Is GEP really necessary?

[jtoh]

ksi, I like your posts.

[corneyAmber]

jtoh:

ksi, I like your posts.

:hi5:

[vlim]

Jtoh, time to get an avatar for yourself.. Dr Ksi can help ..

[Pen88n]

vlim:

Jtoh, time to get an avatar for yourself.. Dr Ksi can help ..

Vlim advertising for Dr Ksi in other threads

[Melodies]

vlim:

Generally most geppers can stil score well in PSLE. In ds p6 class, I think quite many get 260 and above ... Of course there are a few that under perform. For mainstream students, I believe they already start preparing and drilling for psle since p5.


I don't believe that drilling can help you to perform and score well in PSLE. No way! Nowadays, all the pri levels have high-thinking questions. They are much tougher than our times previously and all required you to think and solve. Take a look at the current Pri level Science, Maths and English papers. The English MCQ/OE comprehension are challenging and high thinking questions. You need to have good problem solving skills to be able to answer and score Maths. Drilling can only help you to build your foundation (you may reach 75-80% by just drilling which can be translated to be 220-235) Now, we are talking about scoring for A* for 91% no amount of drilling can help you reach there!

But for geppers, p5 is their most 'busy' yr having to do different gep projects, assignments and/or take part in various Maths / Sci competitions. Their Ge prog though ended in mid p6 after their mid yr sa1, but in July /aug, they still have to submit one or two social studies proj/assignment .. Plus they have to take a social studies prelim exam somewhere in aug which mainstreamers don't have to... And they have to pass it inorder to promote to the next level of gep... So I would say, generally most of the geppers can only start revising for psle in june/July of their psle yr... In view of tt, if most of them still can achieve 250 and above.... Don't they show their ability?.., I would say taking this gep is not only about nurturing and stretching our higher ability kids, in the mean while also need them to cultivate good working/study attitude and responsibility ...

Aren't these projects/assessments providing you a lot of training for nurturing the GEP pupils to develop intellectual; depth and higher-level thinking? I'm speechless here. Do you know that I have to send my dd to TLL to get this type of training? I have to sources all types of materials for dd in the hope of developing her intellectual; depth and higher-level thinking so that she is well equipped to be able to answer those high-thinking questions! I know that there are many GEPpers attending TLL as well. There is one mum said that she is grateful that there is guided in GEP classess and the GEPeprs teachers also marked and feedback for a few rounds after the GEPpers have done a few drafts for their English composition. I'm so envied with this as you can only dreamed on in the mainstreams! Think about that, mainstreams have to take a few miles than GEPpers (attending tuition and also researching themself) in order to score well in PSLE. After all these aids, advantages and training, why you still think that they are not trained to do well in PLSE for GEPper?

[jtoh]

vlim:

Jtoh, time to get an avatar for yourself.. Dr Ksi can help ..

[vlim]

jtoh:

vlim:

Jtoh, time to get an avatar for yourself.. Dr Ksi can help ..

Go 'KSP forum avatar'.. And get a nice nice one before vk2010 does ..

[Melodies]

I think the PSLE level has raised to a much higher level... Didn't Pam said our PSLE Maths is good enough for American high school Maths?


You find yourself struggle with Pri level because they are using different methods (model..heuristics and some more you have left schools for long time). I don't find it difficult with this type of problem solving skills at all. Pupil are now in the same era and if they are thought with higher level maths and sciences, they should be able to score well in PSLE. If they are not, something has gone wrong, either they are lacking in their foundation or they have not master the problem solving skills.

Nebbermind:

Melodies:

I'm not convinced that you can win the maths and science competition but you can't score well in maths and science subjects in PSLE. These two just can't correlate well....

Why not? Most of us here have at least a pass our O level maths, yet we still struggle to cope with pri school maths questions.

[2ppaamm]

Wow... so many things transpired. My thoughts in summary:


1. I don't really agree that GEP kids can be spotted from very young. In fact, it is very difficult to spot gifted children. I have never thought my kids are gifted, and continue to doubt that every day, and honestly, MOST children I know who got into GEP were a big surprise to me. So, no, I don't think I can spot a GEP from young. BUT, I can spot a High Ability child very quickly. Normally very enthusiastic, very alert, very capable and very articulate. I cannot spot a gifted (notice I separate gifted child and GEP) child as well, unless he is very, very exceptional, but I have yet met such a kid, my own included.

2. I agree there should be a gifted program, but not in the shape of the current GEP. This current GEP does not make sense to me, from the selection all the way to the execution of the classes. I've always believed in blending in, and GEP, to me, is to put a group of very similar children together and that is not blending in. What I have observed is that by mixing the children in ALL subjects, and then pulling certain kids out for their pet subjects work really well. That is a much more cost effective way of doing things to great results. I did mention that my 12 year old class is doing advanced trigonometry and my 9 year old boy is doing prime factors, composite and Fibonacci sequence, something covered by our P4 GEP. None of my kids' classmates are labeled GEP or gifted. They are all pulled out for their Math. Both my kids are also pulled out for English. So, I don't agree to select students, label them and then give them special privileges because there is always a chance of mis-selection, there is always a chance they cannot cope.

3. I don't believe a child who is enriched cannot perform at a lower level or score high for a lower level exam. I have a big problem with that. PSLE is a primary school exam, and elementary. No matter how difficult they make it, the concepts are elementary. Take a PSLE exam and give it to strong student at Sec 2, he should be able to score. Therefore, I cannot subscribe to this view. A child who is taught higher level order thinking might not use the same methodologies to solve the problems, but they will be equipped with more tools to handle any kind of question. If a child who has gone through GEP cannot score for PSLE, then there's something wrong with what they teach in GEP, making the skills only SELECTIVELY relevant, making all effort to enrich the children futile. At the end of the day, Algebra is algebra, science concept is science concept, they are all the same.

4. I cannot accept that all children forget what they were taught. Recently, my son had to prepare for a postgrad exam which required secondary Math. He hadn't done Math for 5 years since his undergrad degree had little Math. I gave him the materials, thinking he would have forgotten and offered him help, since he is not a Math major. To my surprise, he remembered everything, and could solve all of the problems on the exam. It was a slow start and he needed to recall some theorem, but once he was on it, he covered all the topics, he finished all the algebra in an hour, for an example. So, no. I cannot accept this thinking as well. Don't know whether my son is gifted or not, but I certainly know it is not true you learn something and don't retain that, especially if we are talking about gifted kids. Recently, since my younger son decided to choose some Math courses for his degree, I decided to pick up those concepts I have not touched since my undergrad days as well. I thought I was going to take weeks since I should have forgotten, but I spent only 2 days and got myself in shape and passed an exam. So, even if we get rusty, I am of the opinion that you don't need a lot of time to brush up and get them back again. The GEPpers have a whole year to learn and revise PSLE topics, which are supposed to be easier than their own curriculum, so I find it hard to accept this claim that they cannot do lower level work better.

5. I also don't agree that you need to prepare for PSLE from P5, and it is not true that mainstreamers all start preparation from P5. My older boy who did not go to GEP was overseas with the school team for most part of P5, so did my youngest daughter, up to their prelim exams. P5 to many is a honey moon year. Many schools do not pump the kids at P5. So that notion that they start preparing at P5 is again misplaced. My son and his class started preparing for PSLE about April or May in P6. No different from a GEP class.

Bottomline is, if GEPpers want to keep their stature and reputation, they had better perform. The rest will be just excuses. Unfortunately, the more excuses are made, the more it makes the GEPpers look bad. My advice is to accept that, and then perform - same thing I tell my son. He is in the uni, but that does not mean his primary school results should be less sterling than his classmates'. My other better suggestion is, just get rid of that PSLE! Saves all these trouble.

[atutor2001]

jtoh:

....... There are many GEPpers who are weak in MT which invariably pulls down their T-score. Or there are those who are weak in Math. If they had stayed in mainstream and had all of P4/5/6 to prepare for PSLE I dare say they would have better PSLE scores.

This is where I find puzzling. Being gifted, they tend to have special ability, even for tackling subjects that they are weak in. An old friend who is a baba migrated to UK because her daughters were struggling with Chinese in primary school. Years later, she returned together with her kids because of her job . By then her children are in secondary level and she managed to get them into RGS. I taught they would suffer as there is Chinese. Surprisingly, they aced everything. This friend was much older then me and I regretted not seeking her advice on how she managed to make her kids pick up Chinese again, which was the cause of their migration. Is it because of a change in attitude as they had been exposed to a different learning environment in UK?

I also know many students who were good in mainly math and science. Miraculously, they were able to score A for Chinese. However, after a few years, they practically forgot everything. Such cases only make me feel that a gifted person has no problem with exams, no matter what the subject is. Perhaps those that can't is more of \"attitude problem.\"