Population woes
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limlim:
Pple talking about jobs requiring degree holder, and comparing local grad against FT (which in this context should posses a degree from foreign university).. not whether to employ grad or non-grad.
Well, for that kind of position, I am not likely to employ an FT fresh from a university I have never heard of even if the FT is $1,000 a month cheaper (no chance to impress at the interview here because the CV will end up in the bin).
But if the FT has a good degree from a reputable foreign university, then the fresh local grad will have a problem.
And if the FT is a PR with a good degree from a reputable foreign university who grew up in Singapore, then the local grad asking $1,000 more is not likely to get the job unless he/she is able to demonstrate that he/she is so much better than the other person.
So it all boils down to what kind of degree and what category of FT people are talking about. -
pirate:
so it voices down to :limlim:
Pple talking about jobs requiring degree holder, and comparing local grad against FT (which in this context should posses a degree from foreign university).. not whether to employ grad or non-grad.
Well, for that kind of position, I am not likely to employ an FT fresh from a university I have never heard of even if the FT is $1,000 a month cheaper (no chance to impress at the interview here because the CV will end up in the bin).
But if the FT has a good degree from a reputable foreign university, then the fresh local grad will have a problem.
And if the FT is a PR with a good degree from a reputable foreign university who grew up in Singapore, then the local grad asking $1,000 more is not likely to get the job unless he/she is able to demonstrate that he/she is so much better than the other person.
So it all boils down to what kind of degree and what category of FT people are talking about.
for example
junior executive opening
candidate A - good local degree, no work experience, asking for $3k.
candidate B - good foreign degree, no work experience, asking for $2k.
the choice is not about apple/orange comparision, it is the case where apple/apple comparison, the local candidate loses out because of the expected salary. -
verykiasumummy:
At a 40-50% cost premium, yah. 10-20%, probably no. That assumes that I have not already used up my dependency ceiling or S-pass sub-quota on lower level staff.so it voices down to :
for example
junior executive opening
candidate A - good local degree, no work experience, asking for $3k.
candidate B - good foreign degree, no work experience, asking for $2k.
the choice is not about apple/orange comparision, it is the case where apple/apple comparison, the local candidate loses out because of the expected salary.
But on an apple/apple comparison, we not talking about an incompetent FT. -
pirate:
At a 40-50% cost premium, yah. 10-20%, probably no. That assumes that I have not already used up my dependency ceiling or S-pass sub-quota on lower level staff.verykiasumummy:
so it voices down to :
for example
junior executive opening
candidate A - good local degree, no work experience, asking for $3k.
candidate B - good foreign degree, no work experience, asking for $2k.
the choice is not about apple/orange comparision, it is the case where apple/apple comparison, the local candidate loses out because of the expected salary.
But on an apple/apple comparison, we not talking about an incompetent FT.
this is the reason why, everytime I have the chance, i tell my fellow FW not to spoil the market and drive the salary benchmarks down..
anyway, I believe an employer who have good sense that a candidate (regardless FT or not) who demands less compared to market rate, knows that this candidate did not do his/her homework, and would not hire.. a person asking for 2K even if the market rate is at 3k. if this employer decide based on dollars and scents instead of common sense, he (employer) will suffer in the end. cost and added value should always be a deciding factor...
a person who asks for 3K/per month and will save an employer 24,000 per year (due to efficiency and smart negotiating techniques with vendors/clients), will always add value than someone who only asks for 2K/per month but is just doing the bare minimum to clock 8 hours a day.
also bear in mind that hiring a 2K/month FW, means S-pass, then have to pay levy...
sad to say though, that there are some local companies who would hire FW and declare that they are paying them $3,200 per month, but is only actually paying FW 2K per month...(woe to the FW who agreed to this set-up_ :slapshead: :stupid: -
higher declared income can means better chance at PR…
They are not exactly short-changed… they would feel that they worth only $2k but the higher declared income is not w/o benefits to them (and of coz the company).
So both are cheating the govt.
And the FW cheats again when they declare the false income in PR application. -
zarahsmom:
Yeah, but the market rate for a fresh local graduate with a general arts degree is in the region of $2k-$3k. For a fresh graduate with no experience and no track record, it's just a crapshoot for the employer anyway. That's what the probation period is for.anyway, I believe an employer who have good sense that a candidate (regardless FT or not) who demands less compared to market rate, knows that this candidate did not do his/her homework, and would not hire.. a person asking for 2K even if the market rate is at 3k. if this employer decide based on dollars and scents instead of common sense, he (employer) will suffer in the end. cost and added value should always be a deciding factor...
a person who asks for 3K/per month and will save an employer 24,000 per year (due to efficiency and smart negotiating techniques with vendors/clients), will always add value than someone who only asks for 2K/per month but is just doing the bare minimum to clock 8 hours a day.
also bear in mind that hiring a 2K/month FW, means S-pass, then have to pay levy...
And for a local, the employer have to pay employer's CPF. Yeah, it's not exactly fair...zarahsmom:
That would be illegal. I agree with limlim that both are cheating. Anyone who knows any such cases should report it.sad to say though, that there are some local companies who would hire FW and declare that they are paying them $3,200 per month, but is only actually paying FW 2K per month...(woe to the FW who agreed to this set-up_ :slapshead: :stupid:
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actually the cheating case that I was talking about happened 6 years ago (husband of my former house mate)… he reported the case to MOM as the employer not only falsely declared his salary but also kept his passport in the office. when he reported this case to MOM, his passport then was withheld by MOM, for "safekeeping" and to ensure he doesnt leave the country during the investigation period. result? he got the market rate salary, and he finished his contract with his employer.
He and his wife are still working here in Singapore. He moved to another employer. Other cases that I know about are just 2nd hand information, so am not in a position to report it…
just raising that such cases (illegal/cheating) are happening… -
pirate:
The $2K/$3K sample is just a hypothetical figure to demonstrate that employers (sensible ones) should not hire based on cost alone but use cost-benefit analysis and compute projected monetized value of hiring someone who genuinely deserves the market rate ... regardless FW or local talent. There are competency based interview packages that employers can avail (and get trained on how to use), in order for them to separate the wheat from the chaff during the interview process (and of course, there is still a probation period--> for a battery test so to speak)...
Yeah, but the market rate for a fresh local graduate with a general arts degree is in the region of $2k-$3k. For a fresh graduate with no experience and no track record, it's just a crapshoot for the employer anyway. That's what the probation period is for.zarahsmom:
anyway, I believe an employer who have good sense that a candidate (regardless FT or not) who demands less compared to market rate, knows that this candidate did not do his/her homework, and would not hire.. a person asking for 2K even if the market rate is at 3k. if this employer decide based on dollars and scents instead of common sense, he (employer) will suffer in the end. cost and added value should always be a deciding factor...
a person who asks for 3K/per month and will save an employer 24,000 per year (due to efficiency and smart negotiating techniques with vendors/clients), will always add value than someone who only asks for 2K/per month but is just doing the bare minimum to clock 8 hours a day.
also bear in mind that hiring a 2K/month FW, means S-pass, then have to pay levy...
And for a local, the employer have to pay employer's CPF. Yeah, it's not exactly fair...
I would also say that SCs and PRs always have the advantage when it comes to applying for jobs in Singapore.. one just have to look at efinancialcareers and Roberwalters career site, and you would see that they all prefer SCs and PRs....
on the employee side.. here is another scenario
candidate have 15 years experience in the industry and have competency 1-5, but is currently taking care of an aged parent and a very young child. so this candidate prefers a low profile job, wherein he will only utilise competency 1-2 (competency 3-5, he will not be able to use).
of course if you are just utilising competency 1-2 you would not expect to be paid dollar for dollar for a role that requires competency 3-5 too)...
lets make this scenario a little bit more complicated.. this candidate happend to be a local and since he is applying for a low profile job, he will be competing against junior/entry-level FW and local grads at the $2K-$3K range..
we all know that local candidate can earn as much as $8K-$10K if he utilises all of his competencies (1-5), but again he is just applying for a junior/entry level job, that really requires just competency 1-2,
would you think that would still be unfair? if the local gets the job but only earns between $2-$3K? would it be too presumptuos for the candidate to ask for $8K for \"potential\" or ability to do above and beyond, if really, all that is required of the job is to \"put stamps on envelopes\" and nothing more than that? -
what is competency 3-5?
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limlim:
what is competency 3-5?
let us say
Comptency 3: Impact and Influence (level 4 on a scale of 1-4, 4 being highest)
Competency 4: Handling Difficult conversations (level 4 on a scale of 1-4, 4 being highest)
Competency 5: Target Account Selling (level 4 on a scale of 1-4, 4 being highest)
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