Population woes

[limlim]

3Boys:

After we spend all out effort and energy to educate our young, then we tell them, forget about competing for high value jobs, here in Singapore, we only want the easy lifestyle.

Exactly.. after educating them to perform high value jobs.. then they realized their wages suppressed due to influx of cheap unqualified foreign competition.....

Competitive in terms of skills, talent.. ok.. fair enough.. complete to be the cheapest? it will only demoralize them..

[3Boys]

limlim:

3Boys:

After we spend all out effort and energy to educate our young, then we tell them, forget about competing for high value jobs, here in Singapore, we only want the easy lifestyle.

Exactly.. after educating them to perform high value jobs.. then they realized their wages suppressed due to influx of cheap unqualified foreign competition.....

Competitive in terms of skills, talent.. ok.. fair enough.. complete to be the cheapest? it will only demoralize them..

You have quoted me out of context, it was a response to WeiHan's contention that we should dial back our economic competitiveness. That is not your position, is it?


In any case, you only look at one side of the equation, and may I say, you are being hyperbolic. Who in their right minds would hire unqualified persons to run their businesses? If they are equally qualified and cheap, then we have a big problem, because if they aren't working for us here in Singapore, they are working for our competitors in which case, sooner or later it will impact us, and in an even worse way.

If you think competing for jobs with foreigners in a 2% unemployment rate Singapore is stressful, wait till you are competing only with your own countrymen in a 25% unemployment rate (in a country that shall remain nameless). In the latter situation you don't have to worry about FW or FT.

Why only see one side of the story?

[mum_sugoku]

3Boys:

If I may add, a chief source of Greek pain is the uncompetitiveness of it's economy. Yes, they have high debt, but then so do many other countries. The point is they have 25% unemployment because they don't have the industries to compete with the rest of Europe. Overspending and debt then brings it crashing down. A competitive economy can work off high debt, an uncooperative one just stays unemployed.

But if we were to keep relying on \"size\" (keep importing people to meet demand) to remain competitive, then, we could only be competitive for as long as our tiny island can contain..

[limlim]

3Boys:

Why only see one side of the story?

No lah.. I get your point..

Just ranting only. Put it this way.... that situation maybe depressing.. but maybe \"no choice\" to remain competitive.. as you have explained..

I am just making a comment of a depressing example..

Not trying to demand the govt do something about it.. if they can.. good lah.. Until we have better suggestions/solutions.. not fair to blame them for everything..

Overall I can accept the general policies.. but felt that some tuning could have made it better.

[lim72]

limlim:

3Boys:

After we spend all out effort and energy to educate our young, then we tell them, forget about competing for high value jobs, here in Singapore, we only want the easy lifestyle.

Exactly.. after educating them to perform high value jobs.. then they realized their wages suppressed due to influx of cheap unqualified foreign competition.....

Competitive in terms of skills, talent.. ok.. fair enough.. complete to be the cheapest? it will only demoralize them..

:goodpost:

That is exactly what I'm trying to point out. The employer who was interviewed by bbc didn't mention quality but emphasized on the 'cheapness'of these foreign graduates. He assumed these graduates were good based on the assumption that they were from one of the 'top' universities. So are you prepared to tell your kids that based on same qualification, if you are not cheap enough, you can't compete with these foreigners. I really hope that I don't have to tell my ds this cruel truth.

[zarahsmom]

lim72:

limlim:

[quote=\"3Boys\"]After we spend all out effort and energy to educate our young, then we tell them, forget about competing for high value jobs, here in Singapore, we only want the easy lifestyle.

Exactly.. after educating them to perform high value jobs.. then they realized their wages suppressed due to influx of cheap unqualified foreign competition.....

Competitive in terms of skills, talent.. ok.. fair enough.. complete to be the cheapest? it will only demoralize them..

:goodpost:

That is exactly what I'm trying to point out. The employer who was interviewed by bbc didn't mention quality but emphasized on the 'cheapness'of these foreign graduates. He assumed these graduates were good based on the assumption that they were from one of the 'top' universities. So are you prepared to tell your kids that based on same qualification, if you are not cheap enough, you can't compete with these foreigners. I really hope that I don't have to tell my ds this cruel truth.[/quote]Perhaps the manufacturing (precision instrument) industry is a bit of an exception rather than the norm. I am pretty sure that in the IT industry particularly IT in banking/finance...as I am part of the decision making panel in terms of salary benchmarking.. its more expensive to hire foreigners..(again due to levy... if you are going to compare apples to apples==let us say am comparing a local graduate with exactly the same qualification as a foreign graduate.. the foreign graduate will still cost us more)..

[Funz]

They are already doing that. Just that the effect may not be felt so soon and may not be seen by most.


You point about fraudulent qualifications. MOM does random checks, as to do 100% checks will mean a long wait for all businesses to obtain the necessary manpower to continue running their business. I lost a very good staff as her certs were questionable, not proven fraudulent but due to the changes in qualification criteria she no longer meets the standard. It is also getting harder to renew employment passes for these staff. I held back on expanding because of staffing issues, local and otherwise. Quite a few fellow business owners have indicated that as well.

And give business owners some credit lah. They do have common sense too ya know. Why in the world would anyone hire someone just because they are cheap if they are not able to perform. And even if they do make the mistake of hiring a cheap lousy staff who cannot perform they will not retain them.

[3Boys]

lim72:

I really hope that I don't have to tell my ds this cruel truth.

If it's a truth, it's a truth. If people elsewhere can do things as well but more cheaply than Singapore, then it's not just your DS, but all of us that need face up to it.

The competition will occur, whether you like it or not, the only question is whether you prefer them to be competing with you for jobs IN Singapore, but at least contributing to the strength of the local economy, or competing with you from OUTSIDE Singapore, and potentially beating you and sucking the jobs out of the country.

I know what I prefer.

[zarahsmom]

3Boys:

lim72:

I really hope that I don't have to tell my ds this cruel truth.

If it's a truth, it's a truth. If people elsewhere can do things as well but more cheaply than Singapore, then it's not just your DS, but all of us that need face up to it.

The competition will occur, whether you like it or not, the only question is whether you prefer them to be competing with you for jobs IN Singapore, but at least contributing to the strength of the local economy, or competing with you from OUTSIDE Singapore, and potentially beating you and sucking the jobs out of the country.

I know what I prefer.

I prefer to be a foreigner in Singapore than a foreigner elsewhere.. that I know for sure. Ive learned to love this country as much as my own, my daughter was born and currently being raised here.. she will feel uprooted if we move somewhere else.

[limlim]

zarahsmom:

Perhaps the manufacturing (precision instrument) industry is a bit of an exception rather than the norm. I am pretty sure that in the IT industry particularly IT in banking/finance...as I am part of the decision making panel in terms of salary benchmarking.. its more expensive to hire foreigners..(again due to levy... if you are going to compare apples to apples==let us say am comparing a local graduate with exactly the same qualification as a foreign graduate.. the foreign graduate will still cost us more)..

why can't your company pay the local salary= (FT's pay + levy)?

btw, EP got levy meh? since when?