Is GEP really necessary?

[Imami]

2ppaamm:

Imami:

That is probably because their kids are not in the first place. What one doesn't have, is always the best. How many parents can be totally contented who their children are and leave things as it is?

Actually, I am contented with whatever what my children are gifted with or without. For those things they are gifted with, my job is to help them find a way to bring them to the fullest. For those they are without, I know there must be a reason I am not aware of NOW, and am contented to not even know why. No matter what the world views our children, there are good things in every child, and a reason behind each forte and a chance for us to help them shine. There are also weaknesses in each child, and our job is to help them realize them and help them to still achieve their hearts' desire and mitigate these weaknesses.

Yes, nicely put. :goodpost:

[Nebbermind]

Imami:

Nebbermind:

[quote=\"Chenonceau\"]
It is the truly gifted that suffer. Like Pam's kids. But then well.... I dun think God let Pam choose.

Well, does pam believe in God?

By the way, just wondering if you or Pam went thru our own pri school system yourselves coz some of your writings seem to give me the impression that u only 1st tasted our school system thru yr kids.

Do you think it will make a diff if Chen had gone thru our pri sch education system?[/quote]Well, knowing it will help me better understanding some of the things she's saying. Eg, in the case of forum writer, knowing his backgrd allow me to understanding why he's making certain remarks even if I donch quite agree.

[PiggyLalala]

Just my views.

There are pupils in the GE program that come from the humble family background. Maybe in certain GEP centres, there are more kids that are the middle upper class families. But in other centres,l ike Rosyth, Catholic and Nan Hua, I believed there are many pupils staying in humble HDB estates like Woodlands, Serangoon, Yishun and Chua Chu Kang. Families like ours, where the children’s IQ may be higher than the parents, we are grateful to have the GE program to enrich our children’s education.

If for example, in every year, there are ard 60 GEPpers who got into the top schools, so called through the ‘unfair DSA’, (which i do not think so, because I believed that if these pupils are not in the GE program, they being high ability, with enough drilling for all subjects from P5 to P6, they could also get into the TOP schools through S1 posting. ) there are also 60 grateful students from the humble background that have benefitted from the program.

[PiggyLalala]

2ppaamm:

Secondly, GEP robs me of time. Though none has ever gone to tuition, there is a ton of homework to do, a lot of projects I found meaningless, not because of the content, but the expectation of the teachers. They expect kids to put up professional work which then require adult supervision. I believe they should just submit their own work for marking, instead of having the teacher mark and re-mark and then submit to MOE and the 9 schools compare. Whose work is being marked? Teachers', parents' or kids'? Also, my kid won't do the homework, because it is repetitive. My kids have 'character' :frustrated: or whatever you call that. Once they have learned something, they expect to be fed new information or moved to the next level. There is no way they will do that thing again another 20 times. While I understand high ability kids will, my kids won't and most of my time was spent asking them to comply and do those, knowing they have already mastered the topics.

I think you are refering to the drafts 1, 2 and maybe 3 for the SS projects and the English Compositions. You seemed like against the idea of the pupils doing a few drafts and you think that the reason why the teachers did that is because they need to submit a list of good grades for MOE to review. ( I hope I did not misunderstood what you have written above.)
However, for me, I am very appreciative because with the teachers' feedback and comments, my boys can improve his work after each draft. I thought that was something positive in the GE program. However, on the other hand, because of the higher standard and the time spent in improving each piece of work, the pupils have lesser drilling time for PSLE.

[naggo-nitemare]

PiggyLalala:

Just my views.

There are pupils in the GE program that come from the humble family background. Maybe in certain GEP centres, there are more kids that are the middle upper class families. But in other centres,l ike Rosyth, Catholic and Nan Hua, I believed there are many pupils staying in humble HDB estates like Woodlands, Serangoon, Yishun and Chua Chu Kang. Families like ours, where the children's IQ may be higher than the parents, we are grateful to have the GE program to enrich our children's education.

Me too. I'm v grateful.

[Melodies]

No doubt about it, the education system has evolved and changed a lot since my time. I started to write composition when I was P3/4 for Chinese and English. Now, the pupil has started in P1/P2 and the requirements and expectation are higher than when I started to write composition in P3/4.


I remembered I got all correct working in Maths' fraction during my time but I forgot to simplified it to the simplest form, I still got some marks (though not full mark) for the correct working. Now, the pupil will get zero mark. If it is a section B question, the consequence is huge because you lose 4 marks. Why are we so hard with our self nowadays?

For science, you have to put in the answer exactly on what you can see from the picture, If they gave 1 aeroplane and 1 bird and asking the pupil to state 1 similarity, you will be wrong if your answer is both can fly. you have to give the answer of what you can see from the picture like both have wings then can answer it correctly. Why are we so NOT 'think out of box'. :siao:

[Chenonceau]

Nebbermind:

Well, knowing it will help me better understanding some of the things she's saying. Eg, in the case of forum writer, knowing his backgrd allow me to understanding why he's making certain remarks even if I donch quite agree.

Pam is a Christian. Else, I would not have mentioned God.

I had a very privileged childhood... attended primary school with kids of foreign diplomats, tycoons and royalty. I only integrated Singapore schools in secondary when the family business went through tough times. Like Pam, I didn't fit... not really. I didn't have the kind of family support Pam and I give our kids. In those days, if you had money, you throw it at the problem. If you had no money, you ignored it.

This defined the way I brought up MY kids.

(1) I don't throw money at any problem that concerns my kids. I solve it myself. And I teach others to solve their problems now instead of taking others' money to solve it for them. I could make more money doing the second BUT it really doesn't change things for others in any deep way.

(2) I made sure I did everything I could to MAKE my kids fit, including befriending, charming Teachers... in addition to some measure of groveling and flattery. I baked cakes for kids, bought gifts, thought up other erstwhile stuff that would make my kids look like people that other kids wanna know... blah blah blah...

I dunno how far this goes in helping you understand but I am impressed you asked because unlike many who REACT, you sought first to understand a stranger's past. You are an interesting man Nebbermind, not least because you enjoy The Whip.


Ngiahahahahahaha!

[Imami]

Nebbermind:

Imami:

Well, does pam believe in God?

By the way, just wondering if you or Pam went thru our own pri school system yourselves coz some of your writings seem to give me the impression that u only 1st tasted our school system thru yr kids.

Do you think it will make a diff if Chen had gone thru our pri sch education system?

Well, knowing it will help me better understanding some of the things she's saying. Eg, in the case of forum writer, knowing his backgrd allow me to understanding why he's making certain remarks even if I donch quite agree.[/quote]

Ah, understand. It is more for the readers to understand the point of view of the writers. :idea:

[Chenonceau]

jtoh:

Hi Chen,

Thanks for sharing. Can you help me with the following scenario.

Student A & Student B both have equally excellent A level results, sporting and leadership achievements etc. Student A is from RI/HCI. Student B from a less academically competitive school. Student A is an above average student in RI/HCI, but not the top student. Student B is a top student in this average school.

Does that mean that Student B will be offered a place in Cambridge, Oxford, Princeton, Harvard and the like over Student A? Has this actually happened, ie a student like Student B was offered a place in Oxbridge and the Ivy Leagues this year?

What if Student B has less outstanding A level results, sporting achievement etc compared to Student A but is still the top student in his less competitive school. Will he still be viewed more favorably than Student A by these top universities?

Thanks.

I need to be careful here in order not to mislead. I am no expert. I can only share my own experience. Pam is a better person to answer your question. The following is a very very tentative answer.

Question A
Student A & Student B both have equally excellent A level results, sporting and leadership achievements etc. Student A is from RI/HCI. Student B from a less academically competitive school. Student A is an above average student in RI/HCI, but not the top student. Student B is a top student in this average school.

If the 2 students are EQUAL in every respect, then yes... I think the one from the less academically inclined school will pip the other. Why? The one from RI had differential input (from the school) than the one from the less academically inclined school. The one from RI (Student A) had access to better quality, and more of it. Therefore, Student A should have achieved more than parity with Student B. This system is more fair than our PSLE where we only look at t-score even whilst we KNOW that different schools have differential input.

The only way the Ivy Leagues can assess with a view to differential INPUT is to take the pinnacle from every school. I do know a girl from NJC that got to Stanford. Pinnacle in NJC. Now... there are some who will say that Stanford isn't really the top, but that is the only example I have for this. Oh yes... I also know a young man in Harvard now from St Andrew's Junior College. He could have made RI/RJC but his mother (a school principal) chose to put him in St Andrew's instead. He too was pinnacle in SAJC. BUT this boy missed out on every PSC scholarship because PSC looks at RAW BEST and disregards differential input.

If you read this article (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2154243/Teen-goes-sleeping-park-benches-Harvard-dorm-room-years-homeless.html) it may become clear that Harvard does not take in the absolute RAW BEST. They take in the BEST of whatever social/educational circumstances the student came from. Do you think that a girl who slept on park benches can have won all the prized at sport my girl won... or the research awards... or published a book? I doubt. However, the girl reached somewhere WAY beyond what one would normally expect from a HOMELESS person.

I have also heard that Harvard takes in people with somewhat poorer results too. Squash players, gymnasts etc... because Harvard wants exceptional talent in diverse areas. If you are world seeded or have a mother like Amy Chua (AND good results because Tiger Sophia was also valedictorian)... are a famous actress (with good results)... that counts too. Ivy Leagues don't want cookies. They want unique individuals. Our formula where we give opportunities to everyone in the same JC doesn't quite work because all the CVs look the same when they get there... CIP, VP, Silver, Gold.... blah blah blah... Watch the movie \"21\" (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0478087/) and pay special attention to the main character's scholarship interview. It gives you a small small taste of what Harvard looks for EVEN IF you're just looking at Harvard admission not scholarship.

For us, I KNEW... many years ago... and I did tell DD that she should eschew the opportunities provided by the school and create her own niche outside. Some students do that. One had such a vibrant life OUTSIDE the JCs choreographing dance. He made quite a name for himself... was LAST in GEP all his life (according to him) but Harvard took him. He was THAT good in the dance scene and of course, turned in his distinctions (or pretty much).

I have known this for many years. I tried to guide my DD towards a more distinctive portfolio BUT she had other ideas. I backed off. I don't really mind non Ivy League you see so I didn't put in much effort to motivate and convince. At some point, a Mom has to respect the child's autonomy and since I didn't think she would damage her future in any way, I did not insist. Added to that, I consoled myself that learning to blend in was far more important in the long run.

I let it go.



Question B
What if Student B has less outstanding A level results, sporting achievement etc compared to Student A but is still the top student in his less competitive school. Will he still be viewed more favorably than Student A by these top universities?

I don't know the answer to this question but perhaps, you can project the answer from what I wrote above?

Hope this helps

[PiggyLalala]

Chenonceau:

jtoh:

Hi Chen,

Thanks for sharing. Can you help me with the following scenario.

Student A & Student B both have equally excellent A level results, sporting and leadership achievements etc. Student A is from RI/HCI. Student B from a less academically competitive school. Student A is an above average student in RI/HCI, but not the top student. Student B is a top student in this average school.

Does that mean that Student B will be offered a place in Cambridge, Oxford, Princeton, Harvard and the like over Student A? Has this actually happened, ie a student like Student B was offered a place in Oxbridge and the Ivy Leagues this year?

What if Student B has less outstanding A level results, sporting achievement etc compared to Student A but is still the top student in his less competitive school. Will he still be viewed more favorably than Student A by these top universities?

Thanks.

I need to be careful here in order not to mislead. I am no expert. I can only share my own experience. Pam is a better person to answer your question. The following is a very very tentative answer.

Question A
Student A & Student B both have equally excellent A level results, sporting and leadership achievements etc. Student A is from RI/HCI. Student B from a less academically competitive school. Student A is an above average student in RI/HCI, but not the top student. Student B is a top student in this average school.

If the 2 students are EQUAL in every respect, then yes... I think the one from the less academically inclined school will pip the other. Why? The one from RI had differential input (from the school) than the one from the less academically inclined school. The one from RI (Student A) had access to better quality, and more of it. Therefore, Student A should have achieved more than parity with Student B. This system is more fair than our PSLE where we only look at t-score even whilst we KNOW that different schools have differential input.

The only way the Ivy Leagues can assess with a view to differential INPUT is to take the pinnacle from every school. I do know a girl from NJC that got to Stanford. Pinnacle in NJC. Now... there are some who will say that Stanford isn't really the top, but that is the only example I have for this. Oh yes... I also know a young man in Harvard now from St Andrew's Junior College. He could have made RI/RJC but his mother (a school principal) chose to put him in St Andrew's instead. He too was pinnacle in SAJC.

If you read this article (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2154243/Teen-goes-sleeping-park-benches-Harvard-dorm-room-years-homeless.html) it may become clear that Harvard does not take in the absolute RAW BEST. They take in the BEST of whatever social/educational circumstances the student came from. Do you think that a girl who slept on park benches can have won all the prized at sport my girl won... or the research awards... or published a book? I doubt. However, the girl reached somewhere WAY beyond what one would normally expect from a HOMELESS person.

I have also heard that Harvard takes in people with somewhat poorer results too. Squash players, gymnasts etc... because Harvard wants exceptional talent in diverse areas. If you are world seeded or have a mother like Amy Chua (AND good results)... are a famous actress (with good results)... that counts too. Ivy Leagues don't want cookies. They want unique individuals. Our formula where we give opportunities to everyone in the same JC doesn't quite work because all the CVs look the same when they get there... CIP, VP, Silver, Gold.... blah blah blah... Watch the movie \"21\" (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0478087/) and pay special attention to the main character's scholarship interview. It gives you a small small taste of what Harvard looks for EVEN IF you're just looking at Harvard admission not scholarship.

For us, I KNEW... many years ago... and I did tell DD that she should eschew the opportunities provided by the school and create her own niche outside. Some students do that. One had such a vibrant life OUTSIDE the JCs choreographing dance. He made quite a name for himself... was LAST in GEP all his life (according to him) but Harvard took him. He was THAT good in the dance scene and of course, turned in his distinctions (or pretty much).

I have known this for many years. I tried to guide my DD towards a more distinctive portfolio BUT she had other ideas. I backed off. I don't really mind non Ivy League you see so I didn't put in much effort to motivate and convince. At some point, a Mom has to respect the child's autonomy and since I didn't think she would damage her future in any way, I did not insist. Added to that, I consoled myself that learning to blend in was far more important in the long run.

I let it go.

Thanks for yr sharing on the ivy league and parenting. U are a very wise mommy.