair away from her. How heartbreaking it can be for her to hear that yes, yes she’s unfeminine simply because she’s bald. Coming from a figure of authority, these words would be all the more impactful and hurtful. This was the reason Hair for Hope was started, to show solidarity to the patients and that to show them that they are just like the rest of us. Once again, I find this ironic – the principal’s words have gone more against the spirit of Hair for Hope than her actions ever will. As mentioned earlier, I believe woman should be judged based on their talents and strengths, not just on their looks.

In summary, after that extremely long rant, the principal had the right to ask the girls to wear the wigs. I do not agree with the rule (of no bald hairstyles) but it was an arrangement formed between them earlier and they should uphold their end. However, I find her reasoning and superficial judgmental attitude, evident from her quotes in the article, extremely ridiculous and it frankly horrifies me that such a person is educating the future generation. I find this principal (I don’t even want to mention her name) has absolutely no sense of diplomacy judging by all the quotes, which is a frightening thought because the role of the principal is to rally the school and lead the students and staff alike, which cannot be achieved without diplomacy. I sincerely hope MOE considers asking her to re-attend the training required to become a principal, or at least her a publicist to prevent such ridiculous statements from being published in the national newspaper no less. I hope the girls do keep up their commendable spirit to support others and also hope that they learnt insubordination does not get you anywhere and they would try to negotiate with the principal further or bring the matter up to higher authority (like MOE perhaps) the next time.

Jeez, your horse too high to get off? How does this principal's sanctimony exceed yours?