Is GEP really necessary?
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Melodies:
Hi Melodies,I thought we already complaint that we have too many exams here in Singapore. Why create one more? Do you think it is a level playing field assessment? Isn't GEP program similar to IP program. GEPpers would have upper hand advantages because you have 3 yrs run up program before the test.
Why don't stick to PSLE exams then? Why created another one? There are many GEPpers did well in PSLE too and scrap all those DSA then? You will never get any agreement on this? Seriously, we don't have all this unfair treatment before the implementation of DSA. All based on PSLE!~
From reading your previous posts, you keeps on harping that it is not fair that Gep kids get into top IP school with lower PSLE score through DSA. But have you ever think that it is precisely that they have been through the 3 yrs GEP programme that they are selected + respectable academic results. You have even acknowledge that (see highlighted) and they are more or less suitable/prepare for IP programme.
So that why, I give my alternative suggestion to have fairer way of getting students into the IP school. Since there are already two groups of students (GEP, mainstream) exist in our system and educated differently, then perhaps a new assessment system might be needed including PSLE exam (since I don't need MOE will abolish it). And of course for this group, no need for DSA.
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:hugs: no issue at all. My dd is still not there yet...
Always looking forward to 2ppaamm's sharing on the paths of alternatives. :rahrah: :rahrah: :rahrah: .....ksi:
Sorry Melody, as far as I know what I have written, it was purely to dispel the misnomer of what a GEP child is and is not. I am not sure where the ideas came from all those discussions so far but I finally feel compelled to speak on behalf of these children who indeed deserve some different attention. There is nothing emotional about it.Melodies:
Ksi and dear other GEPpers' moms, sigh..I'm not here to bash up 1% of the children, I'm here to have a constructive discussion on GEP program/system/process and compare GEP program and treatment with mainstreams. Please try to see this point and please don't be so emotional about it so that you will have a clear mind to discuss. While you think that GEP program is benefited to your ds/dd and your ds/dd deserved to have this, there are thousand others shared the same view for their ds/dd. What make you think that your ds/dd are more equal than others? Like Pam, I have seen many others I think they should be selected but they are not but I was surprised with many admitted one. Because of one selection, their fate is set. Do you dare to say it is a fair selection? For those selected pupils, they may be think that it is very fair systemใ But, what make them think so? ๆๆฏไปฅไบ่ฎบ ไบ๏ผ ไธๆฏ้ๅฏนไบบใ
Also, if we cannot trust parents who know their children have gifts, what more about using eyes to see as 3rd party. 
I do not rule out the trained GEP students without the calibre or the group that are borderline with the HA kids but those cannot be the majority.
As for the fate is set, that is far from true. GEP is only a 3 year programme and only affects 1%, the entire education journey is about 15 years long assuming a 3-yr uni programme, up to P6 only 6 years are covered, 9 more years..... If we feel life is so bleak, we will make it bleak for our children....come on brighten up Melodies! We have 2ppaamm to share the paths of alternatives so all is not lost. -
friendship:
Can anyone download youtube on 'ENDLESS LOVE' song for this topic
Like this version.
[youtube=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ewf0TnM4eKo][/youtube] -
comfy:
Hi Melodies,Melodies:
I thought we already complaint that we have too many exams here in Singapore. Why create one more? Do you think it is a level playing field assessment? Isn't GEP program similar to IP program. GEPpers would have upper hand advantages because you have 3 yrs run up program before the test.
Why don't stick to PSLE exams then? Why created another one? There are many GEPpers did well in PSLE too and scrap all those DSA then? You will never get any agreement on this? Seriously, we don't have all this unfair treatment before the implementation of DSA. All based on PSLE!~
From reading your previous posts, you keeps on harping that it is not fair that Gep kids get into top IP school with lower PSLE score through DSA. But have you ever think that it is precisely that they have been through the 3 yrs GEP programme that they are selected + respectable academic results. You have even acknowledge that (see highlighted) and they are more or less suitable/prepare for IP programme.
So that why, I give my alternative suggestion to have more fairer way of getting students into the IP school. Since there are already two groups of students (GEP, mainstream) exit in our system and educated differently, then perhaps a new assessment system might be needed including PSLE exam (since I don't need MOE will abolish it). And of course for this group, no need for DSA. :? Why are GEPpers more suitable for IP program? What's the difference between IP and non, GEPpers and non? To me, IP and non are the same, except one is through train, GEPpers and non are the same, except for the different curriculum for 3 years. Don't get this... :? Maybe this is where the main difference is... we are talking like parallel lines, close but never meet... 
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Hi Comfy, I knew that they considered the GEPpers' academic results for DSA selection. I am not sure how representative is the results since they are based on 500 students. Heard that it is abt 80% for P6 SA1 results for DSA selection and most likely they will get CO while GEpers with results 70-79.8% may just be in WL and most of them will be converted to CO (results range from <70% to >90% for whole GEPpers cohort which is about 500 GEPs) with ~ 10% go back to mainstream. If you have not given the opportunity to mainstreamers, how did you know that they are not suitable in IP program? Honestly, I'm not sure if all GEPper suitable for IP program, though they are trained for 3 years.
comfy:
Hi Melodies,
From reading your previous posts, you keeps on harping that it is not fair that Gep kids get into top IP school with lower PSLE score through DSA. But have you ever think that it is precisely that they have been through the 3 yrs GEP programme that they are selected + respectable academic results. You have even acknowledge that (see highlighted) and they are more or less suitable/prepare for IP programme.
So that why, I give my alternative suggestion to have more fairer way of getting students into the IP school. Since there are already two groups of students (GEP, mainstream) exit in our system and educated differently, then perhaps a new assessment system might be needed including PSLE exam (since I don't need MOE will abolish it). And of course for this group, no need for DSA. -
Melodies:
4 months to prepare 4 subjects. You have to ensure that you continue to do well in your stronger subjects. And at the same time, you need to work very hard on the weaker subject. Majority of the GEPpers can but there are some that need more time and hence do not well in PSLE.You need some practices but not drilling You have sufficient time to do the practice for PSLE if I recalled what you have said before. GEPpers can start prepare PSLE in mid May/June.
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atutor2001:
80% of students score minimum A in Chinese at PSLE, so scoring an A is not that big a deal. But scoring a weak A can pull your T-score down.jtoh:
....... There are many GEPpers who are weak in MT which invariably pulls down their T-score. Or there are those who are weak in Math. If they had stayed in mainstream and had all of P4/5/6 to prepare for PSLE I dare say they would have better PSLE scores.
This is where I find puzzling. Being gifted, they tend to have special ability, even for tackling subjects that they are weak in. An old friend who is a baba migrated to UK because her daughters were struggling with Chinese in primary school. Years later, she returned together with her kids because of her job . By then her children are in secondary level and she managed to get them into RGS. I taught they would suffer as there is Chinese. Surprisingly, they aced everything. This friend was much older then me and I regretted not seeking her advice on how she managed to make her kids pick up Chinese again, which was the cause of their migration. Is it because of a change in attitude as they had been exposed to a different learning environment in UK?
I also know many students who were good in mainly math and science. Miraculously, they were able to score A for Chinese. However, after a few years, they practically forgot everything. Such cases only make me feel that a gifted person has no problem with exams, no matter what the subject is. Perhaps those that can't is more of \"attitude problem.\"
I have to disagree with you about students who are 'gifted' having the ability to tackle any subject, even the ones they are weak in. That simply does not happen. MOE has said so as much in a briefing to parents. -
Nebbermind:
And that's true. Whatever doors opened will be closed ultimately. Of course it is even more unfair if they had already gotten into the school. But this is just a discussion and let it remain so, spend more time planning for alternative for your kid, guys. It is much more worth it than fighting with the policies, can never win wan. Better to work those creative juices and get something going for the kids rather than squeeze/compete with the crowd. Sometimes, a disadvantage is to get you to look to a better place, and advantage is a distraction for you to look for the best:idea:
Believe that once u get into one of those good sec school, u already can't tell whether it's a GEPpers or not. Everyone would be equally bright. And whatever EESIS they enjoy will be reviewed every yr.
GEP will only help you in some ways to open the next door and not beyond that...or that's what I believe
When my son got into GEP, my first reaction was :faint: , now how can I get involved and make his education different, as I knew the GEB held a tight rein. He would have gone on a normal GEP route if he had continued and struggling through PSLE etc etc. I am so glad he is no longer there, that's why he has more opportunities! Your kid might not have exactly the same experiences and the same doors opened, but you'll never know what is available until you try. Sometimes, we have to be forced to try. A blessing might be a sugar coated knife. At least it was for me. -
Chenonceau:
I dun understand why you address this to me. I never said that we should do away with GEP. Not sure about EESIS in the past. Dunno enough to comment. Sorry if this sounds curt. I dun know how type emoticons on smart phone. Took @#$!& long to type these few lines![/quote]No no, you've misunderstood what I've written. Or rather maybe my phrasing is awkward and led you to this. I am in agreement with you. I meant to say that like you, I do not think that MOE should get rid of GEP and that to do so (as some in the forum want) is akin to throwing the baby out with the bath water.
Hi Chen,jtoh:
[quote=\"Chenonceau\"]
There is also the possibility that the GEP test made a mistake and wrongly identified someone as gifted. No psychometric test is 100% reliable. GEP kids who don't score above a certain threshold should just be dropped (for their own good) in the same way that those who score 27+ at PSLE WERE often invited INTO the GEP in Sec 1... and therefore these DON'T get EESIS.
Beyond Fair or Unfair
We should NOT take away the GEP's privileges just because of a fairness issue. They are kids after all. Different or not, we need to love them because different kids are still the nation's legacy. The thing though, is that GEP's small classes facilitated the teaching through inquiry and self-directed learning. These are learning styles characteristic of gifted learners. However, since the inquiry-based learning has hopped over from GEP to mainstream (and I think it is a good thing) then why are classes in mainstream still at 40?
I am beyond questioning issues of fairness. Let the GEP keep whatever privileges it has... BUT... allow mainstream teachers to teach smaller classes so that they can best effectuate inquiry-based learning too.
I'm thinking that in the past when there was still GEP in secondary school and students who did very well in PSLE were invited to join the programme then, there was no EESIS? Or am I mistaken?
I agree with you that the teaching methods adopted in GEP should be extended to the population at large. But it's something MOE is unable to do for lack of resources. (and a whole other debate). But for MOE to do away with GEP because it's viewed as unfair by some would be to throw the baby out with the bath water.
Hope I've expressed myself better now. paiseh. -
PiggyLalala:
Don't worry so much lah... 4 months to study for any exam is too much time! In the uni, the whole semester is 4 months! Got to get used to it, right? That means, most people study at most 1 month for an exam. Officially, they are only given 1 or 2 weeks.
4 months to prepare 4 subjects. You have to ensure that you continue to do well in your stronger subjects. And at the same time, you need to work very hard on the weaker subject. Majority of the GEPpers can but there are some that need more time and hence do not well in PSLE.Melodies:
You need some practices but not drilling You have sufficient time to do the practice for PSLE if I recalled what you have said before. GEPpers can start prepare PSLE in mid May/June.
In the uni, things are much harder and they also do 4 to 6 courses per semester. So chill! Ample time, my dear!
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