All About Choosing Piano Schools And Teachers

[Dreamaurora]

sleepy:

Dreamaurora:

for theory, specialized grade 5 theory course cost around $40-60 per hour but students may need fewer lessons as compared to cheaper standard ones.

The fees of $185 every 4 lessons is for 2 kids with a music school.
for grade 5 theory. And is an intensive course. or using your term - specialised

So I thought I use that as arbitrary cost for illustration purpose
$95 per child for every 4 lessons


By the way, my kids took 17 hours group lessons (only 2 of them in the class) to prep for grade 5 theory

Dreamaurora:

Quite hard to quantify the cost of a piano lesson actually. Have to take into consideration of quality of the teacher, curriculum, and long term progress also. So take for example NAFA, for half a year have to spend $1954, but at the end of the 20 lessons the child would have studied under more specialized teacher and completed the syllabus for grade 1.

This is why specialized teachers with good track records may actually be worth more than just your normal run-of-the-mill teachers. Sure, fee can be significantly more expensive, but the faster progress and better results may actually translate savings in the long run.

I certainly agreed with the part in red
Not so sure about higher fees equal faster pace though.

Private teacher's fees is reasonable in my opinion, considering she's also a nafa teacher and has the qualification to teach up to diploma. And I suppose dd's current progress is comparable to nafa or thereabout la, beginning to learn grade 8 now, at p3. I'm okay with that although her teacher is not very dissatisfied with her progress

I think it really depends on the child. If ready to move on to next grade, I suppose there is no reason for any credible teacher to hold child's back :scratchhead:
There are students around dd's age pursuing diploma with her teacher. So my dd is considered quite slack actually

Of course learning from a private teacher and understudying in nafa, the performance exposure is different. There is no master class with big audience. So in that sense, I have to say nafa's exposure is definitely better


Sorry, whoever reading this please do not PM me for teacher's contact. I got ticked off by her piano teacher for giving out her contact number to 2 forumers previously :nailbite:

Hmm, ok, if a teacher is not satisfied with a p3 student just taking grade 8, than I guess this reflects how grade/diploma chase has become an increasingly disturbing trend in this age that is followed by teachers.

I have to admit I am guilty as well of chasing results and grades for my students in the past. But well, I have mellowed down and have since decided not to publicize my achievements.

Not all students will be equal in capability and achievements, but I believe all students should be given equal respects as long they try their best and appreciate music, whether they take 1 year or half year to go through one grade, whether they score distinction or pass.

[sleepy]

Dreamaurora:

Hmm, ok, if a teacher is not satisfied with a p3 student just taking grade 8, than I guess this reflects how grade/diploma chase has become an increasingly disturbing trend in this age that is followed by teachers.

For illustration again
Say in a class of high ability students, individually each student may be good in their respective school but once gather them together, everyone is equally good, if not better. And any teacher teaching that class probably won't even raise an eyebrow after teaching them day in day out. It becomes no big deal to the teacher after a while, like a norm. Afterall, the comparison teacher had is only within that class.


Get my drift?
So I don't find that disturbing nor think it's representative enough to be a trend. No sweat on that la.


I feel that learning attitude is more important. As I mentioned earlier, my dd is quite slacked and relaxed in her piano practice. Teacher is merely pushing her to help her reach full potential since I am not capable of pushing.
I have zero music background & of course no idea what or where is the full potential

[Dreamaurora]

sleepy:

Dreamaurora:

Hmm, ok, if a teacher is not satisfied with a p3 student just taking grade 8, than I guess this reflects how grade/diploma chase has become an increasingly disturbing trend in this age that is followed by teachers.

For illustration again
Say in a class of high ability students, individually each student may be good in their respective school but once gather them together, everyone is equally good, if not better. And any teacher teaching that class probably won't even raise an eyebrow after teaching them day in day out. It becomes no big deal to the teacher after a while, like a norm. Afterall, the comparison teacher had is only within that class.


Get my drift?
So I don't find that disturbing nor think it's representative enough to be a trend. No sweat on that la.


I feel that learning attitude is more important. As I mentioned earlier, my dd is quite slacked and relaxed in her piano practice. Teacher is merely pushing her to help her reach full potential since I am not capable of pushing.
I have zero music background & of course no idea what or where is the full potential

Fair enough, each teacher has his/her own philosophy and I respect that, whether I agree with it or not. But personally, I do try to be sensitive to my students. Many of them do take quite some time before discovering that passion and establishing a disciplined practice routine; even 30 minutes a day is considered quite a lot by many young kids and many parents are already very pleased if they can get their kids to practice even 15 minutes a day. So, although admittedly I have errr, more than average students in my studio, I really try to avoid comparisons if I can help it.

[waiyean]

sleepy:

waiyean:

Actually on per hour basis, it is one of the cheapest I have seen.

I doubt nafa is one of the cheapest.
$73.95 per 45 mintues lesson is definitely on the high side for grade 1 in my opinion

Grade 1 in nafa
45 minutes practical & 60 minutes theory
(theory group size is big, definitely more than 10 in a group during dd2's time)
20 practical, 20 group theory S$1954.04


Arbitrary cost for theory:
I paid $185 for every 4 lessons of grade 5 theory lesson for 2 kids (don't know what's the price for grade 1) with a music school
1 hour. class size of 2.
So assume each child is $95 for 4 lessons, theory is $475 for 20 lessons


$1954 - (arbitrary cost for) theory $475 = 1479 for 20 practical lessons
nafa 1 practical lesson is $73.95 for 45 minutes

Hi sleepy,
Guess you were fortunate to have 2 kids share the cost for the theory lessons. Otherwise, if you double the cost component of theory, and the effective cost of practical lessons in NAFA goes to about $40+ per hour. Add on that NAFA fees are for 6 months, and generally teachers do have extra lessons in school holidays, plus another 3 masterclasses taught by a fabulous teacher, I would think that it is relatively low cost.

My daughter attended 2 other schools, and they cost about 50% more than NAFA.

[sleepy]

waiyean:

sleepy:

[quote=\"waiyean\"]Actually on per hour basis, it is one of the cheapest I have seen.

I doubt nafa is one of the cheapest.
$73.95 per 45 mintues lesson is definitely on the high side for grade 1 in my opinion

Grade 1 in nafa
45 minutes practical & 60 minutes theory
(theory group size is big, definitely more than 10 in a group during dd2's time)
20 practical, 20 group theory S$1954.04


Arbitrary cost for theory:
I paid $185 for every 4 lessons of grade 5 theory lesson for 2 kids (don't know what's the price for grade 1) with a music school
1 hour. class size of 2.
So assume each child is $95 for 4 lessons, theory is $475 for 20 lessons


$1954 - (arbitrary cost for) theory $475 = 1479 for 20 practical lessons
nafa 1 practical lesson is $73.95 for 45 minutes

Hi sleepy,
Guess you were fortunate to have 2 kids share the cost for the theory lessons. Otherwise, if you double the cost component of theory, and the effective cost of practical lessons in NAFA goes to about $40+ per hour. Add on that NAFA fees are for 6 months, and generally teachers do have extra lessons in school holidays, plus another 3 masterclasses taught by a fabulous teacher, I would think that it is relatively low cost.[/quote] :scratchhead: not sure I get you. Music school can start a group as long as there is min 2 students. Or individual will be 30 minutes.

By the way, I'm comparing grade 5 theory class size of 2 in a music school versus grade 1 theory class size > 10 in nafa. Hence, I've already awarded a premium to nafa for its branding in this arbitrary theory cost illustration. Otherwise nafa theory cost will be worth even less.

And there is no need to double 'the cost component of theory' otherwise we are talking about 1 to 1 theory class which is even further from the large group size in nafa, no?

Don't worry, so long parents felt that the premium being paid is justifiable and willing to pay for its branding, that is absolutely fine. Like I mention earlier, nafa is a good school because of its performance exposure

I'm merely disputing the statement that nafa is one of the cheapest.
It is clearly not, in my opinion.

waiyean:

My daughter attended 2 other schools, and they cost about 50% more than NAFA.

:yikes:


I can easily replicate nafa's standard with a private nafa teacher and a 1 to 1 theory class (definitely beats a large group) at any music school, at a lower cost but of comparable quality.

However, I can't replicate the master class and the status of being a young talent in nafa :evil: So the difference in cost is the premium and value parents perceived nafa's branding to be worth

[sleepy]

kathyh:

May I know the rate of getting your nafa teacher as private one?

Definitely not $73.95 per 45 minutes lesson la

The reason why nafa had to command this price is because of overheads - need pay principal, admin, profit margin, running cost, etc etc

[waiyean]

sleepy:

waiyean:

Hi sleepy,
Guess you were fortunate to have 2 kids share the cost for the theory lessons. Otherwise, if you double the cost component of theory, and the effective cost of practical lessons in NAFA goes to about $40+ per hour. Add on that NAFA fees are for 6 months, and generally teachers do have extra lessons in school holidays, plus another 3 masterclasses taught by a fabulous teacher, I would think that it is relatively low cost.

:scratchhead: not sure I get you. Music school can start a group as long as there is min 2 students. Or individual will be 30 minutes.

Well, what I am refering to is that, you did pay $185 for 4 lessons, not $95, hence I did not understand why you halved it in the first place, unless you had 2 kids going for that same lessons. Hence any other parent with one child would need to pay $185, right?

sleepy:

By the way, I'm comparing grade 5 theory class size of 2 in a music school versus grade 1 theory class size > 10 in nafa. Hence, I've already awarded a premium to nafa for its branding in this arbitrary theory cost illustration. Otherwise nafa theory cost will be worth even less.

Again I do not understand why the comparison is with only grade 1. NAFA charges the same practically all the grades till grade 7, with a slight increase from grade 4 to 5 due to extra 15 mins in practical lessons.

sleepy:

And there is no need to double 'the cost component of theory' otherwise we are talking about 1 to 1 theory class which is even further from the large group size in nafa, no?

I agree, there is no basis in comparison. Benefits between individual vs 2 vs 5 vs 10 in a theory class... Who knows?

I guess you may have found a cheaper way to achieve what you wanted. I never claimed that lessons in NAFA are the cheapest available. Up to a certain point, you cannot really compare the quality of music education by how much you pay, in a similar way how do you justify the premiums paid for a Steinway vs other top brands? :scratchhead:

What I was trying to say is that despite NAFA's brand name, etc. they do not really charge higher than other schools. To say they are expensive would be missing the point of the quality teaching provided, and parents out there should also note that the fees include a full package inclusive of theory and aural training which may not be found in other schools when they \"compare\" prices.

[sleepy]

waiyean:

Well, what I am refering to is that, you did pay $185 for 4 lessons, not $95, hence I did not understand why you halved it in the first place, unless you had 2 kids going for that same lessons. Hence any other parent with one child would need to pay $185, right?

Nope. 1 hour group lesson is $90 for every 4 lessons. Need min 2 to form a group. 3rd kid joining will also be paying $90
School can take up to max 4 kids in a group.
If one child & not intending to join any group, school offers the option of 1 to 1 at $90 for 30 minutes. Obvioulsy I opt for group la, both can sit in for an hour mah.

waiyean:

Benefits between individual vs 2 vs 5 vs 10 in a theory class... Who knows?

Like individual tuition vs group tuition. Hmm, who knows?
There is an entire thread devoted to this debate

Usually, in a group tuition, the center only paid one teacher to coach many kids (collect many fees), thus group tuition fees is lower than 1 to 1 tuition, isn't it? So apply that to one nafa theory teacher coaching a large group of kids

Of course that's from fees perspective only. One can argue about difference in quality. That is perceived value so that's up to parents to decide how much to pay la.

waiyean:

I never claimed that lessons in NAFA are the cheapest available.

Oh, you did mention that nafa is 'one of the cheapest'. Refer earlier page.
Hence, I'm merely offering my 2 cents (perhaps cheapskate cost breakdown :evil: ) that nafa is not one of the cheapest at $73.95 per 45 minutes lesson. I never say it is the most expensive either hor



The reasons why I did not assign theory equal value as practical:

1. large group in nafa theory class. Practical is 1 to 1. Hence practical should have higher value than theory in the cost breakdown analysis. Not just a simple division of cost by total hours (theory + practical)

2. market price comparison - what other music schools are charging? and that's for a much smaller group. So the benefit of small group size should make up for the lack of branding in those music schools.
That's why I used other music school fees as arbitrary theory cost for illustration purpose, to work backwards & derive practical fees component in nafa.

As I mentioned many times, it's an arbitrary theory cost. So a tweak in theory value (up to one to fill in own perceived theory value) will of course change the practical lessons value.


In my case, my perceived value of theory is not as high as practical. I feel that theory is no where as challenging as practical. I mentioned few pages back that my dd1 took 17 hours to prep for grade 5 theory exam. She has zero theory background, never attended any theory lesson before. Her string teacher only teaches practical.
I believe the small group size helps a great deal in this case because she has many questions and can clarify with teacher directly and quickly during lesson

Yes, one can argue that nafa theory course laid solid foundation because there's a total of 100 hours to prep for grade 5 theory exam (20 hours in each grade). Again, up to parents to decide which they prefer - fast track or steady track. No right or wrong answer here.



The above sharing is strictly my personal opinion and experience. I'm not expecting everyone to agree with me la

Oh boi, I only spent 1 minutes to work out the Maths but so lengthy to type out my logic :faint:

Never mind la, as I mentioned earlier, so long parents are satisfied And I also mentioned over and over again that nafa is a good school, didn't I?

Forumers can also make their own judgement on perceived value.
Good discussion nevertheless.

Hey, let's not dwell on this anymore

[waiyean]

sleepy:

Oh boi, I only spent 1 minutes to work out the Maths but so lengthy to type out my logic :faint:
-----
Hey, let's not dwell on this anymore

Hi, yeah thanks. Your opinion made more sense now after the lengthy explanation. Sorry to have made you type all that out :imsorry:

You have a truely gifted child to be able to do grade 5 theory from scratch in such a short time.

[Dreamaurora]

waiyean:

sleepy:

Oh boi, I only spent 1 minutes to work out the Maths but so lengthy to type out my logic :faint:
-----
Hey, let's not dwell on this anymore

Hi, yeah thanks. Your opinion made more sense now after the lengthy explanation. Sorry to have made you type all that out :imsorry:

You have a truely gifted child to be able to do grade 5 theory from scratch in such a short time.

Grade 5 theory from scratch within 16-20 hours are actually very much possible and there are teachers who are able to do this. The trick is really to treat the questions mathematically and figure out the optimal formulas and steps for the exam questions. If using traditional workbook method not really feasible.