Is GEP really necessary?
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Yesterday, while driving the DS2 and DS3 home, DH asked me why I was typing so much these few days… so I told him what’s happening in KSP and this thread. And DS2 overheard everything, and this is his take:
1. GEPpers are not the smartest, they are the most hardworking ones with tuition. In my P3 class, XXX, YYY and ZZZ are the smartest but they did not get into GEP. I thought they would, they were fast and learned the fastest in class. AAA, BBB, CCC and DDD got into GEP. They attended many classes after school and are so hardworking. So I don’t think they are the smartest but the most hardworking.
2. Strange that in the US, people will stand up when there is unequal rights, but not in Singapore. There are so many inequalities in the country but people don’t speak up, unless it hits them. People should speak up more, and inequality is always wrong.
I asked him if GEPpers should get those privileges they are getting. He said no. We should all fight the same things, and if we are good, no matter what curriculum we are given, we will excel.
He is 12, ex-GEPper, never did a single piece of homework in P3 (and I could not make him), went to the GEP test last minute when he found out his best friend (who also got into GEP) was sitting as well, and now in the university while dual enrolled in a primary school. Interesting views.
As you can see, DH is questioning, and those who are familiar will know what happens next. -
ruohoo97:
My mum was a businesswoman - very fierce one. She did not mother so much, leaving me to fend for myself. My mother-in-law is a SAHM, and I see a great contrast in them. My siblings and I became very independent, strong and tough. DH and siblings are loving, close and love their mom very much.ksi:
Personally, I feel that my mother was my best school for motherhood. This informal school is the best, consultation is free too...
Now maybe ksp.com is an alternative...kekeke
You are right! That is why I come here so often....that my kids peeping and saying \"you? kiasuing again? But I have really learnt a lOT! Thanks!
I want to have the best of both worlds. I agree mothers make the best role models for our daughters, and besides helping them realize their academic and career dreams, I want to help them become great wives and mothers one day. So yes, our mothers are our best schools, and we are our daughters' best schools! Let's remember that above all else. :celebrate: -
2ppaamm:
My mum was a businesswoman - very fierce one. She did not mother so much, leaving me to fend for myself. My mother-in-law is a SAHM, and I see a great contrast in them. My siblings and I became very independent, strong and tough. DH and siblings are loving, close and love their mom very much.ruohoo97:
[quote=\"ksi\"] Personally, I feel that my mother was my best school for motherhood. This informal school is the best, consultation is free too...
Now maybe ksp.com is an alternative...kekeke
You are right! That is why I come here so often....that my kids peeping and saying \"you? kiasuing again? But I have really learnt a lOT! Thanks!
I want to have the best of both worlds. I agree mothers make the best role models for our daughters, and besides helping them realize their academic and career dreams, I want to help them become great wives and mothers one day. So yes, our mothers are our best schools, and we are our daughters' best schools! Let's remember that above all else. :celebrate:[/quote]Cheers to motherhood! :celebrate: Behind every \"successful\"(our own contented version of success la) woman, there is also a woman called mother!!
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ForumWriter:
Melodies:
Anyone can throw more lights on this? My question is why deprive those pupils from getting EESIS who have t-score in the range of better than 255 (someone told it it abt 255) for average GEPpers to 26O? Also, why there are more priority given to GEPper than mainstream in IP schools (NOT IS). If score 260 (albeit top 3% scorer), you may not be able to get into some of the good schools like RGS, NYG and RI and HCI.
The below is pure speculation.
I think that some GEP students don't score as well as they are expected to in exams. Students in the GEP are usually more intelligent and may be more hardworking than average, but the only real inference is that they are the top 1% who passed the GEP test - not the top 1% in intelligence or academics.
Wonder why the system failed to select top 1% in intelligence or academics since their goals are to nurture to develop intellectual; depth and higher-level thinking? Isn't it easier to nurture this group of pupils. Select a mere hardworking and intelligent than average for what? Study showed that you spent enough time than average, any Tom, Dick and Harry can also do well. no? :scratchhead: Why don't nurture the top 1% in intelligence or academics? :?
Besides, GEP students also do not study the normal curriculum which is tested in the PSLE. The GEP is designed to encourage self-learning/self-discovery and covers wide areas outside the curriculum. In my time, it was only in primary 6 when we started to do the same revision as other students, and not everyone could cope. It is highly possible that if these students studied the same syllabus in the previous years, they could have fared better. The EESIS system for GEP could be a means to mitigate this discrepancy.
I thought everyone in GEP has claimed that their English is pitched at higher level than PSLE as high as Sec 2-3, why can't score better than mainstream when mainstream are at lower English level. For Maths/Sciences, you also pitched at higher level through self-learning/self-discovery and you studied more than mainstreams by covering wide areas outside the curriculum. You already have a lot of advantages than mainstreams because you have extensive materials as compared to a normal mainstream pupils who have no materials but just a texbook which are useless. Again, you have upper hand on the Maths subject, why can't score better in PSLE? :? For Chinese and HC, you have the same syllabus as Mainstreams, you should fared a good as mainstreams. I'm totally not convinced that you studied more higher ability material and pitched at higher level in GEP programs but you can't deliver your results for PSLE. All the more you should deliver result in PSLE. Also, how did you explain some GEPpers (10-20%) can score > 265? Honestly, I think if you are good, no matter what program you are in, you will continue to do well, otherwise, how to explain GEPpers can also score >265! This group of pupils can also get EESIS through their PSLE score, why need to mitigate this discrepancy (for studied more in GEP than mainstream) by giving EESIS out to GEPpers since you already enjoyed a system which allow you to study at a higher and wider levels. All the more mainstream should entitle this EESIS than GEPpers? no?
PSLE also tests more hard work than intelligence. GEP students need not necessarily be more hardworking and therefore some may score lower.
I'm confused again, I thought they selected more hard work than average mainstream for GEP program. Shouldn't GEPpers have more advantage than mainstream since PSLE also tests more hard work than intelligence? I knew that some schools stretched the GEP resources and spilled the GEP resources/materials to top 2 classes in mainstream and this group of high ability pupils got to enjoy the GEP materials/resoruces and they got to excel and deliver PSLE results too. Why they can deliver results but average GEPpers failed to? After 3 years in GEP program, if your potential is still not reached, I don't know if it is you don't have the potential or the system failed to optimize your potential?
However, I think that GE branch thinks that these GEP students are still able to cope with higher ability material. Therefore, the EESIS could be a means of encouragement to continue in the GEP.
already mentioned in above . -
After reading the posts, I just realised the true GE kids are so sadly mistaken by people. GE kids are not typically known to be strong academic performers nor exam-smart but they have a good brain nevertheless. Their potential is not reached. In a school I know, the cohort’s top few students in P3 were not selected for GE (but continue to top in P4,P5) and when they go for inter school competition for Math or Science they would not win, some cannot even pass the selection test. However, the GE children would stand out in the competition but they may not emerge the top students in the cohort when they join the PSLE. This is not strange if one understands how GE kids work.
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ksi:
After reading the posts, I just realised the true GE kids are so sadly mistaken by people. GE kids are not typically known to be strong academic performers nor exam-smart but they have a good brain nevertheless. Their potential is not reached. In a school I know, the cohort's top few students in P3 were not selected for GE (but continue to top in P4,P5) and when they go for inter school competition for Math or Science they would not win, some cannot even pass the selection test. However, the GE children would stand out in the competition but they may not emerge the top students in the cohort when they join the PSLE. This is not strange if one understands how GE kids work.
:goodpost: Thanks ksi, I feel sad when I read all this negative things about kids in GE prog. Most of these negative things I do not see them in DS nor his friends from the same prog. :roll: -
Hi KSI & pinball, I'm sorry if I have upset you two. However, plse tell us more about what you don't see them (what are the negative things - poor PSLE score? what r the good things ) in ur dc GEP program so that GEP will not be misunderstood. I'm not convinced that you can win the maths and science competition but you can't score well in maths and science subjects in PSLE. These two just can't correlate well....
pinball:
ksi:
After reading the posts, I just realised the true GE kids are so sadly mistaken by people. GE kids are not typically known to be strong academic performers nor exam-smart but they have a good brain nevertheless. Their potential is not reached. In a school I know, the cohort's top few students in P3 were not selected for GE (but continue to top in P4,P5) and when they go for inter school competition for Math or Science they would not win, some cannot even pass the selection test. However, the GE children would stand out in the competition but they may not emerge the top students in the cohort when they join the PSLE. This is not strange if one understands how GE kids work.
:goodpost: Thanks ksi, I feel sad when I read all this negative things about kids in GE prog. Most of these negative things I do not see them in DS nor his friends from the same prog. :roll: -
Generally most geppers can stil score well in PSLE. In ds p6 class, I think quite many get 260 and above … Of course there are a few that under perform. For mainstream students, I believe they already start preparing and drilling for psle since p5. But for geppers, p5 is their most ‘busy’ yr having to do different gep projects, assignments and/or take part in various Maths / Sci competitions. Their Ge prog though ended in mid p6 after their mid yr sa1, but in July /aug, they still have to submit one or two social studies proj/assignment … Plus they have to take a social studies prelim exam somewhere in aug which mainstreamers don’t have to… And they have to pass it inorder to promote to the next level of gep… So I would say, generally most of the geppers can only start revising for psle in june/July of their psle yr… In view of tt, if most of them still can achieve 250 and above… Don’t they show their ability?.., I would say taking this gep is not only about nurturing and stretching our higher ability kids, in the mean while also need them to cultivate good working/study attitude and responsibility …
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Melodies:
Why not? Most of us here have at least a pass our O level maths, yet we still struggle to cope with pri school maths questions.I'm not convinced that you can win the maths and science competition but you can't score well in maths and science subjects in PSLE. These two just can't correlate well....
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Melodies, no amount of talking here will convince you unless you have interaction with true GE kids. They are different even from baby stages and can be picked out.
Suffice to say, in a competition, some of the topics may be above level, GE kids are good at above level stuff compared to mainstream kids even if they have not been exposed. However, when it comes to simpler(to them) things like a formatted exam, GE kids may trip over and fail miserably(compared to their non-structured work). Their ability to learn new and complex things are much stronger but they may not have practised enough on simpler repetitive work to produce zero-error work. Given time, they can bridge the repetitive part eventually(some maybe never) but their innate ability to learn new and complex things fast cannot be replicated in a child without the innate ability. So please be kind to true GE kids, they have their own struggles as well and they did not ask to be born this way.
My take is, they only make up 1% of each cohort, leave them alone as they don't take up that much budget as well, considering they are integrated into local schools with limited facilities and not having a standalone academy with the state-of-the-art facilities to warrant any kind of envy. This is probably the kind of low-cost operations that 2ppaamm is canvassing against. Currently the nurturing efforts look half-hearted to her but already many are unhappy with the so-called privileges. 2ppaamm, can you imagine if it goes into a large scale academy approach? You will have more to write here.....tell your DH..
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