Is GEP really necessary?
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2ppaamm:
Once again, I would like to point out that the word \"best\" has many definitions.
To be very honest, my son found the topics not challenging at all at GEP. Tell you what is really hard for him to cope. The expectations of the teachers that he could not understand at all. Not the work. I found it complicated too, that they cannot mark their students' work and have to meet with 8 other schools etc etc. That they could not understand the vocab he was using. This is comical to me. Sometimes, I think the teachers are just as lost, and kept looking for MOE for directions. :siao: On one hand, they are the best teachers, on another, they cannot handle the kids. What's wrong with these folks. And then, have to mark together?
What is a \"best\" teacher? A teacher who can make the lessons interesting? A teacher who has lots of academic knowledge? A teacher who is hardworking and dedicated?
I'm inclined to feel that GEP teachers are those who are able to make the lessons interesting. They are able to engage and facilitate the discussion of ideas.
Besides, the meeting with other teachers is probably to standardise marks, not so much as to discuss on what the essay means.
No one ever said that teachers must have more out-of-syllabus (general) knowledge than students. Didn't I just show you that the GEP kid taught the GEP teacher how to solve a 3-dimensional Schroedinger equation (solution is vastly different for different elements, quarks, bosons, fermions and leptons)?
But that doesn't mean the teacher is incapable. As long as the teacher is able to inspire and empower, he/she has done her job. -
ForumWriter:
Sadly, this doesn't work outside of GEP, because everyone will misunderstand and say you are an arrogant elitist.2ppaamm:
Point proven. 2ppaamm is definitely not from the GEP.When you are truly bright, there are people holding guns out ready to shoot you, looking for your faults and your 'hao-lian-ness'. And with this terrible attitude, he is asking for maximum trouble. Problem is, GEP has the problem of breeding this sad, false, overinflated ego within the children.
That's exactly why GEP students can't continue this once they have left the programme.
Too many people focus on \"holding guns out ready to shoot\", but don't reflect on themselves why they gave others an opportunity to make that statement in the first place (i.e. why they are unable to score well). Most of the time, it's simply because they didn't concentrate and didn't work hard, not because they are much less intelligent. If a student is only slightly less intelligent than his/her peers, as with students in top schools, hard work can still make up for the disparity.
Academics is not simply a matter of intelligence. Didn't my statement above just prove that competitive spirit can drive people to achieve greater heights through hard work?
People need to learn to quit denouncing others as \"arrogant\" and \"elitist\" and learn how to deal with such remarks. People need to learn to react positively instead of letting emotions take over.
In the future, if the boss says \"you suck\", are they going to work harder or sit back in a corner and cry? -
ForumWriter:
:rotflmao: of course not. i'm too old! during our time, we don't even know our PSLE subject results unless we did splendidly. i was fortunate to do well enough to know i topped my psle cohort, which does not mean a thing.ForumWriter:
Sadly, this doesn't work outside of GEP, because everyone will misunderstand and say you are an arrogant elitist.2ppaamm:
Point proven. 2ppaamm is definitely not from the GEP.When you are truly bright, there are people holding guns out ready to shoot you, looking for your faults and your 'hao-lian-ness'. And with this terrible attitude, he is asking for maximum trouble. Problem is, GEP has the problem of breeding this sad, false, overinflated ego within the children.
That's exactly why GEP students can't continue this once they have left the programme.
Too many people focus on \"holding guns out ready to shoot\", but don't reflect on themselves why they gave others an opportunity to make that statement in the first place (i.e. why they are unable to score well). Most of the time, it's simply because they didn't concentrate and didn't work hard, not because they are much less intelligent. If a student is only slightly less intelligent than his/her peers, as with students in top schools, hard work can still make up for the disparity.
Academics is not simply a matter of intelligence. Didn't my statement above just prove that competitive spirit can drive people to achieve greater heights through hard work?
People need to learn to quit denouncing others as \"arrogant\" and \"elitist\" and learn how to deal with such remarks. People need to learn to react positively instead of letting emotions take over.
In the future, if the boss says \"you suck\", are they going to work harder or sit back in a corner and cry?
We are at different levels, as you clearly pointed out, I'm not interested to talk about my credentials to prove my point, and apparently, this is important in this discussion. I think you have forgotten that many parents here are great achievers, from PhD, to professors, to scholars, high ranking government officials, who are writing in nicknames. Some might have become homemakers but nonetheless smart and capable. \"Elitist\" has nothing to do with which school you come from, or which stream you went to. If by that definition, I am an elitist, too. But I am not. People don't mind working and chatting with you, and will never call you an elitist if you are humble and fun to work with, and not excessively competitive, or talk no end about where you come from. Humility is the key to survive, as I have learnt. GEP+lack of humility is the worst combination ever. With your humility, people are kinder to your mistakes, gentler with their comments, easier with their promotions, and more generous with their goodwill. And, no matter how great we are intellectually, everyone of us benefits from grace and mercy. Well, I have said enough, I guess you will have to figure that out when faced with those problems real-life.
So, here. I'm out of here :siam: because I am not GEP, as most parents old enough would not be, as you have clearly pointed out, and I am sure you will be enlightened on what I said one day. BTW, no boss has ever said I suck, and as a boss, I have never ever said that either, there's always a civilized way of putting things, and attract people saying civilized things to us and I never had to sit in a corner and cry, and neither have I made anyone cry save same retrenchment. I work hard not because I want to be better than my colleagues, but because I want to add value to the organization and contribute to the society as whole so that my existence counts with a good purpose. Consequently, I am always a top performer at all my jobs for the last 20+ years. When the competition is within and not without, the achievement and inner peace transcends the temporal trophies you can get from beating your closest competitor. It is something so profound, no GEP can teach you, neither can I, only life can. Unfortunately, in many schools, societies and especially in GEP, they teach the opposite, stressing the importance of senseless competition, and the joy of beating just a peer.
And, we don't have to be emotional about things, especially in KSP. I am never emotional about things outside family, so I guess that's not targeted at me. :imcool: -
:censored: :boogie:
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ForumWriter:
:rotflmao:
Point proven. 2ppaamm is definitely not from the GEP.
Forum Writer, you obviously have no clue who 2ppaamm is to pass this remark......*hint* - go search in this forum a bit of her background and you will be :yikes: :oops: for passing such remark... :spank:
2ppaamm is probably one of the cleverest persons you will ever 'meet' in this forum...no need to be from GEP... She old era one lah no GEP yet
:evil: :rotflmao:
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Snow Crystal:
No leh... I know of people much wiser and smarter than me in this forum. For one, I know you know a lot about the local education system and all those insider/details information better than me! I was shocked by the kind of details you know, the numbers of each cohort etc! So much research. We are all good in different ways, there is no such thing as who is cleverer or who is the smartest. We are all different, we are all the same. We learn from each other. :grphug:
:rotflmao:ForumWriter:
Point proven. 2ppaamm is definitely not from the GEP.
Forum Writer, you obviously have no clue who 2ppaamm is to pass this remark......*hint* - go search in this forum a bit of her background and you will be :yikes: :oops: for passing such remark... :spank:
2ppaamm is probably one of the cleverest persons you will ever 'meet' in this forum...no need to be from GEP... She old era one lah no GEP yet :evil: :rotflmao: -
2ppaamm:
We are all different, we are all the same. We learn from each other. :grphug:
That makes this forum and this thread more interesting :boogie:
Good to see your postings ...have been silently reading your comments...
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2ppaamm:
Applause! That leads me to think, after London Olympic, there were some arguments about whether Michael Phelps is the Greatest Olympic Medalist? To which, he was quoted to be \"very satisfying with myself\". I intend to agree with Pam, it was not others he competed with, he had been always competing with his own PB. Maybe, if there were no Michael Phelps, there would not be Ryan Lochte, but certainly not other way round.
It is the inquiry mind, the need to excel beyond oneself, the desire to improve current state of affairs that drive innovations. Nobody is there to compare and compete with you at the pinnacle, it is you against yourself, that's how great people create new things. Not by comparing and sparring against friends or foes, these are done at only very young or low levels where there are just too many people to compete with. Who did Einstein or Terry Tao compete with? Do a little check on homeschooled children. They fair well and better against school going children in many countries. Who do they compete with? THEMSELVES. :offtopic: Gifted in sports though.
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2ppaamm,
Hi 2ppaamm,
I'm one of your audience too. I like this part you wrote: At the pinnacle, it is not about competition that makes people create, invent and go beyond boundaries. It is the inquiry mind, the need to excel beyond oneself, the desire to improve current state of affairs that drive innovations. Nobody is there to compare and compete with you at the pinnacle, it is you against yourself, that's how great people create new things. Not by comparing and sparring against friends or foes, these are done at only very young or low levels where there are just too many people to compete with. Who did Einstein or Terry Tao compete with? Do a little check on homeschooled children. They fair well and better against school going children in many countries. Who do they compete with? THEMSELVES.
Well said!
:goodpost: -
2ppaamm:
I have taught thousands of high performing students who go on and head organizations, including GEPpers, and so my definition could be very different from others with different experiences.
Once again, I would like to point out that the word \"best\" has many definitions.ForumWriter:
[quote=\"2ppaamm\"]
To be very honest, my son found the topics not challenging at all at GEP. Tell you what is really hard for him to cope. The expectations of the teachers that he could not understand at all. Not the work. I found it complicated too, that they cannot mark their students' work and have to meet with 8 other schools etc etc. That they could not understand the vocab he was using. This is comical to me. Sometimes, I think the teachers are just as lost, and kept looking for MOE for directions. :siao: On one hand, they are the best teachers, on another, they cannot handle the kids. What's wrong with these folks. And then, have to mark together?
What is a \"best\" teacher? A teacher who can make the lessons interesting? A teacher who has lots of academic knowledge? A teacher who is hardworking and dedicated?
I'm inclined to feel that GEP teachers are those who are able to make the lessons interesting. They are able to engage and facilitate the discussion of ideas.
Besides, the meeting with other teachers is probably to standardise marks, not so much as to discuss on what the essay means.
No one ever said that teachers must have more out-of-syllabus (general) knowledge than students. Didn't I just show you that the GEP kid taught the GEP teacher how to solve a 3-dimensional Schroedinger equation (solution is vastly different for different elements, quarks, bosons, fermions and leptons)?
But that doesn't mean the teacher is incapable. As long as the teacher is able to inspire and empower, he/she has done her job.
I have a problem with this silly way to standardise, which is not present anywhere at a higher level. My 12 year old can tell you 30 in a school is enough to normalize, so this practice of bell-curving serves no purpose at all except to create a 'chasing the bell-curve' effect which is of no purpose to learning.
You are DEAD WRONG about competition spurring excellence. WRONG. At the pinnacle, it is not about competition that makes people create, invent and go beyond boundaries. It is the inquiry mind, the need to excel beyond oneself, the desire to improve current state of affairs that drive innovations. Nobody is there to compare and compete with you at the pinnacle, it is you against yourself, that's how great people create new things. Not by comparing and sparring against friends or foes, these are done at only very young or low levels where there are just too many people to compete with. Who did Einstein or Terry Tao compete with? Do a little check on homeschooled children. They fair well and better against school going children in many countries. Who do they compete with? THEMSELVES.
That's what I am laughing about. That there is a lack of empowerment to the teachers to decide when we are told they are the best. Consequently, we have a bunch of capable teacher incapacitated by a dysfunctional system/mentality.
ALL (not just best) teachers must at least have the confidence that they can judge a student's work given by them, and ALL teachers must be able to offer consistent grading. Even simple standardized tests like SAT, GCE, university exams, you don't expect all the markers to gather to discuss each student's work and standardize marks, do you? :siao: We have a set of guidelines and we just follow and everything will be standardized. As it is, the teachers have been robbed of their own confidence, relying on their answer sheet or refer to GEB, anything out of the norm, refer to GEB. Which, btw, is no different from Singapore's mainstream where teachers are so afraid of making mistakes, they don't decide.
[/quote]
I am creative. In the presence of competition, I freeze. You create best when you play... when you do something for the love of it. When you are driven by something inside of you, not outside.
Excellent post 2ppaamm!! :goodpost:
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