Intellect or Age Peer?
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sleepy:
Actually, I think this will be great. Imagine a world where everyone finishes his studies at 18 (like it used to be), get married at 20 (like it used to be) and then have babies at 21 or 22. Wow! I can be grandma in a few years! Then, I'll talk about my grandchildren in KSP. :imcool:schweppes:
But if the teen is not interested in furthering studies, then go out to the workforce?
:?
How about some backpacking? Spend an entire year travelling :imcool:
Perhaps even 谈谈恋爱? No one is going to complain about affecting studies
Imagine the load off the parents' back. As it is, I'm just wondering how tough it must be for parents to fund children's education till they are 25/26! Going at this kind of rate, I'll be way into my 60s when my #5 graduates. How can? -
buds:
Actually, I hope my #5 will become his own boss. Not sure if he'll go to university early or not, or whether he can even make it. But he asked me, so I suggested he start a business, because I thought he can sell ice to eskimo kind. He is now ferociously writing and drawing materials to put on his new website he said he will create together with his brother #4. Haha... for that, both went to read up on HTML (don't know can master or not leh)
Workforce? :?schweppes:
I'm curious, for these exceptionally gifted kids who embark on an acceleration program, after moving on to Uni and graduating with a basic degree, perhaps before 18yo? What happens next? Move on to higher education like PhD and embark on an academic/ research career?
But if the teen is not interested in furthering studies, then go out to the workforce?
:?
:idea: Possible to be youngest professor or also perhaps an own boss?
. How I wish that kind of enthusiasm never dies.
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buds:
Accelerated education would support only half of the child as the child has yet to develop the gradual maturity into adulthood and hence will always be looked upon differently by peers of greater age, wouldn't it?
Actually, my kids don't have problem with that. The older intellectual peers are always kind and giving, roping them in for all sorts of social activities, selecting him for final year projects etc, no problems. But what I found quite worrisome is the attitude of age peers, especially the brighter age peers.
When his age peers call him a genius, he will tell people that his course is for the not so intelligent. He wants to blend in and be accepted by his age peers. As he matures, I find that this is getting less so, but I took time to monitor and counsel. The girls don't seem to have this problem though, I told them to keep their age secrets, and they pass off as 17/18 year olds somehow. :evil: In any case, even in the local unis, there are matured students, who would be double some fresh high school students, anyway. The age gap in the university is always quite big. -
2ppaamm:
Stuff from 1 to 4 above are stuff I do with him for fun, not to accelerate him but because he enjoys and I enjoy. And he learns stuff not learnt in school, not tested but important. He learns to form an opinion. He learns to disagree without feeling threatened. He learns wisdom is not his monopoly nor mine. He learns to integrate differing perspectives. He learns to cook. I never considered this acceleration but if this is acceleration, then I already do this and have been doing it all along. We did a lot for Science 'cos he loved it and it made him happy. Today we reap the benefits because the skills he learnt that I had no idea were important in school, are now important in school. The system has accelerated itself. I wish it hadn't. It was so much nicer to learn for the sake of learning. But well... All I want is better textbooks and other materials for teachers to teach with, I ain't gonna push to take away PSLE..........My youngest boy brought home his Maths homework today from school. He is P3, learning subtraction of two 3-digit numbers. There were 3 pages of homework on this topic! He doggedly finished the three pages, checked dutifully and kept the work in his bag.
The funny thing is, this is the first time he did not complain about Math school work, perhaps one month back in the Singapore system is all it takes to recondition him. He already knew how to add two 3-digit numbers two years ago. I thought to myself, could he have done something better in that 30 minutes?
What could I have done?
1. Played monopoly and taught him how to invest through games
2. Beat a cake and put it in the oven to bake
3. Read newspapers together
4. Taught him arithmetic progression
I'm not sure where your kids are intellectually in P3. But chances are, even if he/she is not already adding two 3-digit numbers, it does not take him/her three pages to learn. Some may take just one, some two, many will take 1 page and only a handful require all three pages. But the public education system will always sink to the lowest denominator, and cater for the 50th to 25th percentile.
So, imagine how many kids are bored in the classroom. I am not talking about the profoundly gifted (one in a million), exceptionally gifted (one in 100K), moderately gifted or gifted (one in a hundred). I am talking about the top 10% to 25% of our children. Many are bored.
I believe children should be allowed to learn at their own pace, to have an education system that caters to their abilities. They should be spending time pursuing what they love, not spending the whole year brushing up their exam taking skills. -
2ppaamm:
Not really. I don't quite understand you. I am interested but not understanding. Emotional development isn't academic? If I accelerate academically, it would be at the expense of the deliberate emotional developmental plan, no? I confess your thinking is still locked to me.Chenonceau:
Hard for me to answer this 'cos I dun think my kids pull naturally ahead of their peers. If they showed me that they did and really wanted to, then I would accelerate them. But they didn't and only cope with the current system because I hothouse DS in P5 and P6.
Contrary to what you think, I believe your kids are ahead of their peers. From your sharing, I think they are probably more matured and more stable than most kids, and certainly have good EQs.
If you didn't have to handle PSLE, you'll never have to hot house. If you don't have to hot house, I believe they would have progressed to much higher level work by now, and happily so.
Let's say a child does not have to do PSLE, his time is released from all these work. This time is used to pursue his high school studies. Every 3 hours x 12 weeks, he earns a credit in high school (about Sec 1 or Sec 2 level), after 25 of these, he goes to the university. His self-esteem increases, his time in school shortens, he has time to make more friends, for sports, for music, for mummy. Does this make sense?
What high school studies?
If we did not have PSLE, we would probably be accelerating in areas that have nothing to do with school. He has eclectic interests. Friends who know him, gave him for X'mas Gavin Menzies book entitled 1421 The Year China Discovered the World. He found it fascinating and had fun discussing it. Another time, he developed an inexplicable interest in Democracy as a construct. He borrowed a thick book. He read it. He tried to make me read it too! Another time, he expounded on his version of Malthusian theory. If I did not know who Malthus was, I would've been quite lost in his discussion.
But all this stuff has zilch to do with what he learns in school... And tested. We do this when we have time. I am not sure but in such areas, he is probably ahead of his peers... But does this count as acceleration? I'm not sure.
He does get bored in school. The learning is often uni-dimensional. Teachers teach on thing at a time. This bores the brain. Nothing like the multi dimensional learning you get with Stellar. Most schools aren't there yet. We do multi dimensional learning at home in spare time. That's why I am upset he has no time. There is stuff I wanna teach him that isn't tested to round off the lopsided education he gets in school. But because the system has accelerated it's demands, we have no time. Is this what you are trying to tell me?
If I tried to accelerate him upwards through the system, we would have even less time because it would be more of the same thing, no? -
You need an option 5 - what the child wants and is most comfortable with.
There are profoundly gifted kids that are happiest with age peers, because they prefer to blend in or have anxiety issues. Acceleration is a case by case issue, and has to take into account the child’s capacity for adjustment.
I think in an ideal system, a child is accelerated according to subject ability, and not across the board. This takes great flexibility on part of everyone, and child has to be mature. Terry Tao’s education was done that way, and because his english was average, he was with age peers for English class, but join the older kids for maths. I think for sports he was with his age peers. His parents took a lot of time to research into education, discussing his options with various experts in gifted children, and school principals. I read that he is one of the few pg children who fulfilled the early promise of his childhood in adulthood, making mathematical discoveries and still socially well adjusted. In an interview, he said going to different level classes as a child meant the whole school knew him, and he was used to talking to all levels and age. At one point, his parents deliberately slowed himdown because they felt he was emotionally not ready for university. Instead, they arranged for him to take other courses in high school - so it was not a through train, but a wider knowledge base.
I think his parents did a really good job guiding him, and drilling into him the need to behave with humility. -
deminc:
:goodpost:You need an option 5 - what the child wants and is most comfortable with.
There are profoundly gifted kids that are happiest with age peers, because they prefer to blend in or have anxiety issues. Acceleration is a case by case issue, and has to take into account the child's capacity for adjustment.
I think in an ideal system, a child is accelerated according to subject ability, and not across the board. This takes great flexibility on part of everyone, and child has to be mature. Terry Tao's education was done that way, and because his english was average, he was with age peers for English class, but join the older kids for maths. I think for sports he was with his age peers. His parents took a lot of time to research into education, discussing his options with various experts in gifted children, and school principals. I read that he is one of the few pg children who fulfilled the early promise of his childhood in adulthood, making mathematical discoveries and still socially well adjusted. In an interview, he said going to different level classes as a child meant the whole school knew him, and he was used to talking to all levels and age. At one point, his parents deliberately slowed himdown because they felt he was emotionally not ready for university. Instead, they arranged for him to take other courses in high school - so it was not a through train, but a wider knowledge base.
I think his parents did a really good job guiding him, and drilling into him the need to behave with humility. -
deminc:
DS definitely likes blending in. DD wasn't especially ahead in any subject, except EQ, which has never been a subject. If accelerated, she would lose touch with the most rewarding aspect of school for her - the social network.
There are profoundly gifted kids that are happiest with age peers, because they prefer to blend in. Acceleration is a case by case issue, and has to take into account the child's capacity for adjustment.deminc:
If accelerated, DS would probably become completely blocked in Chinese. I can just imagine him with selective mutism in Chinese. :rotflmao: DD already has selective mutism even without being accelerated. :rotflmao:I think in an ideal system, a child is accelerated according to subject ability, and not across the board. This takes great flexibility on part of everyone, and child has to be mature. Terry Tao's education was done that way, and because his english was average, he was with age peers for English class, but join the older kids for maths. I think for sports he was with his age peers.
deminc:
This is smart. Go wide before you go deep, especially if you have time. Be a Leondardo da Vinci of sorts - a Renaissance man/woman.Instead, they arranged for him to take other courses in high school - so it was not a through train, but a wider knowledge base.
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2ppaamm:
Actually, I think this will be great. Imagine a world where everyone finishes his studies at 18 (like it used to be), get married at 20 (like it used to be) and then have babies at 21 or 22. Wow! I can be grandma in a few years! Then, I'll talk about my grandchildren in KSP. :imcool:sleepy:
[quote=\"schweppes\"]
But if the teen is not interested in furthering studies, then go out to the workforce?
:?
How about some backpacking? Spend an entire year travelling :imcool:
Perhaps even 谈谈恋爱? No one is going to complain about affecting studies
Imagine the load off the parents' back. As it is, I'm just wondering how tough it must be for parents to fund children's education till they are 25/26! Going at this kind of rate, I'll be way into my 60s when my #5 graduates. How can?[/quote]I follow your thoughts on this issue. I would be happy to have my kids working at a younger age - if they are so smart they can breeze through school and jump grades
Of course, if it means artificially hothousing them to accelerate their grades and they end up not having time to themselves, then it is a pointless mission － at least it is pointless to me, since it means taking time away from developing other interests and bad on personal development.
If children graduate earlier, the market will be filled with more unemployment if there isn't enough jobs created (headache for garmen). Creating jobs for themselves by becoming entrepreneurs is a great idea - but its just an idea. If the kids have been spending most of their time meeting grades, they'll have a lot to learn about society and working with people. Of course, moving up the grades faster also means they can afford to take higher studies in areas of their interests, and possibly make new discoveries (become einsteins, like what Chenonceau said)
There are pros too if they start work early - since they can afford to make mistakes when they are young (Or would people expect more from them since they are supposed to be smarter? Wow, very complex leh, cos it is society we are dealing with, so we are treading on untested grounds). Will need a lot of input from parents like 2ppaamm... -
My starting point is already different.
1. I believe more than 10% of the kids are in the wrong level.
2. I assume all kids are keen learners.
3. I also assume parents can find social activities outside the school.
4. I also believe interaction with all levels (and not with age peers alone benefits a child, and replicates the real world better than the same-age interaction.
5. I believe should play with their age peers, but must learn with their intellectual peers
6. I don’t believe all of us are only gifted in one or two areas, we are just MOTIVATED to do one or two areas. Everyone should believe they can be a Leonardo Da Vinci.
Therefore, I think this makes sense:
1. We should not chase the bell curve. Instead people should move upwards when they are ready, not when told to do so. So, even those who score 80% can move up, once they understand why they did not do those 20% right.
2. Excessive testing is not necessary. PSLE should not be necessary, not even O levels. We test only when we want to know if the kid can cope with a subject, and for universities to select their students. Therefore, class tests are sufficient, and the results need not be known to others besides the child, parents and the teachers. The purpose is for planning the next step academically for the child.
3. Given the above, all our kids will not be working at the same level. Most will be accelerated. Many of our P6 kids would be working on something of a higher level. I believe they will spend much less time on their work chasing As, and become much more contented learners.
4. More able kids will find more self-esteem in interacting with intellectual peers, to discuss things closer to their hearts. They are also allowed to pursue their passions earlier.
5. Education should not be restricted to just Languages, Math and Science, especially at the primary levels. We should allow students to explore things like dance, sports, arts, humanities, skills and philosophy. Some could be studying such subjects at high school level and yet be in Primary schools.
Is it possible? I think so. Just that we must think out of the box, and must be willing to be creative around things. "Acceleration" is just a word, it can mean anything. To me, it is a way of getting my kids out of this pressure cooker, to pursue things they love, to buy more time to do fun things. On the flip side, the social interaction with age peers suffers. We back that up with sports, music and lots of camps and parties.
Contrary to common belief, moving ahead in academic does not give stress if done correctly. For our case, it takes away stress. My 12 year old is so happy not to have to take PSLE, but his undergrad work is not much easier, the point is, he enjoys reading those 25 page philosophies compared to mugging and doing cloze passages. Which would your child prefer? He prefers researching about how to build a good website to get visitors to doing assessment papers from other schools. He would very much like to go to school everyday and play with the boys, but this is the part he does not have. So I wished more people would be like him, so that he is not viewed weird. He still goes and visit his friends who are having less and less time for him because they are preparing for PSLE. We are a little sad, but if he were to be preparing PSLE as well, I guess he cannot play. At least he gets to play with others not his age these days, and goes for training 4 times a week. Most PSLE kids are giving up their sports this year, and holding their music lessons. I find this strange…
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