Opinions of the Primary School Registration System
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rains:
I don't understand how it breeds elitism across the board.
I include PV in phase 2B for anyone who volunteers with the motive of wanting a place as a reward. The ones who are genuine volunteers are the ones with kids in the school already as they do not have much to gain except the inside story, which incidentally any existing parent of the school can volunteer to get too.SAHM_TAN:
Do you include PV in P2B for breeding elitism too? For all schools or just the top schools?
I submitted 4 PV application forms and out of the 4 only 1 school will encourage the breeding of elitism.
School A - only have 1 duty for PV. As long you have commonsense you can do the job. All are welcomed to apply, balloting is carried out to determine who can PV.
School B - I called the in-charge and was accepted on the spot LOL, application to be submitted online as record.
School C - I collected the PV form, submitted it and a few months later rec'd a call to inform me that I'm accepted.
School D - I submitted the form, rec'd notification to attend interview. I was questioned and told to wait for letter of acceptance.
It's not the phase that creates elitism, it's the school. It's not sour grapes hor when I said it's the school and not the phase that creates elitism. I was accepted
by School D too. I'm very ordinary, nothing elite about me.
I PVed at my dd1's school to get a chance for her to be in the school but I'm willing to con't to help the school. Just that right now with my brood, I have to delay my help. I IOU first LOL. Anyway with 3 kids, I have many more yrs and chances to offer my services. -
Sun_2010:
I doubt if those who studied at Harvard or Oxford get such leeway. Learned scholars( 3B, pirate and others) in this forum please comment
I don't know about Harvard, but I know that Oxford admissions take into account the school where the applicant comes from. 20 years ago, an admissions tutor once commented, \"Oh. 4As from Hwa Chong. Big deal. Everybody from Hwa Chong gets 4As\". If there are 2 applicants of the same calibre and only one vacancy left, one comes from a brand name school and another comes from a neighbourhood school nobody has ever heard of before, the one from the school nobody has ever heard of before is much more likely to get the place than the one from the brand name school.
The problem I see is not primary school admissions. The problem I see is university and secondary school admissions in Singapore failing to take into account where the candidate comes from, pretending that 'all schools are good schools'.
I would say tweak the secondary school admission system instead of the primary school admission system. Introduce a handicap system into the secondary school admission system. Say take the national mean T-score and the school's mean T-score. Then adjust the candidate's T-score by half* the difference between the national mean T-score and the school's mean T-score.
For example, say the national mean T-score in a particular year is 220. School X's mean T-score is 250, while School Y's is 200. Student A and Student B both have raw T-scores of 270. A's adjusted T-score will be 270-(0.5*(250-220)) = 255. B's adjusted T-score will however be 270+(0.5*(220-200)) = 280.
Seriously, someone from a school with mean T-score of 200 scoring 270 is much more impressive than someone from a school with mean T-score of 250 scoring 270.
I dare say all the angst about 'branded' primary school admission and lack of diversity will go away instantly.
* this number I only pull out of the air. Can be any appropriate factor or number based on the bell-curve. -
I’ve been reading this thread with interest, even though I’ve lived overseas for most of my life and have no kids yet. (Not that they will be studying in Singapore when I do have them). It’s hard (if not impossible) to come up with a perfect scheme, but objectively (as none of this impacts me or mine), the absolute priority given to alumni definitely seems flawed. I left Singapore in the middle of P2, and I attended Rosyth primary. It’s crazy to think that if I were still a Singapore citizen, my kids (if i applied for Singapore citizenship for them) could potentially have priority into Rosyth over those who live next to the school. I live in New Zealand, and over here, all schools are zoned, and basically, if you live within a school’s zone, by law, they have to accept you. I wouldn’t say this is perfect either, as parents are starting pay through the nose to secure a house in a desirable school zone, and some schools are starting to feel quite elitist. However, distance priority does so far seem to be the fairest way of allocating places in a school. I just looked up out of zone enrolments for schools that still have places after all in-zone students have been accepted, and this is the order of priority:
First priority must be given to any applicant who is accepted for enrolment in a special programme run by the school.
Second priority must be given to any applicant who is the sibling of a current student of the school.
Third priority must be given to any student who is the sibling of a former student of the school.
Fourth priority must be given to any applicant who is a child of a former student of the school.
Fifth priority must be given to any applicant who is either a child of an employee of the board of the school or a child of a member of the board of the school.
Sixth priority must be given to all other applicants.
Applications from out of zone students are only accepted if a school board chooses to take a number of these students. Out of zone students must be taken in the order of priority listed above. A ballot is used if there is a need to make a selection from within a priority category.
Like I said, it’s not perfect, but could this be a fairer system? Possibly tweaked here and there? -
3Boys:
The fact that there is no good solution at the moment does not mean we deny that there is a problem! In which case there will NEVER be a solution.SAHM_TAN:
[quote=\"GLORYmum\"]May I ask what is a school registration system that is fairest of them all?
All of age Singaporean kids' name put into a computer programme, computer programme randomly allocate kid to random school :rotflmao: :siam:
Alumni priority per se is not a problem, the fact that a huge proportion of admissions to popular schools is alumni priority, crowding out the others, IS a problem.[/quote]For me I don't think the problem is the registration phase. I think the problem is the textbks and resources that the schools have or not have, depending on which schools. I faint when I see the science textbks. As for STELLAR, it really depends on the trs' abilities and the child background.
All I ask is for decent textbooks and suggested references, so that if tr cannot reach out to the kid, the kid who has no access to tuition can have something to fall back on.
You think my idea is the coward's way out ? -
pirate:
This is a form of affirmative action, use at your own peril.Sun_2010:
I doubt if those who studied at Harvard or Oxford get such leeway. Learned scholars( 3B, pirate and others) in this forum please comment
I don't know about Harvard, but I know that Oxford admissions take into account the school where the applicant comes from. 20 years ago, an admissions tutor once commented, \"Oh. 4As from Hwa Chong. Big deal. Everybody from Hwa Chong gets 4As\". If there are 2 applicants of the same calibre and only one vacancy left, one comes from a brand name school and another comes from a neighbourhood school nobody has ever heard of before, the one from the school nobody has ever heard of before is much more likely to get the place than the one from the brand name school.
The problem I see is not primary school admissions. The problem I see is university and secondary school admissions in Singapore failing to take into account where the candidate comes from, pretending that 'all schools are good schools'.
I would say tweak the secondary school admission system instead of the primary school admission system. Introduce a handicap system into the secondary school admission system. Say take the national mean T-score and the school's mean T-score. Then adjust the candidate's T-score by half* the difference between the national mean T-score and the school's mean T-score.
For example, say the national mean T-score in a particular year is 220. School X's mean T-score is 250, while School Y's is 200. Student A and Student B both have raw T-scores of 270. A's adjusted T-score will be 270-(0.5*(250-220)) = 255. B's adjusted T-score will however be 270+(0.5*(220-200)) = 280.
Seriously, someone from a school with mean T-score of 200 scoring 270 is much more impressive than someone from a school with mean T-score of 250 scoring 270.
I dare say all the angst about 'branded' primary school admission and lack of diversity will go away instantly.
* this number I only pull out of the air. Can be any appropriate factor or number based on the bell-curve.
What's wrong with a far simpler act of leveling the admissions playing field? -
pirate:
Is the above still the case now? If yes, then late bloomers not in IP schools have hopeSun_2010:
I doubt if those who studied at Harvard or Oxford get such leeway. Learned scholars( 3B, pirate and others) in this forum please comment
I don't know about Harvard, but I know that Oxford admissions take into account the school where the applicant comes from. 20 years ago, an admissions tutor once commented, \"Oh. 4As from Hwa Chong. Big deal. Everybody from Hwa Chong gets 4As\". If there are 2 applicants of the same calibre and only one vacancy left, one comes from a brand name school and another comes from a neighbourhood school nobody has ever heard of before, the one from the school nobody has ever heard of before is much more likely to get the place than the one from the brand name school.
<snip> heehee
But then hor, don't need to go ivy to have hope lah -
rains:
I was just exaggerating and pretending to whine like those people who want to have their way lah[quote=\"SAHM_TAN]
You have P2A2 mah, for siblings who had studied in the school of choice, relax, no 2 rounds of madness lah. Alumni part is parents not covering siblings mah.
Phase 2A2 will not be removed for the purpose of plucking away the sour grapes ;)[/quote][/quote]
LOL you fooled me, I thought you didn't read the registration phases wor. -
3Boys:
If you believe that all schools are equally good, then I suppose there is nothing wrong with levelling the admissions playing field. Me? I don't believe that crap. So, I don't believe that the root of the problem lies with the admissions playing field.This is a form of affirmative action, use at your own peril.
What's wrong with a far simpler act of leveling the admissions playing field?
Affirmative action is usually based on race, ethnicity, sex etc. This is hardly affirmative action, it is simply not pretending that the school a child attends does not make any difference to his/her results. -
3Boys:
[/quote]
It's all about balance. If phase 2a was taking only 20% of places, I don't think people would feel so upset. Likewise SAP schools, don't overdo it, and life is fine. You a right about privileges by the way.....SAHM_TAN:
I like SAP school, as I grow older, I appreciate my culture more and regret that I didn't pursue it more. Dd1 gets to experience all the Chinese culture activities, so that I don't have to spend extra money or drag my whole brood to let her attend extra classes outside.
It warms my heart when I see her reading 第子规 without me encouraging her in any way. Whether she understand or not is another matter lah LOL.
I'm so crazy that I'm hoping she can take HCL for PSLE and not becos of the bonus pts LOL.
Maybe I can guess what's your worry. I have my worries too but fr my observations on her behaviour I'm ok. It's all about the values, once the correct values are inculcated, everything else will fall into place.
When pple are comfortable with priviledges, it does not necc mean that there's something wrong. It's human nature, easy to give but difficult to take back. Once my kids ate sweets, it's not possible to tell them that they can never eat sweets. LOL.
Cheers
It's the popularity of the schools, the more popular it is, more alumni will appear. Not so popular schools, alumni take up rate not so high, still plenty to go around though some will still be disappointed.
If parents not so worried abt the lack of quality of some schools then probably will not be so stressed. -
SAHM_TAN,
Can you share which school (A, B, C or D) you volunteered in eventually and why? I always thought that people only choose one school to do PV at. You chose four and all four accepted you!
As for why I think PV breeds elitism, I feel that people will only volunteer at schools they think are ‘good’, and not everybody has the luxury of time or expertise to do PV. So PV scheme cuts off most of the working class from phase 2B.
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