Former SCDF and CNB chiefs arrested
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Just relax:
I agree generally to what you have said apart from the above.
What would have happened if these women had made their statements at a BOI before an experienced tribunal of a retired judge and senior counsel who by their expertise and training will be able to assess the truthfulness of the women's statements, ask the right questions and get to the truth. All this would not have required the women to spend 10+ hours at a stretch to give their CPIB statements.
On what basis have you formed your perception that the tribunal of the BOI is better in assessing the truthfulness of the statements as compared to the investigators in CPIB? The retired judge, senior counsel are definitely more familiar with the legal proceedings and the legislation due to their expertise and experience. However, in terms of detecting deceit, I would expect investigators to have a better expertise in these due to the fact that they have been carrying out investigations throughout their careers while judges and counsels merely look at the findings from these investigators.
If like what you have said is correct, then we can jolly well disband all investigation units in our law enforcement agencies. Once suspect is arrested, just send to the court and let the judges and counsels to decide their guilt or innocence. -
Just relax:
I believe getting the women to appear before the BOI is on a volunteer nature (?).
What would have happened if these women had made their statements at a BOI before an experienced tribunal of a retired judge and senior counsel who by their expertise and training will be able to assess the truthfulness of the women's statements, ask the right questions and get to the truth. All this would not have required the women to spend 10+ hours at a stretch to give their CPIB statements.
And, there is no restrictions for the men/women to contact/meetup each other before/during/after the BOI? At least not bounded by the law.
Sure, can have BOI first.. beat all the grass and put the snakes into battle station ready mode.....
With sufficient planning, all the testimonials can be cooked to fit flawlessly making prosecute difficult if not impossible.. BEFORE a trial? -
Just relax:
Just to add on to this.
Both in law prof. case and NBG case the women involved clearly had relationships with the men yet appeared to have made statements to the CPIB that caused the element of corruption to surface. Both women testified that they spent many hours at the CPIB when making their statements. And both women claimed that the statements made did not clearly reflect what happened.
When the men and the women declared to be in a relationship and hence definitely not a corruption case is a slippery road that we would not want to take here. Just imagine that if we make this a precedence, all those in power, who are in no need to be offered money to bribe them, can use sex instead. When caught, both parties will just claim that they are deeply in love and then the judge will acquit them. This will have serious implication.
For NBG and Prof Tey, though they both claim to be in sexual relationship, but there is still a significant difference in when the relationship was started.
For NBG and CS, they knew each other and got into sexual relationship way before CS' company became the sub-contractor to a project which NBG signed off, but not initiated, after he took over the helm at CNB. Meaning, it is highly impossible for both NBG or CS to have such foresight that CS bribe him with sex such that in the future, NBG will be able to sign off a project that was initiated by his predecessor.
For Prof Tey and DK, they knew each other and got into sexual relationship when they were both teaching and studying in NUS Law faculty. There is thus a higher chance that DK had offered herself in exchange for better grades as Prof Tey, regardless he did it or not, does have a say in her grades.
Based on the above, I am still of the view that NBG is probably not corrupted but Prof Tey probably is. -
limlim:
This is a fair point too.
I believe getting the women to appear before the BOI is on a volunteer nature (?).
And, there is no restrictions for the men/women to contact/meetup each other before/during/after the BOI? At least not bounded by the law.
Sure, can have BOI first.. beat all the grass and put the snakes into battle station ready mode.....
With sufficient planning, all the testimonials can be cooked to fit flawlessly making prosecute difficult if not impossible.. BEFORE a trial?
So I guess fundamentally, there is nothing wrong with our procedures but just that those in the system must do their job well.
CPIB should investigate the case, not in view of prosecution, but merely just to find out the facts. If the statements and evidence suggest strongly that they are merely in a relationship and not so much a corruption case, they should put up their findings objectively and make the right recommendation to the AGC.
AGC should then scrutinize their findings and give appropriate guidance and advice to aid in the investigation. If they find that CPIB has done their job well and convince that benefit of doubt should be given to NBG, they should then agree to CPIB and not to proceed with court proceeding but revert back to the home agency for appropriate disciplinary action.
I have not privy to what has transpired during this case that ended up with NBG being charged. Could it be CPIB is over-zealous to prove NBG is guilty and hence lost the objectivity? Or could it be what I have said previously that they lack the moral courage to take a stand and take the easy way out by recommending to charge so as to leave it to the judge to decide? AGC in this case, can only based on the investigative findings and hence I believe they probably go along with CPIB's recommendation. -
Ex-SCDF chief Peter Lim dismissed from civil service
Ex-Singapore Civil Defence Force (SCDF) chief Peter Lim, 52, has been dismissed from the civil service, said the Ministry of Home Affairs (MHA) on Saturday.
The Straits Times reported that the Public Service Commission made the decision following the conclusion of civil service disciplinary proceedings against Lim.
Earlier in May, Lim was convicted of corruptly obtaining sex from a 49-year-old woman whose engineering company had later bid for a contract from his agency.
He also pleaded guilty to a further seven charges involving two other women who were both working for companies that sold technology to SCDF.
He is now serving a six-month jail term, which commenced in June. -
Personally am keenly anticipating what will happen to NBG… he got away scot free from the corruption trial. Wonder what the civil service will do to him…
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kevkevkaf:
Personally am keenly anticipating what will happen to NBG... he got away scot free from the corruption trial. Wonder what the civil service will do to him..
Ask to leave the Police Force. -
AC_Power:
NBG really that innocent?kevkevkaf:
Personally am keenly anticipating what will happen to NBG... he got away scot free from the corruption trial. Wonder what the civil service will do to him..
Ask to leave the Police Force. -
janet_lee88:
NBG really that innocent?[/quote]In the eye of the law, everyone is innocent unless proven guilty. In this case, since NBG is not found guilty, he has to be deemed innocent.AC_Power:
[quote=\"kevkevkaf\"]Personally am keenly anticipating what will happen to NBG... he got away scot free from the corruption trial. Wonder what the civil service will do to him..
Ask to leave the Police Force.
My stand on this case from the onset, has been the same. He is guilty of misconduct and being unfaithful to his wonderful wife. However, to say that he is corrupted and obtaining sexual gratification from CS, is kind of far fetch.
How are you going to prove that the 4 oral sex are gratifications that NBG received for him to provide privilege information to CS? They are already in an EMA and you can't delink this to prove your corruption case.
He is still answerable to the internal disciplinary board and I believe he will be asked to leave the Police Force. -
I guess he was no legally corrupt but morally flawed. Laws can only be used to indict someone for breaking the law and cannot be used to fault people for their failing moral compass.
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