Population woes
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limlim:
Surprise surprise.... shortage of appropriate labour IS a BIG reason businesses close (or don't come in the first place), regardless of what you think.I don't believe a biz will close bcoz of cannot find workers.
biz only close when there is no business..
What irritates me most about your post is that you make grand sweeping statements without even trying to understand what drives the business for that particular shop.
He sells mass market food, there is a price ceiling. In order to pay his rent and fixed costs like electricity, he needs to turn over a certain amount of revenue. In order to sustain that level of turnover, he needs his business to be at a certain scale. To be at that scale, he needs a certain number of employees. This is a food business, it is labour intensive. Even a 3-Michelin star restaurant in New York needs cooks and chefs, servers, front of house. This guy needs a minimum number of staff. If he can't be at a certain scale, the restaurant closes. It's not just about costs.
Simple. -
limlim:
So what?
Another one talked about his friend complain to him that biz is hard hit, workers asking more salary, biz cannot survive. So he asks his friend, \"Didn't you just changed a new car? how much do you take home every month?\" His friend diam diam.
He opened the business, he takes all the risk. Who knows he had mortgaged the house to get the thing off the ground in the first place, he doesn't have a right live off it? If the business folds, the workers walk away, the business owner may be saddled with a ton of debt.
Don't make it out as if the workers are always the victim. -
3Boys:
Other restaurant can survive and his can't.
What irritates me most about your post is that you make grand sweeping statements without even trying to understand what drives the business for that particular shop.
Simple.
Workers cannot be the only reason.
What irritates me is that biz owners are always complain about not enough workers, why they cannot reflect on their operations?
What is the profit margin of a biz like restaurant? $10k? $20k?
If there is 10 workers, each one pay rise by $200, it adds $2k to the cost. the biz go bust?
Of coz, all these are empty talk.. unless someone comes in with a statement of accounts for a restaurant, then, we can judge. -
3Boys:
What you typed is irrelevant to whether the biz can survive or not.
So what?limlim:
Another one talked about his friend complain to him that biz is hard hit, workers asking more salary, biz cannot survive. So he asks his friend, \"Didn't you just changed a new car? how much do you take home every month?\" His friend diam diam.
He opened the business, he takes all the risk. Who knows he had mortgaged the house to get the thing off the ground in the first place, he doesn't have a right live off it? If the business folds, the workers walk away, the business owner may be saddled with a ton of debt.
Don't make it out as if the workers are always the victim.
Anyway, you say now labour shortage rite? if his biz go bust, the workers are laid off, they should hv no difficulty finding job at other establishment who are so in need of workers.. so. there is no unemployment concern.. so.. no issue for the country ya? bcoz the worry that biz close worker no job is hardly there. -
limlim:
Anyway, you say now labour shortage rite? if his biz go bust, the workers are laid off, they should hv no difficulty finding job at other establishment who are so in need of workers.. so. there is no unemployment concern.. so.. no issue for the country ya? bcoz the worry that biz close worker no job is hardly there.
No worries. After enough restaurants and \"low productivity\" small businesses in the F&B sector go bust, we will find that prices have gone up and \"value add\" with it.
Personally, I think Singaporeans are too addicted to cheap labour and pay too little to get other people to cook for them and wash their dishes anyways. I am a great fan of eateries increasing their prices if they find that they have more customers than they can handle. Singaporeans may grumble, but if the food is yummy enough, they will come back.
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limlim:
What you typed is irrelevant to whether the biz can survive or not.
So what?3Boys:
[quote=\"limlim\"]
Another one talked about his friend complain to him that biz is hard hit, workers asking more salary, biz cannot survive. So he asks his friend, \"Didn't you just changed a new car? how much do you take home every month?\" His friend diam diam.
He opened the business, he takes all the risk. Who knows he had mortgaged the house to get the thing off the ground in the first place, he doesn't have a right live off it? If the business folds, the workers walk away, the business owner may be saddled with a ton of debt.
Don't make it out as if the workers are always the victim.
Anyway, you say now labour shortage rite? if his biz go bust, the workers are laid off, they should hv no difficulty finding job at other establishment who are so in need of workers.. so. there is no unemployment concern.. so.. no issue for the country ya? bcoz the worry that biz close worker no job is hardly there.[/quote]Why is it irrelevant? it is a direct response to your assertion that the business owner should take a haircut, perhaps a large one. Labour shortage is temporary, it is the consequence of a hot economy. If too many things (like labour rigidity) get in the way, the end game is a slow growth economy. Just take a look around, the consequences of that are obvious. And when we get there we won't find it so easy to reverse.
Can't just think in one dimension or at a single point in time. -
limlim:
The fact of the matter is that he HAS CLOSED the restaurant and cited labour rigidity as THE ISSUE. The point is, whatever his margin, it is no longer enough for him to feels its worth his while to continue.
Other restaurant can survive and his can't.3Boys:
What irritates me most about your post is that you make grand sweeping statements without even trying to understand what drives the business for that particular shop.
Simple.
Workers cannot be the only reason.
What irritates me is that biz owners are always complain about not enough workers, why they cannot reflect on their operations?
What is the profit margin of a biz like restaurant? $10k? $20k?
If there is 10 workers, each one pay rise by $200, it adds $2k to the cost. the biz go bust?
Of coz, all these are empty talk.. unless someone comes in with a statement of accounts for a restaurant, then, we can judge.
What's the point of you second guessing or rationalizing when you actually have no clue as to his motivation or margins?
In the other thread about tuition, you plead passionately that even if not everyone feels the issue, it does not mean that there is no problem. How about here? Just because other restaurants remain open does not mean that there is no growing issue about labour rigidity. -
3Boys:
According to you, bcoz the biz owner take huge risk, in times of trouble, he shd be excused from biting the bullet (something to that effect).
Why is it irrelevant? it is a direct response to your assertion that the business owner should take a haircut, perhaps a large one. Labour shortage is temporary, it is the consequence of a hot economy. If too many things (like labour rigidity) get in the way, the end game is a slow growth economy. Just take a look around, the consequences of that are obvious. And when we get there we won't find it so easy to reverse.
Can't just think in one dimension or at a single point in time.
Similarly, if a local grad took huge loan and invested few years struggling in the university, they shd not reduce their expectation even in the mist of foreign competition? going by your argument?
No right? Each party adjust their expectations accordingly.
Anyway, I didn't say the workers is always the victim.
For the biz owners, if other biz can survive and they can't, they need to reflect on themselves.
For the workers, if other workers can find job and they can't, they need to reflect on themselves too.
And...... what is wrong with a slow growth economy? I don't find any benefit from a economy that is too hot, too fast growth leh.. -
limlim:
At least recognize that there are many people who do not want a slow growth economy.
And...... what is wrong with a slow growth economy? I don't find any benefit from a economy that is too hot, too fast growth leh..
Do you even realize what the implications of that are? You only hear the 'good stuff'.
How about slower wage growth...less demand for labour....higher taxes.....fewer services.
You must always look at the pros and cons. -
3Boys:
I just realized I don't know why I'm debating with you over this..
The fact of the matter is that he HAS CLOSED the restaurant and cited labour rigidity as THE ISSUE. The point is, whatever his margin, it is no longer enough for him to feels its worth his while to continue.
What's the point of you second guessing or rationalizing when you actually have no clue as to his motivation or margins?
In the other thread about tuition, you plead passionately that even if not everyone feels the issue, it does not mean that there is no problem. How about here? Just because other restaurants remain open does not mean that there is no growing issue about labour rigidity.
My view is, the govt has taken the WRONG approach. They should control the pinoy PMETs, Not FWs.. which is essential for biz like restaurants to operate as they are labor intensive!
Actually, I mentioned before, I agree that FW is essential for some biz, esp F&B..
My argument is targeted at those establishment employing PMETs, not FW.
I guess I need to go and do some editing liao.....
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