Is GEP really necessary?
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Hi Dnls_mum, I'm so sorry about your bad experiences with those high qualification candidates. I have interacted with many of them from Ivy-leagued Uni and they are all very articulate, charisma and extremely smart and effective. They are very down-to earth too and easy to work with. Not nerdy at all! No, they are not like our ministers... not at all!!
Dnls_mum:
I'll not pick the PhD. Those good at studies not necessary good at work. Conversely, too highly educated cannot bring themselves down to communicate with normal people. Just like our ministers lor :rotflmao:
I am in front line sales and I speak from personal experience. Those who are too smart think they know everything and do not listen to what their clients really want. They think they know what their client wants.
In my experience PHD, especially mathematician only good in dealing room. And then even some cannot succeed because no EQ. Too smart, no one else understand them or can communicate with them. These people too academic and not in touch with real world. -
Dnls_mum:
:goodpost:
I'll not pick the PhD. Those good at studies not necessary good at work. Conversely, too highly educated cannot bring themselves down to communicate with normal people. Just like our ministers lor :rotflmao:
I am in front line sales and I speak from personal experience. Those who are too smart think they know everything and do not listen to what their clients really want. They think they know what their client wants.
In my experience PHD, especially mathematician only good in dealing room. And then even some cannot succeed because no EQ. Too smart, no one else understand them or can communicate with them. These people too academic and not in touch with real world.
In my world, degree only get you started. After that it is on the job performance that count. Whether you can make money for the bank. -
Melodies:
Hi Dnls_mum, I'm so sorry about your bad experiences with those high qualification candidate. I have interacted with many of them from Ivy-leagued Uni and they are all very articulate, charisma and extremely smart and effective. They are very down-to earth too and easy to work with. Not nerdy at all! No, they are not like our ministers... not at all!!
Dnls_mum:
I'll not pick the PhD. Those good at studies not necessary good at work. Conversely, too highly educated cannot bring themselves down to communicate with normal people. Just like our ministers lor :rotflmao:
I am in front line sales and I speak from personal experience. Those who are too smart think they know everything and do not listen to what their clients really want. They think they know what their client wants.
In my experience PHD, especially mathematician only good in dealing room. And then even some cannot succeed because no EQ. Too smart, no one else understand them or can communicate with them. These people too academic and not in touch with real world.
They are very smart and very articulate, no doubt. I don't deny. But the problem is my customers are not PHDs. They are normal people. In this world, customer is always right :). I need them to be able to communicate with normal people. :). I have not come across a successful sales person who is a PHD. Maybe my world too small.
But if you already made up your mind, why you ask me in the first place??? -
Dnls_mum:
Melodies:
Hi Dnls_mum, I'm so sorry about your bad experiences with those high qualification candidate. I have interacted with many of them from Ivy-leagued Uni and they are all very articulate, charisma and extremely smart and effective. They are very down-to earth too and easy to work with. Not nerdy at all! No, they are not like our ministers... not at all!!
[quote=\"Dnls_mum\"]
I'll not pick the PhD. Those good at studies not necessary good at work. Conversely, too highly educated cannot bring themselves down to communicate with normal people. Just like our ministers lor :rotflmao:
I am in front line sales and I speak from personal experience. Those who are too smart think they know everything and do not listen to what their clients really want. They think they know what their client wants.
In my experience PHD, especially mathematician only good in dealing room. And then even some cannot succeed because no EQ. Too smart, no one else understand them or can communicate with them. These people too academic and not in touch with real world.
They are very smart and very articulate, no doubt. I don't deny. But the problem is my customers are not PHDs. They are normal people. In this world, customer is always right :). I need them to be able to communicate with normal people. :). I have not come across a successful sales person who is a PHD. Maybe my world too small.
But if you already made up your mind, why you ask me in the first place???[/quote]On the contrary, I think your world quite quite quite large. -
I have already said that they will stand out in my industries but I'm not sure about your banking industry. Say if communication and people skills are not a problem at all, between these two two candidates, will you still choose the one without PHD?
Dnls_mum:
Melodies:
Hi Dnls_mum, I'm so sorry about your bad experiences with those high qualification candidate. I have interacted with many of them from Ivy-leagued Uni and they are all very articulate, charisma and extremely smart and effective. They are very down-to earth too and easy to work with. Not nerdy at all! No, they are not like our ministers... not at all!!
[quote=\"Dnls_mum\"]
I'll not pick the PhD. Those good at studies not necessary good at work. Conversely, too highly educated cannot bring themselves down to communicate with normal people. Just like our ministers lor :rotflmao:
I am in front line sales and I speak from personal experience. Those who are too smart think they know everything and do not listen to what their clients really want. They think they know what their client wants.
In my experience PHD, especially mathematician only good in dealing room. And then even some cannot succeed because no EQ. Too smart, no one else understand them or can communicate with them. These people too academic and not in touch with real world.
They are very smart and very articulate, no doubt. I don't deny. But the problem is my customers are not PHDs. They are normal people. In this world, customer is always right :). I need them to be able to communicate with normal people. :). I have not come across a successful sales person who is a PHD. Maybe my world too small.
But if you already made up your mind, why you ask me in the first place???[/quote] -
Melodies:
I have already said that they will stand out in my industries but I'm not sure about your banking industry. Say if communication and people skills are not a problem at all, between these two two candidates, will you still choose the one without PHD?
Dnls_mum:
[/quote]I will choose the Singaporean! :evil:Melodies:
Hi Dnls_mum, I'm so sorry about your bad experiences with those high qualification candidate. I have interacted with many of them from Ivy-leagued Uni and they are all very articulate, charisma and extremely smart and effective. They are very down-to earth too and easy to work with. Not nerdy at all! No, they are not like our ministers... not at all!!
[quote=\"Dnls_mum\"]
I'll not pick the PhD. Those good at studies not necessary good at work. Conversely, too highly educated cannot bring themselves down to communicate with normal people. Just like our ministers lor :rotflmao:
I am in front line sales and I speak from personal experience. Those who are too smart think they know everything and do not listen to what their clients really want. They think they know what their client wants.
In my experience PHD, especially mathematician only good in dealing room. And then even some cannot succeed because no EQ. Too smart, no one else understand them or can communicate with them. These people too academic and not in touch with real world.
They are very smart and very articulate, no doubt. I don't deny. But the problem is my customers are not PHDs. They are normal people. In this world, customer is always right :). I need them to be able to communicate with normal people. :). I have not come across a successful sales person who is a PHD. Maybe my world too small.
But if you already made up your mind, why you ask me in the first place??? -
Dnls_mum:
Dnls_mom :
Nothing is fair in this world. It never is and it never will be. I try to make the best of what I have and hope for the same for my kids. My worry is with FTs squeezing out our native Singaporeans. No other country in the world is as liberal as ours with immigration. If this trend does not reverse, change what education system, do what accellerated path also no use. We have bigger problems in this country.
\"Those who are too smart think they know everything and do not listen to what their clients really want. They think they know what their client wants.\"
\"And then even some cannot succeed because no EQ. Too smart, no one else understand them or can communicate with them. These people too academic and not in touch with real world.\"
\"I need them to be able to communicate with normal people.\"
You have raised all the valid points and I hope our education system will produce people with the desirable qualities who can think of practical, comprehensive, yet out of the box ideas for the country or in any profession they are in. Then we don't have to worry many other things like FT as you mentioned ?
On a separate note, I was reading about kiasu being our \"value\" now (\"Being 'kiasu' is top value in Singapore society, survey finds\") , I was thinking we didn't grow up with that value system. Maybe it was more like we have nothing to lose then rather than scared to lose in the past that propelled some of us to achieve unimaginable achievements for ourselves and for our country ? And I hope we can keep that magical and powerful spirit. -
cherryc:
I sincerely hope so too.
Dnls_mom :Dnls_mum:
Nothing is fair in this world. It never is and it never will be. I try to make the best of what I have and hope for the same for my kids. My worry is with FTs squeezing out our native Singaporeans. No other country in the world is as liberal as ours with immigration. If this trend does not reverse, change what education system, do what accellerated path also no use. We have bigger problems in this country.
\"Those who are too smart think they know everything and do not listen to what their clients really want. They think they know what their client wants.\"
\"And then even some cannot succeed because no EQ. Too smart, no one else understand them or can communicate with them. These people too academic and not in touch with real world.\"
\"I need them to be able to communicate with normal people.\"
You have raised all the valid points and I hope our education system will produce people with the desirable qualities who can think of practical, comprehensive, yet out of the box ideas for the country or in any profession they are in. Then we don't have to worry many other things like FT as you mentioned ?
On a separate note, I was reading about kiasu being our \"value\" now (\"Being 'kiasu' is top value in Singapore society, survey finds\") , I was thinking we didn't grow up with that value system. Maybe it was more like we have nothing to lose then rather than scared to lose in the past that propelled some of us to achieve unimaginable achievements for ourselves and for our country ? And I hope we can keep that inexplicable spirit.
And I think parents play a part too. We have a choice how we want to bring up our kids. 10 tuitions? It is a personal choice Cannot just blame the system.
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2ppaamm:
Thanks for replying. I understand from your point of views. I will try my best to put my point across. (I am better in talking than writing when comes to express my thought.) The reason why I post this question is that somewhere in this thread, someone mentioned that too much resources have already been poured into GEP programme and sort of expect some kind of output/result from them in the long term. In my dd's class, there are quite a few of PR kids and I have nothing against them. Well, it just that during one of the coversation when one of the mummy shared that her dd would go oversea where she can get free education if she does not want to continue sec school in Singapore. (US citizen) I sort of huh.... what if after all the gep education, these kids just left Singapore and the question I asked myself is : Is it justify to 'invest' in them in GEP from Singaporean point of view? Or is it better to have more Singaporean benefiting from this programme? If this is off topic here, please ignore.comfy:
I have a questoin : Is Gep still necessary if most of the geppers are PR?
My thinking is towards identifying and giving an enriched program to the gifted and HA are necessarily, but should not be restricted to one group identified at P3, and should be continually revisited. They should also be expected to perform academically well (they are chosen for academic reasons), and all should have a chance at enrichment program as and when they are ready. There should not be a differentiated group (like a class of GEPpers), but groups of students pulled out from a standard class of bigger variance in abilities (notice I didn't say mixed), and pulled out for their areas of interest and strengths. That does not mean a child can only be pulled out for only one subject. Everyone should master the base curriculum first and then be enriched. Hence, nobody should be given extra benefit at PSLE, or DSA.
Given that, my stand is the same whether or not PRs are involved. For me, these are different policies. One involves migration, another involves education. If the imigration department decides that a family/person deserves a PR, the duty of the education department is to ensure this family/person receives an equal opportunity in education. -
cherryc:
:goodpost:In a wide-ranging interview with former GIC chief economist Yeoh Lam Keong, Yahoo! Singapore’s JEANETTE TAN finds out what he thinks are the key challenges Singapore faces in its quest for continued economic development. This is the second of a three-part series entitled “Behind Singapore Inc.” that takes a look at the country’s key policies and governance. In Part II interview :
The real cost of education
Turning to Singapore’s education system which is heavily subsidised, Yeoh said the cost of private tuition is skewing matters out of whack.
Currently, a Singaporean child going through government-aided mainstream schools pays roughly $11 per month at primary school level, about $21 at secondary school, and about $27 per month at junior college or at a centralised institute.
Even at university level, Singaporean and permanent resident (PR) students attending local university courses benefit greatly from substantive grants provided by the Ministry of Education.
But these benign fee structures mask the real cost of schooling in Singapore when one takes in the cost of private tuition, says Yeoh.
“If you have a kid who has tuition in two or three subjects, that easily costs close to $1,000 (per month) or often even much more,” he says. “A lot of people also feel that at primary 6, they need to send their kids for tuition in three to four core subjects, so that adds up to more than $1,500 per month, perhaps even $2,000.”
But is private tuition really necessary?
Yeoh argues it is because of two key reasons — first, because of insufficient teaching resources for what is becoming an unnecessarily difficult curriculum and second, because class sizes are too large.
Making matters worse is the various possible paths in primary and secondary education alone — from the gifted programme to the through-train, and a wide range of elective programmes offered at secondary and junior college level.
It is no wonder parents become “kiasu” to ensure their children get the best opportunities and the most choices, said Yeoh.
His solution? Cut down class sizes and do away with unnecessary streaming.
“This would require higher education expenditure, but it will be less stressful for both students and teachers, and (the former) can actually be taught in school instead of at home (through tuition),” he adds, pointing out that the average OECD country spends about 6 per cent of its GDP on education, as compared to Singapore, which spends roughly 3.8 per cent.
http://sg.news.yahoo.com/behind-singapore-inc--part-ii---%E2%80%98gov%E2%80%99t-must-rethink-delivery-of-public-services%E2%80%99.html
Awaiting his In Part III of “Behind Singapore Inc.”, Yeoh reflects on the changing personality of the ruling People’s Action Party and its leaders.
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