Is GEP really necessary?
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I've never quite forgiven this governmentt for bringing in the casinos despite gathering feedback... hearing people out... and then still going right ahead. I suppose it's gonna do it again in the new Dialogue on National Values... and what we want Singapore to become.
Talk... talk... talk... and then... oh well... WE think this is best... WE know best... WE are smart, gifted, scholars, had perfect grades and therefore also perfect thinking (YOU... where were YOU when I collected my perfect A level cert and served as President of my JC's student council... and lounged around the fireplace at Cambridge?). So... thank you for giving your 2 cents, I will now tell you that THIS is what we will do... you people of inferior intellect.
And what they do will be exactly what they wanted to do BEFORE all the National Dialogue. :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: -
Dnls_mum:
Pam and Dnls_mum... :goodpost: :goodpost:2ppaamm:
Mixing is always better ... once a group is branded, it is hard to remove that label, in fact, sometimes, some PG/EG deliberately get labeled 2E, so that people will pity them on the disability part.
Agree Agree. That's why when my boy went to GEP, I insisted that he take up CCA that is not academically linked! No Comp Science, Robotic or even Math Olympiad. I made him join scouts! He was the only GEPer in Scouts! :rotflmao: I want him to mix with others and enjoy outdoor group activities.
It worked! He is now in IP school (NJC) but not GEP school and has no problem mixing with his other classmates. He is doing well in school and his teacher did notice that he is very fast with maths and always had alternative solutions and so asked us and was not surprise when we confirmed he came from GEP. He now does accelerated maths which is good for him as he was already showing signs of being bored with the general math curriculum. His teacher has asked him to be a peer tutor, and he has our blessings to share his knowledge with his classmates. Again, his CCA now is Canoeing and not in some acedamically linked CCA, and he is enjoying it and mixing well with all regardless of academic strength.
So frankly, we can make the best of the situation and it is up to us parents to decide how we want our child to grow up -
Dnls_mum:
Education system will solve or prevent more social problems in future. Education system will shape our future. Everything is interlinked.
3Boys, I agree with you. We have an issue of social mobility. This is a social problem. Not a GEP or No GEP issue. Not an education system issue.3Boys:
I did not say we were the best, but neither do I believe our teaching system is in dire need of overhaul. If there is an issue with fairness in our society (and I will grant you that there is), then it needs to be dealt with at the societal level and school is but one small part of that.
I have said before, there is not point giving and iPad to a child who goes home to a family with absentee fathers, or a child who needs to work at the family hawker stall.
I value GEP and our education system very much as I want the best brains to lead our country in future and compete with the FTs. For that to happen, I wish the deserving ones are selected and correctly nurtured with empathy and values and world class knowledge or skills . I care alot about social mobility because I don't wish the weaker ones in future to have to compete with the FWs or getting handouts. In addition to the fact that I benefited from it and I owe it to the next poor but smart student to voice it out.
And I hope the middle 2%-90% band of students have their potentials fully developed without all the tuitions and unnecessary stress due to teacher-student ratios, insufficient materials, etc.
As Ponyo said it well, \"We are a small little red city state. A life left undeveloped to its fullest potential is one too many already…\". Also we don't have so much resources, tax money etc to to help the poor, to develop the talents (foreign ones also we need to develop) so if we can constantly improve our systems, I don't see why we can't go for it.
One and a half year ago, I would rather enjoy my Saturday going shopping and get my deserved rest then sit down in front of a computer and write out my concerns. Why ? because I have seen few social problems that worry me now. I am not against abolishing any system because it has served us well thus far. What I hope is accountability, more transparency, more care, more prudent policy, etc. And I am looking forward to tomorrow's speeches and hopefully actions. -
Dnls_mum... :salute:
You da mom! http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys.php
Sorry, I giggled at the scouts bit. :oops:
Niwaes, canoeing will give sonny great physique and a nice tan..
Good preps for NS too. I was into canoeing for awhile in my teens
and as a young adult later on, apart from swimming for a small club. As a girl, not too nice tho cos I had problem fitting into pretty petite dresses with my broad shoulders. :politebleah: But the practices and days outside gave good stamina and allowed me to remain active, to stay healthy. Hope you guys donch go become FT somewhere else, as we sure need all rounders like your son in future government. (If he decides to be one, I vote yes. :D) I am seeing him as .... The kind of leaders who walk the ground and knows the ground not just the kind who talks all around in a merry go round.
You must be so proud of your boys. I would love to read more from you, so do share more when you have the time to. Have a great weekend! :celebrate: -
cherryc:
Education system will solve or prevent more social problems in future. Education system will shape our future. Everything is interlinked.
3Boys, I agree with you. We have an issue of social mobility. This is a social problem. Not a GEP or No GEP issue. Not an education system issue.Dnls_mum:
[quote=\"3Boys\"]
I did not say we were the best, but neither do I believe our teaching system is in dire need of overhaul. If there is an issue with fairness in our society (and I will grant you that there is), then it needs to be dealt with at the societal level and school is but one small part of that.
I have said before, there is not point giving and iPad to a child who goes home to a family with absentee fathers, or a child who needs to work at the family hawker stall.
I value GEP and our education system very much as I want the best brains to lead our country in future and compete with the FTs. For that to happen, I wish the deserving ones are selected and correctly nurtured with empathy and values and world class knowledge or skills . I care alot about social mobility because I don't wish the weaker ones in future to have to compete with the FWs or getting handouts. In addition to the fact that I benefited from it and I owe it to the next poor but smart student to voice it out.
And I hope the middle 2%-90% band of students have their potentials fully developed without all the tuitions and unnecessary stress due to teacher-student ratios, insufficient materials, etc.
As Ponyo said it well, \"We are a small little red city state. A life left undeveloped to its fullest potential is one too many already…\". Also we don't have so much resources, tax money etc to to help the poor, to develop the talents (foreign ones also we need to develop) so if we can constantly improve our systems, I don't see why we can't go for it.
One and a half year ago, I would rather enjoy my Saturday going shopping and get my deserved rest then sit down on a computer and write out my concerns. Why ? because I have seen few social problems that worry me now. I am not against abolishing any system because it has served us well thus far. What I hope is accountability, more transparency, more care, more prudent policy, etc. And I am looking forward to tomorrow's speeches and hopefully actions.[/quote]
Hi cherryc, good to see you here.
:goodpost:
I'm also looking forward to the speech tomorrow to know if our govt HAS indeed been listening .... -
HVR:
*clap clap clap*. This is the spirit I likey.... :salute:May I ask among us who want to be construction workers, restaurants waiters, coffee shop assistants, bus drivers, cleaners, etc? So no choice we employ foreign workers and it's wrong? Just because outside their work hours, they somehow 'tax' our public transport system, our amenities when they go about their life?
What is fair? The good schools must become bad schools and the rich must become poor? So we might as well have a giant rotation kind of scheme to rotate everything so everything and everyone is fair.
The bottomline is we cannot ensure equal distribution but equal opportunity. Having said that, if you bother, you would know they are many schemes in place to 'redistrubute' wealth to the less privileged. Tax system is one. Utility rebate is another. Just to name a few.
I am from very poor background and now I think I am at least above average class and I didn't go through any good schools, good uni so I kind of resent it when people say the poor here doesnt stand a chance. -
I beg to differ! Education system does play some parts in causing an issue in the social mobility.
At least, we all agreed that there is an issue of social mobility.
Under current policies in our education system, firstly, those pupils who have rich parents will have all the resources to enrich themselves for DSA (in whatever domains, GEP, good PSLE results) and hence can get into good secondary and then universities and so on...
Secondly, though poor bright pupils (remembered that they have no tuition with useless textbook, hopefully they got some good teachers along the way) who have reasonably good PSLE results, they are deprived for an opportunity to get into TOP/good sec schools as compared to some who have poorer results but still got into the top schools through DSA.
The current policies in our education system do give UNFAIR advantages and associate to these RICH pupils or pupils who have educated parents or come from the RICH heritage. The poor pupils face too much hurdles in order to rise up the society ladder.....
Though I stated the fact, but :siam: for
Dnls_mum:
3Boys, I agree with you. We have an issue of social mobility. This is a social problem. Not a GEP or No GEP issue. Not an education system issue.[/quote]3Boys:
I did not say we were the best, but neither do I believe our teaching system is in dire need of overhaul. If there is an issue with fairness in our society (and I will grant you that there is), then it needs to be dealt with at the societal level and school is but one small part of that.
I have said before, there is not point giving and iPad to a child who goes home to a family with absentee fathers, or a child who needs to work at the family hawker stall. -
:salute: :goodpost:
Raise both hands and legs! :rahrah:cherryc:
Education system will solve or prevent more social problems in future. Education system will shape our future. Everything is interlinked.
3Boys, I agree with you. We have an issue of social mobility. This is a social problem. Not a GEP or No GEP issue. Not an education system issue.Dnls_mum:
[quote=\"3Boys\"]
I did not say we were the best, but neither do I believe our teaching system is in dire need of overhaul. If there is an issue with fairness in our society (and I will grant you that there is), then it needs to be dealt with at the societal level and school is but one small part of that.
I have said before, there is not point giving and iPad to a child who goes home to a family with absentee fathers, or a child who needs to work at the family hawker stall.
I value GEP and our education system very much as I want the best brains to lead our country in future and compete with the FTs. For that to happen, I wish the deserving ones are selected and correctly nurtured with empathy and values and world class knowledge or skills . I care alot about social mobility because I don't wish the weaker ones in future to have to compete with the FWs or getting handouts. In addition to the fact that I benefited from it and I owe it to the next poor but smart student to voice it out.
And I hope the middle 2%-90% band of students have their potentials fully developed without all the tuitions and unnecessary stress due to teacher-student ratios, insufficient materials, etc.
As Ponyo said it well, \"We are a small little red city state. A life left undeveloped to its fullest potential is one too many already…\". Also we don't have so much resources, tax money etc to to help the poor, to develop the talents (foreign ones also we need to develop) so if we can constantly improve our systems, I don't see why we can't go for it.
One and a half year ago, I would rather enjoy my Saturday going shopping and get my deserved rest then sit down on a computer and write out my concerns. Why ? because I have seen few social problems that worry me now. I am not against abolishing any system because it has served us well thus far. What I hope is accountability, more transparency, more care, more prudent policy, etc. And I am looking forward to tomorrow's speeches and hopefully actions.[/quote] -
Melodies:
My kid does not attend GEP preparatory class. We did not help him prepare for DSA. He just go to GEP selection test, and take the DSA selection test and interview without any preparation assistance from us. My point is, if a person is truly good, you do not need to attend extra lessons to get into GEP. I know for NJC admittance via DSA is not based on performance in the test alone. There is a day camp where they observe the behaviors of the kids in group activities and then in the interview ask them why the do certain things. The school was looking for students with certain quality. But I don't know what specifically.
Under current policies in our education system, firstly, those pupils who have rich parents will have all the resources to enrich themselves for DSA (in whatever domains, GEP, good PSLE results) and hence can get into good secondary and then universities and so on...
Secondly, though poor bright pupils (remembered that they have no tuition with useless textbook, hopefully they got some good teachers along the way) who have reasonably good PSLE results, they are deprived for an opportunity to get into TOP/good sec schools as compared to some who have poorer results but still got into the top schools through DSA.
My son got into NJC via DSA, another one got into SJI via affiliated pri school. Both have people in the secondary school who got in there with better PSLE results then them, but they are doing better then some of these students now. My son in SJI hold leadership position in his core CCA, is a peer support leader and has been asked to take up leadership in his second CCA but declined as we agreed he has too much on his plate. A true leader is not trained from extra lessons or by rich parents. Such leadership positions is free for all and cannot be bought. Ie someone from a poor family can get it too.
Anyone who has done well in PSLE is not deprived of a place in a good secondary school. Why is someone from a poor family deprived of a place in a top secondary school? It cannot happen base on how the S1 posting exercise is done. Those with academically better results get placed first.
It is more like someone from a poor family not being able to do well because of issues at home. Then this person cannot go to a good secondary school. This has nothing to do with our education system, but rather our social issues. What do we have in place to help these children?
Having said all these, I agree that there is a social mobility issue and it is not equal opportunity for all like what some claim. But I do not agree that GEP or DSA affects social mobility. We have a bigger social problem then that, and education is but one of many aspects. In fact GEP ensures that a truly gifted child, irrespective of background and financial ability will be provided with a GEP education and perhaps break out of the poverty vicious cycle.
This thread is about whether GEP is necessary. My point is that social mobility has nothing to do with whether there is GEP or not. -
Dnls_mum:
I agree very much on the pts in blue. I feel our education system on the whole needs fine-tuning, but it has nothing to do with GEP or DSA. But since this is just a thread on whether GEP is necessary, I'll just stop here.
Having said all these, I agree that there is a social mobility issue and it is not equal opportunity for all like what some claim. But I do not agree that GEP or DSA affects social mobility. We have a bigger social problem then that, and education is but one of many aspects. In fact GEP ensures that a truly gifted child, irrespective of background and financial ability will be provided with a GEP education and perhaps break out of the poverty vicious cycle.
This thread is about whether GEP is necessary. My point is that social mobility has nothing to do with whether there is GEP or not.
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