Intellect or Age Peer?
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2ppaamm:
Read more about Hikkikomori here. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hikikomori
Take care of the little ones, a pressurizing education system can cause a lot of harm. Well meaning parents, under the pressure of the system, may also be the source of such a phenomenon.
For my case, I believe my children were saved by acceleration, which gave them confidence, hope, and escape from a system that does not forgive, that does not satisfy, that does not understand, pitching friends against friends. Radically accelerating my kids, I deliberately choose to not chase after A's, I gave my kids a totally different yardstick, themselves.
Honestly, because I read, research and talk to so many people about education, I get really scared of stuff like these (Hikkikomori) and having seen so many recluse from RI, GEP, etc etc, from as young as Sec 1, I wonder if anyone from the education ministry is ever as worried as any parent. These things never surface in our press. But I know so many personally. Sometimes I wonder if I had not rescued my kids and accelerated them, what would have happened?
I am concerned to hear that acceleration is a solution to get away from a pressurizing education system. Did I understand wrongly? -
concern2:
You mean only GEP kids lack drive? :? :? :?ksi:
[quote=\"concern2\"]
Ok, I must also say at this point that I am not blaming the GEP for causing the lack of drive in students, or that our education system is the only reason for lack of drive. I am trying to point out the fact that GEP may result in parental drive that ends up in lack of drive in students.
Ok, this one also not what I mean.[/quote]Can you please elaborate what does the line in bold mean? :? :?
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ksi:
Can you please elaborate what does the line in bold mean? :? :?[/quote]Not to forget, there is much 'spill-over' effect from the GEP system (e.g. parents overdriving their kids to the limits to be one of the η²Ύθ±, and the GEP system itself has also evolved over the years too - for better or for worse, still unknown.concern2:
[quote=\"ksi\"]
You mean only GEP kids lack drive? :? :? :? Ok, this one also not what I mean.
Perhaps, I would think, a further exploration on this topic would be - are over-driven parents/relavant parties (including schools, teachers) resulting in the lack of drive in students? -
ksi:
Interesting point.2ppaamm:
Read more about Hikkikomori here. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hikikomori
Take care of the little ones, a pressurizing education system can cause a lot of harm. Well meaning parents, under the pressure of the system, may also be the source of such a phenomenon.
For my case, I believe my children were saved by acceleration, which gave them confidence, hope, and escape from a system that does not forgive, that does not satisfy, that does not understand, pitching friends against friends. Radically accelerating my kids, I deliberately choose to not chase after A's, I gave my kids a totally different yardstick, themselves.
Honestly, because I read, research and talk to so many people about education, I get really scared of stuff like these (Hikkikomori) and having seen so many recluse from RI, GEP, etc etc, from as young as Sec 1, I wonder if anyone from the education ministry is ever as worried as any parent. These things never surface in our press. But I know so many personally. Sometimes I wonder if I had not rescued my kids and accelerated them, what would have happened?
I am concerned to hear that acceleration is a solution to get away from a pressurizing education system. Did I understand wrongly? -
concern2:
[/quote]But GEP kids only constitutes to 1% of a cohort, I am sure the lack of drive Singaporeans are not such a small sample size. I believe the issue is bigger than than the contribution of the over-drive GEP parents.
Not to forget, there is much 'spill-over' effect from the GEP system (e.g. parents overdriving their kids to the limits to be one of the η²Ύθ±, and the GEP system itself has also evolved over the years too - for better or for worse, still unknown.ksi:
[quote=\"concern2\"]
Can you please elaborate what does the line in bold mean? :? :?
Perhaps I would think a further exploration on this topic would be - are over-driven parents/relavant parties (including schools, teachers) resulting in the lack of drive in students? -
ksi:
I agree. One thing I need to point out is that not only GEP parents are over-driven. I have so far only been considering education-related issues since the article touched on what the Minister of Education said. What do you have in mind, ksi? Perhaps can enlighten us too?
But GEP kids only constitutes to 1% of a cohort, I am sure the lack of drive Singaporeans are not such a small sample size. I believe the issue is bigger than than the contribution of the over-drive GEP parents.
-
ksi:
It seems quite shocking but if you've homeschooled before, it really isn't. It may be easier to understand this from the perspective of homeschool VS school-school.2ppaamm:
Read more about Hikkikomori here. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hikikomori
Take care of the little ones, a pressurizing education system can cause a lot of harm. Well meaning parents, under the pressure of the system, may also be the source of such a phenomenon.
For my case, I believe my children were saved by acceleration, which gave them confidence, hope, and escape from a system that does not forgive, that does not satisfy, that does not understand, pitching friends against friends. Radically accelerating my kids, I deliberately choose to not chase after A's, I gave my kids a totally different yardstick, themselves.
Honestly, because I read, research and talk to so many people about education, I get really scared of stuff like these (Hikkikomori) and having seen so many recluse from RI, GEP, etc etc, from as young as Sec 1, I wonder if anyone from the education ministry is ever as worried as any parent. These things never surface in our press. But I know so many personally. Sometimes I wonder if I had not rescued my kids and accelerated them, what would have happened?
I am concerned to hear that acceleration is a solution to get away from a pressurizing education system. Did I understand wrongly?
Downtime in School
When I send my son to school, I am prepared to accept slower academic progress. In school, there is down time. You wait for Teachers to come to class. You collect exercise books. You wait for Teachers to finish scolding. You wait for Teachers to finish explaining stuff you already know. There is so much downtime in school that DS makes it a point to finish all his homework in school during the scolding sessions and explanations-not-targeted-at-him sessions. We had to do this or we would never have enough time to cover the bits that help him do well (which school does not cover but still tests).
Syllabus-Centrism
School teaches around a syllabus. The kids cannot choose what they want to learn and when because everyone is taught together. In my experience with homeschooling, I allowed DS and DD to choose from a pool of topics what they wanted to do. This is not practical in school because everyone would choose different topics and it would be a nightmare for Teachers. Nonetheless, the very small act of choosing what he or she wants to learn about helps the child to focus better when learning and feeling that he/she wants to learn. The moment this attitude is in place... the acceleration happens all by itself... and you don't even need a gifted kid.
For example, we begin by covering DNA... genes and stuff with some library books and a video on forensic investigators. Somewhere in that material, there is mentioned the notion of giving DNA data to employers and insurance companies. The child asks why employers need DNA data. A discussion begins where we explore the ethics of research (this is 4th year university level material and is a precursor to a Masters by research). In this way, you accelerate the child and no one feels accelerated.
In the natural world, knowledge isn't structured into neat levels. A P4 child is quite capable of discussing ethics in research.
I am not surprised that 2ppaamm's children were saved by acceleration. Highly gifted children do not abide teaching. They wanna discover and the best Teacher is a supportive companion. And with a wise companion, such children can accelerate themselves all by themselves... and they love it.
Friction-ful VS Friction-less
Learning within the school system comes with friction... an opposing force that interferes with learning freely (downtime is one reason... feeling forced to learn is another) that requires effort on the part of the child to counter. Learning at home reduces this friction by a great deal, especially when your companion is skilled at learning companionship.
I stress on \"learning companion\" not \"teacher\".
I would never accelerate my kid through the school system (i.e., skip levels or GEP) but I can see a lot of joy in accelerating him in homeschool. Gee... I wonder if I make sense... -
concern2:
Interesting point.[/quote]Not sure if it will help to consider in this way:ksi:
[quote=\"2ppaamm\"]Read more about Hikkikomori here. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hikikomori
Take care of the little ones, a pressurizing education system can cause a lot of harm. Well meaning parents, under the pressure of the system, may also be the source of such a phenomenon.
For my case, I believe my children were saved by acceleration, which gave them confidence, hope, and escape from a system that does not forgive, that does not satisfy, that does not understand, pitching friends against friends. Radically accelerating my kids, I deliberately choose to not chase after A's, I gave my kids a totally different yardstick, themselves.
Honestly, because I read, research and talk to so many people about education, I get really scared of stuff like these (Hikkikomori) and having seen so many recluse from RI, GEP, etc etc, from as young as Sec 1, I wonder if anyone from the education ministry is ever as worried as any parent. These things never surface in our press. But I know so many personally. Sometimes I wonder if I had not rescued my kids and accelerated them, what would have happened?
I am concerned to hear that acceleration is a solution to get away from a pressurizing education system. Did I understand wrongly?
1. Pressurizing education system has its pros, so wanting to get away from it will have negative results.
2. Pressurizing education system is not conducive way of educating children, has many cons for overall development, so must find alternative methods of learning.
I think what most of us here are saying is closer to point 2. Since GEP is supposed to apply εΊζζ½ζ, its evolvement seems to be going further and further away from its mission (please correct me if I am wrong) and parents who have the ability and capabilities prefer to take their children's education into their own hands and apply εΊζζ½ζ that they find lacking in the current system. -
ksi:
No, that's not what I meant. There is no solution to the problem in Japan. The problem is also present in Singapore.2ppaamm:
Read more about Hikkikomori here. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hikikomori
Take care of the little ones, a pressurizing education system can cause a lot of harm. Well meaning parents, under the pressure of the system, may also be the source of such a phenomenon.
For my case, I believe my children were saved by acceleration, which gave them confidence, hope, and escape from a system that does not forgive, that does not satisfy, that does not understand, pitching friends against friends. Radically accelerating my kids, I deliberately choose to not chase after A's, I gave my kids a totally different yardstick, themselves.
Honestly, because I read, research and talk to so many people about education, I get really scared of stuff like these (Hikkikomori) and having seen so many recluse from RI, GEP, etc etc, from as young as Sec 1, I wonder if anyone from the education ministry is ever as worried as any parent. These things never surface in our press. But I know so many personally. Sometimes I wonder if I had not rescued my kids and accelerated them, what would have happened?
I am concerned to hear that acceleration is a solution to get away from a pressurizing education system. Did I understand wrongly?
There's no way out of the pressure of our education system. It is compulsory for the first 6 years, and after that, kids still have to stay in the system and not allowed to go to any other schools, unless these schools are approved by MOE. The way to get out of the pressurizing system is deliberately not to participate in the crazy race. But that would mean failing and definitely falling on the left side of the bell curve for many in our current system, even for the brighter kids. This is because on the bell curve, everything is relative to the performance of peers. Hence, if everyone is on tuition and giving up their lives for just study, it is impossible to be out of the pressure cooker.
If my kids had stayed in the system, they would have spent a lot of time (too much time) on trying to get As. They spend much more time and effort and yet get a lower GPA (because they won't be as motivated working on things they have no passion in), they have much less incentive to put passion into their work because no matter what they do, there's always someone whom the principal will call out, and those same people who are groomed to get those same awards. Those few whom the school want to nurture and win scholarships to give the school 'face'. My kids are good, but to be the BEST means to put in a lot more work in lieu of too much other pleasures in life. The teachers do not take an effort to appreciate their good work, because our system looks out for the best, not EVERYONE. Their best is never good enough, as long as there's someone better. In my kids' world, their best is always good enough as long as there's improvement, and hence there's always an incentive to work harder than what is expected but never for grades alone. In schools, they work according to what is expected. In schools, they think of what RIGHT answers to give, so that the teachers will score them A's, in my kids' system, they consider ALL the answers and all of them are right in different ways. They then ponder a little longer and decide which they can agree with best. That may not be the model answer, but it is perfectly ok. No need to get A, just need to learn.
A kid in our education system is put on the bell curve, and all of them are smart. Therefore a kid with a GPA of 2.5 may be as good as a kid in the US with a GPA of 4.0 but the former kid will never get a chance to get into a good college in US. No, the perfect SAT and AP scores are not good enough to get anyone into a good university, you need your GPA score. This is often a rude shock to students when their college application gets rejected by the Ivies, it is then too late to go and participate in a CCA, try to improve their GPA or learn other important skills. In our Singapore system, our kids suffer even in the international arena because of that bell curve that serves well only if your kid intends to study in Singapore, our very fantastic students are disadvantaged vis-a-vis poorer students in another country's system, which our students will eventually face once the kids apply to the universities.
For most of my kids, (except one), they stay in the system (until they enrol in the uni) but choose not to be pressurized. My kids happen to survive well despite having no tuition and no help, they are not #1 but manage to end up in top classes in primary and sec schools. So I figure they handle the Singapore education system ok. On the side, they work harder on something else, and happens that because they are motivated, they are accelerated on the other system. The kids dual enrolled, you see. On our system, they are above average, on another system, because of their passion, they excel. Because they excel, they are accelerated. Because they are accelerated, they self-esteem is high, because they are accelerated fast enough, their passion is not lost in the system. Because their passion is not lost in the system, they get to do what they love at an advanced level at a very young age. Because they get to do something they love at an advanced level at a young age, they get to do postgrad earlier, because they do postgrad earlier, hopefully they have more time on their side and will be in the forefront of their field. If they do not pursue research, they will enter into the work force earlier, hopefully marry earlier, have babies earlier, earn money earlier, have less debt and have a happier life.
Heheh... that's how I have envisioned the path we chose, happier life, and out of the pressure cooker. Happens they are accelerated, and with minimal pressure, at least much less than the ones from the school system. -
Chenonceau:
It seems quite shocking but if you've homeschooled before, it really isn't. It may be easier to understand this from the perspective of homeschool VS school-school.ksi:
[quote=\"2ppaamm\"]Read more about Hikkikomori here. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hikikomori
Take care of the little ones, a pressurizing education system can cause a lot of harm. Well meaning parents, under the pressure of the system, may also be the source of such a phenomenon.
For my case, I believe my children were saved by acceleration, which gave them confidence, hope, and escape from a system that does not forgive, that does not satisfy, that does not understand, pitching friends against friends. Radically accelerating my kids, I deliberately choose to not chase after A's, I gave my kids a totally different yardstick, themselves.
Honestly, because I read, research and talk to so many people about education, I get really scared of stuff like these (Hikkikomori) and having seen so many recluse from RI, GEP, etc etc, from as young as Sec 1, I wonder if anyone from the education ministry is ever as worried as any parent. These things never surface in our press. But I know so many personally. Sometimes I wonder if I had not rescued my kids and accelerated them, what would have happened?
I am concerned to hear that acceleration is a solution to get away from a pressurizing education system. Did I understand wrongly?
Downtime in School
When I send my son to school, I am prepared to accept slower academic progress. In school, there is down time. You wait for Teachers to come to class. You collect exercise books. You wait for Teachers to finish scolding. You wait for Teachers to finish explaining stuff you already know. There is so much downtime in school that DS makes it a point to finish all his homework in school during the scolding sessions and explanations-not-targeted-at-him sessions. We had to do this or we would never have enough time to cover the bits that help him do well (which school does not cover but still tests).
Syllabus-Centrism
School teaches around a syllabus. The kids cannot choose what they want to learn and when because everyone is taught together. In my experience with homeschooling, I allowed DS and DD to choose from a pool of topics what they wanted to do. This is not practical in school because everyone would choose different topics and it would be a nightmare for Teachers. Nonetheless, the very small act of choosing what he or she wants to learn about helps the child to focus better when learning and feeling that he/she wants to learn. The moment this attitude is in place... the acceleration happens all by itself... and you don't even need a gifted kid.
For example, we begin by covering DNA... genes and stuff with some library books and a video on forensic investigators. Somewhere in that material, there is mentioned the notion of giving DNA data to employers and insurance companies. The child asks why employers need DNA data. A discussion begins where we explore the ethics of research (this is 4th year university level material and is a precursor to a Masters by research). In this way, you accelerate the child and no one feels accelerated.
In the natural world, knowledge isn't structured into neat levels. A P4 child is quite capable of discussing ethics in research.
I am not surprised that 2ppaamm's children were saved by acceleration. Highly gifted children do not abide teaching. They wanna discover and the best Teacher is a supportive companion. And with a wise companion, such children can accelerate themselves all by themselves... and they love it.
Friction-ful VS Friction-less
Learning within the school system comes with friction... an opposing force that interferes with learning freely (downtime is one reason... feeling forced to learn is another) that requires effort on the part of the child to counter. Learning at home reduces this friction by a great deal, especially when your companion is skilled at learning companionship.
I stress on \"learning companion\" not \"teacher\".
I would never accelerate my kid through the school system (i.e., skip levels or GEP) but I can see a lot of joy in accelerating him in homeschool. Gee... I wonder if I make sense...[/quote]O my goodness?! How is it that all your points are what I often tell people about including the time wasted in being scolded or watching others being scolded?! :hi5:
The red part. How true! I tried both. O dear! What disaster... the paper work, the justification... the tests.... the meetings after meetings the this and that, this paper work needs more this, that paper work needs more that.... you rush here and there to get this and then back again. Urgh! What a waste of time. Easier to just use the time to focus on getting the right materials for the kids, or watch an interesting movie... :boogie:
Can't agree more. Even an average student can be accelerated. But I'd just go for top 10% for now other people will definitely
. Given the right approach, the right execution and the right parenting, I cannot disagree that even the average can be accelerated. That's why the homeschooled in the US are getting better results than the school-going ones. They all have good parents.
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