Is GEP really necessary?
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Dnls_mum:
But if I teach them myself, I scared I'll strangle them
I am scared too! So I pray everyday I won't.
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2ppaamm:
True true, got affiliation. But his affiliation not like others. Public cut off 241. Affiliation cut off 238 in his year. But still better then nothing :please: So we Heng lor.
Agree! But your son got affiliation leh... no need to be kiasu lah...Dnls_mum:
It is kiasu parents who insist their children must be top that is making if stressful for their own kids and others. Why must parents insist their kids to be top? I was never top in school,quite the opposite, but I am sure more successful in my career and making more money then many of my top classmates. :imcool: It does not mean that children who move at their own pace will suffer. My non GEp, no HA son is holding leadership position in school that even top students don't get, maybe becos top students have too many KS parents and studying extra so no time :rotflmao: My non GEP non HA son represented the school in UK this June for an international computer competition. But he did not win lah :rotflmao: . But truly, don't need to be GEP or HA or KS parents to have opportunities lor. I say this not out of envy har... I say this because my sons also got affiliation, but daughters don't have, so I know how it is like. 
I'm like you lor... sama sama, got kids on both ends. So for kids without affiliation and no GEP, what options do they have? Don't need to go to top school, I agree! But would you want your kid to end up mixing with the wrong peers? For some, getting 200 is already a challenge, and doing 19x and getting into the express is a celebration. For them, doing their best is simply not enough... just when they managed to catch up, others have done better, so their engines keep going...chasing and chasing after that curve in order not to be on the left of that bell... never ending and never quite catch up... sad to see...
What has got GEP or no GEP to do with right or wrong peers? I don't want my kid to mix with wrong crowd, but don't need him to mix with GEP or HA kids only. And he doesn't lor.
Are you saying if change to your system, then all will score 260? Then base on bell curve, need 300 to top lor.
I am sure in your adopted country also got those that last in class. Cannot be all first right? That is why in countries like USA, not all grads are the same. Grad also cannot be assured of good jobs. Then become degree inflation only 
If want everything equal, then need communism :rotflmao: But we have seem that communism has also failed. 
Nothing is fair in this world. It never is and it never will be. I try to make the best of what I have and hope for the same for my kids. My worry is with FTs squeezing out our native Singaporeans. No other country in the world is as liberal as ours with immigration. If this trend does not reverse, change what education system, do what accellerated path also no use. We have bigger problems in this country. -
Melodies:
May I just check with you who will you hire and who has a higher potential between these two applicants below?:
Candidate 1 - an application with a PHD in BA/finance/Economics from Harvard at 23 year-old
Candidate 2 - an application with a Bachelor in BA/finance/Economics from NUS at 23 YO
At least I know candidate 1will definitely stand out between these two and will have VERY high potential in his career development in my industries!Dnls_mum:
I suppose as a banker, I am looking at the business world, my world. And it does seem to me that those under such accelerated path may not suitable in the business world. Their career path seems more geared towards academic and research. So I suppose this is not for everyone. I know for sure I have never wanted to be an academic or researcher myself. Somehow I have never dreamed of or encouraged my children to be academics or researchers too :? Maybe because i am an evil banker :rotflmao:
I presume such accelerated path normally takes a home schooling path and is specifically targeted at moving faster along the academic path without need of being held back by classmates and school curriculum. I just cannot imagine eg a practicing lawyer, banker succeeding under this path as life experiences, stress etc needs to be part their education as these will have a bearing in determining how successful they will be in their chosen career. A formal school environment is necessary for some jobs. .
So the question parents should ask themselves is do they want to decide for their child at their young age, the career path that is open to them, or do they want to let their children discover what is available in this world and let them choose themselves what they want to do.
I'll not pick the PhD. Those good at studies not necessary good at work. Conversely, too highly educated cannot bring themselves down to communicate with normal people. Just like our ministers lor :rotflmao:
I am in front line sales and I speak from personal experience. Those who are too smart think they know everything and do not listen to what their clients really want. They think they know what their client wants.
In my experience PHD, especially mathematician only good in dealing room. And then even some cannot succeed because no EQ. Too smart, no one else understand them or can communicate with them. These people too academic and not in touch with real world.
In my world, degree only get you started. After that it is on the job performance that count. Whether you can make money for the bank. -
Hi Dnls_mum, I'm so sorry about your bad experiences with those high qualification candidates. I have interacted with many of them from Ivy-leagued Uni and they are all very articulate, charisma and extremely smart and effective. They are very down-to earth too and easy to work with. Not nerdy at all! No, they are not like our ministers... not at all!!
Dnls_mum:
I'll not pick the PhD. Those good at studies not necessary good at work. Conversely, too highly educated cannot bring themselves down to communicate with normal people. Just like our ministers lor :rotflmao:
I am in front line sales and I speak from personal experience. Those who are too smart think they know everything and do not listen to what their clients really want. They think they know what their client wants.
In my experience PHD, especially mathematician only good in dealing room. And then even some cannot succeed because no EQ. Too smart, no one else understand them or can communicate with them. These people too academic and not in touch with real world. -
Dnls_mum:
:goodpost:
I'll not pick the PhD. Those good at studies not necessary good at work. Conversely, too highly educated cannot bring themselves down to communicate with normal people. Just like our ministers lor :rotflmao:
I am in front line sales and I speak from personal experience. Those who are too smart think they know everything and do not listen to what their clients really want. They think they know what their client wants.
In my experience PHD, especially mathematician only good in dealing room. And then even some cannot succeed because no EQ. Too smart, no one else understand them or can communicate with them. These people too academic and not in touch with real world.
In my world, degree only get you started. After that it is on the job performance that count. Whether you can make money for the bank. -
Melodies:
Hi Dnls_mum, I'm so sorry about your bad experiences with those high qualification candidate. I have interacted with many of them from Ivy-leagued Uni and they are all very articulate, charisma and extremely smart and effective. They are very down-to earth too and easy to work with. Not nerdy at all! No, they are not like our ministers... not at all!!
Dnls_mum:
I'll not pick the PhD. Those good at studies not necessary good at work. Conversely, too highly educated cannot bring themselves down to communicate with normal people. Just like our ministers lor :rotflmao:
I am in front line sales and I speak from personal experience. Those who are too smart think they know everything and do not listen to what their clients really want. They think they know what their client wants.
In my experience PHD, especially mathematician only good in dealing room. And then even some cannot succeed because no EQ. Too smart, no one else understand them or can communicate with them. These people too academic and not in touch with real world.
They are very smart and very articulate, no doubt. I don't deny. But the problem is my customers are not PHDs. They are normal people. In this world, customer is always right :). I need them to be able to communicate with normal people. :). I have not come across a successful sales person who is a PHD. Maybe my world too small.
But if you already made up your mind, why you ask me in the first place??? -
Dnls_mum:
Melodies:
Hi Dnls_mum, I'm so sorry about your bad experiences with those high qualification candidate. I have interacted with many of them from Ivy-leagued Uni and they are all very articulate, charisma and extremely smart and effective. They are very down-to earth too and easy to work with. Not nerdy at all! No, they are not like our ministers... not at all!!
[quote=\"Dnls_mum\"]
I'll not pick the PhD. Those good at studies not necessary good at work. Conversely, too highly educated cannot bring themselves down to communicate with normal people. Just like our ministers lor :rotflmao:
I am in front line sales and I speak from personal experience. Those who are too smart think they know everything and do not listen to what their clients really want. They think they know what their client wants.
In my experience PHD, especially mathematician only good in dealing room. And then even some cannot succeed because no EQ. Too smart, no one else understand them or can communicate with them. These people too academic and not in touch with real world.
They are very smart and very articulate, no doubt. I don't deny. But the problem is my customers are not PHDs. They are normal people. In this world, customer is always right :). I need them to be able to communicate with normal people. :). I have not come across a successful sales person who is a PHD. Maybe my world too small.
But if you already made up your mind, why you ask me in the first place???[/quote]On the contrary, I think your world quite quite quite large. -
I have already said that they will stand out in my industries but I'm not sure about your banking industry. Say if communication and people skills are not a problem at all, between these two two candidates, will you still choose the one without PHD?
Dnls_mum:
Melodies:
Hi Dnls_mum, I'm so sorry about your bad experiences with those high qualification candidate. I have interacted with many of them from Ivy-leagued Uni and they are all very articulate, charisma and extremely smart and effective. They are very down-to earth too and easy to work with. Not nerdy at all! No, they are not like our ministers... not at all!!
[quote=\"Dnls_mum\"]
I'll not pick the PhD. Those good at studies not necessary good at work. Conversely, too highly educated cannot bring themselves down to communicate with normal people. Just like our ministers lor :rotflmao:
I am in front line sales and I speak from personal experience. Those who are too smart think they know everything and do not listen to what their clients really want. They think they know what their client wants.
In my experience PHD, especially mathematician only good in dealing room. And then even some cannot succeed because no EQ. Too smart, no one else understand them or can communicate with them. These people too academic and not in touch with real world.
They are very smart and very articulate, no doubt. I don't deny. But the problem is my customers are not PHDs. They are normal people. In this world, customer is always right :). I need them to be able to communicate with normal people. :). I have not come across a successful sales person who is a PHD. Maybe my world too small.
But if you already made up your mind, why you ask me in the first place???[/quote] -
Melodies:
I have already said that they will stand out in my industries but I'm not sure about your banking industry. Say if communication and people skills are not a problem at all, between these two two candidates, will you still choose the one without PHD?
Dnls_mum:
[/quote]I will choose the Singaporean! :evil:Melodies:
Hi Dnls_mum, I'm so sorry about your bad experiences with those high qualification candidate. I have interacted with many of them from Ivy-leagued Uni and they are all very articulate, charisma and extremely smart and effective. They are very down-to earth too and easy to work with. Not nerdy at all! No, they are not like our ministers... not at all!!
[quote=\"Dnls_mum\"]
I'll not pick the PhD. Those good at studies not necessary good at work. Conversely, too highly educated cannot bring themselves down to communicate with normal people. Just like our ministers lor :rotflmao:
I am in front line sales and I speak from personal experience. Those who are too smart think they know everything and do not listen to what their clients really want. They think they know what their client wants.
In my experience PHD, especially mathematician only good in dealing room. And then even some cannot succeed because no EQ. Too smart, no one else understand them or can communicate with them. These people too academic and not in touch with real world.
They are very smart and very articulate, no doubt. I don't deny. But the problem is my customers are not PHDs. They are normal people. In this world, customer is always right :). I need them to be able to communicate with normal people. :). I have not come across a successful sales person who is a PHD. Maybe my world too small.
But if you already made up your mind, why you ask me in the first place??? -
Dnls_mum:
Dnls_mom :
Nothing is fair in this world. It never is and it never will be. I try to make the best of what I have and hope for the same for my kids. My worry is with FTs squeezing out our native Singaporeans. No other country in the world is as liberal as ours with immigration. If this trend does not reverse, change what education system, do what accellerated path also no use. We have bigger problems in this country.
\"Those who are too smart think they know everything and do not listen to what their clients really want. They think they know what their client wants.\"
\"And then even some cannot succeed because no EQ. Too smart, no one else understand them or can communicate with them. These people too academic and not in touch with real world.\"
\"I need them to be able to communicate with normal people.\"
You have raised all the valid points and I hope our education system will produce people with the desirable qualities who can think of practical, comprehensive, yet out of the box ideas for the country or in any profession they are in. Then we don't have to worry many other things like FT as you mentioned ?
On a separate note, I was reading about kiasu being our \"value\" now (\"Being 'kiasu' is top value in Singapore society, survey finds\") , I was thinking we didn't grow up with that value system. Maybe it was more like we have nothing to lose then rather than scared to lose in the past that propelled some of us to achieve unimaginable achievements for ourselves and for our country ? And I hope we can keep that magical and powerful spirit.
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