Is GEP really necessary?
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ksi:
Aiyo...how come suddenly I feel so \"naked\"? :oops:
Yes, Yes, Dr ksi.. We know your ''TOP-less'' talent.. And we LOVE it...firefly38:
[quote=\"ksi\"]
This is what people cannot understand and it has been explained... it seems that people are so caught up in being top that everything is only measured by TOP. If TOP-less, then no GEP calibre.
btw, congrats osim, 90%+ is great all-rounder for GEP, even for mainstream is great.
:salute:
[/quote] :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao:
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atutor2001:
I actually thought that the GEP was targeted at the HA kids and not the truly gifted as there are far too few. Sadly many selected are not even HA but are the products of hot-housing at primary level. Such kids run out of steam. HA kids don't run out of steam but will not do well if the subject is not of interest to them. The results I have shown was refering to A-level, where the kids themselves select the subject of their preference. So we are saying that they could not find 4 subjects that they truly like. I actually think so because they generally, don't like to study.
Maybe you should consult 2ppaamm, to her, they are not gifted only HA...so maybe HA run out of steam? or maybe they are gifted children as they are skewed in some subjects, so maybe this results show that they are in fact gifted but skewed? Your expectation is gifted and all rounders, hers is gifted and skewed. So now we understand how the labeling of GEP is made complicated by adults.
......
Truly gifted are all-rounder. I have met many gifted people. While others were busy copying notes, the gifted only sat there, having already understood and stored the information in their own harddisk (brain).
Basic traits of a truly gifted :
a) Speed reading
b) Great ability in understanding and analysis at high speed.
c) Elephant memory with unlimited storage capacity for all subjects
d) Ability to see links and patterns that others don't
Can a truly gifted, who is endowed with such natural talents not do well in exam because they are skewed? Their elephant memory will pull them through easily even if they don't like it.
HA kids usually have (a) and (b) and some also have (d). However, they don't have (c). It is \"elephant memory\" that allows the gifted to process new issues with cross reference to a much bigger data base at high speed and coming up with a solution. A HA kid needs to wake up and start storing all the info to do well. Those that failed to wake up will be lost in the crowd.
Hot-housed kids has only (a). At young age, their (b) appears good as they went through accelerated learning. As years go by, without the other factors, their results will suffer.[/quote]
That shows the selection proceed somehow is not right. It doesn't pick up the real gifted ones. -
ruohoo97:
That shows the selection proceed somehow is not right. It doesn't pick up the real gifted ones.
Obviously u have not attained Enlightenment!
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2ppaamm:
But that explanation is not correct leh...
I see vlim has offered another approach to explain this, (n+1)th time. Check it out.ksi:
[quote=\"Melodies\"]Hi, tks for your patience to reiterate again, not that I didn't read that, I read that but no want can explain exactly why need to do this type of re-iteration to nth degree by having a standardized program for every GEPper. I'm saying of having a few drafts but I'm saying why there is a standardized program with everything are the same. Are they trying to make every GEPper to be Leonardo da Vinci by using the precision way? :yikes:
A child in my extended family (b. 1989) was chosen for Math alone and the parents were told specifically that he was chosen for Math.
My friend's daughter (b. 1988) was chosen for English alone, for she was an avid reader from 4 years old.
My student1 (b. 1986) was chosen for English and he told me he suffered because it is Math heavy, and classmate to our PM's son.
My student2 (b. 1989) was chosen for Math and he enjoyed the system.
My friend, who was the RGS Math HOD, told me it was impossible to teach those GEPpers who went through in English. These children pulled their class average down, and his KPI down. This current system makes sense, because it makes teaching much easier for teachers. I asked him how about those left out. He said, bo bian lor... teachers' interest must also be taken into consideration...
Not say, say only. Got proof one.
So the current selection DOES leave out all these children, so yes, I have to repeat myself again... hahaha. That the GEP does LEAVE OUT MANY, MANY gifted, and therefore, many, many HIGH ABILITY get in instead. NOTHING WRONG. Just different, MOE has chosen to nurture the High Ability and not the gifted. So be it. Too bad for the country.[/quote]Hi, my DS's friend got in too because was prepared before hand. So I do somewhat agreed on the above in blue. I don't want to say so much cause his mum might be reading this.
:siam: -
ruohoo97:
Wah...what a BIG conclusion to draw just be reading this.....
That shows the selection proceed somehow is not right. It doesn't pick up the real gifted ones.atutor2001:
I actually thought that the GEP was targeted at the HA kids and not the truly gifted as there are far too few. Sadly many selected are not even HA but are the products of hot-housing at primary level. Such kids run out of steam. HA kids don't run out of steam but will not do well if the subject is not of interest to them. The results I have shown was refering to A-level, where the kids themselves select the subject of their preference. So we are saying that they could not find 4 subjects that they truly like. I actually think so because they generally, don't like to study.
Truly gifted are all-rounder. I have met many gifted people. While others were busy copying notes, the gifted only sat there, having already understood and stored the information in their own harddisk (brain).
Basic traits of a truly gifted :
a) Speed reading
b) Great ability in understanding and analysis at high speed.
c) Elephant memory with unlimited storage capacity for all subjects
d) Ability to see links and patterns that others don't
Can a truly gifted, who is endowed with such natural talents not do well in exam because they are skewed? Their elephant memory will pull them through easily even if they don't like it.
HA kids usually have (a) and (b) and some also have (d). However, they don't have (c). It is \"elephant memory\" that allows the gifted to process new issues with cross reference to a much bigger data base at high speed and coming up with a solution. A HA kid needs to wake up and start storing all the info to do well. Those that failed to wake up will be lost in the crowd.
Hot-housed kids has only (a). At young age, their (b) appears good as they went through accelerated learning. As years go by, without the other factors, their results will suffer.
I sure hope you have read all the other posts. -
2ppaamm:
What an eye-opening! That is why I say, please write a book
I believe all kids should be given the SAME opportunities by the GOVERNMENT, not home yeah? Whether they are gifted, HA, average or below average. In a society, we must always look after the last 10%, and the average as well. It is not right to sink in the resources to look after only the top, because the top can always look after themselves, just like the rich in every country should always pay more taxes, and not get payouts.
As for being in GEP and they are facing so much expectations. To him much is given, much is expected. That's cruel, but that's the reality in life. As parents, we might find it cruel, but we have to teach them that that's the reality in life. Not sure about other parents, but I teach my kids that all the time. Do not expect differentiated treatment, and nobody owes us a living. If anything, because we are given more, we should have higher expectations of ourselves, and aim to contribute more. Yes, to the point of giving up our own rights sometimes. If someone steals my ideas and publish that, I keep mum, and go on with new research, and consequently, I will find even better things. And, I have been doing this all my life. Is it fair? To some, no. To me, yes! Because if I want to continue to be gifted more, I want to be big enough to be able to be disadvantaged and give. That's life. It is hard to explain, unless you can see it. DS1 came home and told me that he had to do a group project all by himself because his team members would do much to help. I told him to just complete the whole project, and put his teammates' name there. Yes, they took a ride on him. But SO WHAT? I'd like to teach my kids to give more than take, to expect more from himself than others, ultimately, he becomes a better person. That's all I care. There is no fairness in life, because if he is gifted more, and want to continue to be blessed, then he has to give better results. Also, I tell my children that people will always be a look out to find faults in them, and to accept that. This is not unfair and not cruel. This is how the world works. When you are good, people look for faults in you. Just because they are my kids does not change the reality. So, I prepare them for the cruel reality instead. This also explains why many gifted individuals have the <b>Imposter Syndrome</b>, which manifested from such expectations. So, there, it is nothing cruel, this area has been well-researched. And that is why I don't think giving them a label so young is beneficial to GEPpers, especially when so many were hothoused, and the selection criteria is so ill-defined, it sets these GEPpers up for failures. As it is with the system, there is only one way out for the GEPpers, and that is to perform better than the non. The system set that out this way, and yes, it is cruel, but if you look at it from the rest of the 99%, they have been told this is the cream, and therefore they expect the cream to perform.
So in short, yes, I believe the current GEP selection system does not select the gifted, but the high ability, but these are not mutually exclusive. It does not mean ALL high ability are not gifted. That is a wrong assumption. In fact the top 1-2% are mostly high ability, according to years of research by James T. Webb, Edward R. Amend, Nadia E. Webb, Jean Goerss, Paul Beljan, F. Richard Olench. Their findings have been well documented and studied by gifted teachers all over the world. They have also proven that in contrast, the very highly gifted are normally NOT high ability and underperformers, it is the highly gifted that will be left out. So that is not according to 2ppaamm, but by world renowned researchers who are expert in this area, experts not found in Singapore.
Thirdly, if the differentiated program by GEP is not individualized, then of course more than 1% can handle them. Some GEPpers cannot not because they are not gifted enough, but there are so many other factors, including the family background, motivation etc etc. Given the right support, my take is that about the top 25% can handle. Some will not be able to, but some can. The job is to find who can and who cannot along the way. It is not where they are in the percentile, but what kind of support, motivation they can get. But 25% is just a number, I am saying the curriculum can be open up to a much bigger group. And then, for the exceptional learners (notice I didn't say higher gifted), they should have programs to extend their learning capabilities in their pet areas. And, btw, at 9, it is impossible to tell what their areas of expertise are.
And, smaller class size is a must for a change in our education system. This means a much bigger educational budget by the government. How come no body ever does a comparison between what Singapore spent PER CHILD compared to other first world countries? :? I will reserve my findings until another appropriate time.
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Pam… I need your help on a matter unrelated to this. Can you check PM later?
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atutor2001:
I actually thought that the GEP was targeted at the HA kids and not the truly gifted as there are far too few. Sadly many selected are not even HA but are the products of hot-housing at primary level. Such kids run out of steam. HA kids don't run out of steam but will not do well if the subject is not of interest to them. The results I have shown was refering to A-level, where the kids themselves select the subject of their preference. So we are saying that they could not find 4 subjects that they truly like. I actually think so because they generally, don't like to study.
Maybe you should consult 2ppaamm, to her, they are not gifted only HA...so maybe HA run out of steam? or maybe they are gifted children as they are skewed in some subjects, so maybe this results show that they are in fact gifted but skewed? Your expectation is gifted and all rounders, hers is gifted and skewed. So now we understand how the labeling of GEP is made complicated by adults.ksi:
[quote=\"atutor2001\"]
....At A level, there is no T-score to pull down their grade and they can pick the subject of their choice. ...
......
Truly gifted are all-rounder. I have met many gifted people. While others were busy copying notes, the gifted only sat there, having already understood and stored the information in their own harddisk (brain).
Basic traits of a truly gifted :
a) Speed reading
b) Great ability in understanding and analysis at high speed.
c) Elephant memory with unlimited storage capacity for all subjects
d) Ability to see links and patterns that others don't
Can a truly gifted, who is endowed with such natural talents not do well in exam because they are skewed? Their elephant memory will pull them through easily even if they don't like it.
HA kids usually have (a) and (b) and some also have (d). However, they don't have (c). It is \"elephant memory\" that allows the gifted to process new issues with cross reference to a much bigger data base at high speed and coming up with a solution. A HA kid needs to wake up and start storing all the info to do well. Those that failed to wake up will be lost in the crowd.
Hot-housed kids has only (a). At young age, their (b) appears good as they went through accelerated learning. As years go by, without the other factors, their results will suffer.[/quote]If what you said in blue is true, I wonder why he is not selected then??? :?
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Nebbermind:
Why do you need to do that? It is purely the choose of parents of this child. Gifted or not gifted, I believe all the parents try whatever they think best for their child. It is not wrong to push a child to GEP. Just don't expect stellar results for every GEPper.atutor2001:
I actually thought that the GEP was targeted at the HA kids and not the truly gifted as there are far too few. Sadly many selected are not even HA but are the products of hot-housing at primary level.
If you know of someone in particular, please name and shame them. Pls donch group everyone else and kept insisting them been hot-housed. -
Mychildren:
You must be kidding to expect a 100% accuracy.
Hi, my DS's friend got in too because was prepared before hand. So I do somewhat agreed on the above in blue. I don't want to say so much cause his mum might be reading this.
:siam:
1. MOE can only try their best to be prudent in their processes to minimise but cannot eliminate. There is definitely a % of HA in there because between 1% and 1.1% any difference?
2. If that child is trained, the child already has the pre-requisite of innate ability. My personal experience is all those that I know who trained, DID NOT get in...and trained a few years...but academically doing above average in mainstream.
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