Population woes

[limlim]

Always bring in those "non-issue" and use as smoke screen from the REAL issue which they avoid.


FW is good example… tighten FW for what… most pple recognise the need for them to keep biz.

Now, they quote the example of the FT sent from HQ…

totally missed the problem area.

[3Boys]

limlim:

3Boys:

Your assertion that a small drop in profits will not affect the businesses much is complete nonsense, plucked from thin air. You have it in your mind that you are stating facts when it is really pure speculation since you have not demonstrated any understanding of what drives businesses.

Compete nonsense puck from thin air? so the million dollar profits posted by listed companies are fake isit?

The profit figures in BLACK & WHITE are speculation?

Stop making simple thing complicated and confusing to layman.

Revenue - Cost = PROFIT. period.

I am NOT trying to make things confusing. BUT, this is the crux of the problem when people take an overly simplistic view of numbers. I have tried very very hard to boil it down and explain how these things work and to help people look beyond the headline numbers, which is all people do and hence arrive at the same erroneous conclusions that you do.

Millions of dollar based on what revenue and what number of employees?

If a company makes 10 million dollars of profit on an employee base of 100,000 people and revenue of 1 billion, that's only a productivity of 100 dollar per employee and margin of 1%. To you a 10 million dollar profit is a lot and should be distributed to workers, to any other observer, this is a company in deep trouble.

Don't be fooled by the headline numbers, you got to dig below to understand.

[3Boys]

limlim:

As for the details in running a biz.. I can accept that indeed some biz, especially F&B and labour intensive ones need help in that area. So let's not debate on those since there is no disagreement on the need for affordable workers.

However, for PMETs, it is different. For most companies, PMETs are indirect cost, and I doubt it can be 50% of running cost, especially for manufacturing with turnover in millions. I don't see the mass influx of FT necessary to sustain these business. Of coz, This not not include those send from HQ which are deemed as necessary support. I only talked about those recruited locally.

What do you mean they are INDIRECT costs? Please don't throw such terms around out of context. Labour impacts bottom line directly.

So the only group that are deserving of wage protection are the PMETs? Because you are one of them? Why not the production line workers, why not upper management?

It is clear from these last 2 posts that you really have no clue. I wrote a long post on margins, yet you choose to focus on raw numbers instead, reveals a complete lack of understanding of what matters to businesses.

If Microsoft made $1 billion in profits in 2012, would you consider that an obscene amount of profits which should immediately result in a pay rise for workers?

<http://www.microsoft.com/investor/reports/ar11/financial_highlights/index.html>

Microsoft turned over nearly $70 billion in 2011 and $1 billion in profits for MSFT would be a total disaster and they probably need to be finding a way of cutting costs and growing top line.

You can't just look at one number and jump to some inappropriate conclusion. You ave no sense of proportionality. I have written at great length and pleaded with you to go educate yourself a little on how these things work for companies, please find a few local companies and dig through their annual reports, over a few years. A company with a MARGIN (extremely important number) of 10%, with labour cost of 50% of total costs (not unusual for quite a few industries), if they raise labour costs by 10% ($3000 pm to $3300 pm, for example), would approximately HALVE its margin from 10% to 5%. This is an economic/accounting fact, and I am not trying to confuse anyone, I am trying to EXPLAIN that it is not as simple as you think!

I am NOT trying to confuse you, I am trying to make you understand what companies need to look at when they make decisions on costs, salaries, or ultimately whether to continue a business. In fact, you are confused right now because you wonder why, with all the seemingly huge profit numbers, why companies don't raise wages or complain about competitiveness. I am trying to explain to you, PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE look beyond JUST A SINGLE number, it is not the only indicator of the company's health!

[3Boys]

limlim:

Always bring in those \"non-issue\" and use as smoke screen from the REAL issue which they avoid.


FW is good example.. tighten FW for what.. most pple recognise the need for them to keep biz.

Now, they quote the example of the FT sent from HQ..

totally missed the problem area.

To you, as long as they don't fit your understanding of the world, they are somehow throwing smoke or trying to pull a fast one.

It can never be that you have a faulty understanding of what concerns businesses. Companies and people like myself are just throwing out numbers to confuse the layman.

IN your world, only PMETS need to be protected, upper management, bring from HQ, production line, open to foreigners.

And I thought you were taking a holistic view.

[limlim]

3Boys:

So the only group that are deserving of wage protection are the PMETs? Because you are one of them? Why not the production line workers, why not upper management?

My job is immune to FT competition.

That's all I want to say now.

[3Boys]

limlim:

3Boys:

So the only group that are deserving of wage protection are the PMETs? Because you are one of them? Why not the production line workers, why not upper management?

My job is immune to FT competition.

That's all I want to say now.

Don't just stop here and forget everything else I wrote.

[Nebbermind]

hmmm....mindef or some stat board under them....that's my guess

[limlim]

3Boys:

IN your world, only PMETS need to be protected, upper management, bring from HQ, production line, open to foreigners.

And I thought you were taking a holistic view.

I never say only PMETs need to be protect. That's your own erroneous conclusion.

I am just considering practically. On why FW is necessary but FT is not much so. By considering supply and demand.

Consider Blue collar workers. Assuming you eliminate/restrict FW and protect the workers.. Is it able to solve the labor shortage problem? NO! Yes it would make it SLIGHTLY easier to hire workers, but, many biz still will have to fold because THERE IS NOT ENOUGH WORKERS!

Why? bcoz most locals doesn't want to do blue collar jobs! That's a simple fact isn't it? For the SAME pay, would you rather do white collar or blue collar job? Would you rather be admin clerk in air con room or washing dishes and clearing tables?

IT is not a simple case of reducing profit.. If there is NO SUPPLY, even if every F&B companies pay $2k for dishwasher they will not be able to fill all vacancies! For that pay, pple would rather go and be a clerk or admin. Are you NOT aware of this or do you feel that my comment is pure speculation, that increasing pay will not solve the blue collar labor shortage issue?

That is why, I say, FW is necessary. simply because local supply CANNOT meet DEMAND.

However, the case for PMETs is DIFFERENT.

Locals do NOT shun these jobs. Every year, the local Universities churn out how many graduates? How about the Polys etc? Do we not have enough skilled workers?

Why do we need so many FTs? Are there not enough local supply?

COST, profit is the only consideration for these positions, not availability/supply.

That is why, I feel, so much FTs is NOT necessary.

However, even for PMETs, in healthcare, environmental engineering etc.. if there is not enough supply of locals, I would also agree that FTs for these positions is necessary. Because local not enough SUPPLY, not bcoz they are not cheap enough.

If there is NOT ENOUGH local supply (due to nature of job, not pay), I am not against FTs for those positions.

Is this not holistic view?

[limlim]

3Boys:

limlim:

[quote=\"3Boys\"]

So the only group that are deserving of wage protection are the PMETs? Because you are one of them? Why not the production line workers, why not upper management?

My job is immune to FT competition.

That's all I want to say now.

Don't just stop here and forget everything else I wrote.[/quote]I don't type as fast as you.

[limlim]

3Boy, I do not discount what you wrote about biz operations.


I just want to clarify why my views towards importing foreign labor with regards to FW & FT is different.