Teach Less, Learn More
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It is great to see a debate carried out with grace and substance.
I was thought diplomacy and politeness are lost art.
Chenonceau, totally understand your point and as fellow p5 mom, I agree & support your stand. Thanks for all the well written perspectives.
If only my son was younger, or I joined this forum earlier, maybe I'd avoided the same not-chap-enough-in-p3/p4 pitfall. -
pixiedust:
@ Chenonceau - really appreciates your time and effort in the write-out :thankyou: very much...It is great to see a debate carried out with grace and substance.
I was thought diplomacy and politeness are lost art.
Chenonceau, totally understand your point and as fellow p5 mom, I agree & support your stand. Thanks for all the well written perspectives.
If only my son was younger, or I joined this forum earlier, maybe I'd avoided the same not-chap-enough-in-p3/p4 pitfall.
@pixiedust - I am learning from all you parents here that have gone the process for P3/P4 stage. Am so encourage and affirm that this is the time (DD1 in P3) now to get involved as much as I can with DD1. :celebrate: -
Chenonceau:
I have planned a time-table...by right I should be somewhat relieved since there is a schedule...but it's worrying bcos I don't know if he will do well for this SA1 to pull up his Band 3 results from CA1. Very very sian just thinking of getting through this month till end of SA1 ie 12/5.
Dun worry Janet, we'll pull through this together. Dun worry so much eh? I know it is difficult but we can encourage each other through this. What I have been trying to do is to not let my son see my distress.janet_lee88:
On one hand, I don't want to burn out my son for SA1/2 this year...exam time-table was released yesterday...but can I take another failure ?
The Maths homework he brings back everyday needs to be taught by hubby. Hubby is getting more worried by the day.
Many mommies have said that the children will get better as the year progresses and they are taught more things. Meanwhile, just plan a consistent timetable and don't burden your son with your stress. These 2 weeks, I've been making a conscious effort to do that, and I think it does help.
BTW, my tension headache is acting up. -
janet_lee88:
I have planned a time-table...by right I should be somewhat relieved since there is a schedule...but it's worrying bcos I don't know if he will do well for this SA1 to pull up his Band 3 results from CA1. Very very sian just thinking of getting through this month till end of SA1 ie 12/5.
Dun worry Janet, we'll pull through this together. Dun worry so much eh? I know it is difficult but we can encourage each other through this. What I have been trying to do is to not let my son see my distress.Chenonceau:
[quote=\"janet_lee88\"]On one hand, I don't want to burn out my son for SA1/2 this year...exam time-table was released yesterday...but can I take another failure ?
The Maths homework he brings back everyday needs to be taught by hubby. Hubby is getting more worried by the day.
Many mommies have said that the children will get better as the year progresses and they are taught more things. Meanwhile, just plan a consistent timetable and don't burden your son with your stress. These 2 weeks, I've been making a conscious effort to do that, and I think it does help.
BTW, my tension headache is acting up.[/quote]Janet be strong gal. BTW, you are not alone. :hugs: Whatever the situation we need to put up a brave front in the presence of our kids. I might crib here in KSP coz I feel KSPer are like buddies, I vent it on DH and also with my close friends who also have kids in P6, but all this is never in front of DS. In front of him I'm always on a positve note.
To me, venting and cribbing if done in moderation has an effect of 'I'm being understood'/'I'm not alone'. Well we parents are also human beings after all. At least I'm not an :imanangel: Of course if we do it all the time, it will have a negative effect on us.
Some invaluable tips from chenonceau are also helping me immensely in my journey. Check
http://www.kiasuparents.com/kiasu/forum/viewtopic.php?t=20569
I also read books by Paulo Coelho and Robin Sharma which helps me maintain some balance in life.
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Hi Tisha,
My hubby is in midst of transition to another job…so he tells me not to cook on days when both kids have to stay back after school. We go out for lunch instead. He knows I cannot get burnt out in the 1 month leading to exams…or else system shuts down. -
janet_lee88:
Good idea. You need some 'me' time. Some exercise, reading some good books should keep u a fit mummy. :celebrate:Hi Tisha,
My hubby is in midst of transition to another job...so he tells me not to cook on days when both kids have to stay back after school. We go out for lunch instead. He knows I cannot get burnt out in the 1 month leading to exams...or else system shuts down. -
insider:
But we ARE devastated because we did not see it coming. That is why, it is important to alert parents that failing in P5 is normal... and let them know that they can pre-teach... or they can tell their kids it is normal. It is for parents to choose based on the character of their child.I fail to see the reason of having to be so shocked and so devastated. To me there's no big deal in failing such kind of test where standard is set exceptionally high coz the ultimate PSLE will not be like this.
Just because we choose to pre-teach does not make us sheep, and part of a herd.insider:
What makes you think we don't do this? Did not Janet say that she refused to punish her child? Did not I say that I told my son that it is ok to fail? Did we not sit down with our children, cuddle them and put on a brave face?My kids never have to worry when they fail a test coz they know they have put in their best and best is good enough and together with mum, there'll always be a solution.
insider:
That is your choice. Each parent needs to examine their child's readiness for the material. I evaluated that my son is strong in Math, and we were able to complete the skills training enough to get estimated 80+. I can bring him up to 90+ if I take his play day. But I choose not to compromise play day (Sunday). That is a choice. We assess and we decide. For Chinese, he will fail. I know it. I have talked to him (told him the requirements were absurd for P5 SA1) and we will face the failure together. See... we don't disagree. You are advocating things we already do and know. We should not debate for the sake of disagreeing.(your solution is to pre-teach but I can IGNORE if those requirements are absurd enough and still carry on to march on towards PSLE coz these concepts subsequently can be grasped easier when the child is more cognitively ready.
We put on a brave face, smile at our child and let them know that with Mommy, things are alright. These you would do no? We do them too. I wish I had pre-taught. It applies to my situation. You may not agree, but do you know my situation?insider:
This causes pain. Whenever we suggest or support the causing of pain to a child, the think-through should be long and hard. It is not a hahaha decision.Come to think about it, actually not a bad idea to 'shock' kids once in a while... hahaha...
insider:
That is exactly the point this thread is making. Where do we disagree? Can you, by dismissing the hurt and shock felt by P5 parents make things better for these underprivileged kids? Reducing teacher-student ratio will help these under-privileged kids most. My son has me. Your kids have you. We both can teach. Who do the underprivileged kids have. It was a good suggestion but you didn't like it because you said \"not possible because not enough teachers\".We are in a vicious cycle, a 'storm'. The real ones who will suffer will be those under-privileged kids unless school can identify this group of children with a teacher caring enough to have extra extra remedial classes for them.
Insider, just please... don't let us dwell on how individual parents are right or wrong to be devastated. It is unproductive. Our children hurt, and we hurt... so... just be a bit empathetic. The really productive way forward is to generate enough momentum for change... and use the organisation that has the highest leverage against this storm - MOE. But in a previous post, you said that it wasn't worth the try because you couldn't see how it would work.
So, what is it you constructively advocate (apart from telling us we are a herd and that you fail to understand our emotional states)? What is it you constructively advocate? That is still unclear. The system is flawed, but you think it's no use doing anything about it (because we now must teach Indian teachers to speak)... meanwhile, parents are herd... and their hearts cannot be controlled, then how?
We continue to point at hurt parents holding hurt children and tell them that they're silly to be hurt? Why? Does that help improve the system? Gee... I sense that this is going nowhere so... I think I won't post anymore.
Propose a solution. -
Chenonceau:
That is why, it is important to alert parents that failing in P5 is normal... and let them know that they can pre-teach... or they can tell their kids it is normal. It is for parents to choose based on the character of their child.insider:
Look at the above 2 quotes. It is obvious that we agree, right? Why the debate then?You are advocating pre-teaching but I feel pre-teaching is not necessary. It's just two approaches towards an issue. Parents who don't pre-teach do not need to feel guilty but it is ok for them if they want to do so to feel 'better'. As said, my objective is to throw some balance into the discussion instead of making some parents feel the compulsiveness to pre-teach and as if dont do so 'will die' kind.
insider:
I am sharing MY choice just that you are sharing YOUR choice and neither of it is the only choice.
insider:
Yes... you can and should share your choices, but maybe you can be careful not to dismiss the genuine emotions of parents like Janet and even Tisha, who really are very worried.I fail to see the reason of having to be so shocked and so devastated.
insider:
Come to think about it, actually not a bad idea to 'shock' kids once in a while... hahaha...
Chenonceau:
This causes pain. Whenever we suggest or support the causing of pain to a child, the think-through should be long and hard. It is not a hahaha decision.
insider:
Look at the above quotes. Having a hahaha philosophy is well and good, but it is not the same as advocating that shocks to the child are good. These 2 are not same.\"hahaha\" is one of my philosophy in life...
insider:
But children ARE hurt. When children hurt. Parents hurt too eh? This system dishes hurt to ALL children including those with no parents, or absent parents, or parents in jail. What of them? They can decide they don't want to be hurt? Every teen who is cavalier and unconcerned today about his/her academic failures, WAS once a child whose heart was badly broken by failure he/she did not understand... and could not help. Parents don't have to yell and punish for the child to feel bad. Failure itself is devastating.No one can hurt you if you don't want to be hurt.
insider:
There're NO solutions and therefore I can't propose ... If there's a solution, those in MOE would have solved it long ago (they are not blind).
insider:
Really? No solution except for individual parents to sit back and accept B grades and C grades (actually, in P5, we're looking at FAIL grade) with a hahaha? Again, I say parents have a choice. Parents don't have to feel bad (for being a herd) about wanting to help their children get good grades ... just as those who don't think there is a need to help should not feel bad. After all, insider, if you learnt unitary transfer method 7 years ago (I didn't even bother at that time), you must have helped your child?If a parent is content with a 70 (like me, anything above is a bonus),
We also don't have to feel bad about trying to raise an issue to MOE's attention just in case it can help our nation's children. -
insider:
There is nothing wrong with you for not minding that. There is also nothing wrong with me/Janet/Tisha/Chamonix and plenty others who don't want that for our kids, is there? We are not a herd, nor are we too demanding.
See, that's the key difference between you and me (and some parents vs others).
I don't mind the B and C and I don't mind if my kid really has to end up in the ITE (I was prepared for my eldest son to learning cooking, which is his interest, in ITE or SHATEC if his O levels were not good enough or even to retain).insider:
It is not my job to give a well thought out proposal to MOE. We were just venting and providing each other emotional support, in the hope that someone would read... and think about the ideas... silly though they may sound. At this early stage, it's just idea generation. We were just letting off steam and doing a hahaha... so don't take it so seriously and stress on the difference between demanding parents and laid back ones.I have no intention at all to stop parents from giving feedback to MOE. My sharing may help to formulate a stronger proposal after seeing the constrains that MOE has (lack of teachers/good teachers, single session, parents' hearts, time limit, children of diversed 'pre-equipped'/'non-equipped' knowledge, bell curve, etc).
We're different. And so? -
insider:
You have switched focus again? Were you not talking about demanding A and A* from our kids - and therein lies our difference? Now, you are talking about our demands of teachers?We only do IEP for special needs kids and not ALL kids, even we only have 6 kids in a class.
To you maybe is not demanding. To me is ultra demanding coz you are expecting a teacher to have an IEP for individual child. This is a 'utopian' situation. More teachers will have to visit IMH if this is part of their job scope. You may try to make it happen...
It is not the same thing, you know.
Now, you have gone on to evaluate some of the admittedly silly ideas? Why do you think I refused to represent the voice of parents to MOE - because I KNOW some of these ideas need further evaluation, and I have no time and no interest to evaluate them. Even with you. As I said, these were ideas generated... many (like this one) may turn out to be silly... but it's not our job to write a parliamentary paper having thought through everything. I am already teaching stuff the school should be teaching. I am not gonna go into a white paper evaluation exercise on the relative merits of all the suggestions raised in this thread.
Let MOE do that.
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