Is GEP really necessary?
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ksi:
Firstly, I am not championing against GEP, I am saying it is time to revamp and do something about the system, and I have given reasons why it does not work. Giftedness can be handled in a more equitable and sensible way, with the gifted kid's needs met.Dear 2ppaamm,
Appreciate and like your sharing of your children's less travelled path for Singapore kids to be inspired....but...
If your GEP son is still in GEP today, will you campaign so hard against GEP? :? Just wondering....
Secondly, my kids do not fit into the current GEP, though I used to think that's the only place suitable, since they don't fit into mainstream, but now, I have grown to understand they don't fit into school in general. So, my kids are really not in the discussion here, especially since all of them are out of the school system, by choice.
Let me explain why GEP would have been very wrong for my children, since I have a taste of it. My older kids were not in GEP because some preferred not to do the test. And, the smartest among the older ones took the test and did not make it. So, I thought GEPpers were some kind of genius. I had opportunities to conduct classes for GEPpers the same age or older than my son, so I prepared my work at high level, and taught them. To my horror, I couldn't find ONE who could think fast and understand me like my children or children in my extended family. Then, I realized, maybe GEP is not so bright afterall. That was back in 2005. After that, none of my kids opted to do GEP selection tests, until the #4. He was persuaded by the school to take, and he went into GEP.
GEP is a shock to me, the experience with them was enlightening! Suffice to say I am shocked that educators should have the kind of mentality they unabashedly displayed - the nonchalance to individual needs, and their need to prove they are right and superior versus their need to nurture the young. I am so glad to have found alternatives.
GEP would have been very wrong for ALL my children simply because they did not fit into MOE's definition of giftedness, they way they think, and they way they are brought up.
I don't care whether my kids are gifted or not. Many find it hard to believe, but I still have a problem believing they are gifted, simply because I understand giftedness has nothing to do with achievement. My kids have achieved the extraordinary, but I'd like to tell them they are ordinary people doing extraordinary things. If my kids were in the GEP system, they would not have achieved the ordinary things they have. Why.
Firstly, GEP robs me of a chance to plan a suitable education path for my children, because they think they know better. Maybe they are experts, but I know my kid. They will tell me to do this, do that, and being me, I always research and find better alternatives. So, if my kids were in GEP, they will be like the rest, fighting for PSLE scores, have mummy do their projects since their teachers will want to match up with the other 8 schools' expectations, etc. But because I no longer am hampered by all these, my kids get to do what I think is important: to maximize their potential and pursue their dreams.
Secondly, GEP robs me of time. Though none has ever gone to tuition, there is a ton of homework to do, a lot of projects I found meaningless, not because of the content, but the expectation of the teachers. They expect kids to put up professional work which then require adult supervision. I believe they should just submit their own work for marking, instead of having the teacher mark and re-mark and then submit to MOE and the 9 schools compare. Whose work is being marked? Teachers', parents' or kids'? Also, my kid won't do the homework, because it is repetitive. My kids have 'character' :frustrated: or whatever you call that. Once they have learned something, they expect to be fed new information or moved to the next level. There is no way they will do that thing again another 20 times. While I understand high ability kids will, my kids won't and most of my time was spent asking them to comply and do those, knowing they have already mastered the topics. There was a lot of fighting, which, when I think of it now, simply painful and senseless if we really think about it. Now, I spend time doing other things with them, including flying a beautiful kite yesterday for the whole evening.
I think that's about it. GEP hampers us, but my son loved the friends. I am thankful for those years there because of those great friends he made, but you know, that doesn't mean the system is perfect. Plus, the branding of GEP is not necessarily good, as I can hear some kids talking and thinking like they are better than their peers. These are not good for my kids. My belief is the same - they are ordinary and I want them to blend in. Life is fair and the earth is a globe: what goes around comes back around, if we rob some kids of their opportunities, (like an undeserved DSA or EEIS), my belief is that it will come back to us. So, I am careful with that, and don't want to have to pay the price.
There. Why it won't work for us, but that doesn't mean it won't work for others. Some will like the system, or psyched themselves to like the system because of the perks they can receive. To each his own, and there's no right or wrong. These are just different opinions. -
Chenonceau:
Of course yes! IMO, nobody wants to be extraordinary, simply because of the price we have to pay. That is why, I often tell my children that they are ordinary people doing extraordinary things. And I agree that all we want is for our kids to be normal and blend in.
Extraordinary people stand out, no? They don't blend in? If you draw extraordinarily well, people notice you. You will still be lonely in that only you can engage with your art at the level you do. Others cannot understand. When you can see things and do things others cannot, you are different. Not ordinary.Imami:
I see a difference between being able to blend in with the Majority and being ordinary. No, If i can have a say, i do not want my child to be ordinary. Being such a mediocre all my life, I do not wish that on my child if he is capable of more. One can be different/better yet being able to blend in.
When I started Potato Chinese(TM), I was flamed by those who did not understand the human psychology. I met resistance from my own family. It was lonely. Not until we obtained results were friends and family open to my psychological explanations of why and how it works. Potato Chinese(TM) isn't anything great but it does mean I am different... And it made Little Boy a little less ordinary. But it did mean social rejection for me, for a while. And really, that is peanuts compared to what truly extraordinary people have to bear.
Being extraordinary means you can't blend in. The 2 go together, no? What you want is high ability. Those can still blend in. Gee... Am I even making sense? Sorry... Sleepy... Not very coherent! Heh!
Having said that, you can now understand how difficult it is to be ordinary. It is a struggle for me on a daily basis. I send the kids to school, they won't blend in, I send them to universities, they thrive! So, we send them to universities at a young age.
It puzzles me why people want their kids to be known to be smart or gifted, because it is such a tall order. There are so many expectations, so many assumptions and so many misunderstandings. When you look at people who brought us innovations and pushed the boundaries, it is about them being just themselves and doing something way within their reach. An example is Terry Tao. His colleague told of how he solved a problem within a day or two that would have taken himself a few years. His invention is now used in our digital cameras. It required no effort to solve complex questions for him.
Sometimes, I wished my kids were simpler, I told my DS1 he thinks too much. I wished he would simplify things rather than thinking so much! I see how he deliberately dumb down so he could fit in, and avoid using his 'prowess' unless pushed to the corner. He does all these just to blend in and survive. My #4 had such a hard time fitting into schools - any school. But in the university, he thrived. He topped his Ivy League class last semester with a 96/100, though he is at least 8 years younger than the next youngest. That was not what we set out to do. We put him there because we do not know where else to put him, tried every kind of school we can think of. Funny enough, while he (still) struggles in primary school, he thrives in the university.
People who do extraordinary things might not necessarily thought they were going to. They were simply doing what they love and challenged themselves beyond what they are able, and no amount of branding or MOE telling us our kids are gifted can change that. Some of us are given more, and to those who are given more, more is expected. We cannot live well, until we are able to be who we are. I often pray that my kids will enjoy their gifts to the fullest, as much as I pray that they use whatever gifted them to bring mankind to the next level in their small ways. Big or small, it does not matter, all we want is for them is to be happy, ordinary and normal. Just like every parent.
This video shows us how these folks were misfits, and you can call them any names. None started out well and often misunderstood. But in the end, they chose to listen to themselves and be themselves, and then they achieved beyond what any human ever dreamed of. The price to pay for being different is high, and I pray that my kids will never have to pay that price: to have happiness and enjoy life ranks above all else.
[youtube=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jULUGHJCCj4][/youtube] -
Chenonceau:
I see you define this way - if you cannot blend in, you must be extraordinary. If you can blend in, you must be ordinary. But I view it this way - extraordinary people hardly blends in with the majority. Most people can blend in with the majority (note: nothing mention about. Their ability).
Extraordinary people stand out, no? They don't blend in? If you draw extraordinarily well, people notice you. You will still be lonely in that only you can engage with your art at the level you do. Others cannot understand. When you can see things and do things others cannot, you are different. Not ordinary.Imami:
I see a difference between being able to blend in with the Majority and being ordinary. No, If i can have a say, i do not want my child to be ordinary. Being such a mediocre all my life, I do not wish that on my child if he is capable of more. One can be different/better yet being able to blend in.
When I started Potato Chinese(TM), I was flamed by those who did not understand the human psychology. I met resistance from my own family. It was lonely. Not until we obtained results were friends and family open to my psychological explanations of why and how it works. Potato Chinese(TM) isn't anything great but it does mean I am different... And it made Little Boy a little less ordinary. But it did mean social rejection for me, for a while. And really, that is peanuts compared to what truly extraordinary people have to bear.
Being extraordinary means you can't blend in. The 2 go together, no? What you want is high ability. Those can still blend in. Gee... Am I even making sense? Sorry... Sleepy... Not very coherent! Heh!
I am not disputing your idea of and examples given for extraordinary people. I just thought the definition of blending in or not, can be broader. -
2ppaamm:
That is probably because their kids are not in the first place. What one doesn't have, is always the best. How many parents can be totally contented who their children are and leave things as it is?
Of course yes! IMO, nobody wants to be extraordinary, simply because of the price we have to pay. That is why, I often tell my children that they are ordinary people doing extraordinary things. And I agree that all we want is for our kids to be normal and blend in.
Having said that, you can now understand how difficult it is to be ordinary. It is a struggle for me on a daily basis. I send the kids to school, they won't blend in, I send them to universities, they thrive! So, we send them to universities at a young age.
It puzzles me why people want their kids to be known to be smart or gifted, because it is such a tall order. There are so many expectations, so many assumptions and so many misunderstandings. When you look at people who brought us innovations and pushed the boundaries, it is about them being just themselves and doing something way within their reach. An example is Terry Tao. His colleague told of how he solved a problem within a day or two that would have taken himself a few years. His invention is now used in our digital cameras. It required no effort to solve complex questions for him.
Sometimes, I wished my kids were simpler, I told my DS1 he thinks too much. I wished he would simplify things rather than thinking so much! I see how he deliberately dumb down so he could fit in, and avoid using his 'prowess' unless pushed to the corner. He does all these just to blend in and survive. My #4 had such a hard time fitting into schools - any school. But in the university, he thrived. He topped his Ivy League class last semester with a 96/100, though he is at least 8 years younger than the next youngest. That was not what we set out to do. We put him there because we do not know where else to put him, tried every kind of school we can think of. Funny enough, while he (still) struggles in primary school, he thrives in the university.
People who do extraordinary things might not necessarily thought they were going to. They were simply doing what they love and challenged themselves beyond what they are able, and no amount of branding or MOE telling us our kids are gifted can change that. Some of us are given more, and to those who are given more, more is expected. We cannot live well, until we are able to be who we are. I often pray that my kids will enjoy their gifts to the fullest, as much as I pray that they use whatever gifted them to bring mankind to the next level in their small ways. Big or small, it does not matter, all we want is for them is to be happy, ordinary and normal. Just like every parent.
This video shows us how these folks were misfits, and you can call them any names. None started out well and often misunderstood. But in the end, they chose to listen to themselves and be themselves, and then they achieved beyond what any human ever dreamed of. The price to pay for being different is high, and I pray that my kids will never have to pay that price: to have happiness and enjoy life ranks above all else.
[youtube=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jULUGHJCCj4][/youtube] -
ksi:
If her son were still there.... It would mean the program was suitable? In that case...Dear 2ppaamm,
Appreciate and like your sharing of your children's less travelled path for Singapore kids to be inspired....but...
If your GEP son is still in GEP today, will you campaign so hard against GEP? :? Just wondering.... -
Imami:
I see you define this way - if you cannot blend in, you must be extraordinary. If you can blend in, you must be ordinary. But I view it this way - extraordinary people hardly blends in with the majority. Most people can blend in with the majority (note: nothing mention about. Their ability).
Extraordinary people stand out, no? They don't blend in? If you draw extraordinarily well, people notice you. You will still be lonely in that only you can engage with your art at the level you do. Others cannot understand. When you can see things and do things others cannot, you are different. Not ordinary.Chenonceau:
[quote=\"Imami\"]
I see a difference between being able to blend in with the Majority and being ordinary. No, If i can have a say, i do not want my child to be ordinary. Being such a mediocre all my life, I do not wish that on my child if he is capable of more. One can be different/better yet being able to blend in.
When I started Potato Chinese(TM), I was flamed by those who did not understand the human psychology. I met resistance from my own family. It was lonely. Not until we obtained results were friends and family open to my psychological explanations of why and how it works. Potato Chinese(TM) isn't anything great but it does mean I am different... And it made Little Boy a little less ordinary. But it did mean social rejection for me, for a while. And really, that is peanuts compared to what truly extraordinary people have to bear.
Being extraordinary means you can't blend in. The 2 go together, no? What you want is high ability. Those can still blend in. Gee... Am I even making sense? Sorry... Sleepy... Not very coherent! Heh!
I am not disputing your idea of and examples given for extraordinary people. I just thought the definition of blending in or not, can be broader.[/quote]Nope. I meant.... If you are extraordinary, you can't blend in.
I did not mean that all those who CAN blend in are ordinary. There are many many high ability people who can blend in. My kids are of those. I made sure all their lives that they CAN blend in and I am happy DD went to NUS so that she can learn to get along with the majority of Singaporeans beyond her rarefied top school.
It is the truly gifted that suffer. Like Pam's kids. But then well.... I dun think God let Pam choose.
When God chooses a woman to bring up a genius, he anoints a saint. I dun wanna be a saint. Too painful.
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Chenonceau:
Well, does pam believe in God?
It is the truly gifted that suffer. Like Pam's kids. But then well.... I dun think God let Pam choose.
By the way, just wondering if you or Pam went thru our own pri school system yourselves coz some of your writings seem to give me the impression that u only 1st tasted our school system thru yr kids. -
verykiasu2010:
Thks for the correction huh ...
i think some of us really åæåęé¾ instead of ęåęé¾ :evil: :evil: :rotflmao:vlim:
Hi 2ppamm,
I think I get your pt ... But I think for parents who are not so resourceful and $$$$... They have no choice but to 'play' the game ... As we wouldn't want chances or money to drop from the shy ... Neither do I want to let my kid to go to a much lousier school if I think tt he deserve or good enough to be in a better one ....
Anyway tt is just my opinion, all of us hope to åæåęé¾...but we parents can only help Our kids within our own capability ... Sad huh ..unfair huh .. ..
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I think the school experience has changed over the last 20 years. And once you have tasted and seen a different system, you realise the drawbacks of our system. it is not without its strengths, and I think it did a good job providing high quality basic education to an entire population in a very short time. But it is not perfect. My main gripe is that kids will burn out too early and the entire mode of teaching at the lower levels do not support the higher thinking skills required at the tertiary levels.
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Edureach:
I understand your situation as outlined above and also delighed to hear your story.
Thank you for taking time to read my post.
On this occassion, i also want to comment on the issue of achieving T-score of above 262 not to debate but for the benefits of readers in general. In RI, the above 80 percentile are indeed very bright naturally and they discuss about the possibilities of studying in top ranked unis overseas with and without top scholarships. Those within the 50-80 percentile also hve their dreams and this grp continues to do well in their A-levels every yr. The problem is those at the bottom 20 percentile, about 250 students each yr struggling to perform decently.
I hope ds can stay within the 70 - 85 percentile. He is one that prefers to be a small fish in a big pond. So I guess RI pond fits him well. I think it is less stressful to be a small fish, as no one expects you to be the top anymore. You can take your time to learn and improve. My wish is he will enjoy his education in RI, make lifelong friends, be an independent and critical thinker and of good character.
Scholarship panels in general treat every applicant as equal irrespective of the jcs. Apart from RI and HCI, there are another 7 jcs even excluding NUSH and ACSI that are producing students capable of winning scholarships or securing the most competive courses in medicine, dentistry, law and accountancy etc. Many of these jcs' tutors were once students of leading schools. Do not also forget that good ccas and evedence of leadership are aslo required. The quality of the teaching faculty in at least the top 15 schools are equal, no such thing as RI is more superior in this area hence higher chance of securing better results. You could be suprised that many RI students attend external tuitions.
Yes, I am fully aware of this too. Like any other schools, RI has good and so-so teachers too. I would say ds has a very good form teacher this year. I am so glad that ds has her as a teacher.
We parents know our kids best as heighted in this forun by many parents. All in all, we need to pray for wisdom.
I fully agree with you on this. As parents we know our child the best and I really pray for wisdom to bring them up to be fine young man.
In this thread, there are invaluable articles contributed by 2ppaamm, chenonceau and many others. I hve learnt something and so do many others.
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